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Author Topic: Best AFR?  (Read 30107 times)

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Rhino

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2007, 11:29:14 AM »

Rhino, what kind of mpgs do you get?


On another post I mentioned 2 up riding, warm, around 80 degrees, 345 lbs with the both of us, got 36.5.  Am currently runnning another tank solo, but two things happen. By myself I run more agressively (naturally)  but the bike, being 122 lbs lighter, should give me another mpg or so.  I also know if my cruise is set to 75-80 mph, I would expect no more than 33 or so. Running in 6th does add more TPosition, hence more resistance etc.  I think if you look back and figure it out by yourself you might analyze this better. It is difficult long distance to know what you got there. Sounds like you should use the base map, and be satisfied with that. Tweaking it long distance is not a good thing.

Rhino
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Ironhorse

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2007, 09:21:57 AM »

On another post I mentioned 2 up riding, warm, around 80 degrees, 345 lbs with the both of us, got 36.5.  Am currently runnning another tank solo, but two things happen. By myself I run more agressively (naturally)  but the bike, being 122 lbs lighter, should give me another mpg or so.  I also know if my cruise is set to 75-80 mph, I would expect no more than 33 or so. Running in 6th does add more TPosition, hence more resistance etc.  I think if you look back and figure it out by yourself you might analyze this better. It is difficult long distance to know what you got there. Sounds like you should use the base map, and be satisfied with that. Tweaking it long distance is not a good thing.

Rhino

Well I ride solo, and am very conservative. I would LOVE to get 33mpgs.

Mark
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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2007, 11:26:18 AM »

Well I ride solo, and am very conservative. I would LOVE to get 33mpgs.

Mark

Yea, me too!  But then we're burning Calif. gas Mark.  As we (me, Andy and Jon) did our cross country trip last year we all noticed that we were getting much better mileage back east (and paying much less for gas, too!).  You know about all the crap that CARB adds to our fuel out here :nixweiss:  And now they're doing it to diesel fuel, too.
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Rhino

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2007, 11:34:19 AM »

Well I ride solo, and am very conservative. I would LOVE to get 33mpgs.

Mark

I still think you are missing the point.  You need to be more pro active on your changes, and let us know.  We have been giving suggestions, but I fail to get reply and reports on those changes you are making.  You will see a difference in your economy if you followed our leads.  The bad gas so to speak would not affect your mileage so much as weaker combustion and pinging potential. The autotune will take care of most of that, as long as you are running a premium grade fuel of 91-93 octane.  That octane maintains the burn.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2007, 02:58:31 PM »

I still think you are missing the point.  You need to be more pro active on your changes, and let us know.  We have been giving suggestions, but I fail to get reply and reports on those changes you are making.  You will see a difference in your economy if you followed our leads.  The bad gas so to speak would not affect your mileage so much as weaker combustion and pinging potential. The autotune will take care of most of that, as long as you are running a premium grade fuel of 91-93 octane.  That octane maintains the burn.

Rhino, I thought I would start first by leaning it out on at freeway and cruising speeds, so here is where I made my changes.

My Zippers base was 13.19 to 1. I started in the AFR vs TPS at 1792 rpms. At 14.8 degrees of throttle, I raised the box up two positions. I did that until the third box over was peaked at 13.831 to 1 afr, then I tapered the curve back down until the third box over, (throttle position 31.467 degrees) from the peak was back level at 13.19 to 1. I did the exact same type of curve at 2048rpms, except this time the two middle boxes were peaked at 14.005 to 1. I did the same thing at 2304 rpms, starting with raising the box at 14.8 degrees throttle, raising the line until the two center boxes were at 14.005, and dropping the curve untill the throttle position box at 31.467 degrees was at 13.91 to 1 afr. I did this through each consecutive AFR vs TPS stopping at 3840 rpms. In that last one, I started raising the box at 31.467 throttle, to 13.253 to 1 afr, peaked it at 14.005 to 1 afr, and dropped it back down until the 51.492 throttle position was back at the 13.021 to 1 afr. I'm thinking this may be leaning out the freeway and cruising ranges. I may be wall off, and probably am, but that is what I have done so far.

Now I'm thinking I need to lean out the off idle and low end stuff too, but dn't know where to start.
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2007, 05:38:39 PM »

I still think you are missing the point.  You need to be more pro active on your changes, and let us know.  We have been giving suggestions, but I fail to get reply and reports on those changes you are making.  You will see a difference in your economy if you followed our leads.  The bad gas so to speak would not affect your mileage so much as weaker combustion and pinging potential. The autotune will take care of most of that, as long as you are running a premium grade fuel of 91-93 octane.  That octane maintains the burn.

I was under the impression that the composition of the fuel can also have a fairly dramatic impact on fuel mileage...for instance, the 10% ethanol fuels, while having the same octane rating, burn less efficiently, so fuel ecomomy suffers. :nixweiss:
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Rhino

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2007, 09:36:45 PM »

I was under the impression that the composition of the fuel can also have a fairly dramatic impact on fuel mileage...for instance, the 10% ethanol fuels, while having the same octane rating, burn less efficiently, so fuel ecomomy suffers. :nixweiss:

OK, I will have to agree .. and disagree...   my info indicates while there are many variables that affect fuel economy (weather, bike condition, road grade, tire pressure, etc.),  fuel economy with ethanol-enriched fuels may decrease by about 2 percent in fuel-injected applications. So bikes that average 30 MPG on the highway would average about 29.4 with ethanol-enriched fuel. This is only a slight variance that probably won’t be noticed by the average rider. .

Gasoline enriched with ethanol performs in much the same way that regular gasoline does, and actually surpasses regular gasoline in key performance categories.

All auto manufacturers who sell cars in the United States approve fuels enriched with up to 10 percent ethanol — and many recommend it for its clean-burning benefits.  Millions of cars in countries like Brazil run on 100 percent ethanol without difficulty. Right now, ethanol’s use in the United States is currently limited to ethanol-gasoline blends.  I cannot comment on carbuerator use, but the EFI systems compensate dramatically.  JMHO mixed with facts..

Rhino(fastestethanolfreejesternorthoftheborder)




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Rhino

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2007, 09:48:42 PM »

Rhino, I thought I would start first by leaning it out on at freeway and cruising speeds, so here is where I made my changes.

Now I'm thinking I need to lean out the off idle and low end stuff too, but dn't know where to start.

For RPM and TPS, starting at 2816RPM and UP to redline, use this map.  If you make any changes in this rpm range and higher, go richer, by lowering the boxes.  If you want, go one tick LOWER on each. Then, copy this page, (controlc) and paste it into each succeding higher RPM range.  That will certainly be exactly where you want to be.  From 2816 RPM and LOWER RPM, I will accumulate each band and post for you. Match them and you will have a sweet running Jester.  Stay tuned for more later on.

Rhino
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Ironhorse

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2007, 10:30:26 PM »

For RPM and TPS, starting at 2816RPM and UP to redline, use this map.  If you make any changes in this rpm range and higher, go richer, by lowering the boxes.  If you want, go one tick LOWER on each. Then, copy this page, (controlc) and paste it into each succeding higher RPM range.  That will certainly be exactly where you want to be.  From 2816 RPM and LOWER RPM, I will accumulate each band and post for you. Match them and you will have a sweet running Jester.  Stay tuned for more later on.

Rhino

Jester, I REALLY appreciate the help with tuning.

For my own understanding, this MAP should be used for all AFR vs TPS settings from 2816rpm up to redline. And any changes should be to richen the AFR by moving the boxes down. Correct?

Thanks
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icybay

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2007, 11:04:20 PM »

Then, copy this page, (controlc) and paste it into each succeding higher RPM range.


Just exactly how are you doing this?? I can't copy and paste from one RPM to another. I have version 2006.17.9 

Also are you getting the "13.542" number off the map or are you multiplying clicks by .06 (or whatever) and adding them to the known value?  . I cant click on a point and get a reading.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2007, 11:17:14 PM »

Then, copy this page, (controlc) and paste it into each succeding higher RPM range.


Just exactly how are you doing this?? I can't copy and paste from one RPM to another. I have version 2006.17.9 

Also are you getting the "13.542" number off the map or are you multiplying clicks by .06 (or whatever) and adding them to the known value?  . I cant click on a point and get a reading.


Icybay,

I don't know how he is copying and pasting either. I am probably going to have to do all the MAP changes manually.
To read a point, or "box", just put the arrow on it, and hit the space bar on your keyboard.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2007, 11:38:13 PM »

From 2816 RPM and LOWER RPM, I will accumulate each band and post for you. Match them and you will have a sweet running Jester.  Stay tuned for more later on.

Rhino

Okay Rhino, I'm done copying your tune from 2,816rpm up to redline (6,400 for me). I'll keep an eye out for your posting on the 2,816 rpm and lower.

Mark
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icybay

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2007, 01:17:09 AM »

To answer my own question-  I downloaded the new manual and I found out that they added a new feature   "Shift-Control C" to copy and "Shift-Control V" to paste.
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Rhino

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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2007, 02:19:39 AM »

Okay Rhino, I'm done copying your tune from 2,816rpm up to redline (6,400 for me). I'll keep an eye out for your posting on the 2,816 rpm and lower.

Mark

I have the recent changes on my laptop. Tommorrow I will cover the lower end of the spectrum. They are all diffrent.  They will give a nice economy for cruise, but at the same time, will perform well at the high end.  Until then, chek it out. Punch it at any RPM over 2800 and feel the differene. Ignore the lower, for now, you won't hurt anything.

Rhino(jestertunedbyzippersmapsmakingmegorealfast)
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Re: Best AFR?
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2007, 02:23:22 AM »

This is facinating! I gotta get me one of those things. Sounds like it'll go great with the new top end this winter! ;) But AJ better look out then! ::) Hoist! 8)
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