Topic: Stock 110 RPM Limit (Read 13516 times)

bakon · « **on:** May 06, 2015, 12:35:19 PM »

Guess I should say stage 1, 110 CVO rev limit?

Vance and Hines Headpipes and a SE Super Tuner Pro download.....checked the TUNING SET UP and found rpm limit set at 5900 for 617SEP204-01, which is just the Stage 1 tune for 110 motor.
I remember Stage 1 on the old 88 raised rpm limit to 6200 from 5900.

SO I play for a minute with bike and two tunes, just changing rpm limit to 6200...I start bike and check the results with live data and displaying rpm as a meter for more accurate reading... and at 5900 rpm limit I only get 5500 rpm out of bike, which is right at redline on the tach. Change up to 6200 on tune, upload, run bike and I get 5900 rpm out of bike and slightly into the redline area of tach...

Anyone see this, know why or think the 110 shouldn't rev to the old 88 or 95 stage 1 limit?
Set bike back to 5900 for now...

mike jesse · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2015, 01:55:01 PM »

So....what are you trying to accomplish?

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2015, 01:57:42 PM »

Rpm limit is dictated verse and scripture, by the engines "ability" to do so.
Scott

Dr.D · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:02:14 PM »

I thought in general larger pistons need less rpm and safety is decreased if you try to over rev. It would need a different cam than the 255 to even make sense to rev that high.

Mike Jesse's question is the right one to ask.

zigscvobo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:46:09 PM »

You will never be there.

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2015, 04:05:16 PM »

And as already mentioned, the school-bus cam won't take you anywhere near the engine's factory redline.
Scott

bakon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2015, 10:32:16 PM »

Ok if the cam is the limiting item...why doesn't both settings (5900 & 6200) at least get 5900? One only gets to 5500. I have been able to hit limiter at 5900 or 6200 on stock bikes.

The point of the exercise was to raise the rev limit to 6200 and not bang the rev limiter in lower gears (1, 2 or 3) as early. Not racing on track, but got to pound on the buddies with this big bagger. If I hit limiter at 5500, when I might shift at 5700, there is a one or two second pause in action where the 88 or 95 could be creeping by still in power (although not at top of torque its still moving somewhere instead of pulsing on the limiter.) Idea is not hit limiter at all, but it happens when over doing it. Yes a shift would be better, but that's only when the whole brain is turned on and the smile isn't blocking half of it from working...

Now ask how often I hit the limiter, never on this one yet, breaking it in. On 95 HTCC CNC build with Woods 408 g cam, a lot. On 103 with 57H cam, sometimes.

Phantom309 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2015, 02:33:53 AM »

No offense, but there's no reason to rev these things to the moon ... they're not crotch rockets and don't make anymore power up that high without some major mods. The canned map from my FP3 had mine set at 6200 so I lowered it to 5500, I see no reason to ever turn mine that fast with just exhaust. I want my engine to live a long healthy life. If I ever get the itch to rev any higher I have an old GS 1100 I can turn to 9000 and not worry.

Dr.D · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2015, 11:39:30 AM »

Quote from: bakon on May 06, 2015, 10:32:16 PM

If I hit limiter at 5500, when I might shift at 5700, there is a one or two second pause in action where the 88 or 95 could be creeping by still in power (although not at top of torque its still moving somewhere instead of pulsing on the limiter.) Idea is not hit limiter at all, but it happens when over doing it.

I can understand this as a valid reason. I hate hitting the limiter for two reasons, 1 it sounds bad and 2 you loose to much momentum. Yes should have shifted but torque fall off is better than the total cut off of the limiter. Also it is bakon's bike if he wants to rev it to the moon then that should be his choice even if it is pointless to most of us or even damaging to his equipment. it is all about choice.

I do not have the answers to your questions sorry, just support for your right to ask them.

RonandJanet · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2015, 02:01:11 PM »

Quote from: Dr.D on May 07, 2015, 11:39:30 AM

I can understand this as a valid reason. I hate hitting the limiter for two reasons, 1 it sounds bad and 2 you loose to much momentum. Yes should have shifted but torque fall off is better than the total cut off of the limiter. Also it is bakon's bike if he wants to rev it to the moon then that should be his choice even if it is pointless to most of us or even damaging to his equipment. it is all about choice.

I do not have the answers to your questions sorry, just support for your right to ask them.

I agree - I don't like it either.

bakon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2015, 03:44:41 PM »

I know there would be someone tell me how I am hurting it, or should have shifted earlier...its the nature of forums where opinions usually outnumber actual knowledge. Not saying anyone doesn't know what they are saying...I am saying nobody can tell me why the bike shuts off before the rev limit programmed into it...

I agree there is no reason to rev that high on a couch with wheels, also agree cam is not in power at those numbers, but a stock cam can hit the rev limiter, why cant this one or is there another piece of logic in there somewhere which overrides the programmed number?

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2015, 05:56:12 PM »

Steve Cole would be the one to answer the question, he's in the TTS Support section here

mike jesse · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2015, 03:27:33 AM »

A quality valve spring might help you get to your goal. maybe yours are tired and will not allow the engine to rev higher.

bakon · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2015, 04:51:54 PM »

doubt it...two reasons, bike has 900 miles and worn springs would be weaker, thus reving easier...
unless you believe a worn spring is holding open longer and bleeding off compression?

my opinion, and only that, there is a programming in there which only allows the rev limit at certain speed per gear???siting in garage in neutral the ecm would let it get within 200 rpm of set limit, two settings with same result, got to be programming and sensors...

Dan_Lockwood · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2015, 05:23:28 PM »

Quote from: bakon on May 08, 2015, 04:51:54 PM

siting in garage in neutral the ecm would let it get within 200 rpm of set limit, two settings with same result, got to be programming and sensors...

Am I to understand that in the garage, motor running, in neutral, you're free revving the motor to see if you can hit the rev limiter?

I hope that's not what I get from your comment, I must have read it wrong.

fastfreddy · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2015, 07:07:37 PM »

Quote from: Dan_Lockwood on May 08, 2015, 05:23:28 PM

Am I to understand that in the garage, motor running, in neutral, you're free revving the motor to see if you can hit the rev limiter?

I hope that's not what I get from your comment, I must have read it wrong.

yup, you read it correctly,

mike jesse · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2015, 03:21:43 AM »

Quote from: bakon on May 08, 2015, 04:51:54 PM

doubt it...two reasons, bike has 900 miles and worn springs would be weaker, thus reving easier...
unless you believe a worn spring is holding open longer and bleeding off compression?

my opinion, and only that, there is a programming in there which only allows the rev limit at certain speed per gear???siting in garage in neutral the ecm would let it get within 200 rpm of set limit, two settings with same result, got to be programming and sensors...

You have no clue as to what your doing right?

HILLSIDECYCLE.COM · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2015, 05:31:09 AM »

I'm outta' here..........
Scott

grc · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2015, 08:24:12 AM »

Quote from: mike jesse on May 09, 2015, 03:21:43 AM

You have no clue as to what your doing right?

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. I had actually typed up a post a couple days ago asking if he was just free revving it in the garage, because his first post kind of made it sound that way, but then I decided not to post it because I figured I just misread something, as no one would sit in their garage and just free rev the engine testing the rev limiter setting. After his last post, it turns out I didn't misread anything.

Jerry

smkymtnboy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:12:50 AM »

Quote from: grc on May 09, 2015, 08:24:12 AM

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. I had actually typed up a post a couple days ago asking if he was just free revving it in the garage, because his first post kind of made it sound that way, but then I decided not to post it because I figured I just misread something, as no one would sit in their garage and just free rev the engine testing the rev limiter setting. After his last post, it turns out I didn't misread anything.

Jerry

what is the warranty folks say about something of this nature, jer? I assume it is under warranty!

HD Street Performance · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:36:25 AM »

I know there would be someone tell me how I am hurting it, or should have shifted earlier...its the nature of forums where opinions usually outnumber actual knowledge. Not saying anyone doesn't know what they are saying...I am saying nobody can tell me why the bike shuts off before the rev limit programmed into it...

FYI there are some shape dudes on this site that "get it". They may not have the answer you want to hear but it will be based on knowledge and experience.
FWIW your buddies are going to pound you worse if you waste time operating the motor in areas where the power and torque have diminished. That same time would have been more productively spent shifting up earlier. More motive force is accomplished. If you want to utilize a higher redline and win the race you will need more HP and a strong curve after the rpm drop at the shift points.

twinotter · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:09:52 PM »

Pretty much a waste to convince a marble it rolling the wrong way!! Buffalo

bakon · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2015, 03:14:57 PM »

and sitting in garage reving up to limit for a few seconds is worse in what way? You smart marbles can maybe clue me in? because under load it will rev higher, because reving while doing 40 + mph in first gear would be better because....?

Again thank for pointing out its past its power point...still nobody can tell me why the limit is actually lower than number programmed...

someone please respond with "these aren't race bikes" again...

hawgzilla · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2015, 07:05:05 PM »

Wow. Unbelievable!!!

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2015, 02:02:57 PM »

Quote from: bakon on May 10, 2015, 03:14:57 PM

and sitting in garage reving up to limit for a few seconds is worse in what way? You smart marbles can maybe clue me in? because under load it will rev higher, because reving while doing 40 + mph in first gear would be better because....?

Again thank for pointing out its past its power point...still nobody can tell me why the limit is actually lower than number programmed...

someone please respond with "these aren't race bikes" again...

And now we see what Harley Dealers have to put up with...

bakon · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2015, 02:31:09 PM »

Not trying to be rude, seriously, you haven't given a reason. Race engines and rebuilt street engines are run to limit in garage or stand all day long. But that is really off topic, the point of post was is there another item, sensor or program which would limit the rpm lower than the ecm is programmed for?

fastfreddy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2015, 03:46:39 PM »

Can you post a video of the event maybe that will help us to understand

FlaHeatWave · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2015, 05:08:47 PM »

Quote from: bakon on May 11, 2015, 02:31:09 PM

Not trying to be rude, seriously, you haven't given a reason. Race engines and rebuilt street engines are run to limit in garage or stand all day long. But that is really off topic, the point of post was is there another item, sensor or program which would limit the rpm lower than the ecm is programmed for?

You're right, since the ECM is not getting info from the Speed Sensor(bike stationary) you might try holding the throttle open longer and see if the ECM "catches up" and allows the engine to rev more...

As fastfreddy posted, a video could be helpful.

MLCRISIS · « **Reply #28 on:** May 11, 2015, 05:55:26 PM »

This is a little off topic, I had a 2005 caddy CTS that would only go to about 3500 rpm while stationary and in neutral, in gear and under way it was a different story. Always assumed it was GM's way of protecting the thing from my dumb ass.

lowflight · « **Reply #29 on:** May 11, 2015, 08:36:25 PM »

I can not answer the question, but really just how people see if they can hit the rev limit sitting still?

I know my truck has a limiter on it, first time I went to get an emission test the tester tells me to just floor it while sitting static. My response is FU, no way.... Long and short of it, it holds the RPM right at 3 grand, under a load it surpasses that. Guess I could get some good hole shots with it, same with the bike in question....Hang On~

icy · « **Reply #30 on:** May 11, 2015, 10:14:18 PM »

Free revving any engine is a good way to knock the top of the cam lobes off not to mention various other things that can go wrong. By free revving any motor there is no load and the motor is spinning up much faster than the tach can keep up with, meaning it could very possibly be higher than the setpoint. The computer sees this and cuts off spark although the tach is still several hundred rpm behind.

snowrider13 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:00:24 PM »

Hold it open longer, with video please!

donvito · « **Reply #32 on:** May 12, 2015, 11:08:17 PM »

Yes I agree, and do the video so we can slow it down and watch the parts flying off the motor when it grenades. ROFLMAO

bakon · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2015, 07:31:33 AM »

For what its worth...hits rev limit in second and third gears or at least comes closer but only have tach to measure. Guess to be speed sensor limited or as pointed out , it was all to fast to read with tach and sertp. Don't think anything needed to be caught up, with ecm because SERTP was hooked up and two different displays were reading the rpm. Wasn't using tach other than to notice the redline was at 5500. As for shifting and where power comes on...that's idea but ...I started the thread by saying the rev limiter only gets hit by accident, but does get hit on my bikes. I will have to glue the parts back on that fell off after returning from Myrtle Beach Bike week. Just ran it 650 miles down here after the dangerous 4 second reving in the garage.

Or maybe its the synthetic oil?

Author Topic: Stock 110 RPM Limit (Read 13516 times)