Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[gpopvet]

Anybody out there running a Baker 7 speed, I am converting my bike to a Harley 117 and my dealership is telling me to add a Baker 7 speed and the ride will be smoother and no more high rpms in 6th gear. I am looking for advice.

[backroad Mike]

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be along shortly, but I think you'll find the DD7 has the same or close to same gear radio in 7th, as the HD 6th speed.  The difference in the DD7 is First through 6th.  There may be some other calibration issues necessary for cruise to work properly as well.

[kiro]

I don't have the Baker 7-speed because I went with their F6R reverse kit - can't have both or I would have purchased one. Did a lot of research at the time and guys who run the 7-speed indicate it's all good - really smooth. Single greatest difference appears to be between first and second gear allowing much quicker take off. 7th gear is similar to 6th you have now & Backyard Mike is correct in his cruise comment, but there is a work around I'm told. 

[Yellow09SERG]

I run the DD7 and love it, but I think the dealership is confused or misinformed on the tranny. The final ratio in 7th is exactly the same as the Cruise Drive in 6th so the RPM's are the same. The difference starts in the bottom with first gear of the DD7 being lower than that of the Cruise Drive and all the other ratios in between being closer together. If you are a solo rider or Interstate rider it would be hard to justify. If you ride 2up or pull a trailer 2up, which I do both of, it is easy to justify and it will make you smile. I actually am running a cam that is way to big and the DD7 covers it.

[Classic Beast]

DD7 works great everywhere gives a lower first and second, 7th is 1:1 the same as the factory 6speed. I should have put this in the day I got the bike, it's so good.

[Para Bellum]

I've been running a DD-7 for about 4 years.  It won't make the ride smoother, and it won't change the RPMs in 7th compared to the Cruise-Drive's 6th.

The difference between the 2 trannys is that DD-7 has a 12% lower 1st gear than the CD-6, and Baker says theirs is built stronger, so it will handle a much stronger engine.  For that reason, some shops recommend the -7 behind larger engines, such as 124 and 131 CI.

I like my -7 just fine, but for the cost of purchase and install, would I do it again?  Probably not.  Some people say "Well, you can sell the CD-6 and offset the cost," but then the -7 goes with the old bike when you sell/trade, unless you swap it to the new--if possible.

This thread has some info about the work-around to (try) to get the cruise control working again:  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=105703.0.  Good luck with your choice.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

TTS tuner has a setting just for the DD7 trans now so there is no math needed for the end user to figure out the right ratio to get cruise & correct speedo readings and the 6th gear light  to work.  As for the trans its much stronger unit, trap door is one huge upgrade over the stock cruise drive units. If you only want to upgrade that its a great idea.

[FlaHeatWave]

'Running the DD7 in the '09 SERG for 24k mi. now. If you ever run the DD7 in a loaded bagger, you will be spoiled... A gear for every situation...

Oasis Cycles in Brandon, MS has the work around for the cruise, and very competitive pricing, Oasis is Baker's #1 Seller...

[Spiderman]

In 1985 I rode a four speed shovelhead to Sturgis from Maine. I don't remember it being a bad trip on either my ass or my hands

Now we're talking 7-speeds ?  No aspersions cast on anyone but short of traveling at 120 mph coast to coast OR going 4 wheeling somehow with a 2 wheel vehicle I cannot possibly imagine any need for 7 gears. chit my Cadillac CTS Sport only has 6
I understand the issue of quality over stock. I love the Baker DD6 and the trap door got me all hot and bothered LOL. Nothing beats quality work and products. I also read the comment about a gear for every situation but in my mind, all I am seeing is constant shifting.

B B

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I have a Primo 6 speed in my shovel..  great gear split and can run 85 MPH without issue.. yes on grades I have to start shifting the 48 hp little engine does not have much to work with.  Heck look at the new fords 10 speed auto is being used.

[FlaHeatWave]

In 1985 I rode a four speed shovelhead to Sturgis from Maine. I don't remember it being a bad trip on either my ass or my hands

Now we're talking 7-speeds ?  No aspersions cast on anyone but short of traveling at 120 mph coast to coast OR going 4 wheeling somehow with a 2 wheel vehicle I cannot possibly imagine any need for 7 gears. chit my Cadillac CTS Sport only has 6
I understand the issue of quality over stock. I love the Baker DD6 and the trap door got me all hot and bothered LOL. Nothing beats quality work and products. I also read the comment about a gear for every situation but in my mind, all I am seeing is constant shifting.

B B

Yea, I ran a 4 speed  Shovel for over 15 years ...
Have you ever ridden a DD7?

[MrSurly]

As for the trans its much stronger unit, trap door is one huge upgrade over the stock cruise drive units.

Ok, I'm curious now. Obviously, the Baker door is substantially stronger, but is failure of the CD door an actual issue?
Are only 'built' engines killing them?
At what torque level does it become critical?

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I have seen failures in the trap door on stage II bikes as well built bikes. I had a CVO 110 with 10.5 pistons 259 cam on the drum and it locked the trans up. Trap door bearing failure...   The ghost lever on a non HYD clutch is the trap door flexing.. You can take a basic 103 stage 1 bike or even stock for that matter. Roll on the bike moderately in 3 gear keep tension on the lever and the lever will come into towards the grip. Rolls off the throttle and the lever snaps back out..  That is flex in the trap door.

[MrSurly]

You can take a basic 103 stage 1 bike or even stock for that matter. Roll on the bike moderately in 3 gear keep tension on the lever and the lever will come into towards the grip. Rolls off the throttle and the lever snaps back out..  That is flex in the trap door.

That's interesting. I have something similar going on with my (hydraulic) "built" 113. I've blamed it on my Scorpion VPC changing the clamping on the pressure plate.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

its harder to feel on the hyd set up but yes it will do it there as well

[MrSurly]

While following the info-trail on this topic, I happened to read the FAQs at Baker and found this bit enlightening
(emphasis added)
<<<

"Q: Do you recommend the new Harley SYN 3 oil?

A: No. SYN 3 is a 20W50 multi-use full synthetic oil that can be used in the transmission, primary, and the engine according to the Factory. SYN 3 is convenient in that only one oil type need be used in the engine and drive train. Like most things in life, the trade for this convenience is compromise. 20W50 works OK in the engine but is way too thin to be effective in the transmission and primary under cold and hot operating conditions. If the convenience of having one type of oil in your garage out weighs your patriotic obligation to take good care of your bike, you should consider selling your Harley so you can buy a Toyota Prius. Then you can join the Peace Corps and help orphaned children with dysentery in Zimbabwe.
>>>>>

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Trans need a fluid that has a GL rating . I know that many do not follow that and run amsoil or syn 3 but I agree too thin, syn oil in the primary can create clutch slippage as well.. I feel you the engine oil in the engine. Run a GL in the trans and a lube designed for the primary .  But heck that is common sense ...  HA HA .. 


In stock units I tend to run a thicker lube , the Baker std weights work just fine.. Pick a flavor go from there

[Spiderman]

I remember when we made a big deal about Japanese bikes havin a five speed trans vice the four speed in a Harley. Or if you put a nice four speed in your hot car.  Nowadays my Cadillac has an 8 speed automatic and people here are touting 7 speed manual shift for their Harleys. Where does it end ?

B B

[MrSurly]

Where does it end ?

Hopefully, it doesn't!

[Badger Mike]

I run a DD7 on my 2010, with a S&S 124 and Barnett clutch and 30T.  It works fine if tuned correctly, see Fuel Moto if you want a really good tune.  Given the size and power of my bike, it was not worth it as I'm in and out of 1st gear so fast that it's really useless.  So my advice would be if you are looking at this as your solution to low end help, then it's good.  If you have other mods, it may not be worth it.

[Road Dad]

Comparing the gear ratios I wonder why I would spend the money on a DD7?  It really looks like wasted money 

The ride is smooth as it is. (And if your ride on a new HD is not smooth it's probably not the bikes fault)

So why is this worth the money?

[MrSurly]

I don't have one but I understand that they have less rotating mass, a stronger door and are claimed to be smoother shifting.
I'd like to try one for a while.

[Badger Mike]

Baker is definitely a better transmission than your stock HD.  All you said is true, and would be the same if you went with a Baker 6 speed.

[Road Dad]

I hear that but why is it better?  What makes it better?

Baker is definitely a better transmission than your stock HD.  All you said is true, and would be the same if you went with a Baker 6 speed.

[Badger Mike]

I can't speak to the mechanics of it.  All I can tell you is that it is smoother shifting, no "clunk" into gear, and easy to find neutral.  I hear good things about the reliability as well.

[Road Dad]

But none of that is a reason to spend the money in my opinion    I have no problem finding neutral. (Not that I need to, I never leave a manual in neutral, car or bike for obvious reasons) and I no problem shifting gears either. (Never had in all the HDs I owned)

I buy tons of chrome crap for my bike that does not make a difference either but for some reason I think a transmission should provide more than just a name?

I can't speak to the mechanics of it.  All I can tell you is that it is smoother shifting, no "clunk" into gear, and easy to find neutral.  I hear good things about the reliability as well.

[Badger Mike]

Then I would highly suggest you not purchase one

[Road Dad]

Well if there is no reason to I will not. 

Then I would highly suggest you not purchase one

[Yellow09SERG]

But none of that is a reason to spend the money in my opinion    I have no problem finding neutral. (Not that I need to, I never leave a manual in neutral, car or bike for obvious reasons) and I no problem shifting gears either. (Never had in all the HDs I owned)

I buy tons of chrome crap for my bike that does not make a difference either but for some reason I think a transmission should provide more than just a name?

It may not be the tranny for you. But for those of us that every time the bike is started its 2up and you have close to 450 lbs climbing on it plus whatever the weight of whatever junk that gets thrown on or the junk that alway seems to come back home with us from the garage sale that the wife makes me turn around for so she can just "LOOK". The feeling of the close ratio gears is also a great feeling when that same 450 is on the bike and the trailer is tied on behind and you start up a set of switch backs that run up the side of a mountain. Those gears feel very good there. I wouldn't say that the DD7 is for all because it's not but for those that use a bike under a load....its really nice.

[Spiderman]

I'm curious about something.
Since everyone seems to have their own idea of what the best gearing would be - - -
Can you custom order your gears ?  I can't see why not if Baker makes the gear you want.
Seems like you should be able to order every gear the way you want it
Understand that I have taken transmissions apart and put them back together so I know how they work
and I don't see a problem with only certain gear ratios being compatible but I'll listen for sure if I'm wrong

B B

[twinotter]

I can definitely see an advantage in the 7speed on a 103, heavily loaded. If your running a 117 or 124, I see no reason to do the 7, as both motors will supply adequate (more than) to run the stock 6 speed.
 Havind said that, the 6 spd imo, needs the trap door upgraded, especially if you are upping the power levels.
My buddies 106 showed variable clutch releases and noise at 43K with 100hp. We replaced the stock door with a JIMS unit (has to be twice as beefy) and the noise and clutch quirks went away. We both think under load, the stock door was flexing. It also shifts smoother and easier now. fwiw twinotter

[Major Tom]

Having predominately ridden 4,5 & 6 speed factory gear boxes I was pleasantly surprised when Heatwave was kind enough to let myself and Miss Lenda have a turn on his 09 with the DD7. We were travelling so had some gear on board and I am not a skinny person so it had some weight on board. My impression, smooth, no clunking, car park friendly and spread nicely up to top which is the same as Lucille's 6th. I very much liked the lower 1st.

Will I go out and buy one right now? No. If I were to build from scratch or had to change out Lucille's gear box or decide to ditch the house & become a full time nomadic motorcycle enthusiast (now there's a thought), then yes that's the way I would go. It is definitely better than stock, especially for those who do a lot of two up riding outside their zipcode.

Go and ride one and make your mind up if it makes sense for you and your set up.

Either way keep the meat on the seat.

Cheers Major Tom

[grc]

    It's amusing to see how things never really change.  First we had four speed transmissions and managed to do just fine with those, then someone finally decided to add a fifth gear and we did just fine with that for many years (even though some folks constantly bitched about "high rpms" at highway speeds).  Coming from Japanese bikes, I had to laugh at those folks who thought 3000 rpm on the highway was excessive.  Then Harley decided to copy the Baker folks (idea only, not the quality) and went to an overdriven primary and a six speed gearbox for 2007, which has lead to all kinds of problems we didn't have on the five speed units.  Lousy compensator, IPB failures, lousy ratio choices in the box, and much weaker components in the box as well.  Now we have the aftermarket offering seven speed boxes, to fix the lousy ratio choices Harley made with their offering.  Thanks to the cheapening process at Harley that makes some gears part of the shaft, you can't go to Andrews or others and just change gears to fix the first and second gear ratios.  Yes, Baker makes nice stuff of much higher quality than Harley could even imagine.  But for most folks who don't tow trailers or run through the mountains with six hundred pounds of people and gear, it's a big chunk of cash for little benefit.  And eventually people who really don't need seven speeds will get tired of the extra shifting, just like some did when they went from five speeds to six. 

Harley could alleviate much of this waste by fixing the ratio's in the Cruise Drive and then putting the obese motorcycles on a diet.  Constantly enlarging engines just to stay even with the increases in weight is a losing proposition.  Cut a couple hundred pounds from the nearly half ton weight of a late model touring model and they would get a very nice improvement in performance without spending a dime on the engine, brakes, etc.

Btw, a smart company wouldn't use the same gear box and ratio's for the six hundred pound bikes and the over nine hundred pound bikes, but no one ever said the folks at Harley were very smart when it came to engineering.

JMHO - Jerry

[KEB]

For all that no one has mentioned that the ECU has to be reset to fool it as to what gear its in or you will loose your cruise control. Baker has no idea what it is that needs to be done, they think the cruise works fine but it doesn't. You will have to buy a tuner to change the ECU gear ratios which if you don't already have one is an additional cost. The SE tuner won't do it, you'll need a power vision or similar aftermarket tuner.

[FlaHeatWave]

   It's amusing to see how things never really change.  First we had four speed transmissions and managed to do just fine with those, then someone finally decided to add a fifth gear and we did just fine with that for many years (even though some folks constantly bitched about "high rpms" at highway speeds).  Coming from Japanese bikes, I had to laugh at those folks who thought 3000 rpm on the highway was excessive.  Then Harley decided to copy the Baker folks (idea only, not the quality) and went to an overdriven primary and a six speed gearbox for 2007, which has lead to all kinds of problems we didn't have on the five speed units.  Lousy compensator, IPB failures, lousy ratio choices in the box, and much weaker components in the box as well.  Now we have the aftermarket offering seven speed boxes, to fix the lousy ratio choices Harley made with their offering.  Thanks to the cheapening process at Harley that makes some gears part of the shaft, you can't go to Andrews or others and just change gears to fix the first and second gear ratios.  Yes, Baker makes nice stuff of much higher quality than Harley could even imagine.  But for most folks who don't tow trailers or run through the mountains with six hundred pounds of people and gear, it's a big chunk of cash for little benefit.  And eventually people who really don't need seven speeds will get tired of the extra shifting, just like some did when they went from five speeds to six. 

Harley could alleviate much of this waste by fixing the ratio's in the Cruise Drive and then putting the obese motorcycles on a diet.  Constantly enlarging engines just to stay even with the increases in weight is a losing proposition.  Cut a couple hundred pounds from the nearly half ton weight of a late model touring model and they would get a very nice improvement in performance without spending a dime on the engine, brakes, etc.

Btw, a smart company wouldn't use the same gear box and ratio's for the six hundred pound bikes and the over nine hundred pound bikes, but no one ever said the folks at Harley were very smart when it came to engineering.

JMHO - Jerry

Well Jerry, since you have an automotive background let's talk cars for a minute...
The first Corvette had a 2-speed Powerglide, the new Corvette has an eight-speed automatic... the new Corvette is "somewhat more responsive" than the original... in fact the new Corvette will smoke the Formula 1 cars of the fifties everywhere... so what's wrong with advances in technology??

It cracks me up all the hatein' going on here  by folks that have never ridden a dd7 in a loaded bagger...

Especially on this site, why buy a CVO when the standard Harleys are "adequate"??

'Currently have 5, 6 and 7 speeds in the Harley stable, to me, they are perfectly suited to those bikes and the way I use them...

Now do I think that the dd7 is the perfect transmission for everybody /every bike? Absolutely not! But, in the 09, for the way I use it, it's a couple steps above anything else...

[grc]

Nothing wrong with advances in technology (most of the time), except when it's just change for the sake of change like some of the electronic doo-dads they keep adding to cars these days that are in fact a step backwards.  My point was that many folks on this site who do not use their bikes the way you do will be convinced to spend a pile of money on something they don't need, and they might get tired of having to make more shifts.  Harley could have fixed the ratio issue in production, but didn't.  They could have used a stronger trans door and bearing setup in production, but didn't.  I think we all know why.

Notice that in the auto arena we're seeing six and eight speed automatic transmissions, and possibly more in the near future.  The big difference is the automatic part.  The driver doesn't have to provide any more input on that eight speed automatic than he did on that old PowerSlide back in the day.  It is one hell of a lot better transmission, and in this case technology has provided something useful to anyone driving the car, albeit at a cost. 

For those like you who have unique riding requirements that the Baker fills, and who don't mind the expense, Baker makes great products of much higher quality than anything Harley sells.  You seem to be happy with your choice, and I'm fine with that.  My comments weren't aimed at you or anyone else in particular, just a statement of how I view the situation overall.  I'm not "hatin' on Baker", in fact I think they make some excellent products and have recommended them to others in the past.

Jerry

[Yellow09SERG]

Jerry, I have to agree with you. It is not the tranny for everyone. But as I said in a earlier post for those of us that are loading the bike on a regular bases as Ed and myself do it fits the bill perfectly where the Harley tranny leaves us hanging. Would I buy the tranny for a softail or a dyna....no way waste of money and much bigger bang for buck to be found in other places. For my bagger with the way its ridden...worth every penny and if I were to every replace the 09 and Harley hasn't fixed the ratio problem, it would be the second thing fixed right behind pipes

[FlaHeatWave]

I agree 100% with everything the both of you said ' just said it differently LOL

Jerry, The hating comment was definitely not directed at you... I should have put it in a separate post when I was quoting you, sorry...

[Classic Beast]

in my 75 shovel I put in the Andrews 1st and 3rd it made a world of difference in the 4 speed with the 96". It's easy to find reasons not to get the DD7 or anything else for that matter, I just wish I would have put it in the day I got the bike, with a loaded bagger, 2 up and stock 103 that lower first gear makes a huge difference especially on the hills in Vancouver, the gear spacing seems perfect and it shifts so smooth, most of the time not a sound when shifting gears.

[MrSurly]

I run a DD7 on my 2010, with a S&S 124 and Barnett clutch and 30T.  It works fine if tuned correctly, see Fuel Moto if you want a really good tune.  Given the size and power of my bike, it was not worth it as I'm in and out of 1st gear so fast that it's really useless.  So my advice would be if you are looking at this as your solution to low end help, then it's good.  If you have other mods, it may not be worth it.

I was struck by your complaint that first gear is now *too* short.
The DD7 lowers the first gear ratio about 12%... but I noticed that you *ALSO* did the 30 tooth sprocket conversion (if I read that right)... and that provides another 10% reduction (over all gears). I'd bet that your first gear DOES seem especially short.
I'm wondering if you've considered swapping the stock 32 toothed sprocket back on to compare?

[smiley1049]

When I did my DD7 I put my 32 tooth back on made it great for taking off
Chuck