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Author Topic: Info on the latest Indians  (Read 26854 times)

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Skipper

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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #195 on: August 23, 2013, 10:39:06 AM »

They are counting on International sales as well. Before they have tree Dealership in Europe and now 15 in Germany and Austria only! IMO Indian will have a great success in Europe.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #196 on: August 23, 2013, 01:22:14 PM »

Why does anyone think that Indian must have "stand alone" dealerships?  The dealership in Birmingham is a large one and they sell Ducati, Suzuki, Yamaha, just to name three, and are picking up the Indian line as well.  With basically three models available presently, a stand alone dealership just doesn't make economic sense for either Indian or a dealer who wants the brand.  HD has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 models, a huge clothing line, hundreds of add on parts, etc.  If I owned a Honda/Yamaha dealership, I would be very interested in the Indian to capture those buyers who might otherwise buy a Harley, or those who are leaving the HD brand for whatever reason but still want to buy "American".

While HD may have hundreds of dealers across the country, how many of them are GOOD dealers with regards to service?  I know people who will drive/ride a hundred miles or more to a dealer who actually gives a chit when they may have a local dealer 5 miles from their home.  HD "sells" more motorcycles than any other brand, but, if I'm not mistaken, they consider a "sale" to be a delivery to a dealer, not to a customer.

I seriously doubt that Indian will have any stand alone dealerships anytime soon, if ever.  It's just not necessary.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #197 on: August 24, 2013, 07:56:30 AM »

Why does anyone think that Indian must have "stand alone" dealerships?  The dealership in Birmingham is a large one and they sell Ducati, Suzuki, Yamaha, just to name three, and are picking up the Indian line as well.  With basically three models available presently, a stand alone dealership just doesn't make economic sense for either Indian or a dealer who wants the brand.  HD has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 models, a huge clothing line, hundreds of add on parts, etc.  If I owned a Honda/Yamaha dealership, I would be very interested in the Indian to capture those buyers who might otherwise buy a Harley, or those who are leaving the HD brand for whatever reason but still want to buy "American".

While HD may have hundreds of dealers across the country, how many of them are GOOD dealers with regards to service?  I know people who will drive/ride a hundred miles or more to a dealer who actually gives a chit when they may have a local dealer 5 miles from their home.  HD "sells" more motorcycles than any other brand, but, if I'm not mistaken, they consider a "sale" to be a delivery to a dealer, not to a customer.

I seriously doubt that Indian will have any stand alone dealerships anytime soon, if ever.  It's just not necessary.

Good point, Terry. Getting into all of the power sports dealers is a much quicker way to build out the dealership network. Independent Indian dealerships would have a hard time making a living with only three bikes in the lineup, and little in the way of accessories and clothing to offer.

I hope they don't follow Harley and try to build a bunch of expensive, exclusive Mega-Shrines...

Ken
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LabRat

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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #198 on: August 24, 2013, 08:02:00 AM »

Keep in mind that the independent dealerships also service/sell used KM and Gilroy bikes in addition to the new Spirit Lake bikes. My guess is there will be a mix depending on market. The North Jersey and Charlotte NC dealers don't seem to have trouble staying as an independent dealer, other markets won't be the same.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2013, 08:53:17 AM »

Part 1:

Went for a demo ride at the Indian dealer in North Jersey. It was pretty crowded with lots of HD's, a couple Vic's and a one or two Wings in the parking lot. Oh, this was one VERY old, freakin' awesome HD that someone rode in. I was surprised at the crowd for a Friday morning.

The ride was escorted by motor officers from the city and that was a very good thing because THE TRAFFIC SUCKS AS DO THE ROADS IN NORTH JERSEY. The test ride was about 10 and went through the town and then a quick trip on the Garden State Parkway.

I did 2 demo rides and would recommend that if interested in the bike. My first ride was really just getting acquainted with the bike and controls. Felt much more at home on the second ride. I rode a Chieftain both times, each had fishtail pipes which are optional. As much as I love the looks of the Vintage, but my CVO isn't a garage queen and I ride rain or shine so a fairing'd bike with hard, lockable bags suits my riding style better.
Bike was very comfortable. The seat was great and the quality of the leather fantastic - now before you jump and say that 2 15-20 minute rides is no way to judge a seat, I had just come 130 miles on my bike to do the demo. The seat was very comfortable, no pinch points and a very good solid feel. I mention this because when I got back on my bike to ride home, my seat didn't feel comfortable anymore. I still have my stock seat and don't have issues putting several hundred miles a day on her.

The bike probably fits average sized riders best. Seat height is only 26" compared to nearly 30" on my Ultra. I'm about 5'6", so the lower seat was nice and gave a feel you were sitting in the bike rather than on top of the bike. That being said, I had more leg room on the Indian.

My bike had the short windshield in the fairing and I rode with it all the way lowered it was down around my chin, but even on the highway, air flow was very good with no buffeting. I didn't raise it up while on the highway, but did so on the local road and would work in a rain storm - I just don't like looking through a shield. By comparison, I have a LRS X-stream shield in my Ultra that is about the same height. Those not familiar with that shield, it is a serious recurve that works great and was amazed that the 'flat' stock shield on the Indian performed as well. Having the ability to move a shield up/down is a plus.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2013, 08:54:35 AM »

Part 2:

The bars are much different than on my Ultra and were strange at first, but felt good and riding position was good, more upright than I am on my Ultra. If you are a forward lean kinda rider, like I am on my Bro's Roadglide, you might not like the riding position. The bars seamed narrower than what I was used to, but again, was comfortable.

Bike has gobs of power, lots of torque and smooth as hell, almost too smooth. It's power is on par with my 110" and that's factory vs. a Stage 1 and dyno tune on my 110". While this is seat of the pants, the dyno curves on the TS111 look better than my 110" post mods. You can feel the transmission, but it doesn't clunk like a Harley and neutral was easy to find. The engine is quiet. Not the exhaust, but the engine. The valve train on my 110" is noisy as hell and overall a lot of noise from the engine that took me a while to accept as "normal". The TS111 didn't have a lot of extraneous noise, just the exhaust. That being said, the transmission had a very different sound. Very hard to explain but somewhat of a whining sound. Our Cayenne had a similar sound, it's like a rubber band wound very tight that has power just waiting to be set free. Again, hard to describe, but it is different than a Harley.

You can feel heat off the engine but not nearly as hot as my 110". It was about 86 outside and the bikes weren't allowed to cool down much before the next group of riders took them out. You really didn't feel the heat moving, it was just when stopped.

The rider controls are very different and need to get used to. But then again the 2014 HD controls with the two nipples to play with are all different as well. I thought there were a lot of controls on an Ultra, but this blows that away. I'm not crazy about the turn signals together on the left. They are self cancelling - I tried to leave them on, and they did cancel. Most of your controls are on your left with the right reserved mainly for cruise control and starting the bike. Oh, as far as starting the bike. I know many have joked about the push button start, but the push button isn't a start, but a power button. Much like our big ignition knob at the top of the forks. Starting the bike is as on any other bike, on the right. One of the things I never liked about the Vics was that the controls looked like after thoughts. Not the case with the Indians. They are all part of the same, very nicely chromed housing.

The bike feels much lighter than it really is. Both getting it off the side stand and feel of the bars. It's about the same weight as my Ultra, but feels much less. The weight is lower and think this would be a big plus for petite female riders that don't feel comfortable an E-glide or other big twin for that matter. It's also very well balanced.

The Chieftain rides in Dunlop Elite 3's. I put these on my CVO a few years back and they are awesome tires. Great traction and much better for the aggressive geezer glide rider than the one's the put as stock on the HD's without giving up black slab comfort. The tires fit well with the handling of the bike. This bike is quick into turns and very easy to hold those turns. It has a very good lean angle (don't ask me what it is, I have no clue) and is very comfortable laying it over. Yes I ride a geezer glide, but the metal scrapped from the bottoms of my floorboards can attest I like to push her limits. The Chieftain just felt even better. It is just a very nimble bike. I'm not sure how the Chief rides with the additional rake, but assume it will be different.

Overall, this is a fantastic bike. Is it a Harley, no and it's not trying to be a Harley. The fit and finish on these bikes were very good and the engine pulls like a freight train.

Some of the things I didn't like:
No optional tourpack, but was told it is coming.
No heel shifter. I use mine all the time, so I really missed that.
The placement of the side stand when up is not in a great position and found myself "looking" for it with my foot. It's like it's tucked a little too far under the transmission.

So I left and got on my bike to head home thinking could I really be happy with an Indian Chieftain, particularly stepping from a CVO Ultra? The CVO has so much "bling" and the Chieftain is just a classic looking bike. Then no sooner did I hit the Garden State Parkway, Friday traffic hit. The Parkway was a crawl and the turnpike south was a parking lot. Now this is normal, but I could start to feel my 110" heating up. She starts with the neutral light beginning to flicker, then parade mode kicks in when I sit long enough at idle and I start thinking - Oh chit, wonder if my clutch will go out AGAIN. Luckily I just had the fluids changed, so I didn't lose my clutch and was able to get her cooled down once traffic began moving again. That's when I thought, yes, I could be happy with a Chieftain.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2013, 09:06:37 AM »

Very thorough ride report, John. Looks like Indian may skim off some of Harley's business with these new bikes.

Thanks!

Ken
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2013, 09:22:21 AM »

Thanks, I tried to be fair. I'm just not "feeling the love" with the CVO Ultra Classics since they brought out the Limited and put 103" in all the bikes. Back in the day when the production line at a TC96 and the CVO's had the 110" with all the bling and parts limited to CVOs there was clear distinction between the bikes to justify the additional cost. Now days, not so much. This has caused me to look beyond the HD line as I strive for a more unique bike.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2013, 09:39:26 AM »

Really well done 2 part report that I would totally agree with after riding the Vintage.  My only two asks would be a dealer close by and some more accesories but both will come with time.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #204 on: August 24, 2013, 11:37:44 AM »

Great report on your test ride.  Thanks for the unbiased opinion.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #205 on: August 24, 2013, 12:32:20 PM »

Great report on your test ride.  Thanks for the unbiased opinion.   :2vrolijk_21:
Not as well received over on the HDForums  ;D
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #206 on: August 24, 2013, 12:36:51 PM »

Not as well received over on the HDForums  ;D

Not surprised. I am on there too, same ID, but rarely visit anymore. Lots of crap posted over there, especially in the Touring forum. Not worth my time.

Ken
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2013, 01:52:47 PM »

Thanks, I tried to be fair. I'm just not "feeling the love" with the CVO Ultra Classics since they brought out the Limited and put 103" in all the bikes. Back in the day when the production line at a TC96 and the CVO's had the 110" with all the bling and parts limited to CVOs there was clear distinction between the bikes to justify the additional cost. Now days, not so much. This has caused me to look beyond the HD line as I strive for a more unique bike.

X2.  I thought the same thing on the '14 Ultra Ltd. vs the CVO Ltd.  Granted you're getting some more bling, but engine-wise only 7 more c.i.  Just not sure if there's enough of a difference to pony up 40k for the CVO.  Time will tell.
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Re: Info on the latest Indians
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2013, 01:54:43 PM »

Not to mention, the 103" is a much better engine stock and better platform to build from.
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