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Author Topic: Dakar Rally Canceled  (Read 7193 times)

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Ceej

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Dakar Rally Canceled
« on: January 04, 2008, 06:58:28 PM »

Dakar Rally canceled....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=ap-dakarrally-optional&prov=ap&type=lgns

This infuriates me.....they're winning  >:(
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 07:17:15 PM »

That sucks big time.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 07:49:07 PM »

It is unfortunate that the low life, cowardly, jihad extremists terrorize the unarmed citizens of the world.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 08:07:13 PM »

come on guys, let's not broad brush stroke a religious sect. 
This has nothing to do with a holy war, it's my opinion that it's a pissing match between "the haves" and "the have nots".
This is the world we live in, and it's a shame that the race was cancelled. You can't blame a religion for the world problems.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 08:19:31 PM »

come on guys, let's not broad brush stroke a religious sect. 
This has nothing to do with a holy war, it's my opinion that it's a pissing match between "the haves" and "the have nots".
This is the world we live in, and it's a shame that the race was cancelled. You can't blame a religion for the world problems.

You are joking right?

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 08:20:19 PM »

come on guys, let's not broad brush stroke a religious sect. 
This has nothing to do with a holy war, it's my opinion that it's a pissing match between "the haves" and "the have nots".
This is the world we live in, and it's a shame that the race was cancelled. You can't blame a religion for the world problems.
I must have missed the Bin Laden poverty story  :nixweiss:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 08:32:54 PM »

wow, and i thought God was on our side.

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 09:56:09 PM »

I don't know what kind of god they speak of....

...and if it was the haves vs. have nots then they should be attacking the middle eastern leaders that keep all the profits from the oil money for themselves and do nothing for the have nots. Now I do think the haves promote this twisted version of a religion as a way to keep the rest downtrodden, but the rest of the religion doesn't seem to take much of a stand against the wacko's.




From The Sun newspaper in the UK.....In his own words an Islamic Cleric speaks.....



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article634210.ece


By OLIVER HARVEY
Chief Feature Writer
in Kahuta, Pakistan

Published: 31 Dec 2007
 
A FANATICAL Pakistani cleric told The Sun yesterday of his chilling dream to turn the world Muslim – by force if necessary.

Qari Hifzur Rehamn, 60, spoke openly of imposing Islamic law’s stoning and beheading on Britain – as Pakistan was rocked by unrest over the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

He warned: “We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world.

“We would like to do this by preaching. But if not then we would use force.”

Rehamn, 60, spoke in the Pakistani town of Kahuta as the call to prayer echoed over the dusty streets.

He is Imam of the town’s fundamentalist religious school or madrassa, where classes for kids as young as nine include Jihad or Holy War and barbaric punishments.

His teachings are frightening enough. But his mosque lies in the shadow of the secret bunker where Pakistan produces nuclear weapons.

And when asked if it would be right to nuke British infidels, he laughed and answered: “Probably.”


Army

Rehamn, in a flowing grey beard and turban, explained Islamic, or Sharia Law as we sat surrounded by some of his 250 students.

He said: “Adulterers who are married should be buried in earth to the waist and stoned to death.

“Homosexuals must be killed – it’s the only way to stop them spreading. It should be by beheading or stoning, which the general public can do.

“Thieves should have their hands cut off. Women should remain indoors and films and pop music should be banned.”

So what does he think of Britain? The dad insisted: “The nonbelievers must be converted to Islam. Morals in your society, with women wearing revealing clothes, have gone wrong.”



Scary ... playground nuke

Phil Hannaford
The spot where enriched uranium is produced for Pakistan’s 80 to 120 nuclear warheads is behind razor wire less than five miles from where we spoke.

A dummy missile even sits in a children’s playground in Kahuta.

Only this month, doomed opposition leader Benazir Bhutto raised the spectre of al-Qaeda-linked Islamic militants seizing control of Pakistan’s nuclear warheads – and activity by radicals near Kahuta.

Despite the efforts of politicians such as her to champion democracy, the country has long been a hotbed of Islamic extremism and there is no shortage of potential martyrs.

At the Red Mosque in the heart of the capital Islamabad, Maulana Mohavya Irshad, 24, stared coldly at me. He said: “I’m ready to become a suicide bomber and lay down my life for Islam. Democracy is wrong. Earth belongs to God and God’s law must be implemented.

“I hope Britain and the rest of the world will have Sharia Law this century. We will continue to sacrifice our lives to achieve this.”

Meanwhile, the al-Qaeda warlord accused of masterminding the death of Ms Bhutto, 54, has warned his 13,000-strong private army will fight to the death against any troops sent to seize him.

Long-bearded Baitullah Mehsud, holed up in the bandit country of South Waziristan on the Afghan border, denied being behind Bhutto’s murder last Thursday in a suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi.

But his cousin Shehryar Mehsud, 34, told The Sun: “Baitullah and the rest of us will fight to the last man.

Our army of thousands of Muslim brothers is ready for Jihad against the infidels and against the infidel government in Pakistan.



“UK and America are the enemy number one of Islam. We have joined the Taliban troops fighting in Afghanistan and will continue Jihad until we liberate the country.”

The Pakistani government claims a phone-tap caught Mehsud, 34, and a cleric gloating over Bhutto’s death, calling it “spectacular”.

His cousin insisted: “Baitullah Mehsud is not involved in the killing of Western ally Benazir Bhutto.


Fight

“We did not kill her but she was against Islam and Islamic teachings.”

Another of his clan, Mohamad Ali Mehsud, 26, bragged to The Sun about Mehsud striking from his lair in Pakistan against British and US forces in Afghanistan.

Mohamad said: “Baitullah is cunning. He moves positions all the time and uses disguises. Many times he has survived by a whisker.

“His men cross into Afghanistan, fight infidel soldiers and steal laptops, mobile phones and money. They bribe the soldiers guarding the border to get back into Pakistan.”

But did Mehsud kill Bhutto? Mohamad said: “Baitullah didn’t like Bhutto’s lipstick and Western ways. But he didn’t kill her. He only kills men.”
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 12:08:35 AM »

Quote
"The United States of America is giving you 6 months to stop the violence worldwide attributed to Muslims or we will unleash nuclear war and turn all of your countries into one big glass parking lot
"

Yep, and in 10,000 years a Wal-Mart can be built next to the large parking lot.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 12:13:01 AM »

Can I get an Amen to brother Spiderman.


      AMEN BROTHER SPIDERMAN
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 07:12:01 AM »

come on guys, let's not broad brush stroke a religious sect. 
This has nothing to do with a holy war, it's my opinion that it's a pissing match between "the haves" and "the have nots".
This is the world we live in, and it's a shame that the race was cancelled. You can't blame a religion for the world problems.

????????????????????????????

I wish this board had a "I want to think about leaving" button, instead of a just delete me button.

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2008, 07:26:50 AM »

????????????????????????????

I wish this board had a "I want to think about leaving" button, instead of a just delete me button.

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2008, 11:41:05 AM »

????????????????????????????

I wish this board had a "I want to think about leaving" button, instead of a just delete me button.

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Candy this guy was a member here. He displayed his picture and "one for all, all for one" signature about a MC. I'm pretty tolerant about most things except ignorance.

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 12:01:32 PM »

At some point in time we must react to these threats with one of our own which should go something like this

" To all people of Muslim faith. Many of you say your religion is about peace and love. The time has come to prove that you mean what you say and end the violence worldwide that your faith has begat. The United States of America is giving you 6 months to stop the violence worldwide attributed to Muslims or we will unleash nuclear war and turn all of your countries into one big glass parking lot "

short, not necessarily sweet, but certainly to the point

B B

Come on now…

This argument is like “all Harley owners are gang members outlaw bikers… we should kill you all, and if you don’t like the association then all the legitimate Harley owners should hunt down the real bad guys and take care of them so there are no more negative associations”.

This is a group who are taking an interpretation of a religious sect and making it conform to their own mandate.

Being Muslim has nothing to do with it, would we make the same argument if they said they were Christian Freedom Fighters?

On that note, we watched The Kingdom with Jamie Fox last night… slow at the beginning but gave a lot to think about in the end… very violent!

With Dakar they are achieving the ultimate result, but on a worldwide scale… your right, they are wining and it’s crap.

The rest of the world will not stand up to these punks the way North America (more so the US) will….

I hate bullies, they should be stomped out, but they are so damn hard to find.

I found one of these for my vest on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/442-BLUE-Motorcycle-vest-patch-TERRORIST-HUNTING-PERMIT_W0QQitemZ170182884936QQihZ007QQcategoryZ35967QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe we could all get them and go a huntin?
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2008, 03:13:33 PM »

We as non muslim westerners miss the point, this is beyond religion - it is ideology. To be a Muslim "Believer", requires you believe in God's law only, Sharia law - you must submit to gods law or you are not a true muslim - And their goal is to spread Sharia law throughout the world, thus it is not suprising that...A Survey of UK Muslims - the fastest growing nationality in the UK, +40% want Sharia Law. In Sweden, Muslims are becoming majorities in Amsterdam and Rotterdam, with some area's like Malmö the third largest city virtually taken over by violent muslim gangs.

The largest US Muslim population is in Dearborn, Mi - outside of Detroit, 81% there want Sharia.....a quote from an article describing the study by Author Robert Spencer..

"I don't consider 81% moderate. Sharia law contains numerous provisions that deny tenets of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Conversion from Islam is punishable by death; non-Muslims are second-class citizens; a woman's testimony is not admissible in her own rape case, and on and on. I document these and more in Islam Unveiled and Onward Muslim Soldiers. If these Detroit Muslims were truly moderate, they would renounce Sharia."

London is jokingly referred to as Londonstan, France has had violent riots the past couple of years by young muslims. In western societies, Our own political correctness will be used against us aid in the spread of Muslim immigrants with the mind set of spreading Sharia law - they know it won't happen in 10-20 years, they are working on a 200 year plan. This plus the fact that they don't fear dying to further their goals, make them probably the most formidable foe the west has ever faced. Iran will go Nuke, Pakastan government will go to radical muslims, then the muslim world has equaled the west by also having the nuke option so we don't even have that as a threat anymore.

I have read, studied, and thought of how to win this fight...I fear It may be an unbeatable foe.


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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2008, 10:58:28 AM »

They should just mix in some humvee's with the racers! Some 50 cal and a few TOW missiles should take care of things.

This sucks, I love watching the huge trucks make this run!
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2008, 05:07:33 PM »

Well, BB, you had me on the edge of the pew......until you lapsed back into the 'status quo'.  Dang, i was right wringing ready to join up again.  >:( :confused5:  spyder
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2008, 06:58:21 PM »

I said some stuff!
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2008, 07:05:07 PM »

Go back to the Old Days. Manifest Destiny. We need the oil, we take it! Put an American Flag on every oil well, and gas is a buck a gal next week! Put Israel in charge of the whole Middle East, just to piss 'em off. Go ahead, F with us again! Why do we put up with this political BS. Does the strongest in the world really GAS what other people think! F 'em! What happened to those days! :o ;)

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2008, 08:36:56 PM »

Go back to the Old Days. Manifest Destiny. We need the oil, we take it! Put an American Flag on every oil well, and gas is a buck a gal next week! Put Israel in charge of the whole Middle East, just to piss 'em off. Go ahead, F with us again! Why do we put up with this political BS. Does the strongest in the world really GAS what other people think! F 'em! What happened to those days! :o ;)

Hoist! 8)
Think China won't take the oil by force if it is needed. Given their rate of growth, both economic & populous, I fear that that may just happen.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2008, 10:12:12 PM »

Aye there's the rub
I just hope our young people will be up to the task when the time comes!!!
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 10:18:37 PM »

...Howie, kinda like we did with the Native Americans in North America?

In addition, does anyone here honestly think we could possibly wage even a "limited" (whatever that means) nuclear attack anywhere in the world, and not suffer unimaginable consequences not only globally, but here in this country?  

For God's sake, people, THINK about what you are saying...eradication of a race because of their religious beliefs has alread been tried once, by a manical leader named Adolf Hitler.  Do we REALLY want to go down that road?  Don't you think there has been enough murder, rape, terrorism, and general mayhem in the name of RELIGION historically?

There are a miriad of reasons people grasp one belief system over another, and none of them are simplistic, and most of us cannot even begin to relate or understand them.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 10:31:10 PM »

...Howie, kinda like we did with the Native Americans in North America?

In addition, does anyone here honestly think we could possibly wage even a "limited" (whatever that means) nuclear attack anywhere in the world, and not suffer unimaginable consequences not only globally, but here in this country?  

For God's sake, people, THINK about what you are saying...eradication of a race because of their religious beliefs has alread been tried once, by a manical leader named Adolf Hitler.  Do we REALLY want to go down that road?  Don't you think there has been enough murder, rape, terrorism, and general mayhem in the name of RELIGION historically?

There are a miriad of reasons people grasp one belief system over another, and none of them are simplistic, and most of us cannot even begin to relate or understand them.
Terry, while I think you may be goin' a little far in terms of "nuclear war" and "race eradication" I have to say that after personally operating in the Middle East prior to 24 hr news mind games, I feel very confident in saying that there are more Americans (some of my friends and family included) that DO NOT understand the threat than I care to see. This is a threat (religious extremism) that is more fierce than anything our generation has ever had to deal with. It is my opinion that it has come to this, in part, because of our politically correct culture. Those people do not rationalize anything like we do, hence how are we expected to get it?

This problem has to be delt with. We cannot bury our heads in the sand, and rely on the fact that we are sandwiched between two bodies of water to keep us safe!!!
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2008, 10:48:31 PM »

Terry, while I think you may be goin' a little far in terms of "nuclear war" and "race eradication" I have to say that after personally operating in the Middle East prior to 24 hr news mind games, I feel very confident in saying that there are more Americans (some of my friends and family included) that DO NOT understand the threat than I care to see. This is a threat (religious extremism) that is more fierce than anything our generation has ever had to deal with. It is my opinion that it has come to this, in part, because of our politically correct culture. Those people do not rationalize anything like we do, hence how are we expected to get it?

This problem has to be delt with. We cannot bury our heads in the sand, and rely on the fact that we are sandwiched between two bodies of water to keep us safe!!!

Howie...I'm referring to posts in this thread, and others, which are proposing "parking lots", and lumping all believers in a particular faith into the same pile as fanatics.  We have religious extremists right here in this country who have bombed and murdered innocent people in the name of "God" and their set of beliefs.  And they are supposed "Christians".  So, by default, those of us who do not agree with their beliefs should lump ALL Christians with them.  I think not.

This an extremely complicated situation, and a "shoot from the hip" mentality will offer no solutions, but IMO, only serve to galvanize/solidify those who do not agree with our belief systems and way of life.  It gives them a focal point, which every "cause" needs.  We cannot solve this problem alone...the costs are too great, both in human life, and in economics. 
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2008, 11:07:28 PM »

Howie...I'm referring to posts in this thread, and others, which are proposing "parking lots", and lumping all believers in a particular faith into the same pile as fanatics.  We have religious extremists right here in this country who have bombed and murdered innocent people in the name of "God" and their set of beliefs.  And they are supposed "Christians".  So, by default, those of us who do not agree with their beliefs should lump ALL Christians with them.  I think not.

This an extremely complicated situation, and a "shoot from the hip" mentality will offer no solutions, but IMO, only serve to galvanize/solidify those who do not agree with our belief systems and way of life.  It gives them a focal point, which every "cause" needs.  We cannot solve this problem alone...the costs are too great, both in human life, and in economics. 
I knew what you were referring to Terry, but I wonder what your position would be if Bham was located in between Afganistan and Pakistan. As bad as the A-hole extremists right here in this country are - they are childs play in comparison. Actually there is no logical comparison.

I agree with you that it is more complicated than we sometimes try to make it out to be. However, I know that from my personal standpoint, both in the military as well as an American residing in New York State, I have to admit that I would like an opportunity for a little payback. Although I'll be 41 Saturday, I would gladly volunteer to fight the jihadists if called up to help my brothers and sisters. Gladly!!!!
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 12:52:26 AM »

...Howie, kinda like we did with the Native Americans in North America?

You know, I'm tired of this kind of statement, and I am of partial Native American descent. I was conservative, but have changed to independent libertarian - as such I now can embrace evolution.....you know survival of the fittest. Well, the Native Americans kinda blew it, they had the home field advantage and waited too long to defend what was theirs as an invasion of illegal immigrants crossed their borders. They tried to "Just get along" and instead they just got taken over and used....kinda sounds familiar...


Don't you think there has been enough murder, rape, terrorism, and general mayhem in the name of RELIGION historically?

Yep, and from Africa to the former Soviet Union, to South East Asia one religion is still committing murder, rape, and terrorism today. Should we find a way to punish the Romans for past crimes - or should we deal with the problem at hand?  



Some info and opinions....

This "Religion" asserts that democracy is an enemy of Islam because Sharia Law is the only law and that requires an Islamic state, Islamic government. SO now we find that a "threat" from the Al-Qaeda Organisation in the Islamic Maghreb has resulted in the cancellation of an international event.  What will this accomplish?? it will make them believe they've triumphed over all the security measures taken by Portugal, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal combined.

This threat carries weight as result of a December 24th attack on french tourists having a roadside picnic in Mauritania. The three gunmen fired at the French family group as they picnicked alongside a road about 150 miles southeast of the capital of Nouakchott on Monday, killing four of them and wounding a fifth. The 73-year-old survivor was shot in the leg; he was evacuated to Lyon, France, today by private plane and is in stable condition. His two adult sons, his brother and a family friend were killed. The suspects belong to the Al-Qaeda Organisation in the Islamic Maghreb, and follows a September statement by al-Qaida's second in command, he urged North African Muslims to "cleanse" their land of Spaniards and French.

So, what do we do when they threaten to attack the Olympics?? Or the Superbowl??


I don't have an answer, I fear there isn't one...our world is becoming so politically correct and their world is completely opposite - very fundamentalist. That spells no will on our part to stand for much, and for them not only to stand for their belief - but kill and die for it.

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 01:59:22 AM »

In this day and age it is so easy to forget.  Have you Forgotten?


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/346342/have_you_forgotten/
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 05:24:08 AM »

In this day and age it is so easy to forget.  Have you Forgotten?


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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 08:23:20 AM »

I for one have certainly not forgotten what was done in NYC, nor have I forgotten who was responsible for those acts.  Last time I checked, Bin Laden was alive and well, at least as far as I know.  Instead, our agression/retaliation and resources became focused elsewhere, where we have succeeded in DE-stabilizing the country and provided a breeding/training ground for the very thing for which we were attempting to gain retribution.  Again, we have provided a focal point for the world's extremists.  Do not misinterpret my meaning...the brave men and women who face death every day in that undeclared and unsanctioned "war on terroists" (Iraq) should be admired...but Iraq was NOT a threat to the US, or any other country at that time.  Rather, our present political leadership capitalized on the emotional state of the country at that time, fed us lies, and got the American people to support a poorly planned effort to impose our will.  The military battle has long since been won there...what are we doing now?  Winning some battles, but not the war, and trying to figure out a way to extricate ourselves from a brown Vietnam.  We had world support for our actions against those who were responsible for the atrocity in NYC...our political leadership has managed to squander that support.  We, as a county, CANNOT do this alone, politically correct, or not.

Regarding Native Americans...what chance did they have with rocks and arrows against guns and cannons?  That's all that needs to be said about that.  It was wrong, but it's done.

I do not have a solution to extremeism...frankly, I don't think there IS a solution for stopping people who are willing to blow themselves up.  What I do know is that nuking them is NOT an option.  Covert actions against extremeist leadership MIGHT be one possible answer, but a temporary one, at best.  Attempts to take over entire countries is simply not feasible, as is being proven every day.

Once again, there are no simplistic solutions to very complex problems.  That is all I have to say on this subject.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 08:46:30 AM »

Never said anything about nuking. With our power and technology, we can take over anything we want, anytime we want, and leave most of it intact. We have the ability to strike such fear into anyone we want, that they'll never think of messing with us again. Taking over the oil fields in the ME should'a been done a long time ago. Now as Howie stated, we need to fear China doing the same. It'll have been too late. But it's still not too late for us.

As I've lost friends at the WTC, and have had to live thru what these MF's have caused first-hand, I have no sympathy or compassion for anyway we need to take care of business. The only way to prevent these atrocities is to strike so much fear into these people that they'd really never think about trying anything to us again. No one would!

Ceej is  right though "our world is becoming so politically correct and their world is completely opposite". We need to forget about political correctness, stop worrying about what others will think, and take care of business!

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2008, 10:28:52 AM »

Can I get an Amen to brother Spiderman.


      AMEN BROTHER SPIDERMAN

...AMEN bro,  Doc
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2008, 12:07:55 PM »

Never said anything about nuking. With our power and technology, we can take over anything we want, anytime we want, and leave most of it intact. We have the ability to strike such fear into anyone we want, that they'll never think of messing with us again. Taking over the oil fields in the ME should'a been done a long time ago. Now as Howie stated, we need to fear China doing the same. It'll have been too late. But it's still not too late for us.

As I've lost friends at the WTC, and have had to live thru what these MF's have caused first-hand, I have no sympathy or compassion for anyway we need to take care of business. The only way to prevent these atrocities is to strike so much fear into these people that they'd really never think about trying anything to us again. No one would!

Ceej is  right though "our world is becoming so politically correct and their world is completely opposite". We need to forget about political correctness, stop worrying about what others will think, and take care of business!

Hoist! 8)

Sorry Hoist, I must have misunderstood your related post in the Obahma thread where you said "even if we have to destroy half the world...."  And, I must have missed the news that all of Iraq's oil supply capabililty is fully operational, and all other necessary infrastructure is up and running.  The people there must be as happy as pigs in the sunshine, and so must we, to be pumping all that oil out of the ground now.   ::)

One other thing...after taking over all the worlds oil fields, 'splain to me how you plan to hold them...at an average cost of 17K to simply outfit a soldier now, and with it probably taking...lets just say for grins...a million more armed men and women to hold the countries we take, not counting those it would take to rebuild the infrastructure after the people of the country we take blow all the chit up to keep us from being able to use it.  Where's the million people coming from, and where is the financing to undertake your proposed mission for our military?  Let China do some more financing of our war effort?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:26:14 PM by TCnBham »
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2008, 12:22:44 PM »

Sorry Hoist, I must have misunderstood your related post in the Obahma thread where you said "even if we have to destroy half the world...."  And, I must have missed the news that all of Iraq's oil supply capabililty is fully operational, and all other necessary infrastructure is up and running.  The people there must be as happy as pigs in the sunshine, and so must we, to be pumping all that oil out of the ground now.   ::)

Sorry Terry, a little "sensationalism" in there for effect. I am not promoting nuking the world here. I'm saying we need to stop worrying about "political correctness" and TCOB! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2008, 01:10:38 PM »

Sorry Hoist, I must have misunderstood your related post in the Obahma thread where you said "even if we have to destroy half the world...."  And, I must have missed the news that all of Iraq's oil supply capabililty is fully operational, and all other necessary infrastructure is up and running.  The people there must be as happy as pigs in the sunshine, and so must we, to be pumping all that oil out of the ground now.   ::) Terry,when I was operating in the Persian Gulf (during the largest naval battle since WWII - please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis) it was my experience that the common people and even some of the Iranian military was VERY happy to have us there!!One other thing...after taking over all the worlds oil fields, 'splain to me how you plan to hold them...at an average cost of 17K to simply outfit a soldier now, and with it probably taking...lets just say for grins...a million more armed men and women to hold the countries we take, not counting those it would take to rebuild the infrastructure after the people of the country we take blow all the chit up to keep us from being able to use it.  Where's the million people coming from, and where is the financing to undertake your proposed mission for our military?  Let China do some more financing of our war effort?
While I'm not advacating taking over "all the world's oil fields, at least not yet, I can assure you that the "costs" assoiciated  with "holding them" in terms of the human and economic costs, are from a domestic standpoint, significantly lower than the current costs. Because we as a nation are NOT commited to the current situations we are paying one hell of a price. With the conviction of the American people and the shear force that our great military possess, a full court press would have profound effect. We haven't witnessed 1/4 of our militaries strength do to PC. The ONLY thing the bad guys understand is FORCE. Wish it were different but we can't control that.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2008, 04:04:43 PM »

At the height of it's power, Rome would follow this way of thinking so harshly that it was said a citizen of Rome could walk about freely without fear anywhere on earth because any act against him would be dealt with a hundred fold. This policy brought centuries of peace and stability to vast segments of the ancient world.


Not going to get drawn in to a religio-political ramble on the who, what, when and why's of it all.  Would just point out one thing about Rome as an example though.

It's true that there was some degree of security for someone who saw a Roman alien, waved his hand and uttered "civus Romanus."   In areas where Rome had control the response could be... robust.

One has to ask, however, "at what cost?"  Rome's periphery was filled with enemies.   Celts, Germanics, Parthians, Sassanid Persians, Carthage's genocide under Cato, Egypt and the list goes on and on and on and on.  Such does not even touch on Rome's enemies in civil wars within the empire.  In some ways even more telling is Rome's historical legacy.  Modernity may admire some of what Rome achieved.  We do not mourn its passing though.  There's always the snickering look back of "well, they really deserved it after all."

So, granted, some notion of "civus Americanus" is an admirable goal.  But not at the cost Rome paid. 

Give me a different example for our own future than one beset with enemies in toto and an international history that looks back at a backwater United States with a subtext that says "the Americans deserved it."  Short of that I'll face enemies that have forced that title upon themselves by their actions or alliances. 

I'll hope to face them on terms and fields of my own choosing as much as possible.  But would face them whereever and however needed.  I believe that an eventual victory by a combination of military, social and economic means is possible short of eventually having to be Rome and rising and falling as such.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2008, 04:25:13 PM »

Not to put tooo fine a point on things here.. but I believe that we are already involved in a civil war of global proportions. 

Now is probably the right time for the individuals of the free world to take things in to thier own hands, and deal with the destabilizers of our planetary culture individually. 

Yes, we are a global culture now, we have been for some time, and the malignant growths of counter-civilization need to be exiced from the body of the whole, or the whole will not survive. 

There are now, and there always have been, more good guys than bad guys.  If we wait too long, all will have to stand and be counted among the warriors.  If it is done sooner, then the warriors among us will bear the cost alone.  Either way, the cost of the extremists will be borne.  It's just a matter of when society will demand that the cost be paid and the deed be done. 

What are YOU ready to do, individually, when the problem raises it's head in your neighborhood?  in the house next door.  At the cash register at your local Dairy Mart?  At your childs school?          What will YOU do?

Thak about that for a minute............         

 :soapbox:   
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2008, 05:07:25 PM »

Not to put tooo fine a point on things here.. but I believe that we are already involved in a civil war of global proportions. 



It's the way it's always been Shannon.  I couldn't agree more that when tactics and strategy suggest that an alliance of those in favor of good or right or whatever it might be called can more easily give battle to an opposition it ought to be done.  But only rarely has it ever been done that way.

Instead those we'd see as "our side" have to wait and be blooded.  And they have to do it again.  Lingerers will fall to malingerers and fewer will stand alone before great enough action is eventually taken.  It's not just sad, it's not just wrong, in real ways it's also just dumb.  But it may be a "dumb-ness" we have to endure.

Israel didn't wait to protect itself in its many wars until a time came when political realities said it could not afford to be seen to strike first.  That war 30 years and change ago cost them more in blood and treasure than would have been spent had it not waited.

Still the responses deemed necessary are "measured," "requisite," or "reciprocal" among other colloquialisms for anything less than victory.  We're now paying the price for somehow believing that a country and a people can be occupied that weren't thoroughly defeated first.  The perception of that continuing battle gives rise to more reaction elsewhere.  And all for a pinprick.

I'm not intending to any way belittle the cost borne by the victims of 9/11.  But it wasn't a strategic attack and it was of little tactical consequence.  It was, as terror attacks almost often are, an attack of perception. 

The economy wasn't damaged greatly.  The number killed were surprisingly fewer than most believed would be the case when the towers fell.  And barring a few indignities at airports or borders and a few legislative and executive overreaches that the Supreme Court will eventually distill in calmer days the day to day lives of the average citizen didn't change much.

The attacks did put the U.S. at war.  In many ways unfortunately, however, I say it did not put the nation at war.  Only the armed forces.  The nation out of uniform continued on much the same.  Which is part of the reason the response has been as restrained as it has.  A nation at war behaves much differently than does an Army under orders at war abroad.

Yes, the US response has been restrained.   Years of continued low intensity COIN warfare is restrained relative to what an American nation under draft and fully engaged might demand.  Counter insurgency ops worried about damaging prayer sites as much as capturing insurgents is restrained.

In some cases, as against the example of Rome cited above, that type of restraint is laudatory.  In other cases, however, it's just dumb.  It's also sanctimonious and hypocritical for those of us at home to judge the effects of the efforts too harshly when efforts of the magnitude generally practiced are the limits of how angry we really got.

Just think what we'd be demanding and how different the response might have been if our enemies had put a thousand only moderately trained souls to task running loose around the country setting fires in movie theaters full of children in rural small towns, opening fire randomly in restaurants, rigging boats to explode by vacationers in civilian lakes and rivers and all the other soft target indiscriminate attacks against you and me and our children the mind could conjure. 

Such things could go on for a long time.  We'd be all watching the other.  We'd be demanding greater response at home and abroad from national and local authority.  Instead we fight the fight we do because our enemy didn't understand and employed flawed tactics on 9/11.

Thank goodness for an enemy as flawed as it is.  With the restrictions we place on ourselves those flaws hurt him less than they should though.  But none of it is as simple as saying we "should" do more or we "could" win this yesterday if it weren't just for things done or not done.

Shannon is absolutely right.  It is a "civil" war of global proportion that is in our future.  In the most literal of meanings.  "Civil" and social rationales (and irrationalities) are the drivers.  Such will, eventually, take something more than a measured and professional military response.  At least it better.  Because if a professional military response is loosed to defeat that kind of enemy the battlefield is vacant, cleared and sterile when the battle is done.  No one and nothing is left.  That's what Rome tried.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2008, 05:10:00 PM »

 :zwtf: :furious2: :beatdeadhorse:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 05:47:19 PM »

Sorry Terry, a little "sensationalism" in there for effect. I am not promoting nuking the world here. I'm saying we need to stop worrying about "political correctness" and TCOB! ;)

Hoist! 8)

This has all been done before only it was called the Crusades, two religions of intolerance going at it. If they had nukes back then both sides would have used them and we wouldn't be having this discussion today or ever. As far as I'm concerned this is another reason to hate religion. It seems we all pray to the same god, but we let it get away from us.  Doc
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 07:35:24 PM »

This has all been done before only it was called the Crusades, two religions of intolerance going at it. If they had nukes back then both sides would have used them and we wouldn't be having this discussion today or ever. As far as I'm concerned this is another reason to hate religion. It seems we all pray to the same god, but we let it get away from us.  Doc


Yeah Doc, but tell a fanatic from either side that they both pray to the God of Abraham, or that their prophets are much the same and tell mostly the same stories.  It's a way to get flogged.  Hell, (except for those that don't believe in it), getting zealots from both sides to hate the reasonable might be the only way to get the nut jobs to agree on anything.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2008, 10:53:07 PM »


Yeah Doc, but tell a fanatic from either side that they both pray to the God of Abraham, or that their prophets are much the same and tell mostly the same stories.  It's a way to get flogged.  Hell, (except for those that don't believe in it), getting zealots from both sides to hate the reasonable might be the only way to get the nut jobs to agree on anything.

I can't agree with you more!! Both religions have their roots in Abraham and have killed more people than both world wars. Western civilization has really lost touch with the past, but the Muslims still think the Crusades never ended and have been vigilant about passing the story down to the present generation. Doc
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2008, 12:56:18 PM »

Today, Hilliary made a statement that she was the candidate that could beat the Republicans. I think this is the problem with our thinking these days, they shouldn't be looking to beat a certain party, they should be looking to get elected because they stand for what the majority of Americans want and need. I see good and bad ideas from both parties. Many Americans are letting their party affiliations cloud their judgment, and divide America. Take a good look at the candidates, look at the issues that you feel really strong about, cut thru their B.S. and vote for the person you feel will really work for you regardless of their party!

We don't need a Republican or Democrat, we need better schools, more jobs, alternatives to high gas prices, health care, security at our borders.......!

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2008, 01:24:03 PM »

We don't need a Republican or Democrat, we need better schools, more jobs, alternatives to high gas prices, health care, security at our borders.......!


Exactly!  But, can anyone run and win w/o the support of one of these machines backing them?  This may be the problem that our representative system has evolved into......it's hard not to become over-whelmed and jaded when you realize that the process gives up a President that has all the confusion that involves judges not allowing vote counts and rumors taking out candidates that may be trying to compete by talking of 'issues'.......it appears that we are no longer allowed to have these choices outside of the big political party machines approval.   And the media coverage is a whole 'nother problem (jmho)    :nervous:  spyder
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2008, 04:08:37 PM »

In my opinion, the media pretty much makes or breaks the candidates so what does that say about the media ?

That they give the "general public" (who is that guy, anyway?  :nixweiss:) exactly what they want to feed on.  There's only 2 or 3 news sources I listen to, and I ain't about to post them here.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2008, 04:10:23 PM »

That they give the "general public" (who is that guy, anyway?  :nixweiss:) exactly what they want to feed on.  There's only 2 or 3 news sources I listen to, and I ain't about to post them here.

Must be them damn Hippie sources! ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2008, 04:33:47 PM »

Must be them damn Hippie sources! ;D ;D ;D

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Yea, it's Father Tree's Magic Mushroom Crash Pad...comes on at 11:00PM on a weak FM channel.... :huepfenlol2: :daisy: :beatnik2: :hippy:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2008, 04:37:41 PM »

Come on Terry fess up. I know you've got Brit Hume's autograph in your safe deposit box and buy everything O'Reilly writes    :D

How'd ya' guess, B B?   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :drink:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2008, 05:01:53 PM »

I wonder what would happen if all the good guys of the world were to put out the word that if any more threats were made about disrupting the normal flow of civilization, each and every one of the good guys were going to shoot a bad guy.
of thier own choice.
just one.
that day. 
at noon. 
twice.
maybe three times.
once in each knee and "shooters choice" for the third round.

I wonder....

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2008, 05:05:51 PM »

From the reactions to some of my recent posts....I'd go hide... :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2008, 05:11:27 PM »

I wonder what would happen if all the good guys of the world were to put out the word that if any more threats were made about disrupting the normal flow of civilization, each and every one of the good guys were going to shoot a bad guy.
of thier own choice.
just one.
that day. 
at noon. 
twice.
maybe three times.
once in each knee and "shooters choice" for the third round.

I wonder....


Can I have Terry's ??  :nixweiss:  :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2008, 05:19:35 PM »

From the reactions to some of my recent posts....I'd go hide... :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That's funny! ;)

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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2008, 05:54:50 PM »

Can I have Terry's ??  :nixweiss:  :huepfenlol2:
Terry's 'what'?  :nixweiss: har!  :drink: spyder
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2008, 06:37:04 PM »

Terry's 'what'?  :nixweiss: har!  :drink: spyder
Terry's "one bad guy"
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »

Ahhh,   I think we have successfully answered THAT question.!.!..!   

  :furious:   :rifle:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2008, 11:21:12 PM »

Where can I buy 5000 rounds of .270 Winchester 180 grain cheap ?
Pick up a Shotgun News.......I buy the wooden case lots.  Different places run 'specials'.  We have gun shows around these parts, don't know about SoCal.  :-\ spyder
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2008, 05:26:07 PM »

We'll never forget.
  :devil:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2008, 05:54:10 PM »

We'll never forget.
  :devil:

G-d damn right Charlie! Ooh, how I still cringe every time I see that in picture or video! >:(

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2008, 05:57:02 PM »

We Americans have a tendency to have short memories...it needs to be jarred every once in a while to remember why we're doing what we're doing.
  :devil:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2008, 06:23:01 PM »

We Americans have a tendency to have short memories...it needs to be jarred every once in a while to remember why we're doing what we're doing.
  :devil:
Can I have a Amen!!!!!!!!!!! Most prolific post to date!!!!!!!!!!  IMHO  :drink:
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2008, 06:56:30 PM »

In this day and age it is so easy to forget.  Have you Forgotten?


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/346342/have_you_forgotten/

For some reason I watched CNN that morning, I never watch during the day, I saw the second plane hit live.

We wanted to know what we could do… the Mayor got on TV and said “we need tourists back, we need you to start the economy again”, so wifey and I packed up and flew down one week after it happened.

This is something that I will never personally forget, nor has it weakened in memory as it approaches the seven year anniversary.

Sadly, I look around and many have forgotten, thanks for the link.
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Re: Dakar Rally Canceled
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2008, 07:34:52 PM »

For some reason I watched CNN that morning, I never watch during the day, I saw the second plane hit live.

We wanted to know what we could do… the Mayor got on TV and said “we need tourists back, we need you to start the economy again”, so wifey and I packed up and flew down one week after it happened.

This is something that I will never personally forget, nor has it weakened in memory as it approaches the seven year anniversary.

Sadly, I look around and many have forgotten, thanks for the link.


And I'd like to thank you for that Murph! The city was devastated for awhile. I lost some friends down there. We had a 49,000 ton Air Conditioning Plant there. Our guys were down there with breathing apparatus and robots to retrieve the thousands of lbs. of freon still in our machines. The machines were still intact, a testament to those old York chillers!

Downtown was closed for weeks to everyone but rescue workers, then months more unless you worked down there. People were not allowed to return to their homes down there for quite a while either.

I'll never forget this as long as I live. I get goose bumps as I write this and still want to kill all those MF's that did this. So don't talk about religion as if it applies to these religious fanatics! What they do is not in the name of religion. That's the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. And these fanatic psychos need to be wiped off the earth like a plague does!!!

And thank you all for your support after this atrocity. And even more, thank you to all the men and women that stand up every day and defend this great nation and my freedom! I salute you all!!! :2vrolijk_21:

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