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[FNGw/08SERK]

This is what I encoutered on my first ride of the season. Picked up the bike from Utica Harley Davidson earlier today. After their a$$h0!e salesman told me that the head gasket leak was BS and that I was "hyper critical" the following is what I found when I returned home.

[FNGw/08SERK]

I would like to personally thank the MOCO at this time

[FNGw/08SERK]

    

[Twolanerider]

Well.....  He was Good Howie.

Sorry for the problem.  Right at the beginning of spring so couldn't be worse.  Even more insulting when it had been nesting at the dealer's all winter.  Sorry man.

[sadunbar]

This is what I encountered on my first ride of the season. Picked up the bike from Utica Harley Davidson earlier today. After their a$$h0!e salesman told me that the head gasket leak was BS and that I was "hyper critical" the following is what I found when I returned home.

Good Howie,

That is a familiar site.  Sorry to see your picture - but the upside is you are a now a member of our illustrious club!  You will have to get bad Howie to show you the secret handshake!

You know, the worst part of the statement by your salesman is I am convinced they actually believe the crap they say is true.  The MOCO goes out of their way to not communicate these type problems to the dealers.  It is damn aggravating that we are viewed as "whiners".

Good luck with whatever and however you decide to deal with your leaking head gasket...    

[Hoist!]

I wasn't gonna say anything about Howie's. I'm glad he did. I get home after getting the call from him, only to find at least 3 more with this today. My last 4 posts now are FTF & FTW posts!!! I'm getting sick of seeing this. Man am I glad I gave up on those greedy bastards and went my own direction. It's almost impossible to do any worse!

Howie, call me when you're ready!

Hoist!

[FNGw/08SERK]

Thanks Don, Scott and Howie. The hardest part is going to be trying to get this repaired PROPERLY. Not only have I not heard from anyone thats had any luck but to make matters worse I am NOT a motorhead. In other words I have no idea WTF to do. Thanks to Neal for putting this site together as I hope it will be my crutch to get me through. Thanks in advance to anyone I drive crazy with the questions that are sure to follow.        

Howie

[Twolanerider]

That's the insult added to the injury for those of you dealing with this. Harley has no solution for you.  You'll be left to endure gaskets or gaskets and cylinders that have proved to be failures as fixes.  And that's the best you can hope for pursuing a warranty repair.  Otherwise you're opening your wallet to prosecute a more evolved repair for a problem that should never have existed in the first place.

[sadunbar]

Howie,

One thing you want to do for sure is open a claim with MOCO customer service.  If you decide to go for a warranty repair, you will want your dealer to contact them and get the "latest" redesigned gaskets for the rebuild.

As you may know, I did not want any part of the temporary "dealer warranty repair" and chose to go my own way with an independent motor shop.

What direction to go is a tough decision, but I feel pretty confident I am past the issue by not using the standard warranty repair.  I don't think many of those that have experienced dealer warranty repair will say that with any confidence.

Scott

[Hoist!]

Howie,

One thing you want to do for sure is open a claim with MOCO customer service.  If you decide to go for a warranty repair, you will want your dealer to contact them and get the "latest" redesigned gaskets for the rebuild.

As you may know, I did not want any part of the temporary "dealer warranty repair" and chose to go my own way with an independent motor shop.

What direction to go is a tough decision, but I feel pretty confident I am past the issue by not using the standard warranty repair.  I don't think many of those that have experienced dealer warranty repair will say that with any confidence.

Scott

That's one option I already gave him Scott. The other two are Scotty at Hillside and Vern at North Shore!

Hoist!

[grc]

The main problem I see with just fixing it yourself, other than the obvious one of spending many thousands extra on what is an overpriced product to begin with, is that each one that doesn't show up on a warranty claim just helps H-D justify their head in the sand response.  Change in the business world is driven by statistics; if the warranty repairs per thousand and cost per repair stats don't reflect a major issue, the folks at the top of the food chain won't force those at the lower end to do their jobs and fix the problem.  I would personally make them try to repair it at least once, just to get it on record.  You never know, this may eventually become a class action and some proof will be necessary for you to participate in any settlement.

Jerry

[Hoist!]

The main problem I see with just fixing it yourself, other than the obvious one of spending many thousands extra on what is an overpriced product to begin with, is that each one that doesn't show up on a warranty claim just helps H-D justify their head in the sand response.  Change in the business world is driven by statistics; if the warranty repairs per thousand and cost per repair stats don't reflect a major issue, the folks at the top of the food chain won't force those at the lower end to do their jobs and fix the problem.  I would personally make them try to repair it at least once, just to get it on record.  You never know, this may eventually become a class action and some proof will be necessary for you to participate in any settlement.

Jerry

Yeah Jerry, but at what cost to put up with all that. The lost time. The breakdowns. Getting towed off the road, if it don't lock up and kill you. The grief. The lost vacations. Putting up with the lies and BS. I love my bike. If others have the patience for all that, more power to em! I just wanna be free to ride my machine.....!

Hoist!

[sadunbar]

The main problem I see with just fixing it yourself, other than the obvious one of spending many thousands extra on what is an overpriced product to begin with, is that each one that doesn't show up on a warranty claim just helps H-D justify their head in the sand response.  Change in the business world is driven by statistics; if the warranty repairs per thousand and cost per repair stats don't reflect a major issue, the folks at the top of the food chain won't force those at the lower end to do their jobs and fix the problem.  I would personally make them try to repair it at least once, just to get it on record.  You never know, this may eventually become a class action and some proof will be necessary for you to participate in any settlement.

Jerry

I took mine to my dealer, documented the problem (including photos of oil running down the side of my cylinder) with the salesman, the service manager and general manager, opened a claim with MOCO Technical Support, set up a conference call between my dealer service manager, general manager and MOCO tech support, followed up the the regional rep., ....  then fixed it myself.  

Unfortunately, none of that mattered with MOCO - cause they still don't acknowledge a problem...apparently right up to Willie G.

I was not willing to let them work on my bike even once - just for the sake of their records....  

[Hoist!]

I took mine to my dealer, documented the problem (including photos of oil running down the side of my cylinder) with the salesman, the service manager and general manager, opened a claim with MOCO Technical Support, set up a conference call between my dealer service manager, general manager and MOCO tech support, followed up the the regional rep., ....  then fixed it myself.  

Unfortunately, none of that mattered with MOCO - cause they still don't acknowledge a problem...apparently right up to Willie G.

I was not willing to let them work on my bike even once - just for the sake of their records....  

Smart move Scott!

Like a dope, I let them document mine TWICE!!!

Then I woke up!

Hoist!

[Chief]

Yeah Jerry, but at what cost to put up with all that. The lost time. The breakdowns. Getting towed off the road, if it don't lock up and kill you. The grief. The lost vacations. Putting up with the lies and BS. I love my bike. If others have the patience for all that, more power to em! I just wanna be free to ride my machine.....!

Hoist!

I'm thinking you're gettin a bit over dramatic her ol boy. Mine has been leaking the second time for about 6,000 miles and I'm still riding it without hesitation. No lockups, no tow truck rides, no lost vacations nothing but 6,000 miles of blotting up some oil every so often. As far as I'm concerned, it's a cosmetic issue that is just an annoyance. YMMV

If I can be of some solace for the good Howie, I haven't heard of any repeat problems after people have gotten the composite gasket. I, along with lots of people on the site, had the -07A gasket installed which then leaked again. So far the un-numbered composite gasket looks to be doing a good job at doing it's job. However, if you have a cylinder with a slipped liner, no gasket will fix that. Hopefully your cylinder(s) are good and you'll be OK with just a gasket.

I'm with Scott and Jerry. Open a call with HD Tech to make sure you're heard and then give your dealer a crack at it but request them to get in touch with HD Tech Services and request a set of the composit gaskets.

Don't feel bad, we're all in the same boat.

[Fired00d]

Howie/Hoist over dramatic??? Say it ain't so.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Hoist!]

I'm thinking you're gettin a bit over dramatic her ol boy.

Howie/Hoist over dramatic??? Say it ain't so.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Maybe a little guys.

But it's been over a year and a half. Same old story. Different experiments. Nothing proven to work. Like I said, you got the patience, more power to ya. I just don't.

Over dramatic AND impatient!!!

Hoist!

[56FLE]

This is what I encoutered on my first ride of the season. Picked up the bike from Utica Harley Davidson earlier today. After their a$$h0!e salesman told me that the head gasket leak was BS and that I was "hyper critical" the following is what I found when I returned home.

Sorry   to here your 08 has Head Gasket problems, I was hoping they would be a bit better then the 07.

How many miles are on your bike? Did you make it to 5K or did it start before the magic mile?

I have had my 08SERK for a week now, going in for the 1K checkup tomorrow. I'm riding about 150 miles or more a day checking out the hill country around Austin for the first time in 16 years so at the rate I am going I'll probably not be able to sign up for the Sedona GTG if my bike is in the shop for head gasket repairs first week in May.   

[Hugh Janis]

G. Howie, I'm terribly sorry you have the leaking head.  Mines still strong with 6,058 miles on it.  I didn't check it today.  I'm with others, get it fixed under warranty after opening a complaint with customer service.  I hope it's fixed for our "growler" lunch!

[LRebel]

FNG Howie,

Sorry & Welcome to the club.

I am afraid that with the warmer weather we are going to start hearing about these problems more frequently

[Black Diamond]

Howie (FNG)

Sorry you joined us. I know the choice is not an easy one as I just went thru it. Make sure you call Tech people and start a file. After that it a matter of what you can afford and what you will put up with. Best of luck with her. 

JW

[FNGw/08SERK]

My apologies for ommiting the SERK's milage - it's 2600miles. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to share your input. I'll let you know what I come up with as soon as I know. Hoping not to miss too much road time  Thanks again.    Howie

[miker]

Just ride it more...Its only a leak!

[FNGw/08SERK]

Cleaned 'er up yesterday and took 'er out to try to get a handle on the rate of oil leakage. Appears at this point to be relatively small amount of leakage. What risks do I expose this motor to by continuing to ride her besides the obvious loss of oil?

Thanks,
Howie

[Hugh Janis]

you'll have a well oiled gasket. 

When it's fixed, make sure that the cylinder liner is checked for movement (I don't know if that was recommended already)

[Chief]

Cleaned 'er up yesterday and took 'er out to try to get a handle on the rate of oil leakage. Appears at this point to be relatively small amount of leakage. What risks do I expose this motor to by continuing to ride her besides the obvious loss of oil?

Thanks,
Howie

So you're concerned about what will become of your leaking Harley if you continue to ride it? You'll just perpetuate the stereotype that Harley's leak.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[HogBreath]

Sorry to hear of the head gasket leak Good Howie! (dang, I love saying that).

You have several options. If you don't want to spend $$ on her, I'd recommend letting her leak until it's really a major nuisance. When it's leaking bad enough to really bug ya, take it back for the dealer and let them replace the head gasket. I agree with Scott, if after the warranty is expired, the head gaskets are still leaking, they should continue to repair at no cost to you since it's an ongoing problem that hasn't been cured. You MAY could keep doing that for 40,000 miles w/o spending a penny.

I'm facing that same thing on mine right now. The head gasket is just one problem. It comes down to how much do you want to spend to correct the problems? What is the value to you if you break down on a road trip? Nothing is a certainity other than death. My buddy mav's 103 crapped out at CHL. He planned this trip months in advance. He got two days off work to take this trip. The bike crapped out the second day, the farthest from home he could be on tis trip. I don't know about you, but my days off work, with a ride planned are precious to me. They are far and few between. Mav lost three days of enjoying his vacation. He rented a bike for one day, $175. His brother came from Chattoonaga and picked him and Pam up. his son came down from Kentucky to pick him up and drive him home. then he had to trailer down 400 miles to get his bike. Then he's had to take off work today to get the bike to Abernathy's. Fairly costly chain of events, not counting the mental anquish.

Are you going to keep the bike? I love my bike other than the engine issues. It's a keeper.

I think I'm actually trying to convince myself to spend money on a rebuild or a new engine.

[iski]

Getting this leak fixed, at least the first time, under a dealer warranty is advisable.  If there is a class action suit against the MoCo on this issue, it will be better documented plus if it is leaking a second (or third, etc.) time it indicates they did not fix the problem correctly, for whatever reason. 

Sucks to be on a long trip with vacation days burning away as Ken posted, & have a bike breakdown.  Worse if later on a legal settlement is potentially negated in part by non-HD work on the problem - first occurrence.  Recouping financial loss is not what we really want - we want a bike with a motor that is reliable & does not leak. Not too much to ask, considering.


Much empathy for you who have experienced this leak problem.  I check mine weekly & so far it's ok. 

[FNGw/08SERK]

So you're concerned about what will become of your leaking Harley if you continue to ride it? You'll just perpetuate the stereotype that Harley's leak.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Now that thers's some funny chit!! 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Sorry to hear of the head gasket leak Good Howie! (dang, I love saying that).

You have several options. If you don't want to spend $$ on her, I'd recommend letting her leak until it's really a major nuisance. When it's leaking bad enough to really bug ya, take it back for the dealer and let them replace the head gasket. I agree with Scott, if after the warranty is expired, the head gaskets are still leaking, they should continue to repair at no cost to you since it's an ongoing problem that hasn't been cured. You MAY could keep doing that for 40,000 miles w/o spending a penny.

I'm facing that same thing on mine right now. The head gasket is just one problem. It comes down to how much do you want to spend to correct the problems? What is the value to you if you break down on a road trip? Nothing is a certainity other than death. My buddy mav's 103 crapped out at CHL. He planned this trip months in advance. He got two days off work to take this trip. The bike crapped out the second day, the farthest from home he could be on tis trip. I don't know about you, but my days off work, with a ride planned are precious to me. They are far and few between. Mav lost three days of enjoying his vacation. He rented a bike for one day, $175. His brother came from Chattoonaga and picked him and Pam up. his son came down from Kentucky to pick him up and drive him home. then he had to trailer down 400 miles to get his bike. Then he's had to take off work today to get the bike to Abernathy's. Fairly costly chain of events, not counting the mental anquish.

Are you going to keep the bike? I love my bike other than the engine issues. It's a keeper.

I think I'm actually trying to convince myself to spend money on a rebuild or a new engine.

Thanks for the input Ken and yes I would like to hold on to the scoot. If I can afford it and if I have thick skin enough to take all the ball busting I get for spending this much on a leaker 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Getting this leak fixed, at least the first time, under a dealer warranty is advisable.  If there is a class action suit against the MoCo on this issue, it will be better documented plus if it is leaking a second (or third, etc.) time it indicates they did not fix the problem correctly, for whatever reason. 

Sucks to be on a long trip with vacation days burning away as Ken posted, & have a bike breakdown.  Worse if later on a legal settlement is potentially negated in part by non-HD work on the problem - first occurrence.  Recouping financial loss is not what we really want - we want a bike with a motor that is reliable & does not leak. Not too much to ask, considering.


Much empathy for you who have experienced this leak problem.  I check mine weekly & so far it's ok. 

Wise words Mike, thanks!!

[Hugh Janis]

this thread got me nervous again and I went and looked.  Nope, still OK.  Good luck G. Howie.  BTW, since this happened to you, you've moved up a couple ranks.  It's time to remove the 'FN' from your screen name.

[FNGw/08SERK]

this thread got me nervous again and I went and looked.  Nope, still OK.  Good luck G. Howie.  BTW, since this happened to you, you've moved up a couple ranks.  It's time to remove the 'FN' from your screen name.

I was thinking the same thing Jim. Why don't you start a poll     

[Hoist!]

I was thinking the same thing Jim. Why don't you start a poll     

Lose the FN! You broke your cherry!

Hoist!

[FNGw/08SERK]

Spoke with the MOCO. Company line is... the problem is gasket material! Cylinder liners and crank runout are rare. I'm waiting for dealer to recieve the holy grail of gaskets. Got my fingers crossed. 

[bikerboy53]

Gw/08SERK,

Sorry to hear your bike has developed the "dreaded leak". It's interesting that they say cylinder liners and crank runout are rare.  Maybe they have a better handle on things now, or maybe it's just that I have a "pre-factory shutdown" '07 SERK. Mine has had two sets of cylinders replaced, and one crankshaft so far. I'm still waiting for a set of the new "miracle" gaskets myself. Maybe this time it will actually be fixed... 

BikerBoy

PS -As you can tell by my greeting, I vote for you to drop the FN (Fairly New -or sumpthin like that) from your screen name too. 

[BalDeagle]

Hey Howie - guess we talked a little about this  in our PM's, but it's interesting to read everyone's feelings about the issue. As Chief says "It's a leak" and i guess if nothing else is wrong that is all it is. I discovered my leak last week and then went and did a 500 mile weekend on it - and all I had was "A liitle oil to mop up at the end of it".

The bike has gone in today for it's "fix" and I have also asked them to ensure they check the liners for movement or expansion, check the valve clearances and the Crank run out. I'm hoping for a clean bill of health in all the other departments and that my new composite gasket will do the trick.

Ken mentioned losing vacation time through breakdowns and this is one of my biggest fears - as you know we are coming over to the USA in the summer for a five and half week, 7,000 mile trip and a bike breakdown would be a disaster as our schedule is fairly tight. Here's hoping that this current repair stays tight and that the bike runs through the holiday with no problems. Having said that my riding buddy has just taken delivery of a new 08 SERK so it could be him that ends up with the problem, let's hope not.

Nige

[sadunbar]

Spoke with the MOCO. Company line is... the problem is gasket material! Cylinder liners and crank runout are rare. I'm waiting for dealer to recieve the holy grail of gaskets. Got my fingers crossed. 

So, is that admittance that a head gasket leak is not rare?  Whoever came up with that line ought to run for some type of political office...  That is a politicians way of admitting what they had previously been denying if I ever heard it...

[Hoist!]

Hmmm, title change! Don't like the 'virgin" thing, huh GH?




Or the FNG!

Hoist!

[FNGw/08SERK]

Hmmm, title change! Don't like the 'virgin" thing, huh GH?




Or the FNG!

Hoist!

By POPULAR DEMAND 

[Chief]

By POPULAR DEMAND 

I like it.

[SBB]

I like it.

DITTO!

[Hoist!]

I love it! Fits perfectly! There's only room for 1 Evil Howie here anyway! And I got that title all sewn up!

Hoist!

[bikerboy53]

By POPULAR DEMAND 

Woo Hoo! 

[Hugh Janis]

Wow, that took me like 2 minutes to figure out (after 8 beers out with the guys).  I thought I was missing something.  Congratulations GH.  I like it! 

[Black Diamond]

Good choice on your handle GH!

JW

[jerjohnson00]

Add another member to the club!  last September I took mine in to my local dealer and they did the gasket replacment work.  I rode if for about another month before it got too cold to ride (WI) and put her away.  I just got her out again this past week, and already notice it's leaking again.  There is another (larger) dealer about a half hour away.  I'm wondering if I should go back to my local one and have them re-fix it, or try going to a larger shop that may know a bit more about it.  The first time I found out it was leaking was on a 4 hour ride with my wife on the back.  Oil blew all over her legs and shoes.  Gave her an excuse to get new clothes.  I think the MOCO should pay me back for that, and fix my F-ing motor right the first GD time! 

[Black Diamond]

jerjohnson00

Sorry to hear you have joined us. I wish this was one club we could say the membership is closed, no new members allowed. What'd ya think MoCo. Want to close this club down for us?

JW

[REGGAB]

Jeez, Howie.  That blows.  Hopefully this gets fixed before long.  Good to see you've updated your handle.   

[FNGw/08SERK]

Jeez, Howie.  That blows.  Hopefully this gets fixed before long.  Good to see you've updated your handle.   

Thanks Henry, dealer called this afternoon. He has been told by the Moco that he will recieve the not so secret head gasket in a "week". He doesn't want to tear into it until he has the parts. Just trying to keep the faith 

[bikerboy53]

Add another member to the club!  ...  I'm wondering if I should go back to my local one and have them re-fix it, or try going to a larger shop that may know a bit more about it.  ...

Jerjohnson -I've had my bike "fixed" at a big dealer and at the smaller local one. The results were the same at both places, and the quality of the workmanship was no different. (Not really bad, but not really great either!) I think it's up to the MoCo to figure out what's wrong and then make the changes to the parts -then the dealers should be able to fix the problems with our bikes. 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Any reason a bike would require a "retune" on the dyno after being torn down for gasket replacements?? Just an FYI dealer says new cylinder gasket revision available.

[Fired00d]

It should not require a retune as long as you're putting the same (new) parts back in.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[FNGw/08SERK]

Just returned home with the SERK. She has new gaskets and she ain't spittin' no more. Now to keep the faith..... Praying to the leak Gods as we speak      Hoping for a trouble free future will keep you posted. Let's go ridin' 

Howie

[iski]

Great news G-Howie!  Ride it, ride it ride it!!   

I've been working too much to ride mine much but will make up for that this weekend with any luck.

Hope this one is "The Fix" but still wondering what may be in store.......

[skreminegul07]

Any reason a bike would require a "retune" on the dyno after being torn down for gasket replacements?? Just an FYI dealer says new cylinder gasket revision available.

Newer than the one we know now?  Jeez.

[FNGw/08SERK]

Newer than the one we know now?  Jeez.

Bike went in Monday morning, dealer had preordered headgaskets and seals ahead to save on down time. Dealer explained to me that he was contacted Monday afternoon with new "cylinder gaskets" that HD would overnight.  Don't shoot the messenger! Thats his story and he's sticking too it.

Howie

[Hoist!]

GH is talking about cylinder base gasket O-rings, not head gaskets. He told me they used the new "B" head gaskets, but were overnighted new base gaskets for the job too.

Hoist!

[BalDeagle]

Mine is all fixed up now too (we hope).

Going to do about a thousand miles on her this weekend - so fingers crossed.

Nige

[Black Diamond]

Nige and GH

I hope you both have the best of luck with the new gaskets, either end. It's in all our best interst that HD gets this straighten out! Keep us posted.

JW

[iski]

Mine is all fixed up now too (we hope).

Going to do about a thousand miles on her this weekend - so fingers crossed.

Nige

Best of luck to you Nige!  1,000 miles should be a lot of fun! 

[Rooster452]

Like some others I decided to take matters into my own hands. My Maxine keeps going no matter what.....

[FNGw/08SERK]

Ok I've had the SERK back for a few days with new gaskets. Wish me luck. 

[Chief]

Ok I've had the SERK back for a few days with new gaskets. Wish me luck. 

May you liners stay in place and your leaks never return.

[FNGw/08SERK]

May you liners stay in place and your leaks never return.

Not sure of liner stability probability but fingers are crossed. At the very least I'm hoping to get through this riding season.   

[Chief]

Not sure of liner stability porbability but fingers are crossed. At the very least I'm hoping to get through this riding season.   

If the 07B's are inclined to fail, hopefully they will fail as gracefully as my 07A's have, which failed last summer. I still haven't gotten them replaced and don't intend to until we see what's coming soon.

[iski]

Howie, may your oil stay where it's supposed to & may you gaskets remain dry on the outside.   

Only 400 miles on my 07Bs but so far so good.  Will put a thousand plus on the ride to MB & back in a couple of weeks.

[Hugh Janis]

Good luck GH!

[Black Diamond]

I'm pulling for you G Howie. I got a couple extra cylinders laying around if you need em 

JW

[Rooster452]

Ok I've had the SERK back for a few days with new gaskets. Wish me luck. 

All the luck to you brother!

[BalDeagle]

Nige and GH

I hope you both have the best of luck with the new gaskets, either end. It's in all our best interst that HD gets this straighten out! Keep us posted.

JW

Put 1100 hard miles on the scoot (2 up and fully loaded) last weekend with no ill effects. Had a 5,000 service this week (actually 5,600) and everything is sound.

Here's hoping for a trouble free future.

Nige