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Author Topic: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020  (Read 7507 times)

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Twolanerider

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 04:18:36 PM »

So much that is in some or many ways different in the development pipeline all at the same time?  One can (at least potentially) applaud the effort and admire some of the concepts (pre-prototype, vaporware, or something in between though they may be).  Can not help but be concerned about this future in the context of their development history though.  MoCo hasn't proved for a very long time to be able to do one new thing at a time and do it well.  The notion of doing several major efforts at once has to make one's special parts curl up and hide behind his belly button.
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BigLock

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 05:06:14 PM »

The motors look like a VRod motor in disguise
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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 08:39:18 PM »

Really hope Harley is successful in there efforts. They will be competing in the most competitive and established categories in the motorcycle industry.

The adventure motorcycle category is well established with brand loyal riders. Many established and proven choices from top brands. Companies with extensive experience.

The sport bike market is not only extremely competitive but price sensitive too! Brands with racing experience and loyal riders.

Harleys number one competitive advantage will be it's large dealer network in the USA, marketing and brand name.

The question is; as Harley becomes more like other brands will it dilute their image?

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Twolanerider

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 09:14:53 PM »


Harleys number one competitive advantage will be it's large dealer network in the USA,


That's a consideration I'd not had yet.  We know that some of the shops are good.  We also unfortunately know that many are a hazard waiting for a problem to happen.  Imagine those shops with a newly released fleet of newly designed bikes that those shops have zero practical familiarity with.
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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 10:25:35 PM »

That's a consideration I'd not had yet.  We know that some of the shops are good.  We also unfortunately know that many are a hazard waiting for a problem to happen.  Imagine those shops with a newly released fleet of newly designed bikes that those shops have zero practical familiarity with.
Look at the issues they had with the 14 Rushmore bikes. Leaking coolant, hydraulic brake issues, radiator caps, water pumps.

This was a simple update compared to these bikes. A truly competitive sport bike is going to need clutchless shifting, traction control, high HP, advanced electronic systems and that is based on today. Two years from now competing is going to be much tougher. Competitors are going to prepare for these bikes to arrive.

Bottom line; motorcycle riders and customers will benefit from the competition.

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guppytrash

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2018, 09:37:35 AM »

This is role reversal of the "Honda Davidson" (Shadow Ace) the Yamaha Royal Star. 
All of Harley's competitors tried to throw a heavy weight cruiser into the market.

None of them competed with the Iconic sound or brotherhood of the Harley. 

Sure they sold some but they were not going to reinvent the Yamaha corp or Honda corp with these heavy weight cruiser offerings.

The buyer of an adventure bike does not need or care or want to be part of the iconic black leather, bandanna wearing, Harley crowd.
They simply want the best machine for the best price and they don't care about nostalgia or the company history or company character.

If Harley wanted to succeed in this market they had one choice and one choice only.  They needed to buy KTM or Husqvarna.  Then simply put the Harley badge on the tank.

As far as dealership network to support the "after sell" of "other than v-twin" "black leather Harley" it just simply does not work.  I have seen it first hand during the Buell era and even the
v-rod was snub by most.

Harley dealerships just are not inviting places to the NON old guy, NON heavy metal, NON black leather crowd! 

The eye rolling begins in the parking lot and continues to the service manager to the mechanic... even the sales staff ignored the Buell crowd.

It is simply annoys 98% of the Harley crowd and for the new Pan America owner he feels like he does not fit in. 

Hopefully HD has a plan to mix oil and water because I just don't see this approach getting it done.

I hope I am wrong.

   



« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 09:45:36 AM by guppytrash »
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mark

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2018, 04:21:45 PM »

Guppytrash, I agree.  However, the MoCo was between a rock and a hard place.  Unless HD figures out a way to make more Baby Boomers, the future is the next three generations.  I wonder if the MoCo, as you suggested, wouldn't have been better off buying another brand and using that nameplate to push an adventure bike and sport bike line.  HD branding is a victim of its own success - it is forever associated with a certain type of design and rider.  Much like Cadillac let itself become the car of the elderly and Kramer from Seinfeld cannot play another role.         
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kojak

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2018, 07:02:51 PM »

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kojak
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mark

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2018, 08:05:52 PM »

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imoo6170

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2018, 08:53:14 PM »

I would have liked to see a VROD engine in the Street Fighter. They are great with good power and quite reliable.
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guppytrash

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2018, 12:00:22 PM »

Guppytrash, I agree.  However, the MoCo was between a rock and a hard place.  Unless HD figures out a way to make more Baby Boomers, the future is the next three generations.  I wonder if the MoCo, as you suggested, wouldn't have been better off buying another brand and using that nameplate to push an adventure bike and sport bike line. HD branding is a victim of its own success - it is forever associated with a certain type of design and rider.  Much like Cadillac let itself become the car of the elderly and Kramer from Seinfeld cannot play another role.       

So true and well said! 

I think Harley would have benefited from buying another brand in many ways.  Separate dealerships targeting the correct crowd for one.

Putting a young person motorcycle in a current HD dealership is much like trying to draw the local College kids to the local Bingo gathering.

On top of that, my guess is HD will think that they can charge a premium price for their new models and most likely the product will be inferior to the current brand X models.

I think a couple of things could really help. 

1. The proper movie role for one of the new model HD's could turn these into an overnight success.  Think: Top Gun and Tom Cruise on the Ninja or even better The Terminator and Arnold on the Fat Boy.  Maybe even more effective than a movie role would be a spotlight role in an Xbox or Playstation game.

2. Harley needs to suck up some break even price points to make sure these are obtainable to the target generation. 
I know that may sound ridiculous to break even or lose money on a product, but if they are truly looking to gain marketshare on a new generation it may take a few years of being more attractive than brand XYZ in price. 

I just wonder if the marketing department is the same old crowd that HD has had in place to sell heavy metal.  If so, time to start a new department with a completely fresh and new crowd. 

 
 
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kojak

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2018, 06:32:07 PM »

Did anyone catch it may be made in India?
And sold there as well Im sure.
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kojak
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Aussie

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2018, 08:33:55 PM »

So true and well said! 

I think Harley would have benefited from buying another brand in many ways.  Separate dealerships targeting the correct crowd for one.

Putting a young person motorcycle in a current HD dealership is much like trying to draw the local College kids to the local Bingo gathering.
 

My thoughts exactly when I saw the new models.
A new name under the trade mark of HD opening the window to new and more dealerships.
 
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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2018, 03:03:10 PM »

The number one adventure motorcycle is the BMW GS line. Number one world wide, these are customers that put function over style, brand, everything.

Honda, KTM, Triumph, Ducati, Kawasaki and I'm sure other brands also sell into this category. Harley is going to have a tough time competing.

Even if Harley builds a good bike they are going to have a heck of a time selling these riders.

The number one target market for Harley is going to end up being there own customers. Guys that have a traditional  Harley and want an adventure bike or sport bike. Didn't go well with the VRod, time will tell.

In my opinion; they should simply focus on building the highest quality HARLEYS. Might make sense to add a watercooled more powerful touring line with a more modern frame and suspension.  But what do I know.

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DesertHOG

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 12:11:20 PM »

The number one adventure motorcycle is the BMW GS line. Number one world wide, these are customers that put function over style, brand, everything.

Honda, KTM, Triumph, Ducati, Kawasaki and I'm sure other brands also sell into this category. Harley is going to have a tough time competing.

Even if Harley builds a good bike they are going to have a heck of a time selling these riders.

The number one target market for Harley is going to end up being there own customers. Guys that have a traditional  Harley and want an adventure bike or sport bike. Didn't go well with the VRod, time will tell.

In my opinion; they should simply focus on building the highest quality HARLEYS. Might make sense to add a watercooled more powerful touring line with a more modern frame and suspension.  But what do I know.

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I've seen something like this in the Aviation Electronics marketplace. The leader, Harley in this case, produces a competing product in an adjacent market and then sells at a loss to gain market share. In the Aviation market, the market leader started reducing prices to hold market share. This might be a good thing for those who want to own a GSA.

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