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[grc]

Re:  How far can a manufacturer hide its head in the sand when it can be said "hey, my Vega timing belt can SAFELY go three times as long as I trust my modern Harley's lifters."

Millions of cam-in-block pushrod automotive engines that use various versions of the same lifters are racking up a hundred thousand or more miles without changing a single lifter.  Not only should Harley be ashamed of themselves, they should be forced to pay for all the premature failures.  But there again, in order to feel ashamed of something you produce and sell, you need to actually give a chit about your customers.  No evidence of that so far.

Jerry

[Ghost Rider]

Noise schmoise.  Just be glad we caught it when it had only skated just a little and before any real shrapnel happened.  Then it would have ugly.

I know.  Had that happened I might have had to think about retiring Kermit.   

[sadunbar]

Re:  How far can a manufacturer hide its head in the sand when it can be said "hey, my Vega timing belt can SAFELY go three times as long as I trust my modern Harley's lifters."

Millions of cam-in-block pushrod automotive engines that use various versions of the same lifters are racking up a hundred thousand or more miles without changing a single lifter.  Not only should Harley be ashamed of themselves, they should be forced to pay for all the premature failures.  But there again, in order to feel ashamed of something you produce and sell, you need to actually give a chit about your customers.  No evidence of that so far.

Jerry

Absolutely.  Well said...

I rarely ride by SEUC anymore.  I am sick and tired of changing lifters!  And paying for lifters!   


Most of my riding is my 2000 FXR and EVO motor...  Quiet and trouble free.

[MCE]

Re:  How far can a manufacturer hide its head in the sand when it can be said "hey, my Vega timing belt can SAFELY go three times as long as I trust my modern Harley's lifters."

Millions of cam-in-block pushrod automotive engines that use various versions of the same lifters are racking up a hundred thousand or more miles without changing a single lifter.  Not only should Harley be ashamed of themselves, they should be forced to pay for all the premature failures.  But there again, in order to feel ashamed of something you produce and sell, you need to actually give a chit about your customers.  No evidence of that so far.

Jerry

It's all about the bottom line, bonuses for the executives, shareholder value. The end users are the last thing on their
minds and those folks are left holding the bag.
 
To me, it would be worth adding a few bucks to the cost of the bikes by putting in quality parts where there are known
issues (at least).

But they obviously don't see it that way. :/

[DCFIREMANN]

Funny thing about this thread (not really) is we have been fighting this lifter issue since Harley started producing the 110 motor. I'm sure there might have been a few 103 lifter issues but I really don't remember any. I have a 2014 110 punched to 113. When I did the build some 36000 miles ago I tried to use the best parts available. I broke the cases and installed a new S&S crank, went with a feuling pump plate and lifters, Zippers did the heads and bored the cylinders. That was 2 1/2 years ago. Now I didn't have any problems but I had installed TC24D cams in the motor when I built it and wanted to change them to T Man 600sm's. Also I wasn't sure but I thought I may be having issues with oil pressure. I called and talked to Feuling and also talked to Axel about the oil pressure at idle. Everyone thought that there was an issue. I removed the oil pump and it looked new. I pressure checked the cam plate and the relief valve was opening early. I replace the spring and put the bike back together. I now have GREAT oil pressure.

Now back to the thread. While on the phone with Feuling I asked how long should their lifters last. I was told that if everything is set up right ( even spring pressures) that they should last the life of the engine. The life of the engine?? Really?? Yes the life of the engine. We know the factory lifters are junk. I personally use either Feuling or S&S premium lifters on any build or lifter replacement I do in my shop. I have yet to have a lifter failure. But we all know that can change.


Now for the $64000 question. Why all of the problems with the dreaded 110 motor and not the 103's??


Be Safe

THE DAWG

[MCE]

Some of my observations; 110s have a ton of (unneeded) valve spring seat pressure. Secondly, they've been cutting corners
in their manufacturing processes as the years go by.

Crankshafts for an example; Run-out in the .007" range is not uncommon. (.003" used to be considered the max.)
They don't put "real" bearings in the cam chest anymore. Loose guides, missing valve stem seals, I could go on....

Most "changes" they implement are centered around making the bikes less expensive to produce, rather than making them
more robust.

Steering head bearings is another one; I bought a brand new bike several years ago and the steering head bearings
rattled over bumps from day-one (on the ride home) and gradually got worse. Harley wouldn't fix it because "that's a maintenance
issue". HUH?

A brand new bike has "maintenance issues"? Shouldn't they check/adjust that when they build it or service it? What a crock of $hit!

I'm sure others here will chime in and cite some other examples. But those are the ones that stand out in my mind.

[HD Street Performance]

Funny thing about this thread (not really) is we have been fighting this lifter issue since Harley started producing the 110 motor. I'm sure there might have been a few 103 lifter issues but I really don't remember any. I have a 2014 110 punched to 113. When I did the build some 36000 miles ago I tried to use the best parts available. I broke the cases and installed a new S&S crank, went with a feuling pump plate and lifters, Zippers did the heads and bored the cylinders. That was 2 1/2 years ago. Now I didn't have any problems but I had installed TC24D cams in the motor when I built it and wanted to change them to T Man 600sm's. Also I wasn't sure but I thought I may be having issues with oil pressure. I called and talked to Feuling and also talked to Axel about the oil pressure at idle. Everyone thought that there was an issue. I removed the oil pump and it looked new. I pressure checked the cam plate and the relief valve was opening early. I replace the spring and put the bike back together. I now have GREAT oil pressure.

Now back to the thread. While on the phone with Feuling I asked how long should their lifters last. I was told that if everything is set up right ( even spring pressures) that they should last the life of the engine. The life of the engine?? Really?? Yes the life of the engine. We know the factory lifters are junk. I personally use either Feuling or S&S premium lifters on any build or lifter replacement I do in my shop. I have yet to have a lifter failure. But we all know that can change.


Now for the $64000 question. Why all of the problems with the dreaded 110 motor and not the 103's??


Be Safe

THE DAWG

Valid question, the valve springs are the came for the cvo103 and 110. Same pressure profile

[lowflight]

The aforementioned lifter...

Is this a 2313SE? How many miles did that one make it? I have heard good reports on these lifters, I have set that are going in in the next few days.

[Twolanerider]

Is this a 2313SE? How many miles did that one make it? I have heard good reports on these lifters, I have set that are going in in the next few days.

No it wasn't.  It was replaced with the 2313SE lifters though.

[lowflight]

No it wasn't.  It was replaced with the 2313SE lifters though.

  That makes me feel a bit better.

[Twolanerider]

That makes me feel a bit better.

I've got to feel the same way.  A set of the B2313SE are here brand new in a box just waiting to get used with the engine work happening in my old Road Glide sometime (hopefully) sooner rather then later.

[HD Street Performance]

Now for the $64000 question. Why all of the problems with the dreaded 110 motor and not the 103's??

Because of the added weight of the valve springs (not pressure), heavier valves, flexy pushrods, and a fast profile cam. Took the mediocre lifters right over the top. Add good lifters and life is extended but the problem, root cause, is not fixed