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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: krackken on November 16, 2023, 06:55:18 AM
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I have had a 110 to 117 kit installed. Dealer says only 98hp and 112tq ??? My 110 had 115.85tq
They tell me they don’t know and it must be the exhaust. I have true duals. Even with true duals, would I lose torque going up to 117?
117 kit with changes below
Adjustable pushrods
SE cam plate and oil pump
Woods tw-7h
.03 gasket
Any help would be appreciated.
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One of the experts on here will know. My guess is the cam and compression you have are not optimal together. I used the Harley kit with the 58mm intake, tts150 cam, .030 head gasket and got 114/125 with no head work. I did have 1.75" fullsac baffles that I think kept my numbers down a little. I have a nice flat torque curve with loads of power early.
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Thanks, yeah I have duals with Tab slip-ons. they removed the baffles totally as well as put on my old slip-ons which had 2.5" baffles.
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I have the 7H in my 110 with 103/117. Seems weird to me that your numbers are so low. I will be watching this thread, hopefully learning more. I love this group for learning.
Cheers
Paul
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Well there are "happy" and "sad" dynos out there. Also inflated numbers by virtue of testing methods and correction factors.
That said I would first have the build leak down and compression tested.
You may also have a very poor tune.
The pipe didn't change from 110 to 117" right? Everything should go up.
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Correct. The headers and pipes are the same. They keep saying “there is nothing wrong with the build or it wouldn’t run right and it’s running great, it’s just not getting the power it should”.
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krackken, How does it feel in a nice roll on from 2500 to 4500 rpm in 4th or 5th gear? Your impressions of power on the road before and after please.
What bike do you ride also?
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2011 cvo ultra. It’s still at their shop. They are trying to figure out what is wrong.
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2011 cvo ultra. It’s still at their shop. They are trying to figure out what is wrong.
Sounds like they realize something is up then, your problem will be resolved and there will be a happy ending. :2vrolijk_21:
What tuning device is being used?
Can’t wait to hear the rest of the story.
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Sometimes a sumping problem presents like this. Sumping is not always extreme, it which case the results would have been even worse. If it were mine I would check that also.
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The graph you posted above shows blue line 110.55 tq. and the red line112.18 tq. Is this before and after? Where did you get the 115 number? All dynos vary in numbers like said above.
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The blue graph I posted is the first run after completing the build and the second is after the tune. The cam was recommended by Bob Woods himself. The dealer keeps saying that it is running great but it's just not getting the numbers. They said I need a 2-1. So I ordered a 2-1 that is coming. It just doesn't make sense to me though. If I have the same air filter which is a trask and same open flow headers with slip-ons. How would the 117 with higher compression pistons and 5.3 injectors and 58mm Throttle body produce less Torque and hardly any better hp? They are using a dynojet with power vision
Here is the dyno when it was a 110;
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Which tuner is being used?
What is the tune file number for the final run? ...in other words how many runs did it take to get to this final tune?
The afr lines look like they simply tried to align on the graph which doesn't always produce a good tune.
What compression did they end up with?
Was anything done with timing?
I do not believe that a 2-1 header is going to solve this.
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I'm not sure which version they are using on the dyno. It is a power vision. They have spent about 10 hours on the dyno they said. They said it seem to run very strong and great with no poping or issues. It's just not producing the numbers it should. i'm not sure exactly. Using the compression calculator with an average 95cc heads it should be around 9.45 corrected compression.
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For info, I found this thread from 2013. Im not smart enough to link it but here is the topic: Cam change question regarding tw-7h. It does not discuss the 117 kit, but does provide some results others have had with this cam.
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Looking at cams or cam brands is futile out of the context of all of the rest of the parts, especially factoring in the pipe and tune. When mining for economy, driveability, and torque/power timing is critically important, AFR important but not so much. Adjustment of the ETC is also important if the bike is equipped with that. Most tunes have timing tables untouched. Many tuners do not know how to go there, how to test.
Back several messages ago I mentioned engine health. If the rings are not sealing none of the comparisons of before and after adding 7 cubic inches matters. The spigots of those cylinders are .028" per side. Not a fan. A proper 117" needs a case bore and stable cylinders.
My stock CVO 110 with just a cam change pipe and tune made 100/110 SAE on a very stingy dyno.
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For info, I found this thread from 2013. Im not smart enough to link it but here is the topic: Cam change question regarding tw-7h (https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=90787.0). It does not discuss the 117 kit, but does provide some results others have had with this cam.
Link inserted.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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The 117 drop in cylinders had some issues early on with being true. Don't know if that problem was resolved in the newer cylinders. I would sure like to know what the CCP is at and depending on that number maybe a leak down
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Finally got it tuned correctly!
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That looks much better. Private dyno or different tech at the dealer?
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That looks much better. Private dyno or different tech at the dealer?
Yep, curious minds want to know.
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Nice, give us a real world on the road report.
What was the issue?
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Looks a bit, more as it should... :orange:
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Much Better!
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They replaced the exhaust with a jackpot rtx 2-1 exhaust and did a retune, from the same dealer.