www.CVOHARLEY.com
Custom Vehicle Discussions => CVO™ Softail® Deluxe => Topic started by: FLH91 on September 24, 2014, 03:54:13 PM
-
Hello All, My wife's bike "sputters" with the onset of a heavy rain. It only does this when the rain first starts and if she accelerates moderate to hard. (while passing a car for example). Once she has been riding in the rain for a while, the bike runs good. She has the stock air cleaner and runs with the rain sock on. MY CVO RGC runs fine while riding next to her. The dealer said "thats normal" and the rain socks aren't very good at keeping all the rain out. I do realize the Deluxe does not have a fairing or lowers but seriously? She can't ride her bike in the rain without it sputtering??
Is this happening to anyone else?
Any ideas to resolve it?
My first thought is blocking the front part of the air cleaner with a piece of plastic where rain is most likely getting in. (Only while its raining of course).
Thanks in advance!
FLH91
-
I rode in torential rain in France and had no problems so I would suggest that there is a problem.
-
Hello All, My wife's bike "sputters" with the onset of a heavy rain. It only does this when the rain first starts and if she accelerates moderate to hard. (while passing a car for example). Once she has been riding in the rain for a while, the bike runs good. She has the stock air cleaner and runs with the rain sock on. MY CVO RGC runs fine while riding next to her. The dealer said "thats normal" and the rain socks aren't very good at keeping all the rain out. I do realize the Deluxe does not have a fairing or lowers but seriously? She can't ride her bike in the rain without it sputtering??
Is this happening to anyone else?
Any ideas to resolve it?
My first thought is blocking the front part of the air cleaner with a piece of plastic where rain is most likely getting in. (Only while its raining of course).
Thanks in advance!
FLH91
Utterly ridiculous comment from your dealer. I'd go back to the dealer and again describe the symptoms. State the symptoms are a safety issue. They ask them to put their diagnosis of "it's normal" in writing. When they won't put this diagnosis in writing, tell them to fix it. And, contact MOCO customer service. Again describe the problem as a safety issue. Ask for their assistance in resolving your issue. Ask for a case number. Ask them to contact the dealer.
-
I like the "safety" side of it when working with the dealer. I'll try it.
-
First problem is that you apparently have the wrong dealer
-
I am shocked about the crap some dealers tell. I had 400mls of heavy rain going down to the European Bike Week this year and expected some kind of problem as a result of all the water coming from everywhere. Surprisingly nothing happened even to my buddies bikes a 10 yr. old Springer and two 11yr. old Fat Boys. So whatever your dealer is saying is bullchit...
This is truly a safety issue and must be resolved quickly. The final inspection before delivery for the CVOs seem to be the problem. Whether the dealer reacts or not I think you should write a letter to HD customer service.
Keep us informed...
-
Utterly ridiculous comment from your dealer. I'd go back to the dealer and again describe the symptoms. State the symptoms are a safety issue. They ask them to put their diagnosis of "it's normal" in writing. When they won't put this diagnosis in writing, tell them to fix it. And, contact MOCO customer service. Again describe the problem as a safety issue. Ask for their assistance in resolving your issue. Ask for a case number. Ask them to contact the dealer.
This---------------^ >:(
-
Hello All, My wife's bike "sputters" with the onset of a heavy rain. It only does this when the rain first starts and if she accelerates moderate to hard. (while passing a car for example). Once she has been riding in the rain for a while, the bike runs good. She has the stock air cleaner and runs with the rain sock on. MY CVO RGC runs fine while riding next to her. The dealer said "thats normal" and the rain socks aren't very good at keeping all the rain out. I do realize the Deluxe does not have a fairing or lowers but seriously? She can't ride her bike in the rain without it sputtering??
Is this happening to anyone else?
Any ideas to resolve it?
My first thought is blocking the front part of the air cleaner with a piece of plastic where rain is most likely getting in. (Only while its raining of course).
Thanks in advance!
FLH91
My Wife also has a deluxe and we have ridden way to many miles in rain and down pours.....she as not had this problem. The bike does have an S&S stage 1 air filter. Not sure if yours is stock or could be an issue is the filter get saturated with rain.
Know this is not much help.
Good Luck
-
The motorcycle was sold with an exposed element air cleaner, and there is no requirement by H-D that people who buy this type of bike must refrain from riding in the rain. So IMHO Harley doesn't get a "get out of jail free card" if riding in the rain causes the bike to miss, sputter, or not run correctly. Even if it was "normal", and I don't believe it occurs in the majority of such bikes and is therefore NOT normal, it isn't acceptable. The dealership gave you the typical BS answer so many of them do, most likely because they are (pick one or more):
1. Ignorant
2. Lazy
3. Ignorant and Lazy
Take the advice given by several others so far; contact the MoCo Customer Service department, let them know what's going on, and mention that when this occurs it constitutes a safety concern to you and your wife. Don't accept the same BS response the dealership gave you.
Jerry
-
Alright, I will be the odd man out here. And this is not about what is normal or what a dealer says, I am only sharing my experience.
With 59k+ of riding on my '11 FLTRUSE, I have ridden in heavy rain on more than one occasion. I did have an experience riding through Missouri of a torrential downpour. I was going uphill and the engine started to sputter and choke out. Not a good feeling with semi-trucks on your tail. I got through it and things got better on more level road and as the rain got lighter. That might have been due to a crappy dyno or just way too much downpour but I know that the ventilator got real wet and I didn't have the hair net on it.
I have never had a reoccurence and I have a proper dyno on the beast now.
DH
-
The motorcycle was sold with an exposed element air cleaner, and there is no requirement by H-D that people who buy this type of bike must refrain from riding in the rain. So IMHO Harley doesn't get a "get out of jail free card" if riding in the rain causes the bike to miss, sputter, or not run correctly. Even if it was "normal", and I don't believe it occurs in the majority of such bikes and is therefore NOT normal, it isn't acceptable. The dealership gave you the typical BS answer so many of them do, most likely because they are (pick one or more):
1. Ignorant
2. Lazy
3. Ignorant and Lazy
Take the advice given by several others so far; contact the MoCo Customer Service department, let them know what's going on, and mention that when this occurs it constitutes a safety concern to you and your wife. Don't accept the same BS response the dealership gave you.
Jerry
I'll pick 1, 2 and 3... :2vrolijk_21:
Dealership service department managers and technicians count on their customers having no mechanical aptitude... Once questioned by someone who has obvious skills, most of them (except for the most arrogant) fold. Hopefully if the OP goes back to the dealer and presses the issue, they'll reconsider their position and fix the bike. But if not, just keep elevating the problem both with the dealership and with the MOCO. Like faulty ignition switches turning a car off in traffic, a bike stumbling in traffic is most certainly a safety issue. Someone at high enough level to do something will eventually recognize this and understand the liability. Especially if you keep pointing it out to them, and especially if the problem is documented with MOCO customer service... Once documented, if your wife suffered an accident because of the problem, I expect you would do well in the legal system.
-
Update: I talked to MoCo customer service and they said almost the same thing. That the rain socks are not 100% rain proof and this could be a normal condition depending on the rainfall. The MoCo is paying for the diagnostic fee the dealer was trying to charge me ($95). They also said I should maybe try to take it to a different dealer and see if someone else can figure it out. Not happy but at least I'm not paying for for zero results. Still BS…….
FLH91
-
Update: I talked to MoCo customer service and they said almost the same thing. That the rain socks are not 100% rain proof and this could be a normal condition depending on the rainfall. The MoCo is paying for the diagnostic fee the dealer was trying to charge me ($95). They also said I should maybe try to take it to a different dealer and see if someone else can figure it out. Not happy but at least I'm not paying for for zero results. Still BS…….
FLH91
Man oh man, you got to talk to a real idiot didn't you? First it's "normal", but if you take it to a different dealer maybe they could "figure it out". Figure what out? If it's the way it's supposed to be (normal), then there isn't anything to figure out.
It's easy to see where the dealership guys get some of the BS they throw around. The MoCo's own idiots spew the same chit. I would suggest you call again and tell the idiot you want to talk to a manager, but there again who's to say the manager would know anything?
Jerry
I can assure you if a car company was stupid enough to install an exposed element air cleaner sticking out of the hood of a car, and rain caused that car to stumble, hesitate, and maybe even stall, that company would be forced to recall it in a heartbeat as a safety related defect. The car guys are a lot smarter than the Harley guys, thus they don't do that, but Harley still does stupid stuff just because it's popular in the aftermarket.
-
Update: I talked to MoCo customer service and they said almost the same thing. That the rain socks are not 100% rain proof and this could be a normal condition depending on the rainfall. The MoCo is paying for the diagnostic fee the dealer was trying to charge me ($95). They also said I should maybe try to take it to a different dealer and see if someone else can figure it out. Not happy but at least I'm not paying for for zero results. Still BS…….
FLH91
So you say to the idiot customer service representative..
The motor stumbling while riding in the rain is a safety issue. Are you stating it is normal for the motor to stumble while riding in the rain?
Are you stating that if there were 20 bikes just like mine riding with me in the same rain, we all would suffer the problem of the motor stumbling?
Are you stating it is not safe to ride my motorcycle while it is raining?
When he says it probably only stumbles in some types of rain, you ask...
Please define what type of rain I am not supposed to ride in so I don't put my wife at risk of having her bike's motor stumble in traffic.
If I am on a trip and it rains and the bike starts to stumble, are you suggesting I get a room for the night, or possibly several nights, until it stops raining?
You see, it's a fairly ridiculous conversation...
I'd probably cut to the chase fairly quickly and ask for a definitive answer as to whether or not my bike is safe to ride in the rain (without stumbling) or not. And if they said it's not safe to ride in some types of rain, I'd tell them I'll be informing the appropriate federal authorities of their position. Cause if my bike is not safe to ride in the rain, there are a whole bunch of other bikes on the road that are also not safe to ride in the rain...
-
if you take the sock off the ventilator and just trickle water over it, you will see how none effective it is, in rain going at speed...I have a black stocking underneath my Harley sock, the mesh is a lot more none porous than the Harley sock, but with both on, I have had no further problems in the rain,,,, just for info... :)
-
if you take the sock off the ventilator and just trickle water over it, you will see how none effective it is, in rain going at speed...I have a black stocking underneath my Harley sock, the mesh is a lot more none porous than the Harley sock, but with both on, I have had no further problems in the rain,,,, just for info... :)
Adding more layers of restrictive material might help keep excess water out, but there is no free lunch. It will also reduce airflow. The bike will still run OK thanks to modern closed loop engine management (up to a point that is), but the supposed high flow of the air cleaner is negated. At that point, it makes more sense to just throw the exposed element air cleaner in the used part bin and install an air cleaner with an effective cover. IMHO that's exactly what Harley should have done in the first place. These are street bikes, not race bikes that are never ridden in the rain.
Jerry
-
If you can't resolve it, try a K&N filter, the pleats are oil sprayed and will resist the water penetration, plus you can clean them, re spray them and use it forever. I used a K&N on my velocity stack that went through the hood of my car with an open front facing hood scoop, and I never had an issue, yes I had a cover to put on and I did use it but I did get caught in heavy rain with no chance to put it on and never had a problem.
-
I have ridden my 13 CVO Ultra in a lot of rain and I have never installed the so called "rain Sock" by the time I think of it the rain has stopped! That being said I have never had a stutter or stumble either!
-
When on the return ride from the 110th Anniversary, a buddy rode his '12 soft tail and I rode my '13 SEUC, one whole day in off and on torrential downpour rain without the socks, and neither bike missed a beat, thank God.
I agree the dealer is an idiot.
-
I have ridden mine in some very hard rain for about an hour and she never stumbled or did anything but what I asked of her. I put the sock on one time only because I was starting out in the rain. All the others were sock less. My 2010 Ultra was the same way no issues.