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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: longlast on July 25, 2017, 03:38:30 PM
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I need to replace the lifters in my 07 Ultra Classic.
They've started clacking and today there's one making a noticeable hollow tapping sound at idle.
What would be the correct part number for the S&S lifters and Quickee adjustable pushrods for my year.
I don't ride hard and got around 18k on the clock. From what I've read HD stock lifters aren't very good and it seamed it's best to go with S&S replacement but I'm not sure witch one's to order.
I spoke with my dealer today and they said I need to know certain specifications to go with adjustable pushrods that go with semi hydraulic lifters?
I'm at a loss what their on about, I thought the lifters are just hydraulic and the pushrods get adjusted accordingly to adjustment spec?
Thanks for any input.
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You do not need pushrods if you remove the rocker box tops and rocker arm supports.
S&S standard lifters, part# 33-5350 $149 retail
S&S Premium Lifters, part number# 330-0175 $269 retail
The standards are fine for your application.
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For Twin Cam adjustable pushrods, "one size fits all".
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I need to replace the lifters in my 07 Ultra Classic.
They've started clacking and today there's one making a noticeable hollow tapping sound at idle.
What would be the correct part number for the S&S lifters and Quickee adjustable pushrods for my year.
I don't ride hard and got around 18k on the clock. From what I've read HD stock lifters aren't very good and it seamed it's best to go with S&S replacement but I'm not sure witch one's to order.
I spoke with my dealer today and they said I need to know certain specifications to go with adjustable pushrods that go with semi hydraulic lifters?
I'm at a loss what their on about, I thought the lifters are just hydraulic and the pushrods get adjusted accordingly to adjustment spec?
Thanks for any input.
Ask your dealer what specific specifications you need to know to go with adjustable pushrods. Then wait for the blank stare.
You are correct, the lifters are hydraulic and you adjust the pushrod length accordingly to the adjustment spec, just as you stated. You simply adjust the pushrod length until you are in the middle of the lifter internal travel. Typical standard lifter internal piston travel is approx. .200 and you want to adjust the pushrod length so you are about .100 deep into the travel.
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You do not need pushrods if you remove the rocker box tops and rocker arm supports.
S&S standard lifters, part# 33-5350 $149 retail
S&S Premium Lifters, part number# 330-0175 $269 retail
The standards are fine for your application.
Thanks hd- dude :2vrolijk_21:
I did see that S&S standard part number but wasn't sure.
Ask your dealer what specific specifications you need to know to go with adjustable pushrods. Then wait for the blank stare.
You are correct, the lifters are hydraulic and you adjust the pushrod length accordingly to the adjustment spec, just as you stated. You simply adjust the pushrod length until you are in the middle of the lifter internal travel. Typical standard lifter internal piston travel is approx. .200 and you want to adjust the pushrod length so you are about .100 deep into the travel.
Thanks sadunbar,
I thought they were given me some dirty landry on that needing spec.
I take it ( to save some expenses ) I can use the same push rods?
I'd like to pull the top covers off and check things over, so as I'll be doing that if I can use the standard rods with the S&S lifters I'll go with that?
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The standard pushrods will work just fine. Adjustables make it easier for those who don't want to pull the rocker covers and rockers, or those who want to play around with varying lifter preload, but they come with their own potential issues. One piece rods like the stock parts are more reliable and lighter.
Jerry
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ide go with the S&S quickies & standard lifters from S&S.one time having to get in the cam chest and the quickie p/rods are well worth it,we have lifters & p/rod kits for 329.99 shipped
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Thanks for the input guys :2vrolijk_21:
I'm starting today to pull it down it'll be a week for the parts to get over here. Hopefully I'll not find anything else to set me back.
I'll post on how it goes,.....
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ide go with the S&S quickies & standard lifters from S&S.one time having to get in the cam chest and the quickie p/rods are well worth it,we have lifters & p/rod kits for 329.99 shipped
To longlast in the United Kingdom that's a good deal :huepfenlol2: .
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To longlast in the United Kingdom that's a good deal :huepfenlol2: .
S&S has deals I found as I was online shopping in their different websites. They put deals on eBay through their websites.
Lifter at 111.89 and adjustable rods with covers at 144.69 shipping internationall at 24.50 US cost . Think this is a little bit more of a deal.
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have you replaced the inner cam bearing yet? If not, consider adding this to your S&S order. definitely a well know weak point in the early 110" motors
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I recommend the HD SE adj pushrods and 850-1 lifters. Replace lifters at each rear tire change.
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S&S has deals I found as I was online shopping in their different websites. They put deals on eBay through their websites.
Lifter at 111.89 and adjustable rods with covers at 144.69 shipping internationall at 24.50 US cost . Think this is a little bit more of a deal.
Don't forget a pair of lifter block gaskets :orange:
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Don't forget a pair of lifter block gaskets :orange:
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: did do :drink: cheers
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S&S has deals I found as I was online shopping in their different websites. They put deals on eBay through their websites.
Lifter at 111.89 and adjustable rods with covers at 144.69 shipping internationall at 24.50 US cost . Think this is a little bit more of a deal.
p/rods from me are the S&S quickies,no way your getting them from anyone for 144.00.if you look into im sure their just offering the standard S&S p/rods for 144.00,we can do the same on those
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p/rods from me are the S&S quickies,no way your getting them from anyone for 144.00.if you look into im sure their just offering the standard S&S p/rods for 144.00,we can do the same on those
My apologies,...It was 144.00 pounds not US $$ got mixed up between the two :nixweiss:
I ordered up the lifters from S&S should be here in a week hopefully.
S&S Cycle High Performance Lifters Tappets Twin Cam Harley 1999-17 and 00-17 XL
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222525984423
I'm not getting the P/rods just now as I'm striping the top off to check it over. If all is good in the rockers I'll be putting the HD rods back in and may change over to the adjustables. When I do I'll contact you first for cost.
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Unbelievable!
I started breakdown the top covers to check for any sign of fault and pull the P/rods,......WELL,... I'm glad I did and not just go with cutting the stock ones and putting in the adjustables.
There was not one tight torqued bolt. One rocker box bolt had backed off or was not even pulled down.
The Breather Assembly I could wiggle about gasket broken.
Now I've got to remove the rocker box and check the cylinder and head bolts are torqued.
This is on the rear cylinder it must have been on the rear head gasket recall. Another HD workmanship.
I haven't got to the front one yet.
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Breather Assembly
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Cought in time rocker bolt
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Definitely pop in the rocker lockers (or equivalent) :antlers:
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I recommend the HD SE adj pushrods and 850-1 lifters. Replace lifters at each rear tire change.
replace lifters yearly??? (or every 12k miles?). I guess it doesn't hurt anything but this seems to be way overkill to me.
Sure you can do it. I'm just saying this is not the norm by far.
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Lifters are a bit like tires or brake pads on these big Twin Cam engines in the sense that there's no exact mileage to wear out and you don't want to wait to replace them after they have failed.
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My litters are probably OK. After finding all the bolts being loose/ no torque, sure things are going to start clacking about.
Changing then anyway!
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My litters are probably OK. After finding all the bolts being loose/ no torque, sure things are going to start clacking about.
Changing then anyway!
Just realized there is now a third "absolute truth."
Check is in the mail.
No, I don't mind the condom at all.
My lifters are probably ok.
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Just realized there is now a third "absolute truth."
Check is in the mail.
No, I don't mind the condom at all.
My lifters are probably ok.
;D ;D :D guess I walked into that one :P Don
But I was only repeating what she said :P
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Just realized there is now a third "absolute truth."
Check is in the mail.
No, I don't mind the condom at all.
My lifters are probably ok.
ROFLMFAO, especially the 2nd one. ;D
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Q. On install of the lifters.
Should the lifter oil feed of the lifters be facing inboard or outboard?
When I removed mine they where facing outboard, thought they should be inboard.
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MoCo says inward but it does not matter.
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MoCo says inward but it does not matter.
:2vrolijk_21:
I found out that they can go inward or outward.
Then it's suggested​ to take note witch way they come out and to install them the same way to maintain the same wear pattern.
I'm putting in new so don't have to worry about the second bit.
Here's a pic of the inside of the rocker box cover.
Bolts and rockers hitting the cover as to how loose it all got. About 1/2 hr run time from the time I first heard the knocking sound. The center is the bolt head hitting from the breather assembly. Good workmanship Harley
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Q. Ok what's the opinion on the the rocker box breather assembly?
There's a filter that fits into the assembly.
I found no filter in the rear assembly,..But there was in the front if you could call it a filter.
The filter had pretty much disintegrated,..crusty. it had broken down and was in little fine bits plugging up the tiny ( I assume) are the oil drains for the assembly.
The material of the filters is obviously no good for them to breakdown the way it has.
Any suggestions?
Leave the filters out?
Is there an alternative filter that holds up?
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its not a "filter",its more of a oil separator.it keeps the oil from coming out the breathers.get a cometic gasket kit,it will come with new ones.get some S&S lifters too
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its not a "filter",its more of a oil separator.it keeps the oil from coming out the breathers.get a cometic gasket kit,it will come with new ones.get some S&S lifters too
Got the HD breather kit, and S&S lifters coming in the mail, there still in transit.
I did some research on it and yes it is supposed to stop/ reduce the amount of oil that comes thru with the crankcase air pressure.
By the deterioration of the filter/ separator to the point of it being an unrecognisable crumbling mass in 18+ k it looks like it's something that needs replacing in a 10/12 k service.
I haven't seen anything about servicing the breather assembly.
What do you more experienced boys do about this unit?
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Purchase new parts from harley pt # 26500002 $7.50 for the soft parts or 17025-03a ~$15 for the whole breather assembly. Not sure if Cometic properly covers the latest revision breathers in their kits.
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New breather assembly kit came today still waiting on the S&S lifters.
Look at the oil strainer/filter and the Brown carp is what happens to it in18k.
It's in my bucket list to check on the 5,000 mile service
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I suggest purchasing the new revised harley breathers. They work better.
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I suggest purchasing the new revised harley breathers. They work better.
I did take your advice and order it from Harley, that's what they sent me. :nixweiss:
I didn't specifically ask for the new revised kit I assumed that's what they would have sent if it's been revised.
I'll be sure to get it next time when I do the service at 5k
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I suggest purchasing the new revised harley breathers. They work better.
so his post showed part number 17162-03, yours shows 17025-03A, and the fiche for my 2013 shows 26500002. which one is the best one to use?
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I suggest purchasing the new revised harley breathers. They work better.
I've heard this before. Can someone explain why the more recent stamped sheet metal breather assemblies work better than the earlier cast aluminum design? I assumed the design change was more of a cost savings than a performance improvement.
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so his post showed part number 17162-03, yours shows 17025-03A, and the fiche for my 2013 shows 26500002. which one is the best one to use?
26500002 doesn't include the bolts.
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so his post showed part number 17162-03, yours shows 17025-03A, and the fiche for my 2013 shows 26500002. which one is the best one to use?
The revised version 17025-03A
Mine is just gaskets oil strainer and diaphragm 17162-03.
If the oil strainer is degrading when I check it on the next 5k service I'll be putting in the revised version and see how that holds up.
I may just go as far as to do a 1k check. I don't want it to get to the point the other ones got to.
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Get the bolts too if converting.
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Get the bolts too if converting.
Noted!! :2vrolijk_21:
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I've done an inspection of the lifters l removed and they seem to have been traveling good. The bore hole walls are slightly polished the rollers and cam lobes look good,..No pitting, rollers look like they were running true on the cam.
I've been seeing there's a lot of talk about cam bearings with the 110s. I was wondering what it is as to why they fail? Inadequate cheap bearing for the application?
It seems everyone recommends to change/upgrade them.
What's the signs that the bearings are failing/failed?
I was wondering about this as l have it apart as to the point of accessing the cam now, would it be a good idea to do the cam bearings now then later or sooner?
It also seems that it's just the inner bearing that is said to replace, what about the outer ones would they not have to be replaced as well?
Are the Torrington B 148 bearing right for my 07 Ultra?
What's the deal with these Torrington bearings is it S&S that use them? Or bo I have that wrong?
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It is not a brand issue. There are light duty skip roller caged needle bearings and then there are the heavy duty equivalents that have 100% roller coverage, full compliment bearings. B168 is the Timken number for 07up tc.The added pressure from the valve train of the cvo we have described is adequate reason to change them proactively. The 2013up tc cvo has the Timkens stock I believe.
A lifter or cam bearing failure can and has ruined cases so these are not items to take lightly. At bare minimum when the metal starts floating in the system a motor needs an overhaul and the whole oil system needs to be cleaned including the oil tank to do a proper fix. Not pretty.
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If you have the cams out already, replace the inner cam bearings with the B168's.
Also, the cam bolts are a one use item.
25566-06 CAM DRIVE SPROCKET RETENTION KIT w/ 6294 & screws | PZ $5.59
An analgy would be using a new inner tube in a new tire on a heavy bike with spokes.
A new set of tires on your car, gets new valve stems.
If you don't have the cam bearing removal/replacement tools you can borrow mine.
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=100390.0
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If you have the cams out already, replace the inner cam bearings with the B168's.
Also, the cam bolts are a one use item.
25566-06 CAM DRIVE SPROCKET RETENTION KIT w/ 6294 & screws | PZ $5.59
An analgy would be using a new inner tube in a new tire on a heavy bike with spokes.
A new set of tires on your car, gets new valve stems.
If you don't have the cam bearing removal/replacement tools you can borrow mine.
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=100390.0
Thanks for the offer, but I'm in the UK I'll sort something out on this side of the pond. :2vrolijk_21:
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Thanks for all the help from you all :2vrolijk_21:
I've now ordered up the B168 cam bearings should arrive in the next few days, I'm still waiting for the S&S lifters from your side of the pond tracking says they are now with Global international.
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B168 Timken cam bearings came today. Pulled out the cams and all looks good. Still waiting for the lifters they should be here for Thursday,..But not holding my breath on that
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Lifters came today from S&S. Now to start the reassembly ;D
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B168 Timken cam bearings came today. Pulled out the cams and all looks good. Still waiting for the lifters they should be here for Thursday,..But not holding my breath on that
Aren't you glad you've got a garage now :pineapple: !
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Aren't you glad you've got a garage now :pineapple: !
Too right there Don, and it also has electricity in it ;D
Today it's pissing down rain, the lifters came three days earlier than expected, I'm well impressed :huepfenjump3:
I'm starting today to put it back together. I'll also be modifying the crankcase pressure tube's. When I was checking things over I found behind the intake butterfly there was black dirty oil coating the inner walls of the intake.
Thought l'll make a little tube canister filter/breather and connect the rocker box breathers to it then l can service it to keep check when it's time to change the upper rocker box breathers by how oily it's getting. Then I'll fit it to the detection plate just aft of the oil cooler. Just a thought to see if that will work.
Now that I have a garage ;D
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It's great you're having fun with with the bike and having fun with a place to do it. I'll keep looking forward to progress as you button things up. Has the garage gotten any interior decoration yet? ;D
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It's great you're having fun with with the bike and having fun with a place to do it. I'll keep looking forward to progress as you button things up. Has the garage gotten any interior decoration yet? ;D
:D :D a couple of things but not how I want it yet Don, but It's slowly coming together
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A sunken table lift was prob the best addition i did to my garage. Easy to work on and keep clean
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A sunken table lift was prob the best addition i did to my garage. Easy to work on and keep clean
That's something I'd go for! It's getting it in past the Wifie that's the hard part :P
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Got the new cam bearings in today. The bottom end cams are in and all buttoned up now for the top end tomorrow.
https://goo.gl/photos/jtdpsoZu5TJqPGQF6
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Got the new cam bearings in today. The bottom end cams are in and all buttoned up now for the top end tomorrow.
https://goo.gl/photos/jtdpsoZu5TJqPGQF6
Did you recenter your oil pump? I did this on mine and picked up +4psi pressure across the band. I was actually a bit shocked. I don't know for sure it was the centering but the Harley manual said to do it this way.
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Did you recenter your oil pump? I did this on mine and picked up +4psi pressure across the band. I was actually a bit shocked. I don't know for sure it was the centering but the Harley manual said to do it this way.
News to me :nixweiss:. Not sure what you mean "recenter"
I didn't look for anything on the oil pump, didn't think I'd ​needed to. All I did was pull the cam body to access the bearings. I put it back in the same figuration it came out (didn't move anything)
I did see a bit about being sure that the large and small flats on the oil pump meet up with the large and small flats on the crankshaft pinion, but didn't really pay it much mind and didn't read any further as I hadn't touched the pump or moved it or the motor. It all slid in as smooth as it slid out.
Does this recentering apply only when there has been oil pump dismantle?
It'll be ready for start up tomorrow but if I missed something about the oil pump that I should have done I'll pull it back out.
They'll be some eggs boiling if I missed something.
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Ssls6 threw me for a bit of a loop.
I felt pretty good that I put it back together alright
Finished up the tail end of things this morning. Crancked the motor over a few times with out the plugs in to get some oil pumped around.
I put the plugs back turned the ignition hit the starter. Wham! It fired up straight away, sounds great!
A big " THANKS" TO YOU ALL FOR THE HELP :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
Pete
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You did good :2vrolijk_21:
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You did good :2vrolijk_21:
Cheers :drink:
Been out for a 20mile test ride stopped three times to check it over. Opened her up ( not hard) to 90mph run like a top. ( And no oil leakage :nixweiss:) felt like it even had more get up n go.
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Well it's been a week and 300 mi and I'm one happy roller the motor sounds better than ever.
With the start of the primary noise, being the inner primary case bearing and clutch hub spline failure makeing it heavy dropping into gear and giving up on getting into "N" had to shut down the motor.
Since the repair of the primary can't hear anything from it. Dropping into gear is a small clunk and no forward jerking of the bike. "N" is a breeze.
Then the repairs and upgrades in this thread the motor sounds great. As I'm riding at any speed the motor overall is quite only the popping of each cylinder firing out of the exhaust and a sweet humming from the motor.
In both cases I would have had a hell of a time if not for you guys that shared your knowledge and skills with advice and guidance with me.
Thanks to you all. Here's to you :drink: :drink:,....... I'd have a drink for all of you but I'd be legless ;D
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Well it's been a week and 300 mi and I'm one happy roller the motor sounds better than ever.
I'd be just gobsmacked to have all that buttoned up and running quiet and well too. Congrats to you and the bike and the garage it all got done in :drink: .
Well Done Well Done!!!
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For me personally, it's always a very good feeling to diagnose and fix my own bike. By fix I mean professional, high quality results.
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I agree. It's a weird way to bond with a bike but that is exactly how I feel....that I have bonded.