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CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: ..Hawk on September 15, 2008, 08:23:39 PM
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I've been reading about failures of the Heated Hand Grips. Today a Dealer told me that all replacements are on backorder without a projected delivery date. His thoughts were that the grips are being re-engineered, as his shop has seen many failures.
Can anyone confirm a new design or re engineering?
Hawk
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The longest I've had heated grips last is 3 years. Its heated gloves for me now!
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Don't know but they sure need to re-design 'cause there have been many, many failures - some multiple times. Most folks just replace them with Heat Demons: http://www.symtec-inc.com/Store/tabid/1174/ProductID/99/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
or just do a search and you can find them on ebay and motorcycle online stores. Nice product and works great. :2vrolijk_21:
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I could say that mine are almost three years old and have never had a ............
Maybe I better not say that. Don't want to jinx myself. ::)
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Would hate to buy something else as the bike is still under warranty.
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I've been reading about failures of the Heated Hand Grips. Today a Dealer told me that all replacements are on backorder without a projected delivery date. His thoughts were that the grips are being re-engineered, as his shop has seen many failures.
Can anyone confirm a new design or re engineering?
Hawk
Whether true or not this time it's a rumor that's been heard before during delivery delays. Most of the older versions of the heated grips are already on their -B revision already. That's three tries and they still fail miserably. Knocking on wood as I say this; but sure glad I've got the Heat Demons instead.
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Would hate to buy something else as the bike is still under warranty.
I'd get the Heat Demons... They're not that expensive. There is something to be said for a bike with all its parts working. Something huge - maybe use the warranty...the small stuff - just fix it (JMO).
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Checked out the Heat Demons, thanks for the information, always good to have options.
Appreciate the input from all
Thanks
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I've had my '06 CUSE since January of '06 and I haven't had any problem . . . (What am I thinking?) My heated grips are terrible. They're nothing but trouble. I fully expect them to go any day now.
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Re-Engineer read that new line of chit like O heating elemants are meant to burn out , it's a wear item.
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Mine are pooched as well.Have been backordered for six weeks and counting. Should be in by the time the warm weather riding arrives next spring. THE MUFFMAN
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I installed two sets out of the box and they did not work. The third one was the lucky charm, so i believe without a doubt they have issues and need to do something.
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I picked up my 08 SEUC on June 5. I tested the grips/seats within the first couple of days and they seemed to work. Three weeks later I took an evening ride where it was cool enough to want some heat on my bare hands -- nothing there. I now leave the grips on all the time. About every eight rides or so, they'll go on for a while. Dealer says it's the grip and not a loose connection. I've been waiting a couple of weeks for the left grip to come in for warranty replacement.
How many other SEUC owners have had heated grip problems?
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I lost the heat in my grips in July on Tioga Pass in Yosemite during a hail storm. I basically had to sit on the side of the road, on the pass with the engine running while it hailed on me (and the bike) for what seemed like an hour. The heated seat still works. I was going to have them fix the grips when I have the recall done on the heads etc. Sounds like it will be a back order drama for some time. :drink:
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I think someone here got it right, Heated Gloves are the way to go :nixweiss:
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I think someone here got it right, Heated Gloves are the way to go :nixweiss:
I thought so until I added the Heat Demons. The gloves are great. But you don't always start out with them. And it is convenient to have the grips on for those evenings or mornings when it's gotten just a bit cooler than you expected. Just a convenience thing.
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I lost the heat in my grips in July on Tioga Pass in Yosemite during a hail storm. I basically had to sit on the side of the road, on the pass with the engine running while it hailed on me (and the bike) for what seemed like an hour. The heated seat still works. I was going to have them fix the grips when I have the recall done on the heads etc. Sounds like it will be a back order drama for some time. :drink:
Hail hurts, doesn't it... ??? :'(
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I thought so until I added the Heat Demons. The gloves are great. But you don't always start out with them. And it is convenient to have the grips on for those evenings or mornings when it's gotten just a bit cooler than you expected. Just a convenience thing.
Can you use the Heat Demons on the new touring bikes with RBW throttles? All of the heated grips in the HD catalog say not for use with internal wiring, and the grips that are on the '09 CVO UC aren't listed.
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Can you use the Heat Demons on the new touring bikes with RBW throttles? All of the heated grips in the HD catalog say not for use with internal wiring, and the grips that are on the '09 CVO UC aren't listed.
No, they'd not work with the electronic throttle controlled bikes. The heating element slides inside the handlebar. Fly by wire bikes already have that space partially occupied.
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I tried my grips for the first time this summer and of course they don't work any more. >:(
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No, they'd not work with the electronic throttle controlled bikes. The heating element slides inside the handlebar. Fly by wire bikes already have that space partially occupied.
Looking at the parts blow-out of the HD heating element, it looks like they too go inside the handlebar. What am I missing?
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The dial on the left grip of my last set appears to be different than the other set. Possibly HD upgraded/changed them somewhat. Used them once & so far they work.
Will keep these as long as the waranty is in effect & then if they go will change to Heat Demons.
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Are the elements inside the handle bars or are they part of the grip ??
When the replace the heating elements under warranty do they replace the entire Ironside grips or just the element ??
Are the heat demons an option for the 08-09 TBW bikes or is that still not an option ??
Did anyone find any problems with the heated grips besides just the elements, like the control knob or faulty wiring ??
Thx
DD
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Are the elements inside the handle bars or are they part of the grip ??
When the replace the heating elements under warranty do they replace the entire Ironside grips or just the element ??
Are the heat demons an option for the 08-09 TBW bikes or is that still not an option ??
Did anyone find any problems with the heated grips besides just the elements, like the control knob or faulty wiring ??
Thx
DD
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As far as I know the elements are part of the grip itself.
They replace the entire grip.
Not sure on 08-09.
The control knob appears to be the failure point on the HD grips. Mine shocked the crap out of my left thumb after they failed. Probably a wire short. At times I almost miss that, for some reason......
Mike
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I installed the wires from nightrider to help get away from the lean running machine, and my Handgrips started working.
Must be a coincidence, but I'll enjoy them while I can.
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Mine are pooched as well.Have been backordered for six weeks and counting. Should be in by the time the warm weather riding arrives next spring. THE MUFFMAN
UPDATE. My new grips were installed by HD yesterday. I didn't pick up the bike last night. Got back too late.. Lets see how long these babies last this time. THE MUFFMAN
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UPDATE. My new grips were installed by HD yesterday. I didn't pick up the bike last night. Got back too late.. Lets see how long these babies last this time. THE MUFFMAN
How many sets have you had, Muffman? Since you live in an area with a cooler climate, figure you give them more use than some of us do in other areas.
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How many sets have you had, Muffman? Since you live in an area with a cooler climate, figure you give them more use than some of us do in other areas.
This is only my second set. They went out in April but I couldn't bring myself to take it to an HD Dealer until absolutely necessary. They were ordered early August & just came in.I'm sure it won't be my last.THE MUFFMAN
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This is only my second set. They went out in April but I couldn't bring myself to take it to an HD Dealer until absolutely necessary. They were ordered early August & just came in.I'm sure it won't be my last.THE MUFFMAN
Thanks. My second set was just installed. The dial on the left grip appeared to be a little different than the other set.
Hope they last - have already checked out the Heat Demons & they look like a good option but as long as I have a warranty & these HD grips keep failing - not sure when (if?) I will make the move.
Mike
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Thanks. My second set was just installed. The dial on the left grip appeared to be a little different than the other set.
Hope they last - have already checked out the Heat Demons & they look like a good option but as long as I have a warranty & these HD grips keep failing - not sure when (if?) I will make the move.
Mike
You & me both. I have the 7 year warranty on this thing & I'll be sure & make use of every last hour of warranty. THE MUFFMAN
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Hey all - I'm on my third set of heated grips. Perhaps the third time is a charm, but here's what I did to remedy the constant grip burnout. Have you ever noticed how much rust and crud accumulates at the open end of the left handlebar? That's because water gets in when you wash your bike or when it rains. Your bike also leans to the left when it's on the jiffy stand so gravity pushes any moisture directly for the end of the left grip. Unfortunately, the controller for the HD heated grips just happens to be located right where the water gathers and as we all know mixing electricity and water usually has a bad result i.e. shorts. One member even mentioned getting a jolt from the grip. Ouch! So I waterproofed the grip assembly during installation by applying silicone sealant to the end of the grip that locks inside the switch cover. I also put a thin coat on the handlebars themselves. It's been more than a year since the install and so far so good (knock on wood). Hope this suggestion helps out. PJ
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good idea,, i think you're on to something. Thanks for the tip :2vrolijk_21:
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don't even get me started.......too late... I have had the left grip replaced, both grips replaces, a special set from the moco sent in to be replaced and guess what here it comes.....they still don't work. I am out of gripping about my grips.
Oh then the seat stopped working but now that is fixed 3rd time so while I have had 2 sets of heads put on and "The Program" done noting gets me madder than the heated grips or the unheated grips in this case.
I think the MOCO should buy us all heated gloves and call a duck a duck. :jack:
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after 3 sets i just gave up and put regular grips on.
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how sad to have you biggest purchasers give up. :'(
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The Heat Demons appear to be an excellent product & actually work.
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The Heat Demons appear to be an excellent product & actually work.
wished they had a TBW version
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wished they had a TBW version
I recently had the only failure I think any of us have known on the Heat Demons. It was a DOA element on the set I put in the SERG. Symtec was great on the service/support end replacing the part and getting it out. It was an exceptional experience with a vendor.
While I was chatting with them about the part failure we got to talking about their upcoming products. If they don't have a electronic throttle version out yet they have to be very very close. When I spoke with them a couple months ago it was expected to be ready a month or so later. I just left a message with Mike Alemang (that's who we worked with there before for the group buy) to find out for sure. Will let you know when he calls back.
They also had a soon to be released product that was sort of a generic solution for various problems that don't always exist. They were going to release a power plug that was controlled at the grips. Going to use a clamp mounted switch like the heat demons have. This switch would turn a remotely mounted power plug on and off. I kept thinking of it as a second accessory switch. Useful for auxiliary lighting or other things I guess you'd not think of until the need arises.
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I recently had the only failure I think any of us have known on the Heat Demons. It was a DOA element on the set I put in the SERG. Symtec was great on the service/support end replacing the part and getting it out. It was an exceptional experience with a vendor.
While I was chatting with them about the part failure we got to talking about their upcoming products. If they don't have a electronic throttle version out yet they have to be very very close. When I spoke with them a couple months ago it was expected to be ready a month or so later. I just left a message with Mike Alemang (that's who we worked with there before for the group buy) to find out for sure. Will let you know when he calls back.
They also had a soon to be released product that was sort of a generic solution for various problems that don't always exist. They were going to release a power plug that was controlled at the grips. Going to use a clamp mounted switch like the heat demons have. This switch would turn a remotely mounted power plug on and off. I kept thinking of it as a second accessory switch. Useful for auxiliary lighting or other things I guess you'd not think of until the need arises.
Wish they had a version of HD to fit the Strato, but nothing on their site that would work with the bar switch. May have to adapt one of the snowmobile versions somehow. The extra aux power switch would come in handy too.
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Spoke with Mike Alemang at Symtec this afternoon. This is the company that makes the Heat Demons grips so many of us have had such good luck with previously.
Mike informs us that they do have a package now for the newer bikes with electronic throttle. They are ready to go. Very limited supply in the vendor channel so far but they can be purchased directly from Symtec. 763-571-9313 is company phone. Ask for Mike Alemang.
He is also willing to do a group buy for these new kits as we did in large number a couple years ago for their prior Harley kit. Since the new SE Ultras have heated grips to begin I'd be surprised if there's 20 members ready to dump their in-warranty OE heated grips and try something else. That being so anyone who is ready to throw in the towel and try something that seems to have a good track record might give Mike a call.
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Can the Demons work with the factory heated grips still in place ?
Do the Demons go inside the handle bar or in the grip somehow ?
.
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Mike informs us that they do have a package now for the newer bikes with electronic throttle. They are ready to go. Very limited supply in the vendor channel so far but they can be purchased directly from Symtec. 763-571-9313 is company phone. Ask for Mike Alemang.
TwoLaneRider,
thanks for the info and follow up. I'll call Mike tomorrow and order a set up. This is good timing since I am in middle of replacing stock bars with Wild Ones. Bars were suppose to come in today but i guess UPS didn't make deliveries today. Will let everyone know how these work out.
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Can the Demons work with the factory heated grips still in place ?
Do the Demons go inside the handle bar or in the grip somehow ?
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Only spoke with Mike/Symtec about the existence of the product and current availability. For details on installation/fitment you'll need to call Symtec.
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TwoLaneRider,
thanks for the info and follow up. I'll call Mike tomorrow and order a set up. This is good timing since I am in middle of replacing stock bars with Wild Ones. Bars were suppose to come in today but i guess UPS didn't make deliveries today. Will let everyone know how these work out.
Have no idea if in fact will or not but it can't hurt to mention being part of the CVO group. Mike knows we bought several sets from him before and I've spoken with him now about at least the potential for more sales.
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Have no idea if in fact will or not but it can't hurt to mention being part of the CVO group. Mike knows we bought several sets from him before and I've spoken with him now about at least the potential for more sales.
TwoLaneRider,
Here is a copy of Mikes reply regarding 2008-09 models. They even have a kit for the 1.25 bars. It sounds like you may have called him about the group buy discounts. Once we get the info posted for the group buy I will buy a set via the group buy. Thanks for sparking this up.
Yes.. I can confirm that we have a kit for the 08-09 touring models. We also have a kit that will work for 1.25" bars and 08 touring combined. The part
number is:
210045CETCHUB 08 touring/1.25" handlebars/Chrome switch
210046BETCHUB 08 touring/1.25" handlebars/Black switch
The retail price for the kit is $159.95.
The part number for the 08 touring kit is:
210045CET 08 tour
210046BET 08 tour
The retail price for the kit is $149.95
I just got off the phone with a person from the CVO group and I will be offering a group buy price. Please check
with the CVO group for the discount. If you want them ASAP.. Call me direct and I will take care of the order.
Thanks,
Mike
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TwoLaneRider,
Here is a copy of Mikes reply regarding 2008-09 models. They even have a kit for the 1.25 bars. It sounds like you may have called him about the group buy discounts. Once we get the info posted for the group buy I will buy a set via the group buy. Thanks for sparking this up.
Yes.. I can confirm that we have a kit for the 08-09 touring models. We also have a kit that will work for 1.25" bars and 08 touring combined. The part
number is:
210045CETCHUB 08 touring/1.25" handlebars/Chrome switch
210046BETCHUB 08 touring/1.25" handlebars/Black switch
The retail price for the kit is $159.95.
The part number for the 08 touring kit is:
210045CET 08 tour
210046BET 08 tour
The retail price for the kit is $149.95
I just got off the phone with a person from the CVO group and I will be offering a group buy price. Please check
with the CVO group for the discount. If you want them ASAP.. Call me direct and I will take care of the order.
Thanks,
Mike
I did ask Mike if he'd consider doing another group buy as we'd done with him before. After a little reflection, however, it's almost certainly a dead idea.
If I remember correctly we needed 20 sets to meet the group qty limit. That was from an application cohort that basically included every Harley out there. This group, however, would be 08-09 bikes that have had their stock heated grips crap out and have also had that happen so much the owners are tired of screwing with the still in warranty Harley replacements.
In other words not likely to hit any group qty minimums.
I'd suggest that if anyone is wanting to go this way they just call Mike and order a set. Or perhaps check with Kuryakyn to see if they've got a part number for them yet as Kury is a vendor for their prior sets. If Kuryakyn does have a number for the new set then use that number to order from M&M or Jenni or Jim or some other dealer that discounts Kuryakyn parts.
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I did ask Mike if he'd consider doing another group buy as we'd done with him before. After a little reflection, however, it's almost certainly a dead idea.
If I remember correctly we needed 20 sets to meet the group qty limit. That was from an application cohort that basically included every Harley out there. This group, however, would be 08-09 bikes that have had their stock heated grips crap out and have also had that happen so much the owners are tired of screwing with the still in warranty Harley replacements.
In other words not likely to hit any group qty minimums.
I'd suggest that if anyone is wanting to go this way they just call Mike and order a set. Or perhaps check with Kuryakyn to see if they've got a part number for them yet as Kury is a vendor for their prior sets. If Kuryakyn does have a number for the new set then use that number to order from M&M or Jenni or Jim or some other dealer that discounts Kuryakyn parts.
You have a point, i doubt enough 08-09 owners would consider while being under Warrantee. After three failed sets, i give up in Harley Heated Grips. Also i will be changing the bars out to Wild Ones 1-1/4 so need to replace anyway. I'll see if i can talk Mike out of a discount and let ya know.
thanks
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You have a point, i doubt enough 08-09 owners would consider while being under Warrantee. After three failed sets, i give up in Harley Heated Grips. Also i will be changing the bars out to Wild Ones 1-1/4 so need to replace anyway. I'll see if i can talk Mike out of a discount and let ya know.
thanks
After seeing how many of these have failed over the years, often repetitively, I'd bail after the first set rather than letting a dealer's wrench have multiple attempts to screw something else up. Throwing away in warranty repairs has to be a hard pill to swallow though. So it's understandable that multiple attempts are sometimes accepted.
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I think the demand would be higher than you would think. FLTRSE3 and FLHRSE4 owners would enjoy the new grip heater kits. Do they have any pictures of the new kits? Or maybe a copy of installation instructions?
:pumpkin: :bananarock:
Brad
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I think the demand would be higher than you would think. FLTRSE3 and FLHRSE4 owners would enjoy the new grip heater kits. Do they have any pictures of the new kits? Or maybe a copy of installation instructions?
:pumpkin: :bananarock:
Brad
They don't have 08-09 info posted on their web site but i would think the info they have posted would give you an idea of the product. You are not limited to grip choice with their product, thats another plus.. their web site is www.symtec-inc.com
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They don't have 08-09 info posted on their web site but i would think the info they have posted would give you an idea of the product. You are not limited to grip choice with their product, thats another plus.. their web site is www.symtec-inc.com
Had a question in PM about how their elements allowed use of any grip. The Heat Demons heating elements slide inside the handlebar. You do no doubt lose some efficiency and extend the time it takes to feel the heat in your hands by the grips having to warm through the bars, to the grip and through the grips to your hands. Having said that I've felt mine help keep my hands warm down to ambient temps of less than 30 degrees.
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Had a question in PM about how their elements allowed use of any grip. The Heat Demons heating elements slide inside the handlebar. You do no doubt lose some efficiency and extend the time it takes to feel the heat in your hands by the grips having to warm through the bars, to the grip and through the grips to your hands. Having said that I've felt mine help keep my hands warm down to ambient temps of less than 30 degrees.
Better then having no heats on units that are suppose to provide heat. I've seen the heating unit used in the Harley version. The Heat Demons appear to have more heating element coverage then Harley's. I cant figure out how Heat Demons will work on the TBW without using a special grip. I've had the TBW module out and i dont see any space available to insert the Heat Demon's blanket. I sent Mike an email yesterday asking if he would send me a PDF covering instructions on the TBW version. Still waiting for that.
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Better then having no heats on units that are suppose to provide heat. I've seen the heating unit used in the Harley version. The Heat Demons appear to have more heating element coverage then Harley's. I cant figure out how Heat Demons will work on the TBW without using a special grip. I've had the TBW module out and i dont see any space available to insert the Heat Demon's blanket. I sent Mike an email yesterday asking if he would send me a PDF covering instructions on the TBW version. Still waiting for that.
I was curious about what they'd changed to do the deed also. If they send docs of some kind be sure and share.
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I was curious about what they'd changed to do the deed also. If they send docs of some kind be sure and share.
I don't think Mike wants to share, he never answered my email :confused5: I'll try him again
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I don't think Mike wants to share, he never answered my email :confused5: I'll try him again
I do have a recollection that they were great on the phone. But email wasn't there best thing. Give him a call. Better yet since it's a tech question call and ask for tech support rather than Mike (he's the sales guru).
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I do have a recollection that they were great on the phone. But email wasn't there best thing. Give him a call. Better yet since it's a tech question call and ask for tech support rather than Mike (he's the sales guru).
Will give that a try tomorrow morning (Thursday)
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I do have a recollection that they were great on the phone. But email wasn't there best thing. Give him a call. Better yet since it's a tech question call and ask for tech support rather than Mike (he's the sales guru).
Got a reply back from Roland at Symtec as follows:
We are in the process of updating our instructions such that they include the fly by wire version. We will email them to you as soon as we have them updated.
As for power draw - they pull 3.5 amps which is controlled on a time proportional control - which is continuous on high except when the max temperature of the heater is reached - otherwise the duty cycle can be as low as 25% or less depending on outdoor ambient conditions.
As for the throttle side, the heater is slightly different as the sleeve which the heater is attached to is longer which puts the terminations to the heater inboard of the electronic throttle. The electronic throttle fits inside our heater sleeve which is very thin. We really appreciate Harley leaving the space for our heater - the next design would have been much more labor intensive.
As for grips - stay away from foam grips - all others so far (ISO - Billet etc) work great
Roland Knapton
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Has anyone changed their factory grips for new ones or seen the dealer do it on an Ultra ??
How hard is it to swap them ? Do you just remove the grips and unplug the wiring at the handlebar and then plug in your new grips and put them back on or do you have to undo the wiring in the fairing somewhere and take apart all the wiring in the handlebars ??
DD
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Just received a call from my service manager that my 08 SE Ultra is ready to pick up after the head replacement. It was also in for heated grip replacement. He told me the company gave him a song and dance about you've got to keep both hands on the grips for at least 10 minutes in order for them to work properly, something to do with resistance? I told him that I had ridden for 4 months and didn't see what an additional 10 minutes would prove. To the SM's credit he went ahead and replaced the left one anyhow. Has anyone ever heard such a thing. Sounds to me as though the company is doing their usual song and dance rather than addressing the real problem. As a side note the dealership does everything possible to talk buyers out of heated grips and to buy heated gloves instead. Is there a way to make an issue out of this with the company as has been done with the heads? I know it's small change in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps it would force them to do something about it.
Regards to all!
Brett
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I've gone through 3 sets under Harley's warranty and gave up on the last. Heat Demons recently came out with a 2008-09 TBW version for stock bars. They are suppose to have a set for 1-1/2 bars any day, which I'm waiting for. I think the service tech is full of BS in regards to the resistance song. Whenever mine worked, they heated up pretty quick. Some of these service techs are real good at BSing the customers. I haven't heard anyone having problems with Heat Demons. If you want to stay with heated grips, you may want to try them out.
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If all else fails, switch positions with your BSR and then use your imagination as to how to warm up your hands.
Jerry
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Just received a call from my service manager that my 08 SE Ultra is ready to pick up after the head replacement. It was also in for heated grip replacement. He told me the company gave him a song and dance about you've got to keep both hands on the grips for at least 10 minutes in order for them to work properly, something to do with resistance? I told him that I had ridden for 4 months and didn't see what an additional 10 minutes would prove. To the SM's credit he went ahead and replaced the left one anyhow. Has anyone ever heard such a thing. Sounds to me as though the company is doing their usual song and dance rather than addressing the real problem. As a side note the dealership does everything possible to talk buyers out of heated grips and to buy heated gloves instead. Is there a way to make an issue out of this with the company as has been done with the heads? I know it's small change in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps it would force them to do something about it.
Regards to all!
Brett
:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :ROFLOL:
That has got to be the best ever...using the human body as a resistor in order for heated grips to work properly...did they tell you to stick your tongue out and touch the gas cap at the same time?
I think I'll go downstairs and hold on to my natural gas line so maybe the furnace will get hotter...
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:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :ROFLOL:
That has got to be the best ever...using the human body as a resistor in order for heated grips to work properly...did they tell you to stick your tongue out and touch the gas cap at the same time?
I think I'll go downstairs and hold on to my natural gas line so maybe the furnace will get hotter...
Wizz on it TC. Better continuity ??? .
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:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :ROFLOL:
That has got to be the best ever...using the human body as a resistor in order for heated grips to work properly...did they tell you to stick your tongue out and touch the gas cap at the same time?
I think I'll go downstairs and hold on to my natural gas line so maybe the furnace will get hotter...
o.k. - that was a spew!
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:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :ROFLOL:
...did they tell you to stick your tongue out and touch the gas cap at the same time?
All will be fine, just don't inhale!
:2vrolijk_21:
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Wizz on it TC. Better continuity ??? .
It's got electronic spark ignition...that could prove very, very painful to the 'nads. ;D
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It's got electronic spark ignition...that could prove very, very painful to the 'nads. ;D
Sumbeach.
Spew Score Tonight
Site..............3
twolane.........0
If it doesn't go past midnight soon this is going to be a rout :huepfenlol2: .
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Sumbeach.
Spew Score Tonight
Site..............3
twolane.........0
If it doesn't go past midnight soon this is going to be a rout :huepfenlol2: .
You already lost in this time zone!!! :P :P :P :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Hoist! 8)
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You already lost in this time zone!!! :P :P :P :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Hoist! 8)
You're just trying to suck up for premature birthday wishes. BE PATIENT!
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You're just trying to suck up for premature birthday wishes. BE PATIENT!
Damn, he's on to me!!! ::) ;D :2vrolijk_21:
Hoist! 8)
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My grips can't make up their mind(s). Sometimes they work really well. Others they just barely get warm. No biggie. Ride 'em til they break and replace with Heat Demons.