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[CVOJOE]

A hog-riding former lawmaker from Wisconsin claims that Harley-Davidson voided his motorcycle's repair warranty because of the patriotic flags he let fly from the back of his chopper.

However, Harley-Davidson says the warranty is still in effect and just his warranty claim has been denied.










David Zien, who served in the State Senate from 1993 to 2006, said he was told by the motorcycle behemoth it would not honor the warranty after the clutch and transmission failed on a recent ride to Dallas, claiming that that the American flag-- as well as other banners-- caused unneeded wind resistance, according to the Journal Sentinel of Milwaukee.

“All they said was, because I fly flags on the bike, there’s no warranty on the powertrain,” Zien told the newspaper.

Harley-Davidson told the paper Zien’s warranty is still valid, but the claim he filed had to be denied because the bike was not made to handle wind resistance from multiple flags at highway speeds.

“The issue isn’t that the flags are heavy,” Harley spokeswoman Maripat Blankenheim told the Journal-Sentinel, “but they provide terrific drag on the engine and the transmission, especially when the bike is at highway speeds.”

She added that the flag mounts that Zien used were not Harley products.

“When you alter a motorcycle with non-compliant products, that does impact your ability to make a warranty claim," she said.

Zien is an avid biker who has been riding since the 1970s and has always done so with multiple flags on his bike. His 1991 Harley is on display at the Sturgis Motorcycle Museum and Hall of Fame in South Dakota.

He currently has seven flags flying from his bike including the Stars and Stripes as well as an NRA flag.

“Ain’t nobody gonna stop our flags, not even Harley-Davidson corporate,” Zien told the paper.

[Robmay]

Doesn't Harley sell accessories that mount on your trunk to allow for flags?

[Fired00d]

Doesn't Harley sell accessories that mount on your trunk to allow for flags?

The flags he fly aren't the normal ones you would expect attached to saddlebags/tourpaks... below is a picture found on the internet of David on his former bike...

Not that I agree w/MoCo but can see where they would deny/void the warranty such as they deny/void the warranty when bikes are flagged for pulling trailers.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[skratch]

not to mention that he is flying 7 flags

[chicoman]

not to mention that he is flying 7 flags

If my bike cant handle going down the road with some flags on it, its time to get something with a little better quality and sturdier parts.
HD is becoming very sad.

[BigLew]

If my bike cant handle going down the road with some flags on it, its time to get something with a little better quality and sturdier parts.
HD is becoming very sad.

X2

[skratch]

If my bike cant handle going down the road with some flags on it, its time to get something with a little better quality and sturdier parts.
HD is becoming very sad.

before you slam hd, you should figure out all the wind resistance and drag associated with 7 flags and see if honda/indian/victory would be able to withstand all that extra drag too.

not to mention that he burnt up the clutch.  the clutch is normally a wear item and not a warranty item, unless it is clearly a manufacturing defect, which this obviously was not.....

[MrSurly]

The guy is uber famous for many things, especially for putting a million miles on a '91 FXRT.
That bike is now in the Museum in Sturgis. When presented to the museum Harley GAVE Zien a new 2009 Roadie.
He used the roadie to bag a large deer.

In 2011, he survived an horrific crash but lost a leg and the Road Glide. After that came the trikes. Apparently, the bike being repaired now is a newer Tri-Glide.

[moscooter]

 

This topic has exploded on other Harley forums,  not sure it has made it here before this post.

This guy has put a kazillion miles on his Harley in the past and you can "google" him to see the whole story.  Meanwhile, he now cannot get warranty coverage cause his multiple flags are more than the Harley drive train can seem to handle.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/22/biker-claims-old-glory-wind-resistance/

[LC110]

I have ridden with Dave and have know him for 25 years.  I am sure this will all get politicized the way he wants it.

[grc]

This topic has exploded on other Harley forums,  not sure it has made it here before this post.

This guy has put a kazillion miles on his Harley in the past and you can "google" him to see the whole story.  Meanwhile, he now cannot get warranty coverage cause his multiple flags are more than the Harley drive train can seem to handle.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/22/biker-claims-old-glory-wind-resistance/

Yup, it's funny how his old Harleys didn't seem to have a big problem running down the highway flying several very large flags, but his new Harley couldn't handle it.  You don't suppose it has anything to do with the extensive cheapening of the product under the latest management team do you?  And of course we have all seen evidence of the clutch slippage issues on stock late model CVO's, especially with the latest A&S clutch (should be renamed the Slip & More Slip clutch).

Once again, while Harley may be technically within their rights to refuse coverage, they have really just shown how cheap and petty they have become under current management.  I assume they will next try to refuse coverage if people ride into severe headwinds.

Jerry

[Para Bellum]

This is HD looking for any excuse to void a warranty claim, just like they are doing now with ESP.  HD's argument is so weak, the spokesperson even tried to blame non-HD flag mounts--as if HD mounts would have less wind resistance (WR).   

I don't GAS if the flags cause extra WR.  I guarantee there's a lot more WR caused by a non-flagged Tri-Glides' windshield, fairing upper and lowers, and rear fenders when riding directly into a 30 mph head wind at 70 mph, than there is by his TG with the flags on it.

Far more likely is that HD's weak-azz clutch and inner primary bearing was worn out from all the miles he puts on, but HD chose to make the warranty *unlimited* mileage in 2 years, knowing that 99.9% won't put that many miles on.

I'm going to call customer care and express my disgust.  If HD gets away with this, we'll soon find them denying claims caused by bad lifters because we're using an aftermarket windshield--too much resistance, you see. 

[ultrafxr]

Guess we will all have to pass a physical to prove we don't weigh over the load capacity of the bike. Guarantee I've seen some two-ups that created way more resistance than all the flags he could fly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skratch]

I guarantee there's a lot more WR caused by a non-flagged Tri-Glides' windshield, fairing upper and lowers, and rear fenders when riding directly into a 30 mph head wind at 70 mph, than there is by his TG with the flags on it.

you would have to prove it to me.  i know someone who rides a bike with 1 (one) flag.  he rode with it unfurled and said that at 30mph it was almost like riding a bull.  did it for a 5 mile escort and said he would never do that again.  this guy has 7 flags.  that's got to be rough.  probably can only do it cause he's on a trike and not 2 wheels.

a windshield is somewhat aerodynamic, a parachute is not.

[MrSurly]

that's got to be rough.  probably can only do it cause he's on a trike and not 2 wheels.

a windshield is somewhat aerodynamic, a parachute is not.

I do believe you did some skimming,
...

Look at post #7

The guy has been doing it for thirty years. For well over a million miles. Read his history, no further proof should be needed.

[skratch]

I do believe you did some skimming,
...

Look at post #7

The guy has been doing it for thirty years. For well over a million miles. Read his history, no further proof should be needed.

no, he hasn't been running the full 7 flags for 30 years.  look at the older pics, show 2 or 3 flags.  i'm thinking he added more flags as he added more wheels.

[LC110]

Until Dave started ridding the trike he always rode with 2 flags. "American Flag, "Don't Tread On Me"
Used to have a smaller Wisconsin flag he ran with when he was State Senator.
Any long range highway runs where a group was not involved he would roll up the flags, Unless he was riding local than the flags were always out. They were not always full size flags.. He would go through several flags in a years time. Dave always has rode hard and is know to be tuff on his equipment.

[16HD117]

Harley strikes again!

Can't believe HD wouldn't warranty this guys clutch because of flags.  This guy has logged over 2.5 million miles.  Wonder how much Harley has made off Mr. Zein?  Makes no sense.
 

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/biker-claims-harley-davidson-voided-warranty-for-riding-with-flags-204723398.html

[MrSurly]

Harley strikes again!
snip~ 2.5 million miles.  Wonder how much Harley has made off Mr. Zein? ~snip

One argument seems to be that they shouldn't treat him 'special' as that wouldn't be fair to other warranty claimants.
I totally disagree with this. I understand that they should NOT PUBLICIZE it, but they SHOULD have just fixed it and shut up. I mean...how the heck are future rejected warranty claimants going to KNOW if HD ever warranted a clutch on a bike that had flags on it?
Here's the part that 'puts me hot': How did HARLEY (Corporate) even LEARN that the clutch being serviced...was on a bike that had flags? Did the dealer rat him out to corporate? If so, WHY? Is there a reward program?
Why would the dealer care, as long as the factory would pay them?
Did corporate recognize his name, recall his m-o and then call the dealer to see if there were flags?
Now THAT would be an ironic twist and real special treatment, eh?
There is a lot I don't know about how the dealer deals with corporate on warranty claims.
Does the dealer have an incentive to reject warranty claims?
What is the dealer's skin in this game?

[skratch]

Harley strikes again!

Can't believe HD wouldn't warranty this guys clutch because of flags.  This guy has logged over 2.5 million miles.  Wonder how much Harley has made off Mr. Zein?  Makes no sense.
 

as it appears that he keeps his bikes for much longer than the average rider, i would say that hd makes less off of him than your average customer..... 

[grc]

Just a note for those who may not know this, but the clutch in a 2014 Trike is the same wonderful Assist & Slip clutch that Harley installed in all the 2013 Touring CVO's.  You know, the one that so many people have had slipping problems with, and the one certain member shops have replaced by the boat load to eliminate slippage on dyno runs.  Perhaps that might explain why he didn't have the problem on his previous bike but immediately had a problem with this one, don't you think?

I smell a bit of the traditional Harley head in the sand treatment.  You know, the one where they make a change or come out with a new major component like an engine, customers start having problems immediately, the dealers all tell the customers they've never seen or heard of the problem, the H-D Customer Disservice folks tell customers the same thing, then they tell customers it must be something they did, and only after the problem becomes widely known across the internet do they finally announce an "Upgrade Program" out of the goodness of their hearts to "upgrade" the defective crap.  Those who owned 2007/2008 CVO110's know exactly what I'm saying.  I'm thinking the issues with this slipper clutch are being handled the same way, and obviously they are up to the stage where they just blame the customer when the POS fails.

Jerry

[JCZ]

You make a point Jerry.  Reminds me of the peeling chrome issues on the 04/05 SEEGs.  Dealerships and the MoCo were claiming they hadn't heard of the problem and it must be what everybody was washing their bikes with or lives to close to the ocean or the gulf, etc. etc.

Anything to deny warranty claims keeps the record profits train running up the track.

[HD Jim]

I road with flags on a '97 1200 Sportster with no clutch issues.

[FLHTCUSE7]

HD made the right decision. How many of you experts manufacture OEM equipment and have an intelligent / experienced opinion on the warranty issue and how many are just emotional?

Ther are so many experts.......

[grc]

HD made the right decision. How many of you experts manufacture OEM equipment and have an intelligent / experienced opinion on the warranty issue and how many are just emotional?

Ther are so many experts.......

I've stated my qualifications before, but I'll do it again if you like.  How about yours?

Jerry

[SBB]

I've stated my qualifications before, but I'll do it again if you like.  How about yours?

Jerry

I'm with you Jerry.
From what I read from him I'd like to know that also!

SBB

[110tHunDer]

 
I'll take the opinion of someone who can spell (or at least operate a spell-checker) over someone who can't, any day.

[charles05663]

Guess we will all have to pass a physical to prove we don't weigh over the load capacity of the bike. Guarantee I've seen some two-ups that created way more resistance than all the flags he could fly.

It it the prostate part of the exam that I don't like.  HD always seems to find doctors with really big fingers.

Anyway, it seems that it would have been better for HD to have just done the warranty work then having all of the bad PR that this has generated among Harley riders.  It also shows that they don't stand behind their products.

 

[FLHTCUSE7]

So Grc and SBB what would you like to know?

Spelling sucks because I lived in many countries the last 50 years and speak a few languages so and so. How many languages do you speak and write? I believe I am up to five at the moment I am sure you are able to do more than that judging from you comments.

I did not know it was a prerequisite to post here to post your CV (resume for the locals) but it seems I hurt somebody's feelings, or?

I'm with you Jerry.
From what I read from him I'd like to know that also!

SBB

[SBB]

So Grc and SBB what would you like to know?

Spelling sucks because I lived in many countries the last 50 years and speak a few languages so and so. How many languages do you speak and write? I believe I am up to five at the moment I am sure you are able to do more than that judging from you comments.

Rotarywing what I asked and Jerry asked was a question about your qualifications to make the statements you make about manufacturing?
Your response was that you speak five languages and I'm just not sure how that answers that question.
Here is the original quote asking that question.

I've stated my qualifications before, but I'll do it again if you like.  How about yours?

Jerry

As a longtime member Jerry has stated his qualification numerous times on the site. Your post reflect that you may have some manufacturing experience and we were wondering what that was. I always enjoy reading post from knowledgeable and experienced members. Didn't mean to offend you but it seemed a simple enough question.

SBB

[1sharprdkg]

I've stated my qualifications before, but I'll do it again if you like.  How about yours?

Jerry

I agree Jerry!
Biggest load of BS Harley crap I have ever heard!!!

[FLHTCUSE7]

Fair enough, looks like I overreacted, so here is a serious answers. (The language part was in response to my chitty spelling)

Well I have "some" experience.

- 30 years of industrial manufacturing
- manufacturing systems Expert (have implemented and hands on run operations) on Toyota Production System. (Same system different name at GM and other automotive guys)
- have held titles from operations manager to my current which is President for a large part of a Fortune 500 corporation.
- started out as an application engineer
- degree in nuclear power (well power generation)

And very opinionated on manufacturing topics 

Sorry for sounding like an ass

Rotarywing what I asked and Jerry asked was a question about your qualifications to make the statements you make about manufacturing?
Your response was that you speak five languages and I'm just not sure how that answers that question.
Here is the original quote asking that question.

As a longtime member Jerry has stated his qualification numerous times on the site. Your post reflect that you may have some manufacturing experience and we were wondering what that was. I always enjoy reading post from knowledgeable and experienced members. Didn't mean to offend you but it seemed a simple enough question.

SBB