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Author Topic: Top end advice  (Read 6118 times)

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Schwabie

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Top end advice
« on: March 25, 2017, 09:01:01 PM »

  Hello all. I'm looking for a little guidance in repairing my 99 FXR3. It has 16k miles on it and the front cylinder started leaking pretty badly. I'm close to taking the rocker covers off now. *Compression on both cylinders cold read 110 PSI. I'm not too familiar with the bike and I'd like to ask if there is a short list of recommendations that you guys would advise to follow - Gasket thicknesses and sealers, brands, upgrades...
Thank you very much, Gary
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Mr D

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2017, 10:56:53 PM »

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ltank

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 10:20:06 PM »

Head gaskets are easily replaced. Remove front pope and carb. Remove top rocker box then the middle section.  Get a Real Harley  Service Manual.  Heads bolts need to be in a certain order and amounts of turns. You might get away with just the head gasket. But. The front cylinder base gasket is a weak spot particularly the left front area close to the oil port.
If you replace that , pull the front cylinder. You will need new piston rings, hone the cylinder and check the top end. Remove any carbon build up
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 11:57:09 AM »

Ok, thank you.
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johnsachs

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 06:48:38 PM »

It's possible a stud is pulling out of the case.
I would NEVER change a head gasket on a Harley Davidson without replacing the base gasket at the same time. I would also use quality head and base gaskets like Cometic. If so, this will require replacing the gaskets on the rear cylinder too.
Use Cometic torque values listed on their head gasket packs.
Unless the rings are bad, leak down engine before removing the heads to check that, there's no reason to change them.
Don't be misled by the myth if the cylinders come off, you need to hone cylinders, and replace the rings. It's total BS.  >:(
John
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 08:29:49 PM »

Ok, thanks. *The more that I am reading around about engine mods,  the more tempting it is to hop it up a little. Cam, head work, maybe higher comp pistons. But...the bike is totally stock (other than 1 ugly hyper charger air cleaner) and I'd really like to have everything visible kept that way. Is it possible to use the stock pipes along with some engine mods, or would the stock pipes totally negate everything else?
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johnsachs

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 06:53:51 PM »

The stock pipes won't help.
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J.D.

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 09:14:16 PM »

I'd first clean it really well then watch to see exactly where it is leaking from.  Might just be the rocker covers leaking oil and running down and not the head gasket at all.
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 05:11:23 PM »

@ John, I'm about to pull the heads. Is there something to look for before I loosen the head bolts that might indicate a stud pulling out of the case? (Besides it being obviously loose.) And if 1 does seem loose then should I try and torque it now to see if it is holding in the case?
*I caught the bug and did decide to make a few mild changes to it. Got a Big Sucker stage 1 to replace the hypercharger (I'll need a cover if anyone has a lead on 1.), a stage 1 carb tuning kit, an EV27 cam with a Torrington bearing, and Cometic gaskets with .030" head gaskets. Is there clearance, or is it smart, to mill the heads down about .060"? I've also read that SE II slip ons work well with a mild build like this. Is that true or should I look for a complete exhaust system?
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J.D.

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 05:36:57 PM »

IMO the stock header is fine for what your doing but a set of higher flow mufflers will let it breathe and bark a little bit.
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 05:56:23 PM »

Nice. I'm trying to stay on good terms with someone that thinks a new couch set is more important than new bike parts. As if! Any suggestions on mufflers? Or is that about like debating oil?
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J.D.

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 06:33:58 PM »

Good analogy.  I'd suggest you make sure it is not a straight-through design and has some back pressure in the baffle design.  Then it's just what sounds good to you.
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johnsachs

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 07:12:41 PM »

@ John, I'm about to pull the heads. Is there something to look for before I loosen the head bolts that might indicate a stud pulling out of the case? (Besides it being obviously loose.) And if 1 does seem loose then should I try and torque it now to see if it is holding in the case?
*I caught the bug and did decide to make a few mild changes to it. Got a Big Sucker stage 1 to replace the hypercharger (I'll need a cover if anyone has a lead on 1.), a stage 1 carb tuning kit, an EV27 cam with a Torrington bearing, and Cometic gaskets with .030" head gaskets. Is there clearance, or is it smart, to mill the heads down about .060"? I've also read that SE II slip ons work well with a mild build like this. Is that true or should I look for a complete exhaust system?

If a stud is pulling, I wouldn't aggravate it by trying to tighten it.
When the pushrods are out of the engine, heads and cylinders still on, put air pressure in the spark plug holes, and listen for the possibility of air leaking around the head gasket, exhaust, or carb. Keep your eyes away from the carb just in case.
When you get the cylinders off, measure the installed height of the studs, and look for any burrs around the stud to case area, which may be a sign of movement. I install studs to 15 ft. lbs. with a ball bearing between the head bolt and stud. You may want to see if they hold with that torque.
John
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 07:14:39 PM by johnsachs »
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 07:30:56 PM »

Thank you very much John.
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Ridgerunr

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 08:18:59 PM »

Listen to John.  :2vrolijk_21:
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 08:24:10 PM »

Picked up a shiny pair of SE II slip ons.  :) The last thing that I'm still not sure about is milling the heads. Is .060" too much to take off combined with the .030" head gaskets? Will there be enough valve clearance if I keep the stock lifters and push rods? And if it all the milling comes off of the heads and not the cylinders could it create a pre-ignition problem?
Thanks again for the input,
Gary
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 08:27:21 PM »

OK, thanks Ridgerunr. I've got to settle down and do some investigating before loosening the heads.
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Schwabie

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 06:01:33 PM »

Rolling again!
It seems to run and sound great. I did go ahead and mill the heads .050". That combined with .030" head gaskets made the compression jump up from 110 to 150, but that also resulted in the push rods being a touch too long, so I got adjustables. Feels good to have it on the road again. Thanks for all of the advice!
Gary
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MCE

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2018, 03:06:33 PM »

Good analogy.  I'd suggest you make sure it is not a straight-through design and has some back pressure in the baffle design.  Then it's just what sounds good to you.

A little late to the party here, but:
"Back pressure" is an old wives tale. The only thing back pressure does is increase pumping losses, which is
counter-productive to making power.
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J.D.

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2018, 03:10:19 PM »

Whatever the explanation, mufflers with some sort of baffle typically make more power, at least lower end torque, than straight-through "drag pipes" on a typical Harley.  YMMV.
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MCE

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Re: Top end advice
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2018, 07:19:29 PM »

It has more to do with dampening the sound waves (acoustic pulses) that get reflected back toward the port if left unchecked.
(Ideally, you don't want any back pressure) If the reflected wave arrives at the wrong time (like they do at low speed) it upsets the
gas flow during overlap. That's what kills the low end TQ.

Baffles will dampen these waves and circumvent some of their detrimental affects. Back pressure will only increase pumping losses and
rob power.  2 cents...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 11:04:22 PM by MCE Performance »
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