Topic: S and S oil sump fix ? (Read 7700 times)

Gandrtravis · « **on:** November 19, 2018, 06:54:11 AM »

https://www.sscycle.com/products/gear-drive-475g-cam-chest-kit-with-black-pushrod-tubes-for-oil-cooled-2017-up-m8-models/

Gandrtravis · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2018, 06:55:44 AM »

Wondering if anyone knows anything about this I’m a bit concerned about all the sumping talk has anyone tried this kit or know any details about it ?

mark · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2018, 07:55:59 PM »

To each his/her own, but if you install this and your bike sumps, say goodbye to the warranty. If choosing to install this, I'd only do it outside of the warranty period.

grc · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2018, 09:16:09 PM »

Harley released a new oil pump cover for 2019 that has a new seal, and they "claim" this fixes the sumping issue. You would be further ahead just having that part installed for now. As noted by Mark, if you install that aftermarket oil pump and cam kit you will void your powertrain warranty. I'd suggest waiting on those kinds of mods while the bike is still covered by the factory warranty.

As for the S&S oil pump "fixing" the sumping problem, I haven't seen any information that would support or disprove that claim. The only way I know to prove it would be to take a bike that is sumping and do nothing to it other than install the S&S pump to see if it solves the problem.

P/N: 62400206 COVER OIL PUMP ASSEMBLY
P/N: 62400205 SEAL

Jerry

1Riseaboveit · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2018, 10:46:44 AM »

I can only speak from my own personal experience. I'm no expert.
I have an 18 117 that had sumping issues from day one. HD sent the new pump and cover with the seal for mine. We also enlarged the air cleaner bolts where the case vents. It definitely helped in my case. When mine would sump before it was over 70% loss of power. As stated in other post on this forum, I would stop, leave the scooter standing straight up, let it idle until it caught up. After those changes, it would have a minimal power loss (less than 20%) and would clear up while riding if I backed off the throttle and cruised.

I had the S&S oil pump setup installed this past week. So far so good. I only have 320 miles on it so far, but it has not given me any signs of trouble at all.

MoCo says that they have tried the S&S setup and it has not worked for all of the sumping issues.

Hope this is useful.

CVODON · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2018, 07:03:19 PM »

Do you have the name of the person at the MC that told you they had tried the S&S unit? Or was this a dealership guy? I am really curious on this.
Thanks

1Riseaboveit · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2018, 07:23:45 PM »

Unfortunately, This is second hand from the dealership.

Besides, You can't even get most people you talk to at the Mothership to admit there's a problem at all... Much less admit the would even consider using an aftermarket part to fix it...lol

MCE · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2018, 10:36:51 AM »

S&S has been fixing Harley's f u c k ups since day-one.

prodrag1320 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2018, 06:25:46 AM »

the 2 M8 we`ve seen with sumping problems were corrected with the S&S pump

Gandrtravis · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2018, 02:29:26 PM »

Quote from: prodrag1320 on December 14, 2018, 06:25:46 AM

the 2 M8 we`ve seen with sumping problems were corrected with the S&S pump

Good to know. I no that I have warranty but honestly I’d rather prevent a problem in the first place. If someone was going to change cams and void warranty may as well do the oil pump and s and s cam was my thoughts.

1Riseaboveit · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2018, 02:31:03 PM »

Definitely! Was worth the money in my opinion. I wish I would have done it sooner.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 25, 2018, 09:40:19 AM »

I have installed S&S’s cam and plate in several bikes and it has cured the problem. Some of these bikes have already been through a dealership for warranty repair. One of them was in a dealership more than once. This guy figured out that he owned the bike for 9 months and it was in the dealership for repair more than in his possession. Is the warranty worth something if the bike is sitting in the shop more the 2/3’s of the time?

Of the M8’s that I have built w/ S&S or Fueling (they hit the ground first). I have never experienced a comeback because of sumping. IMO a better pump does address the issue.

Not the most informative but....... worth a watch.

cmashark · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2019, 09:01:10 PM »

I think it’s sort of funny. If you look at prodrag, Hardtail, fuel Moto, T-man, or star racing none of them are having any engines come back with sumping issues. I think the factory, and the factory techs, are indexing the oil pump incorrectly. When I installed a 475 cam in an 18 road glide I had no issues when I followed the S&S instructions, but when I followed the service manual it was actually missing a step and I had slight binding.

Gandrtravis · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2019, 09:45:04 AM »

Quote from: cmashark on January 01, 2019, 09:01:10 PM

I think it’s sort of funny. If you look at prodrag, Hardtail, fuel Moto, T-man, or star racing none of them are having any engines come back with sumping issues. I think the factory, and the factory techs, are indexing the oil pump incorrectly. When I installed a 475 cam in an 18 road glide I had no issues when I followed the S&S instructions, but when I followed the service manual it was actually missing a step and I had slight binding.

Could be true as it seems most that sump and stage 3-4 with Harley cams. Have herd of stock failures but not as much. Mine seems fine knock on wood 5000 miles no issue. Might run one more season stock and see if it’s holding up fine. Looking at Fuel Moto m8 128” kit tho and 140hp sounds like a good time lol

bigdave110 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2019, 11:35:46 AM »

My questions would be.
1. Why again are we paying to fix these bikes! LOL
2. I have seen several bikes after new crank specks (yes they where twin cams) including one of my own have problems with gear drives since crank tolerances where to high.
Anyone know what they are with the M8. If they are high, it seems the gear drive and lack of movement would cause problems.

Not bad mouthing S&S here, love there stuff. Have had many gear drives on 2004 and under, but again, have seen some real problems after those years unless you addressed the crank.

I sold my 2017 due to this sumping issue. Pissed me off, $40,000 and still needs fixed. I am over it at this point.

Just some thoughts

Big Dave

Tn.Heritage · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2019, 06:49:02 AM »

Quote from: bigdave110 on January 04, 2019, 11:35:46 AM

My questions would be.
1. Why again are we paying to fix these bikes! LOL
2. I have seen several bikes after new crank specks (yes they where twin cams) including one of my own have problems with gear drives since crank tolerances where to high.
Anyone know what they are with the M8. If they are high, it seems the gear drive and lack of movement would cause problems.

Not bad mouthing S&S here, love there stuff. Have had many gear drives on 2004 and under, but again, have seen some real problems after those years unless you addressed the crank.

I sold my 2017 due to this sumping issue. Pissed me off, $40,000 and still needs fixed. I am over it at this point.

Just some thoughts

Big Dave

Dave I'm curious, iffing you sold all your bikes, what are you currently riding, Indian ?

RivRaptor · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2019, 08:12:24 PM »

Quote from: cmashark on January 01, 2019, 09:01:10 PM

I think it’s sort of funny. If you look at prodrag, Hardtail, fuel Moto, T-man, or star racing none of them are having any engines come back with sumping issues. I think the factory, and the factory techs, are indexing the oil pump incorrectly. When I installed a 475 cam in an 18 road glide I had no issues when I followed the S&S instructions, but when I followed the service manual it was actually missing a step and I had slight binding.

Could you elaborate on that missing step. I ordered a torgue cam for my 114 and was curious about the missing step. Thanks Chris

cmashark · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2019, 01:01:24 AM »

Quote from: RivRaptor on January 08, 2019, 08:12:24 PM

Could you elaborate on that missing step. I ordered a torgue cam for my 114 and was curious about the missing step. Thanks Chris

Step 11 on the S&S instructions is missing from the manual. “Check for binding”. The service manual tells you to do the initial torque on screws one and two, for the oil pump, then rotate the crankshaft one revolution and then final torque of everything. I was able to duplicate the binding, twice, by following the manual. Now the S&S instructions won’t tell you what to do if you discover binding neither will the service manual. The easy fix was to have my wife rotate the back tire with the bike and sixth gear while I torqued down the oil pump completely.

RivRaptor · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2019, 01:11:38 PM »

Thanks for the info!

Unbalanced · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2019, 02:00:46 PM »

If you find binding it’s one of the following: If it’s binding it will most likely lock up - don’t force it

Mis-alignment by you
Torqued wrong
Too much runout on the crank
A manufacturing defect

Follow the guide and specs and it should work out fine.

bigdave110 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2019, 07:38:07 AM »

Quote from: Tn.Heritage on January 07, 2019, 06:49:02 AM

Dave I'm curious, iffing you sold all your bikes, what are you currently riding, Indian ?

That is a fair question.
I purchased a 2015 streetglide from the auction. It was a theft recovery. Only needed a battery. Purchased it for $9,500.00 Now I do not feel bad putting money into it. No more new Harley's for me, that I have to fix anyway!!!!!!.
Then I test drove a BMW Grand American and 1600GTL. Purchased the 1600GTL, Best money I ever spent. Power, handling, and all the goodies for way less mony. And the best part, I do not need to spend any money to make it right!!!!
lol Still like my Harley, but this BMW is hard to beat.

CJ CYCLE · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2019, 07:47:13 PM »

I installed the S&S oil pump and cam plate set up when I installed a cam last week. Too much snow here to ride yet, but I'm not going to wait until or if I have SUMPING problems. The kit is around $700 and will give you peace of mind. You can get the kit at my e-Bay store. I have a Make Offer, so make me an offer and we will get you set up.

https://www.ebay.com/str/cjcycle

yobtaf103 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2019, 11:11:26 AM »

Anyone had excess oil outa the head breathers, since fitting the S&S pump & plate?

Author Topic: S and S oil sump fix ? (Read 7700 times)

mark

MCE