Topic: Sumping on a 18 (Read 5271 times)

hrdtail78 · « **on:** January 30, 2019, 02:16:04 PM »

Pulled out about 40 oz of oil out the sump drain. Took everything apart because I just installed aftermarket pump and plate. As I do. I always spin engine with starter while PR are out. This pumps the lifters and shows me I am primed with pressure before I move on. Rear lifters we’re putting out more oil that I have ever seen in any engine. Further investigation. I found this. That’s a lot of unmetered oil entering the engine.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2019, 02:24:30 PM »

Here you can see a casting flaw.

hawgzilla · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2019, 02:51:00 PM »

Great catch!!!

Robmay · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2019, 04:07:47 PM »

Wow.

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mark · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2019, 04:19:54 PM »

It's time to come out with the M9. The M8 is never going to be right.

bigchuck · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM »

Quote from: Mark on January 30, 2019, 04:19:54 PM

It's time to come out with the M9. The M8 is never going to be right.

Not exactly sure how a 2 cylinder 9 valve engine will work

rayson56 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2019, 06:45:57 PM »

Damn!!

chstrahl · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2019, 07:34:56 PM »

Showing my ignorance here... what is the fix for the sumping issue?

mark · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2019, 09:05:40 PM »

Quote from: bigchuck on January 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM

Not exactly sure how a 2 cylinder 9 valve engine will work

Haha...hopefully better than the two cly., eight valve...

Bav · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2019, 06:39:07 AM »

Quote from: bigchuck on January 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM

Not exactly sure how a 2 cylinder 9 valve engine will work

You could have a M10

I used to have an R1 that had 5 valve heads

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OBB · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2019, 07:52:55 AM »

Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 30, 2019, 02:24:30 PM

Here you can see a casting flaw.

Help us that are less knowledgeable about this stuff out please. Where's the casting flaw? What are we looking for and what should it look like? Thanks

grc · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:09:24 AM »

I'm guessing where I've added the red arrows.

Jerry

harleytuner · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:33:12 AM »

Quote from: grc on January 31, 2019, 08:09:24 AM

I'm guessing where I've added the red arrows.

Jerry

No, just to the right of your arrow, in the pocket there, there's a hole allowing the light to shine through.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:34:50 AM »

Oiling on a m8. A feed gallery goes down the middle of the lifters and then T’s off to the lifters. Then it T’s off again to the piston jets. The flashlight is in the rear intake lifter hole. It is shining down the hole that is drilled to connect the main oil feed gallery to get oil to the lifter. You can see a little spec of light coming through a part of the case that is cast in. That hole is allowing oil to bypass lifters and pour into the cam compartment unmetered.

grc · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:36:03 AM »

Quote from: harleytuner on January 31, 2019, 08:33:12 AM

No, just to the right of your arrow, in the pocket there, there's a hole allowing the light to shine through.

Ah yes, now I see it. Thanks.

Jerry

ultrafxr · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2019, 10:42:11 AM »

I guess the moco would refer to that as a porous casting, lol. Good that you caught it before buttoning up the motor. That' s causing some serious sumping for certain. But I'd think this is an anomaly albeit a very serious one. Wouldn't think this is typical of M8 motors that are sumping.

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2019, 11:58:13 AM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on January 31, 2019, 10:42:11 AM

I guess the moco would refer to that as a porous casting, lol. Good that you caught it before buttoning up the motor. That' s causing some serious sumping for certain. But I'd think this is an anomaly albeit a very serious one. Wouldn't think this is typical of M8 motors that are sumping.

Easy enough to check. Collapse tubes, take out plugs, and crank engine. If oil bubbles out of the cover. You have a problem. I am inclined to do this before the cost of taking engine apart and do some labor intensive modifications that would turn out just to be a Band-Aid if the supply side was never addressed.

charles05663 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2019, 12:31:22 PM »

If it is a systematic casting flaw, HD has some major issues. It is going to cost HD and/or their suppliers big time.

On the other hand, if someone was to tear down their engine, HD could/would claim that the violated their warranty and it was not their fault.

RivRaptor · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2019, 12:59:04 PM »

Wow.....interesting find

J.D. · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2019, 02:17:08 PM »

This is an absolutely incredible discovery. Significant volume of hot oil will certainly move through that hole at operating temperature/pressure.

harleytuner · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2019, 02:40:22 PM »

Quote from: 2002FXDWG3 on January 31, 2019, 02:17:08 PM

This is an absolutely incredible discovery. Significant volume of hot oil will certainly move through that hole at operating temperature/pressure.

True that. I wonder how much oil the top end was robbed.

98fxstc · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2019, 04:49:43 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on January 31, 2019, 10:42:11 AM

I guess the moco would refer to that as a porous casting, lol. Good that you caught it before buttoning up the motor. That' s causing some serious sumping for certain. But I'd think this is an anomaly albeit a very serious one. Wouldn't think this is typical of M8 motors that are sumping.

Could be an anomaly in this particular casting or a problem with the mold which would give rise to a problem with all of the castings from that mold.

mark · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2019, 08:28:36 PM »

Quote from: 98fxstc on January 31, 2019, 04:49:43 PM

Could be an anomaly in this particular casting or a problem with the mold which would give rise to a problem with all of the castings from that mold.

"They all do that."

Tn.Heritage · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2019, 08:05:01 AM »

Can this area be stopped up with something that would eliminate the excessive flow ?

Phantom309 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2019, 09:48:53 PM »

Isn't that nice? ... typical quality work/parts from HD. Clean all the oil off real good, slap on some JB Weld and it'll be better than any fix the dealer would do for you ... or put you through.

Skipper · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2019, 05:58:24 PM »

OK. What you are saying is, that particular casting flaw is what cause engine to Sump?

Skipper

wfolarry · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2019, 10:17:33 AM »

good catch. Definitely can see how that would be a problem.

J.D. · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2019, 10:38:47 AM »

For reference, on the twin cams, there was a design change in 2000 to add an extra oil passage to the camplate. If you use the later (2000-2006) design camplate on the 1999 models, this extra oil passage, like a 1/4" diameter hole, needs to be plugged. If not plugged, it blows oil directly into the camchest via this unplugged passage. I helped a guy diagnose this after he upgraded his camchest and didn't plug this hole. Just at idle, his engine would completely suck the oil pan dry and fill the camchest in about 40 seconds and sump it.

https://manualzz.com/doc/6336069/instructions---harley

hrdtail78 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2019, 12:17:26 PM »

I don't see why someone couldn't stick a 15/64 brass rod covered in Vaseline down the drill oil passage. Grind out the powder coat and pour some high speed two part epoxy into the casting void. Something with 3960 psi and could take up to 550 temp. I have never seen any two part come apart in pieces. If it failed I think it would come as one piece because it got detached from casting material. With the location of the anti rotation block covering this void. I can't see it going any where and the problem would be back to the leak. The S&S blocks do cover more of the void but the stock blocks would work the same.

CJ CYCLE · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2019, 01:39:46 PM »

Quote from: bigchuck on January 30, 2019, 06:40:30 PM

Not exactly sure how a 2 cylinder 9 valve engine will work

Milwaukee 16 is in the the works!

Author Topic: Sumping on a 18 (Read 5271 times)

mark

mark

J.D.

mark

J.D.