www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: naitram on August 24, 2016, 09:17:34 AM
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
Some more pics
-
Some more pics
-
Some more pics
-
Some more pics
-
Wonder if they think that slotted stater rotor will help keep the windings cooler?
-
With the moco statement that no valve adjustment required for the life of the engine leads me to conclude that there is no lash control for each individual valve - only the control from the hydraulic lifter on a single pushrod that operates two valves. The rocker arms have to control two valves and they better be very precisely made else the valves may not be totally synchronized due to slight differences in spring pressure, stack tolerances, etc. Hopefully the moco has addressed this potential problem and has designed and manufactured it to such tolerances that it will not be a problem. Time will tell.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DqCYcOVrPE
-
Thanks guys very informative.
BigLew
-
Thanks guys very informative.
BigLew
X2! Later--HUBBARD
-
I don't have time to watch the whole propaganda video....so, cut to the chase; What are the HP & TQ numbers for both 107 & 114?
-
With the moco statement that no valve adjustment required for the life of the engine leads me to conclude that there is no lash control for each individual valve - only the control from the hydraulic lifter on a single pushrod that operates two valves. The rocker arms have to control two valves and they better be very precisely made else the valves may not be totally synchronized due to slight differences in spring pressure, stack tolerances, etc. Hopefully the moco has addressed this potential problem and has designed and manufactured it to such tolerances that it will not be a problem. Time will tell.
It looks like beehive springs are used now. It also looks like the standard spring retainer, stem and lock system.
That being said, if you have a common one piece rocker arm with two pads, one for each valve, how do you make sure they BOTH have the same preload on the valve stem?
If one is touching, that means the other rocker pad is not under the same preload. Unless both stem heights are exactly the same height. When you grind valves on the M-8, the stem length I'm sure is going to have to be "adjusted" so that both are in contact with the common rocker shaft with the dual pads.
This seems very complicated and not a good long term way to do it. I could see if one of the rocker pads were to be adjustable on each rocker. Then you could zero the fixed one and then adjust the other to meet that same zero. But without some way to adjust between the two pads and valve stem lengths, how is this going to be done?
I don't see any stem end caps like used on overhead cams that could do this type of sync between the two valves/rocker pads.
What am I missing?
-
A look inside the new H-D Milwaukee Eight
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/harley-davidsons-new-engine
-
From HD germany:
- 103Ci Touring année 2016 : 64kw soit 87cv et 138Nm
- 107Ci Touring année 2017 : 66kw soit 90cv à 5450tr/mn et 150Nm
- 110Ci CVO année 2016 : 72kw soit 98cv et 156Nm
- 114Ci sur CVO année 2017 : 75kw soit 102cv à 5250tr/mn et 165Nm
-
Hi guys! Not sure if this is a good place for this question or not. I asked this question in another topic but never received any answers.
What does the introduction of the 2017 models and the new engine do to the value of new 2016 CVO's still on the dealer floor? What did it do to the value of used 2014- 2016 CVO's?
-
It looks like beehive springs are used now. It also looks like the standard spring retainer, stem and lock system.
That being said, if you have a common one piece rocker arm with two pads, one for each valve, how do you make sure they BOTH have the same preload on the valve stem?
If one is touching, that means the other rocker pad is not under the same preload. Unless both stem heights are exactly the same height. When you grind valves on the M-8, the stem length I'm sure is going to have to be "adjusted" so that both are in contact with the common rocker shaft with the dual pads.
This seems very complicated and not a good long term way to do it. I could see if one of the rocker pads were to be adjustable on each rocker. Then you could zero the fixed one and then adjust the other to meet that same zero. But without some way to adjust between the two pads and valve stem lengths, how is this going to be done?
I don't see any stem end caps like used on overhead cams that could do this type of sync between the two valves/rocker pads.
What am I missing?
I was told early on that one of the rocker tips has an adjuster. I sure don't see it in the pics?
I wonder if there is a lash cap on one or both of the valve stems? There has to be something to sync the
valves. No way the valve job is that tight. Lol..
SG
-
They say there is no adjustment on the rockers at all...
-
Hi guys! Not sure if this is a good place for this question or not. I asked this question in another topic but never received any answers.
What does the introduction of the 2017 models and the new engine do to the value of new 2016 CVO's still on the dealer floor? What did it do to the value of used 2014- 2016 CVO's?
Harley dealers are offering a "free 117 kit" with the purchase of a "new" 2016 CVO
-
I was told early on that one of the rocker tips has an adjuster. I sure don't see it in the pics?
I wonder if there is a lash cap on one or both of the valve stems? There has to be something to sync the
valves. No way the valve job is that tight. Lol..
SG
You would think wouldn't you? Otherwise I'd be afraid, very afraid of this motor. Once you get a bike to check out you can verify. :2vrolijk_21:
-
They say there is no adjustment on the rockers at all...
One article I read had "no adjusters" in its text. Another said there was no expected adjustment necessary during the life of the engine. Those aren't the same thing but it's easy to see how some lazy magazine hack could see the latter about never needing adjustment and sloppily turn it in to "no adjusters."
First guy to actually have the top off one can tell us for sure.
-
By the time the 2019s come out, I'll bet they HAVE an adjustment mechanism for one valve on each rocker.
-
One article I read had "no adjusters" in its text. Another said there was no expected adjustment necessary during the life of the engine. Those aren't the same thing but it's easy to see how some lazy magazine hack could see the latter about never needing adjustment and sloppily turn it in to "no adjusters."
First guy to actually have the top off one can tell us for sure.
In one of the many videos I have seen recently the Harley Representative stated that through a factory fitting process there is no adjustment required for the life of the engine. He also stated that rocker arms that had not been fitted would be available for the performance minded enthusiast to use in the event that there had been modifications (like valves and seats) that had altered the original fitment from the factory.
-
Harley dealers are offering a "free 117 kit" with the purchase of a "new" 2016 CVO
I was at a dealer on Tuesday evening and mentioned this and I received a blank stare of disbelief in return.
-
I was at a dealer on Tuesday evening and mentioned this and I received a blank stare of disbelief in return.
Yeah I bet you did. I'm a little puzzled myself.
BigLew
-
Maybe they are shimming one end or the other of the rocker support shaft. Probably not as that would cock the shaft and side load the valve stem on depression.
-
Unlike many of you, I'm not the least bit surprised. This fits right in with the rest of the company's "close enough for government work" philosophy. Precision is a German thing, and close enough is a Milwaukee thing. After drinking a few of Milwaukee's other famous products everything is close enough.
I want to see some details on the single most important part of the engine. Once we see that, and the tolerances they specify, we will have a better idea of how seriously they've taken the reliability and quality concerns. I'm speaking, of course, about the flywheel assembly or crankshaft.
Jerry
-
Another thing that bothers me. They could never even produce a lifter that could bear the strain of a single valve spring and now it's dealing with the strain of two springs? :nixweiss:
-
I don't have time to watch the whole propaganda video....so, cut to the chase; What are the HP & TQ numbers for both 107 & 114?
Cutting to the chase. Here's the dyno charts from the P&A catalog on the 107 to 114 upgrade kit and the 114 to 117 upgrade kit. My guess is that the aftermarket guys will be making great power out of the 114 without adding displacement. Given the better breathing of the 4 valves plus the addition of a larger TB, larger injectors, 2:1 exhaust, roller rockers and a solid tune, my guess is the aftermarket tuners will get the 114 to exceed 130/130 without breaking a sweat. Lots more power with added displacement. Can anyone say 131"?
-
Here's the 114 to 117 upgrade chart from the P&A catalog
-
So did they actually dyno tune one?
-
So did they actually dyno tune one?
Based on the graph stating "Corrected Rear Wheel HP" I interpret that to mean the engine was dynoed and then they factor in all the losses across the drivetrain to calculate a theoretical HP to the ground at the rear wheel. Probably not exact but I'm guessing it will be pretty close to what well-calibrated dynos will start showing for the M8 bikes.
-
Cycle Rama ran a stock 107 on their Dyno it is posted on their facebook page.
81 HP/ 99 TQ
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14064303_10154413037268890_1775630127764030759_n.jpg?oh=a7632f21c78a67dc223dda4545899289&oe=5844314C
-
I applaud to MOCO. they managed again!
Of course there will be some problems with engine, or transmission, or clutch. The whole point is that, the "soul" still going on, "body" is just temporary thing, it comes and goes in different shapes. The day when they build "perfect" Harley-Davidson, the "soul" will gone. I've learned the lesson. I own a Harley-Davidson does not matter which one, it's a Harley and that is the whole point.
So MOCO keep going on the "soul" thing, I'm not interest for the "body"
Vladimir
-
Cycle Rama ran a stock 107 on their Dyno it is posted on their facebook page.
81 HP/ 99 TQ
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14064303_10154413037268890_1775630127764030759_n.jpg?oh=a7632f21c78a67dc223dda4545899289&oe=5844314C
Almost exactly what the MoCo has for the 107 in the dyno charts from the P&A catalog 80hp/100ft-lbs. And the 114 looks like 89hp/110ft-bs at the rear wheel
-
From the source: ". So now we have one pushrod activating two valves. If you look at the classic design that has this configuration, they put in adjusters. They usually have low adjustment intervals, which are the cost of ownership and a pain in the butt to go in and have stuff done. What we did is that the hydraulic lifters for each pushrod now account for thermal roll from the engine. We have no adjustment. It’s factory set for life. We came up with an arrangement to set for very low lash at the factory and maintain that for the life of the motor."
I was told early on that one of the rocker tips has an adjuster. I sure don't see it in the pics?
I wonder if there is a lash cap on one or both of the valve stems? There has to be something to sync the
valves. No way the valve job is that tight. Lol..
SG
-
Milwaukee-Eight engine 'inside the Factory H-D' video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ1xduQX-a0&feature=youtu.be
-
stage III upgrade info
-
Has anyone seen if HD has released a Screaming Eagle Pro Racing Catalog for 2017? I haven't seen one yet but they will have to provide one unless they intend to tell all their race customers they are on their own.
-
The HD website shows that the Torque of the 114 is 124 ft/lbs, and the 107 is 113 ft/lbs.
-
The HD website shows that the Torque of the 114 is 124 ft/lbs, and the 107 is 113 ft/lbs.
I believe those numbers are at the crank, not the rear wheel. According to the MoCo P&A dyno charts the 107 is 100ft-lbs and the 114 is 110ft-lbs at the rear wheel.
-
Another thing that bothers me. They could never even produce a lifter that could bear the strain of a single valve spring and now it's dealing with the strain of two springs? :nixweiss:
I am curious of the weight of two small valves vs. one large valve, and also the spring rate of the two current valve springs vs. the spring rate of the old design single valve spring. But point taken...
-
One of the main benefits of four valve heads is that each valve can be much smaller and lighter and yet in tandem they flow much more than the old bigger single valve. The lower mass allows lighter valve spring pressures. Once the cam specs are available I'd expect to see less lift and less radical ramp speeds as well.
Jerry
-
One of the main benefits of four valve heads is that each valve can be much smaller and lighter and yet in tandem they flow much more than the old bigger single valve. The lower mass allows lighter valve spring pressures. Once the cam specs are available I'd expect to see less lift and less radical ramp speeds as well.
Jerry
And subsequently less forces applied to lifters...
-
Does anyone know if the compensator is the same as 2016?
-
2016 Compensator part numbers:
36500034A COMPENSATOR ASSEMBLY
83936-09A SPRING PACK
2017 Compensator part numbers:
40100076 ENGINE SPROCKET KIT COMPENSATOR ASSEMBLY
40100075 SPRING PACK
Diagrams show them to be similar in appearance, so I have no idea if any changes were actually made, but the part numbers did change.
Jerry
-
Was talkin' to Jody last nite, and he told me he rode the first New 107" to arrive at Tilley's, yesterday. He's impressed. Especially of how quiet it was. And the Crow's-foot Rocker Arms. Ain't rode a 114 yet. Later--HUBBARD
-
Does anyone know if the compensator is the same as 2016?
Again from MoCo:
"For starters, we retuned the primary. The compensator bearings were changed, and the ramps changed. This is another place where we analyzed the crap out of it. We completely correlated our models with many vehicles. The goal was smooth torque in all conditions. Complementing that, the clutch was changed to an Assist and Slip Clutch. As you apply load, it pulls the clutch together to minimize spring pressure. Less lever effort per foot-pound that way. Whenever you up performance, you need more spring in the clutch. We went with a hydraulic Brembo activation system across the board on the Touring models to offset that. It’s better at the lever ergonomically.
Here’s another feature: In a trans-mission, you can get sound at a stop when it’s hot due to freewheeling gears and lash. We addressed that by adding an anti-backlash transmission gear. Now there’s another piece making the bike quiet."
-
2016 Compensator part numbers:
36500034A COMPENSATOR ASSEMBLY
83936-09A SPRING PACK
2017 Compensator part numbers:
40100076 ENGINE SPROCKET KIT COMPENSATOR ASSEMBLY
40100075 SPRING PACK
Diagrams show them to be similar in appearance, so I have no idea if any changes were actually made, but the part numbers did change.
Jerry
Any fitment information included with the new part numbers?
-
Any fitment information included with the new part numbers?
Not yet, as best I can tell. I've been looking for the 2017 Screamin' Eagle catalog online, to check this plus look at cam specs, but so far I haven't found a link on the Harley site or anywhere else.
Jerry
-
The MY 2017 technical data has some interesting info. Anyone got a link to pdf download? There is one place I found it but they have different format, not downloadable and request no hotlinking.
Just Ride
TN
-
Harley-Davidson just took the wraps off of its first all-new motorcycle engine in roughly 15 years. The single-cam Milwaukee-Eight 107 and 114 engines will replace the motorcycle company's twin-cam engine that debuted in 1999. The engine desperately needed to be updated, but the Milwaukee-Eight engine, which is the ninth motor in the company's Big Twin lineage, is a promising alternative.
The benefits of Harley's new Milwaukee-Eight engine reads like an exaggerated résumé: more power, better cooling, reduced vibration, better fuel economy, a better exhaust note, and a slimmer overall design. In other words, the new engine is better in every single way than the previous motor, says H-D. For those wondering, the new Milwaukee-Eight is not backwards compatible with older Harley motorcycles.
The engine comes in two sizes and three different variations – the Milwaukee-Eight 107 (107 cubic inches, or 1,750cc) and Milwaukee-Eight 114 (114 cubic inches, or 1,870cc). The new engines will be used in Harley-Davidson's touring and trike models. The smaller 107-cubic-inch engine will be utilized in the Harley-Davidson Street Glide, Road Glide, Electra Glide, Road King, and Freewheeler models. The larger 114-cubic-inch engine will power the Ultra Limited, Road Glide Ultra, and Tri Glide Ultra models.
The new engine retains the iconic 45-degree V-twin design, but ditches one cam for twice as many valves – each cylinder now has two intake valves and two exhaust valves – which is where the new moniker comes from. Thanks to a higher compression ratio, larger displacement, and the extra set of valves, Harley claims each engine produces 10-percent more torque than the motor it replaces. Despite the power increase, the new engines weigh the same as the old units, giving the motorcycles better acceleration figures and improved fuel economy, as well.
In traditional Harley fashion, the engines are mostly air-cooled, but have liquid-cooled heads, something the company introduced on its touring bikes in 2014. The twin-cooled 107 cubic-inch-engine has liquid-cooled cylinder heads for the Road Glide Ultra, Tri Glide Ultra, and Ultra Limited models. The larger, 114 cubic-inch-engine features liquid-cooled cylinder heads for the CVO Street Glide and CVO Limited models.
Harley-Davidson will launch the new engines that will be featured in the 2017 model year touring motorcycle lineup through a virtual tour of the motorcycle factory on Facebook Live, which will be a first for the company.
-
Just got a chance to look in the 17 parts manual. As new as it all is the new engine is OE with the old 99C lifter.
-
I was talking to the GM at my local dealership. According to him, Harley is getting ready to lay down the law to the dealerships on the 2017 and up models for after market tuning devices. Basically, they are going to void the powertrain warranty if you go that route. Guess it was just a matter of time.
-
well thats been the policy for many years - but they have all been looking the other way... eventually they will just void everything for any powertrain mod - and make folks lawyer up to try and do anything about it.
still - I'm going to keep riding my 07 - can't see any valid reason to get a different bike.
-
Detailed First look at the new Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=186&v=bAsWcrj_Y5c
-
Detailed First look at the new Engine
Video was much better with the audio muted. Images really worthwhile though. Screen cap'd a few (no assumption of privacy when you throw in on Youtube and all citations to the poster and HD).
Oil cooling pathway.
-
Speaketh with forked (and no adjustment) rocker.
-
New crank with the gear for......
-
the counterbalancer.
-
Last one even remotely worth sharing. The .5 quart increase in oil capacity was shown on a slide too. Now if it just all stays inside the engine.
-
Cam lift is small, and no overlap.
-
Cam lift is small, and no overlap.
That happens when you're over a 100... :huepfenlol2:
-
Detailed First look at the new Engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=186&v=bAsWcrj_Y5c
The guy narrating that video is a damn moron. Showing the oil cooled engine saying it's water cooled. Saying the two stock engine sizes are the 110 and 117.... I quit watching after that.
-
Went to the Missouri State HOG rally at Osage Beach this past week and they were demo'ing. New 107 motor is peppy and smooth...will give moco credit for that. Sounds different even with considering the stock mufflers...not sure how to describe it...just different.
Changing the spark plugs will be a b*tch!
Those that don't do their own service can expect dealer wrench time rates to go up just because of that.
-
Went to the Missouri State HOG rally at Osage Beach this past week and they were demo'ing. New 107 motor is peppy and smooth...will give moco credit for that. Sounds different even with considering the stock mufflers...not sure how to describe it...just different.
Changing the spark plugs will be a b*tch!
Those that don't do their own service can expect dealer wrench time rates to go up just because of that.
I believe the tank has to be removed to replace the spark plugs!!
-
I believe the tank has to be removed to replace the spark plugs!!
Sure appears that way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I believe the tank has to be removed to replace the spark plugs!!
Was looking at one a couple days ago also. You can see the wire boot and where the plug would be. See it enough you know you'd have to try it on those right side plugs and say several bad words before giving up. Then it sure looks like it would be time to throw in the towel and admit you need to raise the tank.
-
Was looking at one a couple days ago also. You can see the wire boot and where the plug would be. See it enough you know you'd have to try it on those right side plugs and say several bad words before giving up. Then it sure looks like it would be time to throw in the towel and admit you need to raise the tank.
See HD Owners Tip #59.......
-
With the moco statement that no valve adjustment required for the life of the engine leads me to conclude that there is no lash control for each individual valve - only the control from the hydraulic lifter on a single pushrod that operates two valves. The rocker arms have to control two valves and they better be very precisely made else the valves may not be totally synchronized due to slight differences in spring pressure, stack tolerances, etc. Hopefully the moco has addressed this potential problem and has designed and manufactured it to such tolerances that it will not be a problem. Time will tell.
And how do they account for stem height change due to seat wear.
-
I believe the tank has to be removed to replace the spark plugs!!
Plugs last 20K miles. It takes me 7 minutes to remove the tank. That's it, I'm cancelling my order!
SG
-
Plugs last 20K miles. It takes me 7 minutes to remove the tank. That's it, I'm cancelling my order!
SG
Come on Steve I know you're a better mechanic than that;
Remove the seat
Remove the rear tank bolt
Loosen the front tank bolt
Tilt the tank upward and Place a wedge under it.
Go get the plug.
Total time-- 2.5 minutes.
Now quit screwing around and go finish the new exhaust and maps so we can see what the new motors are really capable of. :D :D :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Regards
Jerry
-
I just took a Limited with the 107 for a ride, and I will say I'm impressed with both the engine and suspension changes. Engine sounds more like a sewing machine now than a baby rattle on the top end. Idle vibration was next to nothing. Plenty of torque, instant throttle response, impressive ride and nimble handling. It was hard to tell if what the exhaust note would sound like with more open mufflers, but I could not tell a whole lot of difference in the stock exhaust note of the twin cams. The transmission hasn't changed any, and still has a clunk into gear and a thud between gears. It's about 91 out, so I still had heat comparable to my "cammed and tuned" 110 on my right leg. The fans came on pretty quick in town. Overall, if the reliability seems to be there I would definitely be interested in a CVO flavored Road Glide in a year or 2. Dealer will have a CVOSG with the 114 to ride Thursday so I will report back then.
-
I just took a Limited with the 107 for a ride, and I will say I'm impressed with both the engine and suspension changes. Engine sounds more like a sewing machine now than a baby rattle on the top end. Idle vibration was next to nothing. Plenty of torque, instant throttle response, impressive ride and nimble handling. It was hard to tell if what the exhaust note would sound like with more open mufflers, but I could not tell a whole lot of difference in the stock exhaust note of the twin cams. The transmission hasn't changed any, and still has a clunk into gear and a thud between gears. It's about 91 out, so I still had heat comparable to my "cammed and tuned" 110 on my right leg. The fans came on pretty quick in town. Overall, if the reliability seems to be there I would definitely be interested in a CVO flavored Road Glide in a year or 2. Dealer will have a CVOSG with the 114 to ride Thursday so I will report back then.
Think that new suspension would be worth putting into our '15s? I still have the stock front ones on mine.
-
I think I'm going to do the Ohlins front end kit. I should've done it in Sturgis, but I didn't.
-
The plugs for the new M8 are the same as the plugs for the 500 and 750 models they came out with a couple years ago. It appears to be a fine wire center electrode plug, not sure if it's iridium, supposedly made by Champion, RG6HCC. Considering the auto folks use plugs that last up to 100k miles, I would assume you could expect at least 50k in a Harley. I guess we will see what they specify for change intervals when someone posts the service checklists for the new bikes. If it's 50k or more, most will never get changed.
Jerry
-
The plugs for the new M8 are the same as the plugs for the 500 and 750 models they came out with a couple years ago. It appears to be a fine wire center electrode plug, not sure if it's iridium, supposedly made by Champion, RG6HCC. Considering the auto folks use plugs that last up to 100k miles, I would assume you could expect at least 50k in a Harley. I guess we will see what they specify for change intervals when someone posts the service checklists for the new bikes. If it's 50k or more, most will never get changed.
Jerry
The Rg6hcc looks to be a standard plug if I'm not mistaken.
-
The plugs for the new M8 are the same as the plugs for the 500 and 750 models they came out with a couple years ago. It appears to be a fine wire center electrode plug, not sure if it's iridium, supposedly made by Champion, RG6HCC. Considering the auto folks use plugs that last up to 100k miles, I would assume you could expect at least 50k in a Harley. I guess we will see what they specify for change intervals when someone posts the service checklists for the new bikes. If it's 50k or more, most will never get changed.
Jerry
Yeah..... butt.
50k for many riders is a much greater period of time than is 50k miles for most cars. My worry is always something seizing when it's been there too long. For the 20 minutes you'll spend R&R'ing the gas tank at each end of the task it's worth it to do a plug change somewhat occasionally just to know you'll not pull the threads out of a cylinder head.
-
The Rg6hcc looks to be a standard plug if I'm not mistaken.
Yup, I believe you are correct. The first picture I came across looked like a fine wire electrode, but further searching found some listings that indicate it's just a standard type plug.
I assume there will be NGK Iridium alternatives at some point, for those who don't want to have to change plugs so often.
Jerry
-
Yeah..... butt.
50k for many riders is a much greater period of time than is 50k miles for most cars. My worry is always something seizing when it's been there too long. For the 20 minutes you'll spend R&R'ing the gas tank at each end of the task it's worth it to do a plug change somewhat occasionally just to know you'll not pull the threads out of a cylinder head.
You must be talking about those Ford 5.4 and 4.6 engines. Plugs are good for 100k but have fun trying to get them out after about 60k miles.
Plugs will be a winter maintenance item for me. I pull the tank every winter to clean under it anyway.
-
Aren't the 5.4s the ones that liked to jettison the plugs? Hope they have enough threads of engagement on the M-8 with 6 gallons of gasoline overhead.
-
Aren't the 5.4s the ones that liked to jettison the plugs? Hope they have enough threads of engagement on the M-8 with 6 gallons of gasoline overhead.
They either toss them or you pull the plug apart trying to get it out of the head. If they toss them, most of the time part of the head goes with it.
-
Yeah..... butt.
50k for many riders is a much greater period of time than is 50k miles for most cars. My worry is always something seizing when it's been there too long. For the 20 minutes you'll spend R&R'ing the gas tank at each end of the task it's worth it to do a plug change somewhat occasionally just to know you'll not pull the threads out of a cylinder head.
Yup. If it were me (but it won't be), I think I'd pull those stock plugs after the first year and install some good NGK Iridiums, and I'd use high temp antiseize compound on them like I do with all my plugs. I've never had an issue yet with stuck plugs or pulling threads on anything I've owned doing it that way. Never owned a 5.4 though. I think that was designed back when Ford hired some out-of-work Harley engineers. ;)
Jerry
-
I was at a dealer on Tuesday evening and mentioned this and I received a blank stare of disbelief in return.
Free 117 kits are NOT offered at my dealership either...oh how the rumor mill keeps a churning. Then again.. CVOs dont sit for long at my local HD shop.
-
Free 117 kits are NOT offered at my dealership either...oh how the rumor mill keeps a churning. Then again.. CVOs dont sit for long at my local HD shop.
Plenty of ads out there in print offering it. Just because your dealer didn't offer it, doesn't make it a rumor.
-
Plenty of ads out there in print offering it. Just because your dealer didn't offer it, doesn't make it a rumor.
If you or anyone else sees an ad for a free 117 upgrade kit, it would be very helpful to post. My local dealer was offering free 110 upgrade kits for '16 bikes but nothing in our area on he new M8s.
-
If you or anyone else sees an ad for a free 117 upgrade kit, it would be very helpful to post. My local dealer was offering free 110 upgrade kits for '16 bikes but nothing in our area on he new M8s.
The ones I was referring too was on leftover '16 CVOs. They'd toss in the 117 upgrade if you paid MSRP.
-
Plenty of ads out there in print offering it. Just because your dealer didn't offer it, doesn't make it a rumor.
then post said ad....I'll wait
-
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=107264.msg1378427#msg1378427
-
and he posts a link to this lame crap. Ad is from April... hahahaha....Its September. Anyways.....
-
then post said ad....I'll wait
and he posts a link to this lame crap. Ad is from April... hahahaha....Its September. Anyways.....
Your Google finger broke or did you do brain damage with it by sticking it too far up your ass? Another keyboard commando that jumps in a forum with very few post expecting people to think he's God's gift to the internet. I never stated when those ads were published did I? Go crawl back under your rock with your noisy engine that you keep taking back to the dealer because you got in too deep on a bike you can't afford.
Any future responses from you will be ignored so say what you want.
-
Your Google finger broke or did you do brain damage with it by sticking it too far up your ass? Another keyboard commando that jumps in a forum with very few post expecting people to think he's God's gift to the internet. I never stated when those ads were published did I? Go crawl back under your rock with your noisy engine that you keep taking back to the dealer because you got in too deep on a bike you can't afford.
Any future responses from you will be ignored so say what you want.
Take a deep breath or three please. Picture yer happy place. :D
-
and he posts a link to this lame crap. Ad is from April... hahahaha....Its September. Anyways.....
Apparently you are too lazy to scroll down through the entire thread. If you had, you'd see replies from AUGUST stating the offer is still ongoing. Here, let me make it easy for you:
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=107264.msg1397745#msg1397745
-
Take a deep breath or three please. Picture yer happy place. :D
I agree TN....
-
I guess we will see what they specify for change intervals when someone posts the service checklists for the new bikes. If it's 50k or more, most will never get changed.
plugs are spec'd at 2 years/30,000 miles
-
page 2
-
page 3
-
page 4
-
page 5
-
and last page
-
plugs are spec'd at 2 years/30,000 miles
That makes sense... they'll have the tank off to repair a catastrophic motor failure around that mileage so they can replace them then. :smartass: :wiseguy: :evilgrin:
Sorry I just couldn't resist. :devil: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
I predict 2020 will be a good year for this new engine.
-
plugs are spec'd at 2 years/30,000 miles
Typical H-D, put a time (2 years) requirement on something that doesn't go bad just sitting. Plugs become worn from use, not from sitting in an engine that isn't running.
Jerry
-
Typical H-D, put a time (2 years) requirement on something that doesn't go bad just sitting. Plugs become worn from use, not from sitting in an engine that isn't running.
Jerry
After the fresh factory installed electricity leaks out of them, they get stale.
Or not.
But the excuse sounds good enough & some bike owners believe damn near anything, so no bets on a service department not trying to use it....
Initial reports on this 8 engine, including my own test ride, look promising.
-
The ones I was referring too was on leftover '16 CVOs. They'd toss in the 117 upgrade if you paid MSRP.
Easy for them to give up a 2k kit to still make 5k profit at MSRP :huepfenjump3:
-
Harley dealers are offering a "free 117 kit" with the purchase of a "new" 2016 CVO
If Harley is going to offer the 117 kit on 16 cvo's for free what are they going to use for a tuner? I am led to believe the dealers can no longer sell the super tuners and when I purchased my pro street they told me the super tuner was the only one that would work for the 117. Unless they offer a dealer download for it now.
-
If Harley is going to offer the 117 kit on 16 cvo's for free what are they going to use for a tuner? I am led to believe the dealers can no longer sell the super tuners and when I purchased my pro street they told me the super tuner was the only one that would work for the 117. Unless they offer a dealer download for it now.
The kit requires a street legal and emission compliant calibration for any of the listed bikes, including a 2016 Pro Street Breakout. Harley provides that calibration either as a dealer download or as one of the calibrations that can be installed with the new Street Tuner. They don't need the racing only SEPST to load that calibration file.
In typical fashion Harley has labeled the street legal tuning system the Screamin' Eagle Pro Street Tuner (SEPST again), so people will be confused and possibly believe they are still getting the racing product (Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner). They aren't. The Street Tuner is used to load the street legal emission compliant calibrations Harley provides to match their various street legal kits. It cannot alter settings in the areas that affect emission law compliance (closed loop operation), but does allow some adjustability in the open loop operating range.
Jerry
-
Harley dealers are offering a "free 117 kit" with the purchase of a "new" 2016 CVO
Just some dealer did that , not all dealer in US right ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Just some dealer did that , not all dealer in US right ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are correct.
-
From Popular Mechanics: Harley-Davidson Unveils Its First New Engine in 15 Years (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a22601/harley-davidson-new-engine-milwaukee-eight/)
-
When the article made a comment about changing from gear drive to cam chain I was done lol. Talk about old news!
-
When the article made a comment about changing from gear drive to cam chain I was done lol. Talk about old news!
;D Now it really would be news if they were to go back to gear drive for the new single cam engine. They never will of course, because it requires much tighter tolerances than what Harley has been doing for the past decade. If done right, gear drives are much more accurate than chain and can be every bit as quiet. If done wrong, with too much runout on the crank, they can be very loud and irritating. Belt drive is of course another option (see S&S X-Wedge engine for an example).
Jerry
-
;D Now it really would be news if they were to go back to gear drive for the new single cam engine. They never will of course, because it requires much tighter tolerances than what Harley has been doing for the past decade. If done right, gear drives are much more accurate than chain and can be every bit as quiet. If done wrong, with too much runout on the crank, they can be very loud and irritating. Belt drive is of course another option (see S&S X-Wedge engine for an example).
Jerry
Gear drive in the new option would require reverse grinding the cam wouldn't it?
-
Gear drive in the new option would require reverse grinding the cam wouldn't it?
Yes or a jack gear (3rd floater)
-
;D Now it really would be news if they were to go back to gear drive for the new single cam engine.
Jerry
Dang, that would make it almost as good as a EVO wouldn't it. :P
-
i just don't believe that anything they offer is "FREE".there's some disclaimer somewhere
-
FYI,
Steve Cole just posted the testing results on the M8 107 & 114 in the TTS section. Numbers look pretty impressive.
YB
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
-
What motor did he have?
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
Aaarghhh... >:(
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
Sounds like the oil pump is now an issue on the M8s or at least some M8s. This is more than 1 bike with an oil light on that resulted in a broken engine very early on.
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
Care to tell us what dealer? I'd like to avoid that one if I'm ever in the area...
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
Heh, it was running tight... until it ain't running no mo (seized)... guess "they all do that". :wall: :zstupid:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
Let's hope he did not make any modifications to the bike. I am sure MoCo would hop all over that and deny the claim.
:oops: :nixweiss:
-
Someone in our Hog Owners Group just had his new CVO seize at 350 miles. He complained that his oil light stayed on all the time, but the dealer blew him off saying "the engine is just running tight". :'(
I have to assume this person is just as clueless as the dealership, if he actually accepted that ignorant response. I can't wrap my head around the idea of ANYONE of driving age not knowing you don't keep driving or riding with the oil light on.
What was the problem, no oil in the pan or the oil pump quit working? If it was no oil in the pan, I'll be interested in seeing who winds up having to take responsibility for the repairs.
Jerry
-
It ain't called an idiot light for nothing. :drink:
Ride On
TN
-
I have to assume this person is just as clueless as the dealership, if he actually accepted that ignorant response. I can't wrap my head around the idea of ANYONE of driving age not knowing you don't keep driving or riding with the oil light on.
What was the problem, no oil in the pan or the oil pump quit working? If it was no oil in the pan, I'll be interested in seeing who winds up having to take responsibility for the repairs.
Jerry
Jerry
You'd think in this day and age that the engine would stop running and refuse to start and a sensor would throw a code to protect the engine if no oil is flowing or present in the pan.
Jerry (also)
-
Jerry
You'd think in this day and age that the engine would stop running and refuse to start and a sensor would throw a code to protect the engine if no oil is flowing or present in the pan.
Jerry (also)
Those things are possible, but I'd hate to be the guy responsible for adding a feature to a vehicle that shuts it down on purpose while it's running. Those liability lawyers would be salivating. IMHO we have too much nanny stuff already, and will probably be forced to accept more, thanks to the vast number of people these days who don't read the manuals, don't know the basics about their vehicles, and don't pay much attention to anything but their phone.
Some cars have had low oil level sensors, but they didn't shut anything down they just flashed another warning to the driver. If a driver ignores a low pressure idiot light, what makes anyone think they would pay attention to a low oil level light? Many cars these days have an oil life indicator as well, to tell you it's time to change the oil. I've seen people ignore those too. I know, how about if we have the systems immediately shut down the infotainment and sound systems along with any mobile device reception? Now that would get a lot of peoples attention.
Jerry ;)
-
You almost have to believe the oil pump issue on the M8's is a vendor issue. Because if it's a design flaw.... :nervous: :nervous:
As a former beta tester of a 2007 110 Twin Cam, you all have my condolences... :(
-
You almost have to believe the oil pump issue on the M8's is a vendor issue. Because if it's a design flaw.... :nervous: :nervous:
As a former beta tester of a 2007 110 Twin Cam, you all have my condolences... :(
Something that would (should) have been found it in the "million miles" of testing... just sayin'. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Something that would (should) have been found it in the "million miles" of testing... just sayin'. :nixweiss:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
:nixweiss: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
-
:nixweiss: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Oh wait... my bad... It was a "Million Bikes Doing One Mile" :oops: :devil: :smartass: :wiseguy: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Sadly, I'd imagine most of the testing miles were with pre-production parts/assembly. Gets approved and production starts, when they discover "can't get there from here" on the line, so changes get made to accommodate production. One million miles down the drain and the odometer resets to zero, but "we've already committed, so just go with it."
-
Looks like quite a few of us on here getting the new motors so Im sure we will be posting up "issues" soon enough..
-
I have to assume this person is just as clueless as the dealership, if he actually accepted that ignorant response. I can't wrap my head around the idea of ANYONE of driving age not knowing you don't keep driving or riding with the oil light on.
What was the problem, no oil in the pan or the oil pump quit working? If it was no oil in the pan, I'll be interested in seeing who winds up having to take responsibility for the repairs.
Jerry
if the dealer would of told me the oil light on was normal id of done the same thing now they know its broke..so they can put a new motor in it not fix old one that's been running around with no oil pressure id also ask for a 117 upgrade for my trouble too..not sure id go to the same dealer tho..
seriously sorry for those who are having problems I'm hoping all will be sorted out soon
-
Rode a 17 Road Glide special at the York open house. First time in a RG....very nice ride, plenty of power and felt smooth and solid.
For me I was impressed with the smooth hum that now comes from the primary side....expressly while deceleration (engine braking).
One odd thing I noticed is that while riding, I pressed the "Information" switch that displays the ambient temperature and oil pressure...... temp said 87 but the oil pressure just said "OK" instead of the actual oil pressure???
-
One odd thing I noticed is that while riding, I pressed the "Infromation" switch that displays the ambient temperature and oil pressure...... temp said 87 but the oil pressure just said "OK" instead do the actual oil pressure???
Yeah apparently they took that away because the number fluctuated too much and scared people, or it will be a SE upgrade to get that number. heh.
-
i was told that HDs reliability numbers are going to improve with the M8, and over the the last 10 years 90% of the 110ci motors made are still on the rode....the other 10% made it home :nixweiss:
-
That's a good one.....
-
i was told that HDs reliability numbers are going to improve with the M8, and over the the last 10 years 90% of the 110ci motors made are still on the rode....the other 10% made it home :nixweiss:
:) :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
-
Rode a 17 Road Glide special at the York open house. First time in a RG....very nice ride, plenty of power and felt smooth and solid.
For me I was impressed with the smooth hum that now comes from the primary side....expressly while deceleration (engine braking).
One odd thing I noticed is that while riding, I pressed the "Infromation" switch that displays the ambient temperature and oil pressure...... temp said 87 but the oil pressure just said "OK" instead do the actual oil pressure???
I couldn't believe that when I hit the info button! Steve Cole actually checked the sender, its just an idiot light.
The new motor does not have an oil pressure sender!
SG
-
i was told that HDs reliability numbers are going to improve with the M8, and over the the last 10 years 90% of the 110ci motors made are still on the rode....the other 10% made it home :nixweiss:
Now thats funny..
-
I couldn't believe that when I hit the info button! Steve Cole actually checked the sender, its just an idiot light.
The new motor does not have an oil pressure sender!
SG
That's how you cheapen the product while eliminating all the complaints about hot oil pressure being too low. Considering they have now dropped the idle speed a couple hundred rpm if I heard right, I wonder if there is any oil pressure at idle for them to measure anyway. I guess someone needs to screw in a fitting for a real oil pressure gauge and see what's what.
Jerry
-
Not a new concept. Actual numbers on gauges and even gauges started dissappearing from cars ages ago. Gauges with just hash marks or just oil lights instead of gauges. You can still get them in some but they're gone in most cars. My MINI virtually no actual useful temps or pressures in the Info Center.
I have found that you can get a really inexpensive OBDII plug in widget the will let you see ALL the data displayed on your phone.
-
I have found that you can get a really inexpensive OBDII plug in widget the will let you see ALL the data displayed on your phone.
While that might work in the event the information is actually available on the bus, in this case, I understand, if you want to see some pressure values it now involves a separate purchase from P & A.
-
Yeah, I was just speaking to the car specifically, cars with OBDII systems (sort of universal, gov't mandated standard). I'm under the impression that MC systems are not forced to use the standard. The scanner widget for cars is a workaround to see the data. On my Ultra I use a PV for this.
-
trucks flat shut down with low oil pressure - they start screaming bloody murder -then cut power then shut down - you get about 3/4 mile max - and its off.
to
-
I had a minor incident in my Rubicon that pushed the oil pan in against the pick up reducing oil pressure.
Went straight into limp mode.
SG
-
I had a minor incident in my Rubicon that pushed the oil pan in against the pick up reducing oil pressure.
Went straight into limp mode.
SG
I notice you're a little tough on equipment. :oops: In LA the people behind you would be honking their horns and flipping you off.
Hope everyone is OK. Jimmy
-
I'm seriously impressed by the roof performance on that Jeep. The roll cage must be built right.
-
One odd thing I noticed is that while riding, I pressed the "Information" switch that displays the ambient temperature and oil pressure...... temp said 87 but the oil pressure just said "OK" instead of the actual oil pressure???
Yea, I really dislike that change. I really liked seeing the oil pressure. OK is useless, no information.
-
Yea, I really dislike that change. I really liked seeing the oil pressure. OK is useless, no information.
I'm with you guys. How hard is it to post a pressure reading? If they are cutting costs, they still have to have the sensors in place to keep an eye on the pressure, right? What did "OK" save them? They would have been better off with:
Oil Pressure: Yep
Or...
Oil Pressure: Who needs to know?
-
I'm with you guys. How hard is it to post a pressure reading? If they are cutting costs, they still have to have the sensors in place to keep an eye on the pressure, right? What did "OK" save them? They would have been better off with:
Oil Pressure: Yep
Or...
Oil Pressure: Who needs to know?
OR,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "WE DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW"
-
I asked my Dealer it stops the the people from seeing real pressure and causing unnecessary shoppings. It's only has idiot sensor so pressure has to be below set limit to not be ok. Like the Roadkings and others have been for decades.
:bananarock: :banana rock:
Brad
-
Don't need no steenkin' oil pressure readings. Trust us, have we ever steered you wrong?
Jerry :nervous:
-
Jerry that's funny....
-
A service writer told me a conflict he had with a customer: The complaint was that the customer's new car showed 28 PSI of oil pressure at idle and 55 PSI at 70 mph... The guy's neighbor happened to have a near identical car that was a year old. The neighbor's car had 35 PSI at idle and 61 PSI at 70. The customer was PISSED that his new car "showed to be worn out already". The Service writer told me "And that, my friends is why they don't put numbers on 'em, anymore.
-
When I was service manager at a Chevy Pontiac dealership back in the mid '70s to the mid '80s, lots of cars had idiot lights.
The oil pressure light was usually set at around 6 to 7 psi. It was assumed that 10 psi would be a safe idle oil pressure.
Anywhere above 30 psi while driving was also considered good.
This reminds me when I was a lot younger and my parents and I had a marina in mid MI area. Starting in the late '60s we sold snowmobiles. Most of them had no speedometer. It was funny to listen to the bragging that went on in bars. One guy would say that his buddy clocked him with his car while he was running down on the snow at 70 mph. And the bragging just continued.
Then speedometers became available as add-ons. It's funny because the guy that could do 70 could only get 45 mph out of his sled. This brought MANY complaints because all of a sudden their sleds were not running like they did before the speedometer was installed.
Another screwing with the neighbors, I think it was in Parenthood with Steve Martin, he had a neighbor that bragged about how good of gas mileage he got with his new car. So he and his boy went over at night and added of gas to his tank without him knowing it. They did this for a week or so as I remember. The neighbor just raved about his GREAT mileage. Then the next week they sucked out gas at night and the neighbor was at the dealership complaining about losing all the mpg that he had been getting. That's one way to screw with your neighbor...
-
When I was service manager at a Chevy Pontiac dealership back in the mid '70s to the mid '80s, lots of cars had idiot lights.
The oil pressure light was usually set at around 6 to 7 psi. It was assumed that 10 psi would be a safe idle oil pressure.
Anywhere above 30 psi while driving was also considered good.
This reminds me when I was a lot younger and my parents and I had a marina in mid MI area. Starting in the late '60s we sold snowmobiles. Most of them had no speedometer. It was funny to listen to the bragging that went on in bars. One guy would say that his buddy clocked him with his car while he was running down on the snow at 70 mph. And the bragging just continued.
Then speedometers became available as add-ons. It's funny because the guy that could do 70 could only get 45 mph out of his sled. This brought MANY complaints because all of a sudden their sleds were not running like they did before the speedometer was installed.
Another screwing with the neighbors, I think it was in Parenthood with Steve Martin, he had a neighbor that bragged about how good of gas mileage he got with his new car. So he and his boy went over at night and added of gas to his tank without him knowing it. They did this for a week or so as I remember. The neighbor just raved about his GREAT mileage. Then the next week they sucked out gas at night and the neighbor was at the dealership complaining about losing all the mpg that he had been getting. That's one way to screw with your neighbor...
Spinal Tap had amps that went to "11".
(http://ryangruss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/spinaltap_amp_11.jpg)
-
A service writer told me a conflict he had with a customer: The complaint was that the customer's new car showed 28 PSI of oil pressure at idle and 55 PSI at 70 mph... The guy's neighbor happened to have a near identical car that was a year old. The neighbor's car had 35 PSI at idle and 61 PSI at 70. The customer was PISSED that his new car "showed to be worn out already". The Service writer told me "And that, my friends is why they don't put numbers on 'em, anymore.
Can still remember when I was a kid working in a gas station and had a shop later just hating to hear when some of the customers would want a set of Stewart Warner or some other gauges mounted. For way too many the numbers were just something to worry about that they weren't even close to understanding. Still remember like it was yesterday the guy who (seriously) asked me why his "oil psi's accelerated faster than his volts." :huepfenlol2:
-
yeah, I got one that's even better. when I was going to school for auto mechs, we would take in 'customer' vehicles to do work on them. one woman brought her car in and wanted a front end alignment (okay, no issue) and her valve stems in her tires lined up so they would be in the same position all the way around.
-
Can still remember when I was a kid working in a gas station and had a shop later just hating to hear when some of the customers would want a set of Stewart Warner or some other gauges mounted. For way too many the numbers were just something to worry about that they weren't even close to understanding. Still remember like it was yesterday the guy who (seriously) asked me why his "oil psi's accelerated faster than his volts." :huepfenlol2:
You're going to throw that out there and then not tell us why??? WTH?? :nixweiss:
-
yeah, I got one that's even better. when I was going to school for auto mechs, we would take in 'customer' vehicles to do work on them. one woman brought her car in and wanted a front end alignment (okay, no issue) and her valve stems in her tires lined up so they would be in the same position all the way around.
Ok. I had one who just demanded having the beads broken so he could from summer to winter air in the tires. Not kidding....
-
Sometimes if a car needed power steering fluid we would tell the driver the car was low on blinker fluid and charge them a dollar. Full service station. Re-run oil was $.33 a quart, sold a lot of it.
-
Well not only did they remove the oil pressure so we could not complain about the low oil pressure.
They also have the M-8 governed to 110 mph. I guess that is so we can't complain about high speed wobbles.
-
Well not only did they remove the oil pressure so we could not complain about the low oil pressure.
They also have the M-8 governed to 110 mph. I guess that is so we can't complain about high speed wobbles.
Nostalgia, Dave. That's to always remind you of the SE 110 Twin Cam this one replaced..... ;D :huepfenlol2: :2vrolijk_21:
-
Well not only did they remove the oil pressure so we could not complain about the low oil pressure.
They also have the M-8 governed to 110 mph. I guess that is so we can't complain about high speed wobbles.
WTF!
-
Have to buy the LE model, then.
-
I remember seeing the speed limiter in action on one of the dyno charts posted by Steve Cole. He did one run in fourth that ran out to the rev limiter, and one run in fifth that was cut off by the speed limiter if I remember correctly. Contact Steve to see if they've got a way with the TTS to circumvent the speed limiter.
People might be surprised to learn that this is a common thing in the automotive world these days, most likely to help reduce the number of lawsuits they get when people kill themselves running their new car beyond the safe limits for their own capabilities and conditions.
Unless people do some serious performance work on their bikes, I'm guessing a 110 mph limiter isn't really cutting much off the top end anyway.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=109309.msg1399734#msg1399734
Jerry
-
I remember seeing the speed limiter in action on one of the dyno charts posted by Steve Cole. He did one run in fourth that ran out to the rev limiter, and one run in fifth that was cut off by the speed limiter if I remember correctly. Contact Steve to see if they've got a way with the TTS to circumvent the speed limiter.
People might be surprised to learn that this is a common thing in the automotive world these days, most likely to help reduce the number of lawsuits they get when people kill themselves running their new car beyond the safe limits for their own capabilities and conditions.
Unless people do some serious performance work on their bikes, I'm guessing a 110 mph limiter isn't really cutting much off the top end anyway.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=109309.msg1399734#msg1399734
Jerry
Speed limiters on cars are generally attached to the tire rating. My Suburban cuts out at 96 MPH but there is plenty of throttle left. I checked the speed rating of the tires and it matched exactly! Not sure if this applies to motorcycles or not though so I could be all wet with my thinking.
-
Not sure if many use the full potential of a bike capable of 110 MPH. My T-man 120 would easily do 130+ but seldom went above 85. On todays roads and traffic it serves nothing but bench race bragging rights to talk about top speeds over 100MPH in MY OPINION. In my home state if you are clocked going 100 MPH or over on a public road it results in an automatic 6 month suspension of your license...no passing goal, no collecting $200...just an automatic suspension. Not worth it for this kid. I do understand the resentment of having someone else decide what your bike can or cannot do, but face it that happens in all aspects of life. Others I am sure have other opinions on this topic and I respect that.
-
This has been on several other manufacturers bikes for a couple of decades. At least on other bikes it's been accomplished by having a separate ECM map for the top gear, retarding the timing at a set speed for that gear. Other bikes aren't as lucky as to have units to reprogram the ECM, so general a TRE (timing retard eliminator) is installed. It just tricks the gear position sensor into thinking it's in a non restricted gear. Mostly irrelevant here but I've been using them for years on other bikes.
-
This has been on several other manufacturers bikes for a couple of decades. At least on other bikes it's been accomplished by having a separate ECM map for the top gear, retarding the timing at a set speed for that gear. Other bikes aren't as lucky as to have units to reprogram the ECM, so general a TRE (timing retard eliminator) is installed. It just tricks the gear position sensor into thinking it's in a non restricted gear. Mostly irrelevant here but I've been using them for years on other bikes.
True. My ex-GTL1600 would do 140 with three bags attached but it was a linear acceleration up to at least 130...I know this for a fact. I personally don't care for top speed for a length of time or distance, but I do want to be able to get up to that neighborhood without feeling like a parachute has ejected....at say 100.
-
True. My ex-GTL1600 would do 140 with three bags attached but it was a linear acceleration up to at least 130...I know this for a fact. I personally don't care for top speed for a length of time or distance, but I do want to be able to get up to that neighborhood without feeling like a parachute has ejected....at say 100.
My same experience with the K1600. I got mine up to 142 and it was like surfing. Had to back it off simply for safety's sake. But getting to 120 or 130 was easy pleasey. That last 12 or so was a gradual acceleration. What an experience.
DH
-
I remember seeing the speed limiter in action on one of the dyno charts posted by Steve Cole. He did one run in fourth that ran out to the rev limiter, and one run in fifth that was cut off by the speed limiter if I remember correctly. Contact Steve to see if they've got a way with the TTS to circumvent the speed limiter.
People might be surprised to learn that this is a common thing in the automotive world these days, most likely to help reduce the number of lawsuits they get when people kill themselves running their new car beyond the safe limits for their own capabilities and conditions.
Unless people do some serious performance work on their bikes, I'm guessing a 110 mph limiter isn't really cutting much off the top end anyway.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=109309.msg1399734#msg1399734
Jerry
Already posted a question to Steve about in in the TTS section.
In the automotive world the limiter is usually based on the car tire speed rating. My 14 Stingray has no speed limiter other than the motor power. Lots of new Stingray owners want GM to offer all season tires, but they will not as it would require a speed limiter.
Not sure how much it cuts off. This 114 is much stronger than any other stock big twin I have had, infant it is stronger than my last 110 with fullsac head pipe, mufflers and TTS and a good tune. I know it has to be cutting off more than ten mph, my guess is closer to 15 or more mph.
-
Not sure if many use the full potential of a bike capable of 110 MPH. My T-man 120 would easily do 130+ but seldom went above 85. On todays roads and traffic it serves nothing but bench race bragging rights to talk about top speeds over 100MPH in MY OPINION. In my home state if you are clocked going 100 MPH or over on a public road it results in an automatic 6 month suspension of your license...no passing goal, no collecting $200...just an automatic suspension. Not worth it for this kid. I do understand the resentment of having someone else decide what your bike can or cannot do, but face it that happens in all aspects of life. Others I am sure have other opinions on this topic and I respect that.
Ever ride out west? Speed limit of 85 mph. Ride 50 miles with out seeing another car.
Yea, my home state 100 I'm sure my license would be gone.
My 17 is not a week old, found out it has a governor.
My 13 CVO King has 138 HP and 140 torque. Its only been over 100 mph a couple times, but gets there real quick.
I just do not like it being governed. Doubt I will run it over a hundred more than a couple times in the few years I own it.
-
Been west many times...just got back actually from a 7 day trip through Wyoming. The GSA I was on this trip purred all day long on the slab at posted speeds. I hear you about being told what you can and can't do. Still, the fact remains 99% of those who buy HD bikes never use them to their full potential even when in stock form. Good thing we as owners can do what ever we decide (and can afford ) to do once the papers are signed. Ride safe.
-
Been west many times...just got back actually from a 7 day trip through Wyoming. The GSA I was on this trip purred all day long on the slab at posted speeds. I hear you about being told what you can and can't do. Still, the fact remains 99% of those who buy HD bikes never use them to their full potential even when in stock form. Good thing we as owners can do what ever we decide (and can afford ) to do once the papers are signed. Ride safe.
I sure have to agree with that. Most will not even break the speed limit, and most slow way down for curves. Really enjoy the people in my local HOG chapter and I am a charter member, out of 200 people there are about 5 I will ride with.
Wyoming is one of my favorite states to ride. Ride safe
-
I sure have to agree with that. Most will not even break the speed limit, and most slow way down for curves. Really enjoy the people in my local HOG chapter and I am a charter member, out of 200 people there are about 5 I will ride with.
Wyoming is one of my favorite states to ride. Ride safe
Right on the money.
-
Man I hate people who ride safely. don't exceed the speed limit while riding in groups, and choose not to end up a greasy spot on the highway...
-
Keep in mind we want riders to be safe and ride how they feel safe especially in a group where they may feel pressure to push their limits.
I hate to hear about limiters. I always take my bike up over 100 and push it at least once just to do it. I usually ride above the speed limit on the interstate but keep with the traffic. I agree with many people here that we don't use all of what we bought and I know that is true of most cars owners too (corvettes, etc.). But if we want to we should be able to. I don't usually blast off from a stop light but when I do I want my bike to perform if I want to push her to over 130 then that is my choice.
I hope there is a way to remove the limiter just so there are no limits even if I never hit it.
-
i rode a 17 cvo limited a few weeks back and did note when going thru the gears about 4k rpms in forth the thing just went flat...will say it did pull good till that happened. didnt know of this governor dealio thing at the time but makes sense now. im sure the after market can get it resolved for us speed freaks
-
Man I hate people who ride safely. don't exceed the speed limit while riding in groups, and choose not to end up a greasy spot on the highway...
Im not advocating not riding safely. 15 mph under the flow of traffic is not safe, but a Hazard. Gaps in your riding group you can put an 18 wheeler in is not safe. Staying 5 to 10 under the speed limit in a group is not safe, it pisses traffic off and cars try to get by you. Slowing way down for a curve is a hazard. I'm talking the people who see a 35 mph curve and slow to 20, they are afraid to lean their bikes. Around here 35mph curve is very safe at 45, good riders at 55.
The safest way to ride in a group is with the flow of traffic. The safest way is to not have cars backed up behind you because your speed is so slow.
I feel with the lack of skill most HOG chapter riders have it is safest to not ride with them. The MC I am in we ride side by side, and I feel much safer as these folks can ride their motorcycles.
-
Im not advocating not riding safely. 15 mph under the flow of traffic is not safe, but a Hazard. Gaps in your riding group you can put an 18 wheeler in is not safe. Staying 5 to 10 under the speed limit in a group is not safe, it pisses traffic off and cars try to get by you. Slowing way down for a curve is a hazard. I'm talking the people who see a 35 mph curve and slow to 20, they are afraid to lean their bikes. Around here 35mph curve is very safe at 45, good riders at 55.
The safest way to ride in a group is with the flow of traffic. The safest way is to not have cars backed up behind you because your speed is so slow.
I feel with the lack of skill most HOG chapter riders have it is safest to not ride with them. The MC I am in we ride side by side, and I feel much safer as these folks can ride their motorcycles.
Spot on.
-
I'm with you on all you stated Dave, I understand some have skills to learn and I'm not a teacher.... So see ya later
-
Well said Dave.
-
i rode a 17 cvo limited a few weeks back and did note when going thru the gears about 4k rpms in forth the thing just went flat...will say it did pull good till that happened. didnt know of this governor dealio thing at the time but makes sense now. im sure the after market can get it resolved for us speed freaks
Pretty sure that Techno-Research will have a solution by the end of this month...
-
Im not advocating not riding safely. 15 mph under the flow of traffic is not safe, but a Hazard. Gaps in your riding group you can put an 18 wheeler in is not safe. Staying 5 to 10 under the speed limit in a group is not safe, it pisses traffic off and cars try to get by you. Slowing way down for a curve is a hazard. I'm talking the people who see a 35 mph curve and slow to 20, they are afraid to lean their bikes. Around here 35mph curve is very safe at 45, good riders at 55.
The safest way to ride in a group is with the flow of traffic. The safest way is to not have cars backed up behind you because your speed is so slow.
I feel with the lack of skill most HOG chapter riders have it is safest to not ride with them. The MC I am in we ride side by side, and I feel much safer as these folks can ride their motorcycles.
Dave, you are a poet... Couldn't agree more
-
:jack:
-
i rode a 17 cvo limited a few weeks back and did note when going thru the gears about 4k rpms in forth the thing just went flat...will say it did pull good till that happened. didnt know of this governor dealio thing at the time but makes sense now. im sure the after market can get it resolved for us speed freaks
I sure have not noticed that with my 17 SESG. She pulls right up to 5K or more. Only time it quits pulling is when you hit the speed limiter.
-
Dave, you are a poet... Couldn't agree more
And this is why I don't ride with organized groups any longer. Some of these riders shouldn't even be on a motorcycle, are dangerous to be around, and I'm always worried about one of them falling into me or hitting me from behind.
-
Agree with most of what is said about riding in groups. I don't mind small groups of people like 1 or 2 other bikes that I know. I don't like the larger groups that really go from food (or drink) place to the next. The last ride I was on someone did go off the road and it wasn't a difficult turn just too many bikes making them nervous. One thing to call out is riding side by side is very cool but consider maybe not the safest. If someone has to avoid something or whatever there is no room to move. I do ride side by side occasionally especially when just having fun or trying to communicate but usually it is more staggered. Just a thought.
-
I don't view it as "being cool" to ride side by side or a very close stagger. Riding side by side is generally used to keep the group tighter together in an urban setting to get more bikes through stop lights to avoid the riding group getting split. Being on the side of a road with blinkers on waiting for the rest of the group is far more dangerous than riding side-by-side to avoid the group being split in the first place.
-
In some states it is illegal to ride side by side in the same lane.
Jerry
btw, what does this have to do with the Milwaukee 8?
-
I don't want to get us too far off-topic but its worth confirming what's legal and what's not since the topic was raised here. I'm not aware of any state where its illegal for 2 motorcycles to ride side-by-side within a single lane. Of course its ill-advised, if the conditions do not support close riding. But in almost every situation, bikes are expected to stop side-by-side at a light and when traveling in "some" slow, high traffic areas it can be safer to ride side-by-side than stretching a group ride further than can be reasonably expected to make it through the next light. I would be interested in learning if there is any State where side-by-side riding is illegal.
-
I don't want to get us too far off-topic but its worth confirming what's legal and what's not since the topic was raised here. I'm not aware of any state where its illegal for 2 motorcycles to ride side-by-side within a single lane. Of course its ill-advised, if the conditions do not support close riding. But in almost every situation, bikes are expected to stop side-by-side at a light and when traveling in "some" slow, high traffic areas it can be safer to ride side-by-side than stretching a group ride further than can be reasonably expected to make it through the next light. I would be interested in learning if there is any State where side-by-side riding is illegal.
Up until recently (within the last few years) it was illegal to ride side by side in VA. So I wouldn't assume w/o verifying if I were traveling outside of my home state (where I should know the laws) that it was legal/illegal.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
Since this thread is already jacked I will add my own two cents. New Jersey is one state where it is illegal to ride side by side. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it is wrong,
but it is the law fwiw.
-
Virginia was the state I was thinking of when I made my post. I lived there from '73 thru '92. And in my humble opinion it was a good law as long as some cop didn't try to bust people for sitting at a light side by side. I'm surprised they repealed it.
Jerry
-
Since this thread is already jacked I will add my own two cents. New Jersey is one state where it is illegal to ride side by side. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it is wrong, but it is the law fwiw.
The HOG book says it is legal in NJ so if that isn't true, what is that law so they can correct the book. Actually, the only state where they specifically say NO to 'Riding two abreast in the same lane' is Vermont.
Me & my buddy ride like this all the time and we've never been pulled over. Heck one trip was all through Canada and through VT out to Laconia.
-
The HOG book says it is legal in NJ so if that isn't true, what is that law so they can correct the book. Actually, the only state where they specifically say NO to 'Riding two abreast in the same lane' is Vermont.
Me & my buddy ride like this all the time and we've never been pulled over. Heck one trip was all through Canada and through VT out to Laconia.
I did some searching to find out when the law was changed in VA (prior to the change it was a reckless driving violation) and found as you state Vermont is the only state remaining that doesn't allow it - New law lets motorcyclists ride side by side (https://rvanews.com/news/new-law-lets-motorcyclists-ride-side-by-side/59280) (as of the printing of that article - April 2012).
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
I've ridden in NJ for 45 yrs. My motorcycle license is NJ and most of the guys I ride with are licensed in NJ. While the rider's manual suggests "never riding side-by-side" it is not illegal. There is no penalty or ticketable offense for riding side-by-side in NJ. Its done by thousands of motorcycle riders during every group ride on just about every nice weather weekend. As stated, VT is the only state where its illegal and I ride frequently in VT and going through many local towns during group rides most riders will be side-by-side when conditions are safe.
-
Each to his own and I'll get side by side with riding with a group of friends only when coming to a stop light / stop sign. Once we are moving it is staggered all the way. Now in traffic the stagger may be tight but it is still staggered. I know my friends well and trust them implicitly but chit happens that sometimes requires maneuvering and I don't what anyone to share my lane with me. Just my $.02.
-
The law in NJ states only one vehicle may occupy a lane at one time, motorcycles are considered vehicles. I am a career law enforcement officer, and a motor officer, while I have never issued a summons, for lane sharing, and know of no officer who has; IT IS ON THE BOOKS.
-
The law in NJ states only one vehicle may occupy a lane at one time, motorcycles are considered vehicles. I am a career law enforcement officer, and a motor officer, while I have never issued a summons, for lane sharing, and know of no officer who has; IT IS ON THE BOOKS.
Good info and straight from a knowledgeable source.
As Hub would say,,,,,, "There endeth the lesson"
-
The law in NJ states only one vehicle may occupy a lane at one time, motorcycles are considered vehicles. I am a career law enforcement officer, and a motor officer, while I have never issued a summons, for lane sharing, and know of no officer who has; IT IS ON THE BOOKS.
I stand corrected. Learned something new from a reliable source. Although its worth noting there are numerous NJ motorcycle law summaries that state "motorcycle riding 2 abreast is not referenced in administrative code or statute".
http://www.forums.midatlanticxriders.com/index.php?topic=313
-
Agree with most of what is said about riding in groups. I don't mind small groups of people like 1 or 2 other bikes that I know. I don't like the larger groups that really go from food (or drink) place to the next. The last ride I was on someone did go off the road and it wasn't a difficult turn just too many bikes making them nervous. One thing to call out is riding side by side is very cool but consider maybe not the safest. If someone has to avoid something or whatever there is no room to move. I do ride side by side occasionally especially when just having fun or trying to communicate but usually it is more staggered. Just a thought.
I did not say it was the safest to ride side by side. I do frequently ride side by side at the MC I am in rides side by side. However my comment was I feel safer riding side by side with my club than I do in a staggered group ride in a HOG chapter.
I feel safer because in my Club you have to know how to ride, and ride well or you will not earn your patch. I also know how every one in the club rides, and what to expect. In the HOG chapter I would consider most of them beginners at best. We have several in the HOG chapter who have rode less in the last ten years I have known them than I ride in a year.
I know the safest is to not ride side by side. When our club does its annual vacation out west we ride close stager.
-
I did not say it was the safest to ride side by side. I do frequently ride side by side at the MC I am in rides side by side. However my comment was I feel safer riding side by side with my club than I do in a staggered group ride in a HOG chapter.
I feel safer because in my Club you have to know how to ride, and ride well or you will not earn your patch. I also know how every one in the club rides, and what to expect. In the HOG chapter I would consider most of them beginners at best. We have several in the HOG chapter who have rode less in the last ten years I have known them than I ride in a year.
I know the safest is to not ride side by side. When our club does its annual vacation out west we ride close stager.
That is truth right there. Riding side by side requires a lot of experience plus way more focus, and you gotta trust your partner.
Personally, I feel safer side by side as with two of us in the lane cages seem to notice us more. But, we also don't ride like that when we're banging twisties. There are times it IS safer, and times it ain't.
I know someone who had their right leg torn off while riding staggered because the right lane rider didn't see the right-turn signal and ran right into him as he crossed in front to make the right. No matter the formation, when you're on a bike you can get messed up real fast if people don't pay attention. Riding side by side forces you to pay more attention, but you lose reaction time as everyone is tighter. There are rules for that and everyone in the pack knows them and how to react. Cops ride like this too and if it was as dangerous as everyone thinks, they wouldn't be doing it either.
-
I sure have not noticed that with my 17 SESG. She pulls right up to 5K or more. Only time it quits pulling is when you hit the speed limiter.
the first three gears pulled to red line then somewhere in fourth it just hit a wall, must have been the limiter. when all that happened i backed out of it and speedo was in the mid 90s. will say they seem to be pretty quick even the 107 i took for a spin was ok, both were just lill test rides. so how you liking the bat wing now that you have some miles behind it? for me im going to wait on a shark
-
the first three gears pulled to red line then somewhere in fourth it just hit a wall, must have been the limiter. when all that happened i backed out of it and speedo was in the mid 90s. will say they seem to be pretty quick even the 107 i took for a spin was ok, both were just lill test rides. so how you liking the bat wing now that you have some miles behind it? for me im going to wait on a shark
I can live with the Batwing, but much prefer the Shark. The 14 and new batwings are much improved from the 13 and earlier. I hated the 13 and earlier. I would be on a Shark now if a CVO RG would have been produced this year. The new front suspension is a very good improvement. I also like the new motor, just hope it is reliable. First 2300 miles have been great.
Very slow speed and very high speed is where the shark really shines over the Batwing.
-
My first test of a 2017 Road Glide...I was surprised with the new mtr, and how it preformed, smooth, stable, acc was good and somewhat quit.
The dealer here in MO. did put a mild cam in it, but the overall performance didn't seem all that, only my RK was, is not so quit.
Must say I've given some thought to a Street Glide CVO come the new year.
Best to all and keep riding.
-
I have to assume this person is just as clueless as the dealership, if he actually accepted that ignorant response. I can't wrap my head around the idea of ANYONE of driving age not knowing you don't keep driving or riding with the oil light on.
What was the problem, no oil in the pan or the oil pump quit working? If it was no oil in the pan, I'll be interested in seeing who winds up having to take responsibility for the repairs.
Jerry
I just found out the owner got a new engine very quickly and that it was the oil pump that went out. Don't worry you Beta testers out there, the MoCo will fix it.
-
I have been on many rides with members from this site. I usually try to ride between those that I have ridden with before. Once had a newer member in front of me that I luckily was watching when making a left turn this person moved from right to left in my spot. I never said anything but glad I was paying attention and made the correction. Said offender never even knew. :o
-
I have been on many rides with members from this site. I usually try to ride between those that I have ridden with before. Once had a newer member in front of me that I luckily was watching when making a left turn this person moved from right to left in my spot. I never said anything but glad I was paying attention and made the correction. Said offender never even knew. :o
Ok so what's this have to do with anything here!!! Really are you just venting in the wrong forum?
-
Ok so what's this have to do with anything here!!! Really are you just venting in the wrong forum?
I believe it was meant to go along with the off topic posts above.