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[gearida]

I have many years of riding and yes ABS brakes have shown me once they work. However, I have experienced several times where I completely dislike the ABS Brakes on Harley Davidson's bikes. My 2008 and now my 2012 have scared me to some degree and now I am suffering from whiplash and in pain! I have brought this to the attention of the service department of two dealers, I don't think they ride! They look at me like I am doing something wrong and/or my bike is broken.  When braking and hitting a small bump the ABS will let go of the brakes, I will travel what feels like ten feet without brakes, then the ABS will engage and stop me, if I don't hit another ripple or bump on the road. Don't get me started on issues with gravel... just as BMW allows you to turn the ABS off for gravel use I think Harley should too. This weekend I was rolling about twenty MPH down an old road towards a old river dam, the road has inch drops in the road surface, almost like a beach where the surface has steps. I was on both brakes, they released by themselves and my bike seemed to pick up speed and snapped my neck back as it did. Then after traveling ten or twelve feet the brakes came back and I squeezed hard to engage the brakes, the ABS pumped twice and I slowed. This is crazy, and now I feel like I have whiplash! Anyone else ever experience this issue?

[grc]

Find a dealership where they fully understand ABS and how to diagnose it.

Any ABS system will react to the sudden deceleration of the wheel and tire when you go airborne over bumps or hit poor traction surfaces like sand and gravel with the brakes applied.  But you shouldn't lose all braking for any noticeable period of time after the tire and wheel regain traction.  If you are, then there is something wrong.  Harley had to come out with software fixes on the early ABS bikes for this very reason, but I haven't heard of this being a widespread problem on the 2012 models.

Maybe what you really need is a better suspension that helps keep the tires on the ground.

Jerry

[gearida]

Good point, the factory air ride does allow the rear to bounce off the ground. I ride pretty hard, but not stupid, I think my rear rotor is warped from the tire bouncing and the ABS hitting the brake hard when I did not really need it too.

[FLHTCUSE7]

Prior to 2014 HD ABS brakes are not very good. (Useless in my opinion since they extend the break distance significantly)

Starting 2014 HDs ABS brakes are phenomenal and work seamless and darn near perfect.

[halfcirclej]

I thought ABS only works when the wheels lock up. If I'm modulating the brakes manually an I don't lock a wheel it never comes into action. If I cram on the brakes hard, you can feel the ABS taking over the braking. You can hear the ABS an feel it in the bike. A skidding tire has less traction.
The only trouble I've had is when they changed my break switch. They had to bleed the brakes three times to get it back to normal. Mechanic took the switch out an let the brake fluid drip on the floor until he prepared the new switch. He self induced air into the system by not replacing the switch as soon as he disconnected it.
Other they have worked as designed. The use of the computer is required if any of the lines are broken allowing air to enter the brake system.

[gearida]

Problem I have is when hitting a bump, this causes the ABS brakes to activate. It is not a panic skid type braking at all. Light braking and hitting a small ripple will activate the ABS. The tire seems to get light on the road, maybe it comes off the ground, then as the tire gets light to the ground or off, the light application of brakes causes the sensor to assume it is locked up. So the first pump of the ABS pressure releases the brakes and the speed of the bike picks up. If you continue to hit a uneven surface the ABS system will cause more issues than a rider needs. I will scare the heck out of most people, I thought I was going to hit my brother this weekend and I was not going fast. I just could not stop, the brakes would not apply. I have had it checked for fault codes and the dealer said it is working as it was designed.

[halfcirclej]

Gearida, has the dealer bleed the brakes on your bike? How much pressure do you carry in the rear shocks? I usually have at least 20 lbs in mine. I don't understand how the wheel coming off the ground an locking a wheel.  Is this occurring with both front an rear brakes? I always use both when stopping. All this action happens instantaneous. You should hear an feel a rapid thudding under your seat as long as you have brakes applied. If not there is something wrong. Take it to another dealer an have them put it on the computer an it must be bleed a minimum of twice. I believe that is what the manual states. It could be the wheel sensors or the skid unit itself. Codes be dammed, this is dangerous an life threatening. In which case it needs to be identified an reported.

[gearida]

I run 9 to 11 pounds of air in the rear shocks. If I put more air I feel the rear sits high and it is a very hard ride. I am using both brakes when this happens. The ABS will let pressure off both front and rear brakes when this happens, then yes when the bike regains it braking I hear the pump. This weekend I grabbed full pull of the front brake and waited for the pressure to resume. It stopped perfectly without a skid at that point. I was very sore yesterday!

[halfcirclej]

Gearida, it's my opinion you have a problem with the brakes. You should not have to wait for pressure to resume. The brake pressure that you apply remains almost the same, except for the microsecond it takes to release the skid an reapply the same pressure you have applied to brakes. This action happens instantly. The thudding you hear or feel is the brakes releasing and reapplying and it happens in microseconds with no delay. I suggest you have them bleed an service the system twice on the computer. If this does no fix it, report to the NATSA (can't remember the name) but they collect stuff safety related which results in recalls ordered by the government. Or call moco complaint department.
I hope this helps.

[05Train]

I run 9 to 11 pounds of air in the rear shocks. If I put more air I feel the rear sits high and it is a very hard ride. I am using both brakes when this happens. The ABS will let pressure off both front and rear brakes when this happens, then yes when the bike regains it braking I hear the pump. This weekend I grabbed full pull of the front brake and waited for the pressure to resume. It stopped perfectly without a skid at that point. I was very sore yesterday!

That's not nearly enough air pressure.  You're getting nearly no damping at all out of your shocks if they're set that low.

[phato1]

Prior to 2014 HD ABS brakes are not very good. (Useless in my opinion since they extend the break distance significantly)

Starting 2014 HDs ABS brakes are phenomenal and work seamless and darn near perfect.

I don't know why you feel that way, the ABS on my 11.5 honestly saved our a** during a true panic stop when another much larger vehicle cut into our path.  I was able to firmly apply both brakes and maintain control, take evasive action and avoid the collision. the ABS made it a lot easier to concentrate on our avenue of escape and made a high stress, change your shorts situation less stressful.

 And before it gets argued that a skilled rider can do that without ABS - in a true OH SH!T situation the vast majority of us would be hard pressed to pull it off, especially with a passenger - who by the way will not be sitting calmly waiting for the bike to stop - your ribs are going to be sore for days from the squeezing and your ears may ring from the scream -and I can  perform a "panic" stop/evade when practicing by the way - I'm just trying to point out that real life is way different from closed course or empty parking lot practice. 

gearida, I would have the system bled properly and perhaps even have the fluid changed - I think the recommended interval is two years for the fluid anyway. I had the fluid changed in mine and the system bled at two years. And yes the stock rear shocks should have more than 11 PSI of air in them - more like 20 - the older,( pre '08?? ) shocks couldn't handle as much air as the newer ones.

[FlaHeatWave]

Sounds like you have brake problems. Have your Dealer test ride the bike...

[FLHTCUSE7]

I feel that way because I been part of testing them on a Police MC evaluation several times.

I also practice, a lot, I would not ride if I was not proficient.

Tested no ABS. HD bikes, the poor ABS on pre 2014, and then the 2014. There is a significant difference. 

My break distance on the no ABS is shorter than on the "old" HD ABS. With the new 2014 ABS I stop shorter with ABS fully engaged. The new brakes really are best in class   

With enough practice events the "oh chit" moments can get less scary.

I also ride lots off road and then off course turn off the ABS completely. (Obviously not on the HD) which help as well.

And I agree on the passenger part, that increases the level of complexity. So if you ride with a passenger you also need to practice with a passenger on board. (I do not ride with a passenger. I don't like having anyone on the back)

But whatever works for everyone is okay with me, I know what works for me.  My point was more that the 2014 brakes are really good and in itself worth the cost to upgrade from an older model.

I don't know why you feel that way, the ABS on my 11.5 honestly saved our a** during a true panic stop when another much larger vehicle cut into our path.  I was able to firmly apply both brakes and maintain control, take evasive action and avoid the collision. the ABS made it a lot easier to concentrate on our avenue of escape and made a high stress, change your shorts situation less stressful.

 And before it gets argued that a skilled rider can do that without ABS - in a true OH SH!T situation the vast majority of us would be hard pressed to pull it off, especially with a passenger - who by the way will not be sitting calmly waiting for the bike to stop - your ribs are going to be sore for days from the squeezing and your ears may ring from the scream -and I can  perform a "panic" stop/evade when practicing by the way - I'm just trying to point out that real life is way different from closed course or empty parking lot practice. 

gearida, I would have the system bled properly and perhaps even have the fluid changed - I think the recommended interval is two years for the fluid anyway. I had the fluid changed in mine and the system bled at two years. And yes the stock rear shocks should have more than 11 PSI of air in them - more like 20 - the older,( pre '08?? ) shocks couldn't handle as much air as the newer ones.

[phato1]

I feel that way because I been part of testing them on a Police MC evaluation several times.

I also practice, a lot, I would not ride if I was not proficient.

Tested no ABS. HD bikes, the poor ABS on pre 2014, and then the 2014. There is a significant difference. 

My break distance on the no ABS is shorter than on the "old" HD ABS. With the new 2014 ABS I stop shorter with ABS fully engaged. The new brakes really are best in class   

With enough practice events the "oh chit" moments can get less scary.

I also ride lots off road and then off course turn off the ABS completely. (Obviously not on the HD) which help as well.

And I agree on the passenger part, that increases the level of complexity. So if you ride with a passenger you also need to practice with a passenger on board. (I do not ride with a passenger. I don't like having anyone on the back)

But whatever works for everyone is okay with me, I know what works for me.  My point was more that the 2014 brakes are really good and in itself worth the cost to upgrade from an older model.

Could it be because the '14 bikes now have linked brakes? 
I haven't really tested the bikes with the linked system to any extent, other than a short demo ride.
 The ABS and linking is suspended/shut off at low speeds to allow better control during parking lot manuevers isn't it?

[FLHTCUSE7]

No it's not the linking. I actually don't like the linkage part but HD did it right. It delinks under 20mph.

It's the electronics (computer) that makes the biggest difference. Great for creating low speed tourqe with the rear brake.

[halfcirclej]

I agree with phato. Both my 08 ultra classic an my 2011 CVO both have ABS. They both stop very well. I don't like the linked system, had it on my old 1984 gold wing. The right front caliber an rear worked together. Left front worked by itself. It could get hairy in a corner using just the rear brake alone.

[grc]

I agree with phato. Both my 08 ultra classic an my 2011 CVO both have ABS. They both stop very well. I don't like the linked system, had it on my old 1984 gold wing. The right front caliber an rear worked together. Left front worked by itself. It could get hairy in a corner using just the rear brake alone.

It all depends on how they set the system up.  If the front caliper is only activated when braking pressure reaches a higher figure, then rear only braking to "set" the suspension for a curve is still possible.  If the system is set up to immediately activate the front caliper at the same time as the rear even with light pedal pressure, then I'd agree it might suck.

Jerry

[halfcirclej]

Jerry is correct. However the gold wing had no shuttle valve in the system.

[Yellow09SERG]

Something else you might check and not sure what years of bikes it applied to, but experienced similar problems but only when riding 2up. Stop light and normal breaking would cause the ABS to activate at every expansion joint. Asked my tech about it one day and he mentioned a service bulletin about ABS and a new download to help with that problem. Rolled the bike back and in 10 minutes he was done. Will not say that it totally fixed it, but you have to be on the brakes pretty hard before the expansion joints are felt in the brakes now

[gearida]

Update, I did as suggested here and added 20 LBS. of air to the rear shocks. It took me a while to learn to like it, but I will say I no longer have active ABS when hitting a small ripple or expansion joint, as I did before. I am totally shocked that four dealers I have spoken to did not have the cure. I guess until you experience the shock or scare of having your brakes let go, do you understand, as a dealer because they don't ride these bike they have no clue. I was fairly sure the manual does not suggest 20 LBS of air. It should! I am much happier now.... Thank you!!!

[CVODON]

You are incorrect when you say the bike sits higher with more air in shocks. The air does not effect length or ride-height, it only effects dampening. 20# is pretty low. Not sure what you meant when you said it was hard to adjust to, the shocks are just not that sensitive to changes in pressure, when you said you went from 11# to 20# that is rather insignificant in the overall sense.

[grc]

You are incorrect when you say the bike sits higher with more air in shocks. The air does not effect length or ride-height, it only effects dampening. 20# is pretty low. Not sure what you meant when you said it was hard to adjust to, the shocks are just not that sensitive to changes in pressure, when you said you went from 11# to 20# that is rather insignificant in the overall sense.

Sorry Don, but you've got that backward.  The air pressure has nothing to do with damping, that's built into the hydraulic system.  The air pressure affects sag and spring rate, and increasing pressure keeps the bike from sagging as much under the weight of the rider/passenger/luggage.  Thus the need to adjust pressure based on the weight being carried.  In my experience the recommendations in the manuals tend to be conservative btw.  If the manual recommends 10 psi for instance, I usually found that 15 to 20 actually worked better for me.  The secret is to experiment to see what suits each individual circumstance and determine your own best settings for one up, two up, and fully loaded.  Just don't exceed the maximum pressure in the manual.   

Jerry

[RonandJanet]

I am glad the problem was fixed so easy. I keep a lot of pressure in my air shocks especially for two up. I found the handling was much better at 40 PSI. The ABS on my 2010 worked great. I never had any issues with them.  My 2014 has the new linked brakes which seems to be OK so far. A little odd when they disengage but still overall I have valued the ABS in both bikes due to emergency stops!

[Ripcord]

I know this is scary - I have a Prius(!) for work use but I experience the same thing. An intersection I drive every day has a manhole just before the lights and when I brake approaching the red light and hit the manhole, the car feels like it surges forward - in other words, the brakes stop functioning until I am over the manhole. If I don't plan for this I would have hit cars in front of me on numerous occasions. BTW, just one wheel goes over the manhole.