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[Archer069]

New to the forum and I have a simple question with ref to air filters.  I have a 2008 CVO FLHTCUSE3 with the stock HD air filter. Looking at replacing the stock air filter with a K&N HD-1508.  It seems to be a "plug and play" filter with with no change in the backing plate or any other hardware.
1. Does the ECM need to be flashed with the change to a high volume air filter
2. Will there be oil blow-by with a drop in vacuum pressure because of more air entering the throttle body.

Thanks everyone
Mike

[Para Bellum]

1.  If you still have the stock head pipe and mufflers, you won't need a new fuel map just from the new filter...b/c with the stock exhaust system, the new filter won't allow any extra flow (even if it is a hi-flow filter).  OTOH, If you have an aftermarket exhaust, it definitely needs a new fuel map (should have had one as soon as the exhaust was changed, as it was running lean even before the change).

And if you have the Ventilator intake, a higher-flow filter won't make much difference, as the Ventilator is high-flow already.

2.  Again, with the stock exhaust, there won't be any extra air flow.  Either way, it's the speed of the air flow that determines the vacuum:  higher speed = more vacuum.

[Archer069]

1.  If you still have the stock head pipe and mufflers, you won't need a new fuel map just from the new filter...b/c with the stock exhaust system, the new filter won't allow any extra flow (even if it is a hi-flow filter).  OTOH, If you have an aftermarket exhaust, it definitely needs a new fuel map (should have had one as soon as the exhaust was changed, as it was running lean even before the change).

And if you have the Ventilator intake, a higher-flow filter won't make much difference, as the Ventilator is high-flow already.

2.  Again, with the stock exhaust, there won't be any extra air flow.  Either way, it's the speed of the air flow that determines the vacuum:  higher speed = more vacuum.

The whole ride is stock and has the HD 29663-08 stock air filter, not sure if this is also a high flow filter and I'm not sure about the intake, as stated the bike is stock with no changes from the 08 CVO plant, thanks for helping out a nube.

[grc]

The stock air cleaner is the older style "football" A/C, and really isn't considered high flow.  The K&N replacement for the stock filter element is the same size and shape as the stock piece, the only difference is it's a cotton gauze material that must be oiled instead of the stock pleated paper, and it can flow a little more air than the stock part.  The K&N can be cleaned and re-oiled versus just replacing the stock element.  If you're looking for a real high flow air cleaner, this change won't do much.

JMHO - Jerry

[Rooster]

What do you suggest for best flow?

[georgw221]

What do you suggest for best flow?

Give this a try..
http://boyesen.com/power-x-intake

[grc]

What do you suggest for best flow?

If he plans to keep the rest of the bike stock, there really isn't much need to change the air cleaner.  If he decides to add a high flow exhaust system, then he might want to consider the old style SE air cleaner (round with round filter element), or I believe the Heavy Breather can be installed on a 2008.  Of course the aftermarket also has too many offerings to list as well.  Still won't need to go with a huge legroom stealing contraption unless he does some serious engine upgrades.  To me, it's not worth it on a street bike to give up comfort and convenience to install one of those oversized air cleaners just to gain a couple horsepower on a dyno.  That's just me.

JNHO - Jerry

[Para Bellum]

Bottom line:  No point in changing the filter element unless you really want a reusable element.  I always found them more of a PITA than they're worth--still have to R&R them, plus clean, dry, re-oil.

[CVODON]

X2 on the pain to maintain. Also if you search around some company in calif (Air Flow Resource? Maybe) did a study and about all the OE style paper filters outflowed the K&N also the oil is no longer a good thing for fuel injection Mass Air Flow sensors etc. I wash my paper one, let it dry overnight and go on down the road.

[grc]

When the K&N is dry or nearly dry, it flows real well (since it doesn't stop anything smaller than a pebble when dry).  When it's oiled really well, as in slightly excessively, it doesn't flow as well as the washable paper elements of the same size.  There is probably a place between dry and soaked where it does what they claim, but the typical person doing a clean and re-oil job won't find that sweet spot unless he gets lucky.  Then over time the oil "disappears" from the pores of the gauze, leaving you with a dry filter again.  I say it's not worth the hassle, based on about eighteen years of experience with their filters.

JMHO - Jerry

[longlast]

Only a suggestion,  why not go with the a Stage 1 High Flow Air Filter Kit (that the stock air cover fits over) then when you want to change the  exhaust that bits done. It's not going to heart having the Stage 1 kit on with stock exhaust but you'll need it if you change your pipes .

[grc]

Only a suggestion,  why not go with the a Stage 1 High Flow Air Filter Kit (that the stock air cover fits over) then when you want to change the  exhaust that bits done. It's not going to heart having the Stage 1 kit on with stock exhaust but you'll need it if you change your pipes .

That's the round filter I mentioned previously, the old style round SE filter.  The current ones come with the washable paper element, not the K&N, and I'd recommend sticking with the paper element.  One problem using that filter with the stock CVO football cover is that the 2006 and later CVO covers are not properly supported on the end of those filters, which has resulted in the cover bolt pulling out the center weld nut in the filter end plate after vibration and movement fractured the end plate at the nut.  Lot's of lost or damaged covers resulted.  Just something to be aware of if anyone decides to use the stock CVO 2006 and up cover with those SE Stage I air cleaners.  There should still be many old threads on the site discussing this issue.

Jerry

[longlast]

That's the round filter I mentioned previously, the old style round SE filter.  The current ones come with the washable paper element, not the K&N, and I'd recommend sticking with the paper element.  One problem using that filter with the stock CVO football cover is that the 2006 and later CVO covers are not properly supported on the end of those filters, which has resulted in the cover bolt pulling out the center weld nut in the filter end plate after vibration and movement fractured the end plate at the nut.  Lot's of lost or damaged covers resulted.  Just something to be aware of if anyone decides to use the stock CVO 2006 and up cover with those SE Stage I air cleaners.  There should still be many old threads on the site discussing this issue.

Jerry

Can't say about the older ones, this is what I use I'm on the second one now in 22k with no issues.  The  nut is welded at the back of the metal plate , most likely an upgrade from issues you mentioned

[gmeikle]

That is not an HD-1508 mate ! HD-1508 is a stock airbox drop in straight replacement. I used to fit them all the time for folks here in Australia with good results.

They work well in "best bang for the buck" scenarios

That latest photo is an HD-0800 , which replaces the Screamin' Eagle Stage 1 air filter element from 2001 onwards

[longlast]

That is not an HD-1508 mate ! HD-1508 is a stock airbox drop in straight replacement. I used to fit them all the time for folks here in Australia with good results.

They work well in "best bang for the buck" scenarios

That latest photo is an HD-0800 , which replaces the Screamin' Eagle Stage 1 air filter element from 2001 onwards

Your right it's not,
  The pic is only a reference to "grc" post  regarding  the centre nut breaking free. Its fixed behind the filter plate for preventing it breaking free and your football filter cover falling off that he was referring to. 

This would be  Archer069    kit.

[gmeikle]

Aha , I see. Sorry for picking up on the wrong thing !

I was fitting those K&N HD-1499 stock airbox drop in filters to Softails here for years.

From 2007 and up Australian delivered Softails had an "Active Air" flapper valve in the air intake throat.

With that restriction flapper hacksawed off the stock OEM airbox had a much bigger ( 33%) cool air intake so the K&N HD-1499 worked very well

As for K&N oil affecting throttle body or other parts I have never witnessed it in 23 years of Harley wrenching ( sorry "spannering" haha..)

[longlast]

No worries gmeikle,
I'm by far no HD wrencher compared to your experience . You had the wrenching part right I do wrench the Harley, but I spanner the Mini 

[grc]

Can't say about the older ones, this is what I use I'm on the second one now in 22k with no issues.  The  nut is welded at the back of the metal plate , most likely an upgrade from issues you mentioned

The old one I have looks just like the one in your post, with the nut welded to the inner surface of the end plate.  The failures didn't occur at the actual weld, the material of the end plate cracked and eventually broke out around the periphery of the embossed area.  Metal fatigue due to the constant movement of the poorly supported and very heavy cover was the problem.  I don't know if they ever reinforced that area or not. You could take a look on the inside to see if they added a larger diameter and thicker plate in that area to spread the load more effectively.

This is a link to a thread from back in '07 about this same subject:

https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=51271.msg751321#msg751321


Jerry

[grc]

-----------------------------------------------------------

As for K&N oil affecting throttle body or other parts I have never witnessed it in 23 years of Harley wrenching ( sorry "spannering" haha..)

That earlier comment was in regard to vehicles having a mass airflow sensor downstream of the filter.  It's not something you see on a Harley, but you do on many cars.  Some people using K&N's on cars have had mass airflow sensor problems after over-oiling the filters.  I believe that is what Don was talking about.

Jerry

[longlast]

The old one I have looks just like the one in your post, with the nut welded to the inner surface of the end plate.  The failures didn't occur at the actual weld, the material of the end plate cracked and eventually broke out around the periphery of the embossed area.  Metal fatigue due to the constant movement of the poorly supported and very heavy cover was the problem.  I don't know if they ever reinforced that area or not. You could take a look on the inside to see if they added a larger diameter and thicker plate in that area to spread the load more effectively.

This is a link to a thread from back in '07 about this same subject:

https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=51271.msg751321#msg751321


Jerry

  Now I get  what you meant .   

[johnsachs]

The best air cleaner assy. hands down, for a stock cover, is the KURYAAKYN STREET SWEEPER.
John

[CVODON]

It was, auto's have problems with the oil, not HD's.

[timo482]

i run the round stage one air cleaner with no cover, i put a button screw in the bolt hole. easy to clean and easy to inspect.

i don't remember who, but somebody ran dyno numbers - and the air cleaner with no cover was the biggest bang for the buck. the theory was that the cover pulled in hotter air off the front head. the super expensive unit with the 90 degree bend and all the in your knee crap was almost the same as the stage one with no cover.. so its a stage one with no cover.

to

[grc]

i run the round stage one air cleaner with no cover, i put a button screw in the bolt hole. easy to clean and easy to inspect.

i don't remember who, but somebody ran dyno numbers - and the air cleaner with no cover was the biggest bang for the buck. the theory was that the cover pulled in hotter air off the front head. the super expensive unit with the 90 degree bend and all the in your knee crap was almost the same as the stage one with no cover.. so its a stage one with no cover.

to

OR, you can get a small round cover that will make the outer end of the filter look prettier but won't affect flow.  Some people get them painted to match their bikes (I seem to remember a guy on the site who likes red bikes having one painted red for instance). 

JMHO - Jerry

[georgw221]

The best air cleaner assy. hands down, for a stock cover, is the KURYAAKYN STREET SWEEPER.
John
[/quote
If you do back to back testing with this one, you might just change your mind ..
http://boyesen.com/power-x-intake