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[SDCVO]

Twinotter, i know this sounds like I am arguing but I took delivery of a BMW 7 series a couple of moths earlier for my wife and I drive a Q7 in my "real life". I have had the BMW in the shop much more then my HD even though they both have about the same miles and spent more money on both cars after delivery to "make them right" then I did on the RG. Either one of my cars or my motorcycle is "basic transportation" but all 3 are awesome but they didn't come that way...

[SDCVO]

Sorry, I mean "not basic transportation"...

[twinotter]

 Hi San Diego CVO: It seems to be the way of the world, everything gets so complicated that it can't sustain itself, cars (no specific brand) being a good example. I've known people here that bought cars that threw trouble codes since day one.
 A Harley by car standards is a very simple mechanical machine, they've strived hard to keep it that way too. I think a vast majority of HD sales are based on the nostaligic and loyalty of owners.  My point was and is that Harley has deliberately lower their standards,buying inferior overseas parts, going from forged cranks to cast while refusing to deal with an issue they could have years ago. Emissions has brought these nice motorcycles almost to its knees, it will take a major redesign of the entire engine to save them now.
I love my Harley, with its little quirks, it has nothing on it that is not required for function, it takes me back in time to a simpler life, just the road, and some songs in my head. No FI, no radio, no GPS,no ABS etc. Fill with gas, GO hehe. My T124 motor gets 42 mpg (US) at 70mph, my buds CVO Streetglide get 30 on good days, retuned so it doesn't boil the oil. Simple is better, I think. Repairs on my bike in last 5 yrs have cost $12 (tires are not repairs).
 I'm leaving in 3 wks for a 8000mile trip, I expect no problems no matter the conditions. I will change oils as required on the trip, thats it! Have a great, untroubled day.  Happy July 4th.  twinotter 

[Midnight Rider]

Victory is a nice motorcycle, particularly their more "naked" models.  The only touring model they make I would even consider is the Cross Country...the Vision is a nice bike as well, but I can't get past the look of it.  It's an air cooled motor, despite the fact that the heads are "oil cooled"...it's still dependent on air for heat transfer, so when it's 90 degrees outside, it's going to run hot like any other air cooled motor.  Most Victory's I've seen have had Stage I or II mods done to them as well, which include EPA violations, just like we do to our Harleys.  They are good bikes, and have claimed some of the marketshare.  One concern is that they do not have the dealer network in place, so IF you did have a problem on the road, it could be a PITA to get it fixed.  Of course, the probability of having a problem may be less, but I haven't studied the statistics to make a statement like that one way or the other. 

Harley has had some pretty significant issues in the past few years, particularly with their introduction of the 110" engine and not properly testing it prior to putting it out there for us to test for them, then taking what seems like forever to come up with a real fix for the issues.  Their use of cheaper key parts is also a poor decision.  It's all about the $$, which is not a good thing all the time.  HD faces some real challenges in the not too distant future, especially as their most loyal customer base...the "Baby Boomers" start getting too old to ride...attracting the younger riders, who expect quality in every respect when they purchase a vehicle of any description, is going to be difficult for them with their current quality control issues.  A lot of us over the age of 50 or so grew up with vehicles that we were constantly having to do stuff to...tune ups, brake jobs, front end alignment, etc were regular maintenance items.  Now, we all (for the most part) drive vehicles that you just drive and change the oil in, with the occasional brake job.  The point being that we don't seem to mind "tinkering" with out bikes...in fact, a lot of us rather enjoy it.  But most young folks I know do not have that mindset.  The "to hell with the customer, they'll sell anyway" days are numbered, so HD had better re-evaluate their corporate philosophy before they are caught too far behind the curve to catch up.  If they can't figure out a way to ensure that key engine components like crankshafts, lifters, valve stem seals, cam bearings are dead on reliable, it doesn't speak very highly of their regard for the consumer of their products.  It ain't rocket science.

[bobne]

The original reason for this thread has gotten off track, but it still has some good discussions. I traded my 2009 Fatboy in on my 2010 Softail Convertible since the Fatboy was a dog and I wanted something more powerful - that's why I spend LOTS of money on a Screamin' Eagle 110 bike. But when my neighbor's stock 2009 96 cu in. Fat Bob could out run my big bad CVO I was pretty disappointed. So after talking to both Harley dealers in town (Omaha, NE) I had it dyno tuned and got the performance back to what it should have been when I bought it. I shouldn't have had to spend the extra time and money doing that! But I'm still disappointed in its performance, that's why I was asking about cams, etc.
Maybe subconsciously I am comparing it to the 2009 VRod I had. I know the hardcore Harley person will not accept this engine but it sure as hell is better than the existing twin cam!! I consider myself a hardcore Harley person - I'm on my seventh Harley - but I sure can see Harley needs to so something  to fix the existing engine. I also have an Ultra Limited and a new Street Glide - neither one I can ride in town in summer without cooking my right leg off!
I like the looks and sound of a Harley, and I'll probably never get ride of the ones I have, but it sure would be nice if the Harley engine design department would come up with a well-designed well-made engine

[Midnight Rider]

This is just a guess, but in '09, the emissions standards were different, and IF your friend was running a completely stock bike, his tune might be slightly richer (A/F ratio) than your bike.  Harley has to meet EPA standards, and that's not just about emmisions, but noise goes into that overall equation as well.  If you buy an air cooled HD and are not happy with a stock running bike, getting it tuned properly is a given in the Universe.  How many HD bikes do you see/hear that have stock exhaust systems on them?  Around here, I'd venture to say it is less than 10%.  Even a bone stock bike can benefit from a good tune, just from a drivability standpoint.  That's just something you have to know you're going to have to do going in.  I'm not saying it's necessarily right, but it is what it is.

Comparing it to a Vrod is an apples to oranges thing.  I had a '06 SEVROD...stock, it had a stumble from 3-4K.  It was a common issue.  Put PCIII on it and it was good to go.  But it would smoke my '06 SEUC.

[mvent]

Buddy of mine put a Cycle Rama 575,Vance and Hines HO pro pipe and a dyno tune, huge pick up in power, if I remember correctly torque was around 117 and hp just about 100, pulling real well from about 2500rpm FWIW.
BTW in a 2011 Convertible.

[CVODON]

Thread got way off topic somehow, BUT, last year I decided to test ride a Victory @ Daytona Bikeweek. Not sure what it is called but it is the one with the tourpak std. It vibrated terrible, almost as bad as my 99 Fatboy. I made it across Richard Petty Blvd, made u-turn and took it back. When I got off the demo guy said "what' the problem?", I politely told him the bike vibrates, alot, he replied, also in a pleasant tone "what type Harley do you own?" I told him a 09 RG CVO and he said, and I quote " Sorry but our bikes are very durable but will never be as smooth as your Harley at speed". I thanked him and walked away.

[twinotter]

  I guess I'm at least partley responsible for dragging the discussion off topisc here, But it has brought the reasons for the need to change things. It is my belief that HD knows exactly what they're doing, and that is chasing the almightly profit. I can't recommend any particular cam combo that answers all the questions, the aftermarket has been chasing that for several years. Engines can be made to perform within certain boundaries, you can have tractor like pull at low rpms, or mid range or top end, there really is no "one does it all".
You will have to choose your poison, and live with it, or change it again. Until HD chooses to build an engine that can control the heat issues, they will not have a viable product imo.
There are already rumors that this may happen very soon, ie water or oil cooled heads etc.
Let hope the new generation of riders get a new improved version, and HD is mart enough to make it so the parts are retrofitable to the present. We deserve better from the "best" company out there.  Jm2c FWIW twinotter 

[GreatGazoo]

Being a CVO owner....I am not a fan of the motor company, the stealers, the quality and the attitude.  I bought a very expensive bike.  It came with most of the parts loose from the dealer the day I picked it up.  Thank you for the marketing of a hand built bike that no one saw fit to make sure it would stay together and not kill me on the first ride. This tells you the level of quality, inspection, and care by the entire process.

Then I have recalls for the back brake blowing all of the oil out of the Master Cylinder and frying the LED tail light. Nice.
I still love the bike but hate the price tag. Hidden cost like:
Please check this part....$39.90 part inspection fee
Come back to see why part is still not fixed...$93.50 diagnostic fee
Whoops mechanic forgot to check part you were charged the first time to check since they did not understand what you meant to check......part free since we did not understand but our labor must be paid for.
Nice padding of their wallet.....first hidden fee

Second hidden fee
Quality or really the lack of. Whether you maintain it yourself or not....oh you will maintain it.
We work on these things because we have to. Oil problems on the 110, noise and list goes on.  All the bike has to do is last two years and then it is your problem and expense.  Think over 60K miles how much you are going to spend on your bike to get it there.  Then think about any other brand of bike and how much it will cost that bikes owner to get there.

Lessons learned for being a CVO owner.  HD marketing works wonders
CVO is a term for a dealer to say ....well we do not work on them too often so...You pay for lack of training?
HD...sells you a Screaming Eagle without mostly Screaming Eagle parts. (My bike is really a Dyna with a cool paint job, chrome and the 110 motor.  Mainly stock Dyna parts with a few special ones in a nut shell).
Do dealers really care about your bike or trying to get them out the door as fast as possible?
Some reason no one wants to know about a 110 and has written off the motor already.
Would it be cheaper to build your own "CVO" with reliable parts and not have to deal with the HD gotta attitude before they bleed you dry maintaining their less than average quality machines? 
Do you not wonder why it is now cheaper to buy a new motor than fix your own? We are the lucky recipients of a throw away motor for this expensive bike. Hell the sport bikes run longer and cheaper with the same abuse.
Love the HD marketing, it is a life style. An attitude.
Huh they are right...I am developing one 

[THUNDER MOUNTAIN]

Hi ! I have a question, its possible to use the stock cam CVO 253 from 103SE  to 110SE

[rigidthumper]

Hi ! I have a question, its possible to use the stock cam CVO 253 from 103SE  to 110SE

No, the journals for the 99-06 cams wont fit in the 07 and newer cases. If you can find a 25578-06 cam set, that's the 253's made for an 07-16 case.

[groupw]

.... How much did you spend to make your "fantastic" bike liveable?

......... it's now 6 years after the original posting that is quoted above, and HD 'livability' has apparently improved over the years
........ i spent absolutely $zero on modifications/upgrades to my '16 SERGU and it is the most wonderful ride I could ask for.
....... it's just not yellow......... damn.