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[ScreaminStreetGlide]

Does anyone have experience with the Fuel Moto power package?  $1299.00 with free shipping includes stainless headers with 2 sets of O2 bungs (12mm and 18mm) for stock or wide-band oxygen sensors +dyno tuned mufflers +Power Commander V, with auto tune, and a custom map.  I think I will go this route unless I hear alot of negative feedback.  I don't know if this is acceptable, but the following link leads to another forum, but shows impressive results (maybe biased results, since they are provided by the selling company).  I haven't heard much about Fuel Motos stuff on the forums.

http://hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/454795-2010-cvo-110-fuel-moto-dyno-testing-and-tuning-info.html

If links to outside forums is not allowed, I appologize.  I will understand if the link is removed.

[SteveFLHTK]

Check out Fullsac's stage II before making any firm decisions.

[ScreaminStreetGlide]

Check out Fullsac's stage II before making any firm decisions.

Thanks Steve...I will look into it.  Does the TTS offer enough of a fuel ratio range to really make a difference with cooling?  I like the Power Commander (on paper) because the closed loop areas of the map can be adjusted more.  I do like the Idea of the TTS, just wish it used wide band sensors and had greater range.  The fact that it allows writing a map to the stock ECM is enticing.  I just can't decide.

[SteveFLHTK]

Last I heard, the Power Commander removes the O2 sensors from the system and goes 100% open loop.  The TTS allows full control on many more aspect than the Power Commander can.  You can adjust your blade response, which is your lag int TBW, and you can calibrate your speedo as well.

[ScreaminStreetGlide]

Last I heard, the Power Commander removes the O2 sensors from the system and goes 100% open loop.  The TTS allows full control on many more aspect than the Power Commander can.  You can adjust your blade response, which is your lag int TBW, and you can calibrate your speedo as well.

The new Power Commander V has the option for an "Auto Tune" module which includes 2 WIDE BAND O2 sensors, and allows you to set an a/f ratio anywhere you want in CLOSED LOOP.  As far as I can tell, this is the only tool available to do that.

[SteveFLHTK]

Nightrider has wideband O2 sensors, as does the Thundermax, assuming it's available for TBW models now.  Fact is, wideband are not necessary, and from what I've read, a misnomer anyway...they are still narrowband.  The stock sensors are actually switching I believe.  It is possible to change the bias on the stock sensors to get a richer mix anyway.  However, when you are in cruising mode, in closed loop, why would you want anything richer than 14:1 or so?

[HOGMIKE]

I like the option of setting the closed loop where I want it.
Also, setting the AFR to take advantage of the o2 sensors at the load/speed where I do most my cruising.
When I need a different AFR, under load/RPM the TTS will give me that.
I have no problems with the TTS on 2 bikes now. Works for what I want!

JMHO

 

[ScreaminStreetGlide]

Nightrider has wideband O2 sensors, as does the Thundermax, assuming it's available for TBW models now.  Fact is, wideband are not necessary, and from what I've read, a misnomer anyway...they are still narrowband.  The stock sensors are actually switching I believe.  It is possible to change the bias on the stock sensors to get a richer mix anyway.  However, when you are in cruising mode, in closed loop, why would you want anything richer than 14:1 or so?

Correct me if I am wrong here.  My understanding is that with the 2010 bikes and the new lambda based tables, you cannot possibly go below 14.2:1 with the TTS and remain in closed loop.  I know anything would be an improvement, however 14.2 isn't a hell of alot richer than the stock 14.6.  I would think 13.8 would be pretty good.  Can you use a TTS to tune the open loop portions of the table and an Xied to richen up the closed loop?  TTS website doesn't recommend that, but I can't grasp what the problem would be.

[SteveFLHTK]

You use the bias table to richen closed loop and the lambda table to richen open loop.  I don't see why you would want closed loop any richer than 14.2:1, you aren't cruising for power, and any more fuel would just kill fuel economy without adding any power.

Most tuners tune to 13.2 or close to it for max power....the thing is, that's WOT where you need the fuel for the power.

[HOGMIKE]

Correct me if I am wrong here.  My understanding is that with the 2010 bikes and the new lambda based tables, you cannot possibly go below 14.2:1 with the TTS and remain in closed loop.  I know anything would be an improvement, however 14.2 isn't a hell of alot richer than the stock 14.6.  I would think 13.8 would be pretty good.  Can you use a TTS to tune the open loop portions of the table and an Xied to richen up the closed loop?  TTS website doesn't recommend that, but I can't grasp what the problem would be.

Actually, I think it's more of 14.34 AFR doing the conversion from Lambda to AFR to stay in closed loop.

In my case, I don't want to go any richer than that in closed loop. This is pretty much what the dyno says for best power/torque in the range where I ride, using MY bike.
Yes, it goes richer to about 13.2 (Open loop) under certain load/rpm conditions.
I really don't see any reason to go "rich" in the range you normally cruise. You will have other problems going too rich, just like too lean.

Point being: wouldn't you want to dyno your bike to find out what mixture works the best for YOUR motor? Taking into consideration gas mileage, driveability!
Using the V-Tune capability of the TTS, you can optimize your tune for YOUR bike. I like that option, without having to add on any "adapters".

JMHO, of course!
 

[HOGMIKE]

You use the bias table to richen closed loop and the lambda table to richen open loop.  I don't see why you would want closed loop any richer than 14.2:1, you aren't cruising for power, and any more fuel would just kill fuel economy without adding any power.

Most tuners tune to 13.2 or close to it for max power....the thing is, that's WOT where you need the fuel for the power.

That's what I MEANT to say!!! 
 

[Doc 1]

You use the bias table to richen closed loop and the lambda table to richen open loop.  I don't see why you would want closed loop any richer than 14.2:1, you aren't cruising for power, and any more fuel would just kill fuel economy without adding any power.

Most tuners tune to 13.2 or close to it for max power....the thing is, that's WOT where you need the fuel for the power.

 

There isn't a CLB Table in a Lambda Map, However I agree 100% with the no load area being at 13.2 a waste of fuel without a HPgain.
Doc

[HOGMIKE]

Let me say first hand I have personally been in Jamie's shop and it is first rate. He spends untold hours testing and mapping every possible combination. His combination of TTS and Dynojet wide band is unbeatable. I am pushing 150HP+ and 133+TQ on my blown SERG with his tune with only 10 psi. My brothers 103 Limited is now a healthy 100HP and 107TQ[/b]. Compare that to your 110,s!     http://fuelmotousa.com/home.htm   

Boy, I guess I sure made a mistake!
My Limited is only 76HP and 93TQ!!
Stock they make 67HP and 82TQ, plus or minus a few points.
To get from there to 100/107 is quite a change!
Now the question is.........what changes??
And, I'm not even from Missouri, so you would not have to "show me"!

 

[Fullsac Performance]

 Does the TTS offer enough of a fuel ratio range to really make a difference with cooling?  I like the Power Commander (on paper) because the closed loop areas of the map can be adjusted more.  I do like the Idea of the TTS, just wish it used wide band sensors and had greater range.  The fact that it allows writing a map to the stock ECM is enticing.  I just can't decide.

Cooling down the late model bikes is the the common goal. Just adding fuel alone wont accomplish this. Improving overall efficiency with proper intake and exhaust
improvements combined with appropriate air fuel ratios based on engine load will get the results everyone is after. Making more power with the same amount of
fuel is the key to cooler temps. As mentioned, the richest close loop setting on the 2010 Lambda bikes with the TTS is 14.34. This is a hell of lot richer than the stock bikes
that float right at 15.0 AFR. A good touring bike gets good fuel milage. You want to be the guy in the group pointing at his tank after two hours? Set your cruise AFR richer
than 14.0 and you will be that guy. These late model bikes have 02 sensors, electric throttles, adaptive knock control, adaptive fuel and on and on. 
The TTS software allows simple access into one of the MC industry's most sophisticated EFI systems ever made. The one that you already have.
You want 13.5 AFR at 4000 RPM at 60 KPA and up? Go in and set it. Tired of that speedo reading fast? Fix it. Electric throttle lag? Click click, gone.
You don't need Wide band sensors to control your stock ECM. You just need access.

Steve George

[HOGMIKE]

Cooling down the late model bikes is the the common goal. Just adding fuel alone wont accomplish this. Improving overall efficiency with proper intake and exhaust
improvements combined with appropriate air fuel ratios based on engine load will get the results everyone is after. Making more power with the same amount of
fuel is the key to cooler temps. As mentioned, the richest close loop setting on the 2010 Lambda bikes with the TTS is 14.34. This is a hell of lot richer than the stock bikes
that float right at 15.0 AFR. A good touring bike gets good fuel milage. You want to be the guy in the group pointing at his tank after two hours? Set your cruise AFR richer
than 14.0 and you will be that guy. These late model bikes have 02 sensors, electric throttles, adaptive knock control, adaptive fuel and on and on. 
The TTS software allows simple access into one of the MC industry's most sophisticated EFI systems ever made. The one that you already have.
You want 13.5 AFR at 4000 RPM at 60 KPA and up? Go in and set it. Tired of that speedo reading fast? Fix it. Electric throttle lag? Click click, gone.
You don't need Wide band sensors to control your stock ECM. You just need access.

Steve George

 

Yep, what HE said!