www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes => Topic started by: Texas 103 on February 15, 2009, 09:45:33 AM
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Just received this regarding ABS.. Good Stuff......Greg
:coolblue:With the Harley ABS 09 version you should get all your stopping power from the front brake. You have to learn to do a full panic stop with front brake only to get the shortest stop. It takes some practice because it is hard to get your brain to allow you to do a full shut down of your front brake at 50 MPH. Your rear brake should only get input caused by inertia driving your toes forward on your brake pedal. With the ABS you can do a full panic stop on sand, dirt, or even gravel with front brake only. We should all practice that.
For those of us with 08 models you need to go back to the dealer and get the 09 download to your 08 ABS. The 07 and 08 ABS was set to cut in too early and the ABS activated while you are still in a controlled stop. The result was longer stopping time. The 09 download was released to the dealers on Dec 10th of 2008 and is a free warranty download. Harley doesn't advertise the upgrade but it is a must for the kind of riding we all do.
The guys that teach the ERC have to teach for all bikes and their mandates are different. Harley ABS really requires some different information to get the most out of the system. You really don't want to apply equal pressure during your stops, you transition front to rear and get your hands off the front brake at walking speed if you don't want to learn how to pick up your bike. Also, making a stop shorter by 6 or 8 feet doesn't sound like much unless that same 6 or 8 feet is taken up by a Dodge pickup loaded with bricks.
Feel free to share this if you wish.
This is from a Run for the Wall Road Guard buddy of mine that trains with the motor Cops in Tuscon..Greg
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Good article.
I always thought (and was trained back in the 80's) that ABS works "after" lockup.
The article states that the system can determine the "verge of lockup".
I think this is wrong or at least misleading.
Having worked on the systems since they first became available on Chrysler products, it by far the best improvement to autos since the air bag.
Being optional on a bike would be a "must have" option for me.
Now if they would only tie the front and rear together like a car (and having it selectable)
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Thats the type of info Harley should include besides the dvd they give you.Also the dealers should explain this also..almost all cars have abs now ,almost as I can speak for GM vehicles
People are only afraid of what they don't understaind
jon
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So this goes against the info in the manual that says to apply both brakes at full force???
Scott
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Thanks for the info guess i should drop by the shop and get the down load.
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Thanks for the article. Good read! I can tell you that I'll never buy another bike without ABS. I love the system on Nemo.
I'm confused by your statement to use only the front brake... Yes, I understand trusting the ABS and to hammer the front brake and let the ABS handle it. AS LONG AS YOU'RE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. But I can find nothing, either in searching the net or in my years of experience to tell me not hammer the rear break as well. Most of the stopping power comes from the front wheel. But not all... so why not let the rear grab what it can? I also understand about part of the reason the front handles so much of the stopping is because of the forward weight shift durring braking. This will still happen with the rear brake engaged. My final argument is that if using only the front brake was beneficial in an ABS equiped bike, they'd eliminate linked braking systems, or at least have them engage front only in an ABS activated stop.
So why not both brakes?
Ride Safe,
J-Carr
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Just received this regarding ABS.. Good Stuff......Greg
:coolblue:With the Harley ABS 09 version you should get all your stopping power from the front brake. You have to learn to do a full panic stop with front brake only to get the shortest stop. It takes some practice because it is hard to get your brain to allow you to do a full shut down of your front brake at 50 MPH. Your rear brake should only get input caused by inertia driving your toes forward on your brake pedal. With the ABS you can do a full panic stop on sand, dirt, or even gravel with front brake only. We should all practice that.
For those of us with 08 models you need to go back to the dealer and get the 09 download to your 08 ABS. The 07 and 08 ABS was set to cut in too early and the ABS activated while you are still in a controlled stop. The result was longer stopping time. The 09 download was released to the dealers on Dec 10th of 2008 and is a free warranty download. Harley doesn't advertise the upgrade but it is a must for the kind of riding we all do.
The guys that teach the ERC have to teach for all bikes and their mandates are different. Harley ABS really requires some different information to get the most out of the system. You really don't want to apply equal pressure during your stops, you transition front to rear and get your hands off the front brake at walking speed if you don't want to learn how to pick up your bike. Also, making a stop shorter by 6 or 8 feet doesn't sound like much unless that same 6 or 8 feet is taken up by a Dodge pickup loaded with bricks.
Feel free to share this if you wish.
This is from a Run for the Wall Road Guard buddy of mine that trains with the motor Cops in Tuscon..Greg
So, does this apply to 09 models or not? The download was released to dealers on 12/10/08 and I had my 09 for over a month by then. Was this something not on the earlier built 09's or something I can ignore?
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Greg, great information. Thank you! :2vrolijk_21:
GK
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I also took delivery of my 09 Orangecrush SERG before 12/08 does it have the proper download? The ABS braking does seam different than what on my 08 casper SEUC.
Bruce
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Hi
The local dealer here in Germany states that what they can find states that the update is only if you are using Michelin tires. If using Dunlop tires the update is not needed.
If this is not correct can someone point to a reference or buletin that I can show the dealer?
Thanks,
Megavolt17
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Just received this regarding ABS.. Good Stuff......Greg
:coolblue:With the Harley ABS 09 version you should get all your stopping power from the front brake. You have to learn to do a full panic stop with front brake only to get the shortest stop. It takes some practice because it is hard to get your brain to allow you to do a full shut down of your front brake at 50 MPH. Your rear brake should only get input caused by inertia driving your toes forward on your brake pedal. With the ABS you can do a full panic stop on sand, dirt, or even gravel with front brake only. We should all practice that.
For those of us with 08 models you need to go back to the dealer and get the 09 download to your 08 ABS. The 07 and 08 ABS was set to cut in too early and the ABS activated while you are still in a controlled stop. The result was longer stopping time. The 09 download was released to the dealers on Dec 10th of 2008 and is a free warranty download. Harley doesn't advertise the upgrade but it is a must for the kind of riding we all do.
The guys that teach the ERC have to teach for all bikes and their mandates are different. Harley ABS really requires some different information to get the most out of the system. You really don't want to apply equal pressure during your stops, you transition front to rear and get your hands off the front brake at walking speed if you don't want to learn how to pick up your bike. Also, making a stop shorter by 6 or 8 feet doesn't sound like much unless that same 6 or 8 feet is taken up by a Dodge pickup loaded with bricks.
Feel free to share this if you wish.
This is from a Run for the Wall Road Guard buddy of mine that trains with the motor Cops in Tuscon..Greg
Interesting. I've saw posts on other forums that talks about the ABS activating way to early, while still in a controlled stop. I did several panic stops from 40-50 mph and didn't experience that and I was wondering if it was being activated at different intervals on different bikes. Now we know.
I can say that the bike stops so quick from 50 mph that you better be ready to throw your feet down very quick, too, once it does get stopped. It all happens very, very quick.
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Just received this regarding ABS.. Good Stuff......Greg
:coolblue:With the Harley ABS 09 version you should get all your stopping power from the front brake. You have to learn to do a full panic stop with front brake only to get the shortest stop. It takes some practice because it is hard to get your brain to allow you to do a full shut down of your front brake at 50 MPH. Your rear brake should only get input caused by inertia driving your toes forward on your brake pedal. With the ABS you can do a full panic stop on sand, dirt, or even gravel with front brake only. We should all practice that.
For those of us with 08 models you need to go back to the dealer and get the 09 download to your 08 ABS. The 07 and 08 ABS was set to cut in too early and the ABS activated while you are still in a controlled stop. The result was longer stopping time. The 09 download was released to the dealers on Dec 10th of 2008 and is a free warranty download. Harley doesn't advertise the upgrade but it is a must for the kind of riding we all do.
The guys that teach the ERC have to teach for all bikes and their mandates are different. Harley ABS really requires some different information to get the most out of the system. You really don't want to apply equal pressure during your stops, you transition front to rear and get your hands off the front brake at walking speed if you don't want to learn how to pick up your bike. Also, making a stop shorter by 6 or 8 feet doesn't sound like much unless that same 6 or 8 feet is taken up by a Dodge pickup loaded with bricks.
Feel free to share this if you wish.
This is from a Run for the Wall Road Guard buddy of mine that trains with the motor Cops in Tuscon..Greg
I think this info is just wrong. The whole idea of ABS is that in an emergency you can brake as hard as you need to - both front and rear - without the fear of locking a wheel and losing control.
Even though most of the braking is done by the front wheel due to inertia, the rear brake does reduce braking distance and should be used.
I think this is a perpetuation of a myth from when CBS first came out on the Honda VFRs. Some folks felt that too much pressure on the rear brake would cause the front brake to lock and lose control. It wasn't true, and even if it was the Harley system is not CBS.
Until I get better info than "something said by a friend of a friend" I'm going to do it the way Harley says - use both brakes.
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Hi
The local dealer here in Germany states that what they can find states that the update is only if you are using Michelin tires. If using Dunlop tires the update is not needed.
If this is not correct can someone point to a reference or buletin that I can show the dealer?
Thanks,
Megavolt17
My local dealer said the same thing that it was only necessary if you sat on Michelins.WTF?