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[fastfreddy]

 best wishes on the new mystery motor 

[Twolanerider]

Thanks, maybe someone can interpret the stampings. My dealer said it was a 2019 based on the code but he could have been mistaken.

Engine code lower ride side after the HD logo: 1941803116
Engine case part # : 13708454 (stamped twice, once on each half case)

If anyone can decipher these engine codes, post it up.

The part number for the black granite cases in both 2017 and 2017 was 24400187 (same part number for each case half sold as a pair).  When HD began moving away from the year suffixed part numbers a few years ago they have migrated to 8 digit part numbers (with the exception of some hardware and bearings). 

13708454 is 8 digits so might be a part number.  It doesn't come up on any site one can normally search by part numbers though.  So it's either new enough to be as yet uncatalogued in the search engines I was using or it's not a part number.  No way to know with the information easily available.   Will keep my finger crossed it's a brand new part number for a revised case that corrects what has been causing your issues.

The 1941803116 number isn't in their part number format/nomenclature so doubtful it's a part number at all.  Other options could be casting or tooling numbers.  Unfortunately the only thing we really know is that we don't know.

When the 2019 models are released and the parts breakdowns start showing up in online search tools the first thing curiosity will make me do is look to see if the new bikes have different part numbers for the engine cases.  My personal concern as to the cause of the sumping issues would require a machining change in the cases to correct.  The part numbers could be a tell-tale as to if there's been a change.

[iski]

Reading that gave me a headache.

 

[Twolanerider]

Reading that gave me a headache.

 

That means you're pregnant.

[djkak]

Thanks, maybe someone can interpret the stampings. My dealer said it was a 2019 based on the code but he could have been mistaken.

Engine code lower ride side after the HD logo: 1941803116
Engine case part # : 13708454 (stamped twice, once on each half case)

If anyone can decipher these engine codes, post it up.

I believe at one time, and maybe still, the “belly” number on the crankcase identified the engine, the sequential day of the calendar or model year of manufacture, and the sequential number units manufactured that day.

[djkak]

Something to consider:
A mechanical issue that results in foreign material moving through a gerotor style scavenge pump will almost always damage the gerotors, stopping the return of oil to the reservoir and causing the crankcase to fill with oil. In cases like this the pump damage and “sumping” is a symptom of an unrelated issue or malfunction somewhere else.

[iski]

That means you're pregnant.

If I was, & if those numbers stamped on those cases indicate that, it would be to deliver a barrel of beer.   

[Heatwave]

The part number for the black granite cases in both 2017 and 2017 was 24400187 (same part number for each case half sold as a pair).  When HD began moving away from the year suffixed part numbers a few years ago they have migrated to 8 digit part numbers (with the exception of some hardware and bearings). 

13708454 is 8 digits so might be a part number.  It doesn't come up on any site one can normally search by part numbers though.  So it's either new enough to be as yet uncatalogued in the search engines I was using or it's not a part number.  No way to know with the information easily available.   Will keep my finger crossed it's a brand new part number for a revised case that corrects what has been causing your issues.

The 1941803116 number isn't in their part number format/nomenclature so doubtful it's a part number at all.  Other options could be casting or tooling numbers.  Unfortunately the only thing we really know is that we don't know.

When the 2019 models are released and the parts breakdowns start showing up in online search tools the first thing curiosity will make me do is look to see if the new bikes have different part numbers for the engine cases.  My personal concern as to the cause of the sumping issues would require a machining change in the cases to correct.  The part numbers could be a tell-tale as to if there's been a change.

If it helps, here’s a pic of the product codes on the bottom of each half of the new engine cases.

[Heatwave]

And here’s a pic of the code # on the lower right side of my engine as viewed from below on right side. Neither of the sequence of numbers have any correlation to the bike’s VIN.

As a further update I have almost 600 miles on this new engine. Whatever they did to the internals of this engine resulted in a complete transformation. I was in 94 degrees with high humidity today, stuck in stop & go traffic for miles, followed by highway then backroads that i was able to run the bike exactly the way I ride. It was flawless never a hiccup. I could run as hard as I wanted even in brutal heat and the bike just ripped. 300 mile interstate ride home tomorrow. If this engine is flawless on the ride home tomorrow, I’ll state with 99% confidence that HD not only solved the sumping issue but built one of, if not the best factory engine when they built this 117 Stage IV engine.

More time will tell but my confidence is growing with every mile. What a pleasure to ride this bike again.

[SDCVO]

Heatwave, hopefully you were just assuming those cases were 19 model year and the dealer or rep didn't tell you that. Jerry is correct that year designation is by letter and not numbers and it would be a huge infraction for the manufacturer to release a vehicle identifying stamped piece with incorrect model year. If they did tell you that and use the beginning of the stamped number that starts in 19 as proof your should immediately contact Moco.
With all that said great news bike is so far so good! keep us posted

[Heatwave]

Heatwave, hopefully you were just assuming those cases were 19 model year and the dealer or rep didn't tell you that. Jerry is correct that year designation is by letter and not numbers and it would be a huge infraction for the manufacturer to release a vehicle identifying stamped piece with incorrect model year. If they did tell you that and use the beginning of the stamped number that starts in 19 as proof your should immediately contact Moco.
With all that said great news bike is so far so good! keep us posted

On what do you make this statement? Not doubting you but we have no idea what regulatory exceptions or approvals the MoCo might have received to address a systemic design issue they might have identified in their latest engine design (assuming there engine design has actually changed).

Call it whatever year you want, if the part #s have changed from the same parts in 2017 and 2018 and are the same part #s as those released in 2019, well then.... you decide what year engine it is.

[TN]

Heatwave, I hope they got it right for you this time. Was any information given out to the difference in the new cases?


TN

[Twolanerider]

On what do you make this statement? Not doubting you but we have no idea what regulatory exceptions or approvals the MoCo might have received to address a systemic design issue they might have identified in their latest engine design (assuming there engine design has actually changed).

Call it whatever year you want, if the part #s have changed from the same parts in 2017 and 2018 and are the same part #s as those released in 2019, well then.... you decide what year engine it is.

Just for discussion's sake if the part numbers stayed the same the only differentiation as to what "year" an engine is comes from the VIN derivative the engine is stamped with.  There are always the distinctions between year of manufacture, year or production, etc.  A given part number may last several model years though.  So its "year" becomes what VIN it got and then stuck in a bike. 

A replacement engine built new today from fresh cases and stamped with a 2009 VIN to replace a failure in an 09 bike then becomes what "year" engine?  Even if those new cases might include whatever revisions that have occurred between now and 2009.  The VIN might be 2009.  The part number might be something newer than the original 2009 part number.  The....   well; it can get a little cumbersome to keep track of sometimes.

I'm hoping your cases are carrying a new part number.  That would suggest a revision or revisions in the product.  Short of that it's all too likely just a hand built replacement of what you've already had.  The only potential benefit there is that at least you're getting a different set of cases; just in case yours were part of the problem but that problem doesn't exist in all builds (which is an entirely different worrisome proposition).

[grc]

The number engraved on the machined flat pad on the side of the engine case is usually the abbreviated VIN, which contains letters and numbers.  The last six digits are supposed to be the same as the last six digits of the official vehicle identification number that is on the certification label attached to the frame.  In this case they obviously didn't use the abbreviated VIN of the bike, so perhaps that number is just an engine serial number.  I haven't found any information on how to interpret that all numeric number, but I have seen photo's of the long block engines Harley sells that appear to use the same all numeric format on their engine serial numbers.  If you want to verify exactly what that engine is, you will probably need to contact someone at the MoCo, like whoever you've been dealing with previously.  If that is in fact the engine serial number, you will want to have documentation (copy with the bike) to prove it's a legally obtained engine to replace the original.  Officially the VIN of a bike is the one on the frame and title, not the engine, but some states do inspect the engine numbers to verify the engine isn't stolen.  Mine does.

Jerry

 

[Heatwave]

Just for discussion's sake if the part numbers stayed the same the only differentiation as to what "year" an engine is comes from the VIN derivative the engine is stamped with.  There are always the distinctions between year of manufacture, year or production, etc.  A given part number may last several model years though.  So its "year" becomes what VIN it got and then stuck in a bike. 

A replacement engine built new today from fresh cases and stamped with a 2009 VIN to replace a failure in an 09 bike then becomes what "year" engine?  Even if those new cases might include whatever revisions that have occurred between now and 2009.  The VIN might be 2009.  The part number might be something newer than the original 2009 part number.  The....   well; it can get a little cumbersome to keep track of sometimes.

I'm hoping your cases are carrying a new part number.  That would suggest a revision or revisions in the product.  Short of that it's all too likely just a hand built replacement of what you've already had.  The only potential benefit there is that at least you're getting a different set of cases; just in case yours were part of the problem but that problem doesn't exist in all builds (which is an entirely different worrisome proposition).

My point exactly. Nobody cares what date an engine is "labeled", they care what date it was built and with what parts. IMO what dates an engine is what parts it is built from and when they were assembled.

I'm quite confident that the case part number for this engine is 13708454. I believe I am either the first or one of the first private CVO bike owners with an engine built on this new engine case part #. I also believe this will be the same part # used in all 2019+ CVO bikes and perhaps used in all replacement engines for failed 2017 and 2018 CVO M8 engines. These remarks are just my opinion and I have NO Facts to support them.

I just got home from Rolling Thunder and the bike ran spectacular. We skipped the parade given the forecast but spent time at the Vietnam Memorial and the Iwo Jima Memorial in honor of our Nation's Fallen Heroes. Its an honor to do it yearly.

I now have 850 miles since this new Factory-built 117 Stage IV engine was installed in my bike by my dealer on Thursday. Simply amazing engine. I could not be more impressed. This engine ran flawless. Never a stumble. It didn't care if it was hot or cool. It ran awesome and more powerfully than any Factory engine I've ever been on. Its the 4th engine in this bike and NONE of the 3 prior engines, even before they sumped, could even remotely compare to this new engine.

"Tip-in" was amazing. "Roll-on" power was outstanding. This engine has far more low end torque than any of the previous 3 engines. And more than the stock engine. And give this engine rpms and it eats them up. The engine spools up effortlessly and can run as long as you want in upper rpms. It just rips if you want to use the whole rpm range.

I'm telling you, put this factory engine in the hands of ANY touring bike owner and he'll never think of owning a different brand. My confidence is fully back. I just rode 250 miles this morning and I already miss riding the bike, its that much fun.

I have no idea what changes were made internally to this engine. To be honest, I don't even know for sure what cam is inside (although most likely its the SE515). I broke this engine in gently, but then made it "earn its keep" after the first 500 miles. And it DEFINITELY earned its keep in the last 300-400 miles under ALL conditions at ANY Temperature, after running it HARD or EASY, for SHORT Runs or LONG runs, using LOW rpms or running it hard in HIGHER rpms. The engine just kept delivering!

Harley, if you're reading this thread (and I suspect you are), don't screw around. Start cranking out these engines. Ramp up QC on the assembly. Get this engine into your 2019 CVOs. Take care of all the 2017 and 2018 CVO owners with this EXACT engine and you will earn back every single customer AND MORE, You have the solution. Don't waste time and don't pinch pennies. Get this engine into customer's hands immediately. You will get your money back 10-fold!!