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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: cahdbiker on November 05, 2017, 05:25:21 AM
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Greetings, I just wanted to mention what occurred on a trip from Simi Valley, Ca. to Bakersfield and then home. Weather was perfect going. Hit a little traffic jam as usual just past Castaic Junction where the Grape Vine (Interstate 5) begins to climb. Truckers were in all lanes which is B.S. so I was stuck in traffic as I do not feel comfortable splitting lanes between them. After the jam going north was over It was text book ride great temp. Bike running great and quiet since I put in Rocker Lockers. Coming home was a different story. A trucker had turned over and his loan of cardboard caught fire at 3:00 AM. so all five lanes of freeway were backed up clear over the grapevine for at least 50 miles. Split some lanes but mostly stop and go. 3/4 of the way up my clutch disappeared and my motor died. So instead of gathering my thoughts I called the AAA. After about 45 minutes when the engine had cooled my clutch came back and is still working fine. In the mean time I was stranded in the center of the freeway for 4 hours. So my theme here is don't panic and call the two truck until you investigate your situation. Always have three or four bottles of water. Happily traffic started moving about 15 minutes before tow truck arrived. Had bike checked out at HD dealer and all is good. Ride safe. CAHDBIKER (Moderator please move this post to Drive Train)
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Glad you figured it out. Friend spend a day in a dealer shop when that happened to him a couple years ago. They didn't have a clue and replaced some parts (don't know which) in his clutch assembly when nothing mechanical was wrong. You should change the fluid because once it has overheated like that because it has been degraded. It happened to me a couple years ago also. I'm a definite believer in changing the clutch and both brake fluids every two years as the moco recommends. :2vrolijk_21:
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Change the fluid (look for the highest boiling point fluid you can find in DOT 4, different brands vary and the DOT specs are just the minimums), then look at the clutch fluid line and consider adding shielding or insulation any place where it runs in close proximity to the exhaust system or other hot parts. Scott (sadunbar) posted a photo some time back showing how he used insulating wrap (commonly used in racing on fuel lines for instance) to reduce the problem on his bike. The other area of concern is at the actuator itself, since it sits very close to most exhaust pipes. Unfortunately the heat shields on exhaust systems don't cover that side of the pipe, but I imagine an enterprising soul could find a way to add shielding and still not ruin the aesthetics.
If this sort of thing occurred on automotive hydraulic clutches or brakes there would have been recalls up the wazoo. Dear NHTSA, why isn't this a safety defect on a Harley?
Jerry
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Change the fluid (look for the highest boiling point fluid you can find in DOT 4, different brands vary and the DOT specs are just the minimums), then look at the clutch fluid line and consider adding shielding or insulation any place where it runs in close proximity to the exhaust system or other hot parts. Scott (sadunbar) posted a photo some time back showing how he used insulating wrap (commonly used in racing on fuel lines for instance) to reduce the problem on his bike. The other area of concern is at the actuator itself, since it sits very close to most exhaust pipes. Unfortunately the heat shields on exhaust systems don't cover that side of the pipe, but I imagine an enterprising soul could find a way to add shielding and still not ruin the aesthetics.
If this sort of thing occurred on automotive hydraulic clutches or brakes there would have been recalls up the wazoo. Dear NHTSA, why isn't this a safety defect on a Harley?
Jerry
Because there are too few of us to matter to them and they don't give a chit in my opinion. I think they are more concerned about 'sticking it to' the big guys than actual safety and based on the numbers of bikes vs cars involved in a recall the big buck fines just aren't there.
But it sure a hell is a safety issue no doubt about it.
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Red Line RL-600. Has a 600 degree boiling point. I switched over in the beginning of the riding season and still have no problems.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Had the same problem, hot summer day in city traffic all of a sudden "crap no clutch" :(
Thanks to the help from this forum,.... I found the the clutch line was running right next to the motor crank casing.
I put some heat wrap around the line,.... problem solved.
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The dot 5.1 looks like a good option for the dot 4.0. It has a higher boiling point. http://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/resources/faq/difference-between-dot4-and-dot51-brake-fluid/
The Red Line RL-600 as previously mentioned by DCFIREMANN still looks superior though. I am going to use this on my next flush. :apple:
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Brake fluid (and clutch fluid) degrade over time.. As soon as you pour the fluid into the master fluid, it has absorbed some amount of moisture. Prior to each trip to the Rocky Mountains, I completely flush and replace clutch and brake fluid. Elevation and heat are enemies of brake fluid...
Here is the photo GRC mentioned showing the clutch line insulation I have installed on my bike...
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Brake fluid (and clutch fluid) degrade over time.. As soon as you pour the fluid into the master fluid, it has absorbed some amount of moisture. Prior to each trip to the Rocky Mountains, I completely flush and replace clutch and brake fluid. Elevation and heat are enemies of brake fluid...
Here is the photo GRC mentioned showing the clutch line insulation I have installed on my bike...
I have a question on the clutch line insulation. Wouldn't it be better to just install insulation at the heat source and not the entire line? I would think if it does boil or get warm and you lose clutch and/or brake function, the insulation could cause more issues with cooling in keeping the heat in than if you just isolated the small area of the heat running close to the line and the rest of the line would be exposed for cooling. Just wondering out loud since this could happen to mine as well at some point.
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I have a question on the clutch line insulation. Wouldn't it be better to just install insulation at the heat source and not the entire line? I would think if it does boil or get warm and you lose clutch and/or brake function, the insulation could cause more issues with cooling in keeping the heat in than if you just isolated the small area of the heat running close to the line and the rest of the line would be exposed for cooling. Just wondering out loud since this could happen to mine as well at some point.
Your thinking is right on that Howard, when it happened to me I just put the wrap on the lower part of the line up as far as where it is tied to the lower part of the "A" frame. I left the remainder unwrapped for cooling.
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That insulation isn't an eyesore at all.
Why again did HD do away with those cheap, reliable cables?
Are all of these aftermarket fluids compatible with both the original fluid and internal seals?
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That insulation isn't an eyesore at all.
Why again did HD do away with those cheap, reliable cables?
Are all of these aftermarket fluids compatible with both the original fluid and internal seals?
Only Dot 5 is "NOT" compatible with Dot 3, 4, and 5.1 you can mix 3, 4, and 5.1 Harley uses Dot 4, Dot 5.1 has the highest heat range of Dot fluid. See the link in this thread.
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Good to know. That's why I Love this forum.....Where do you find this 3/4 wrap for the Hyd lines? I Plan to have both lines flushed by spring.
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Same thing happened to the '09 SERG, first in Glacier NP 8/13 around 6k ft elevation, and 8/17 in the Smoky Mtns at 4-5k elevation, ambient temps in mid to high 80s both times... Involved a little stop n go mixed with some slow traffic in the top of 1st, 2nd & 3rd, less than 45-55 mph... This last time I was able to pass traffic and cool the bike down while riding... Has happened 2x in 61k so far...
Yea, the first time was a little disconcerting until the Bike cooled and the Clutch came right back :nervous:
'Never happened on the '05 SEEG in the same places / conditions :nixweiss
From what I'm reading here, it seems like the Redline Fluid is the way to go??
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I have had the same thing happen while pulling a light trailer with a Ford F250 in Summer in bad stop and go traffic. It is not something that is limited to only HD's, and I have not heard of any recall aimed at Ford for the problem. I had to switch to using the emergency brake while holding on the emergency brake release handle. A bit of a pain to say the least. The brakes actually cooled down and started working again before I finally made it home. I flushed out the fluid sometime afterwards. It did happen again a few years later under the same type of circumstances.
No emergency brake option on a motorcycle! I do every possible thing I can to stay out of stop and go traffic on the bikes. It still happens though, and I have found myself stuck on the 405 after leaving Venice Beach on a weekday at rush hour! A complete parking lot with something like 7 lanes across. Pretty much the only time I applied the splitting lanes approach. Not a fun time when many drivers purposely "squeeze" in to give you a hard time. My bike was blazing hot though (not my current wet head) and I was many hours away from my destination.
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Good to know. That's why I Love this forum.....Where do you find this 3/4 wrap for the Hyd lines? I Plan to have both lines flushed by spring.
Best place to start looking for it is in a high performance motor store. Where you get all the mussel car motor goodies. It's where I got it.
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I have a question on the clutch line insulation. Wouldn't it be better to just install insulation at the heat source and not the entire line? I would think if it does boil or get warm and you lose clutch and/or brake function, the insulation could cause more issues with cooling in keeping the heat in than if you just isolated the small area of the heat running close to the line and the rest of the line would be exposed for cooling. Just wondering out loud since this could happen to mine as well at some point.
If you look closer at the photo, you will see insulation on the inside of the header also. Shielding the "motor side" of the header and allowing heat to escape opposite the motor side. The entire clutch line runs along the inside of the header, which is where the insulation is installed.
After many trips in the altitude of the Rocky Mountains, real world experience convinces me this solution was effective in my case.
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Good to know. That's why I Love this forum.....Where do you find this 3/4 wrap for the Hyd lines? I Plan to have both lines flushed by spring.
I think I bought this insulation on Ebay. But Jegs, Summit, Lefthander... Any high performance automotive retailer sells this type insulation.
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While I think the insulation is a good idea. I'm going to go without, unless I have the problem again. The Redline RL-600 has been great. Along with upgrading to the Barnett Scorpion Clutch. When I start to release the clutch lever, the clutch grabs. I have almost 10K on the setup with no problems so far. To bad I paid 42K for a bike that I am constantly doing upgrades to. But hell it keeps me out of trouble.
Today only RACERPARTSWHOLESALER.COM has Redline on sale. I just ordered 5 power paks and 3 bottles of RL-600 last week.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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It's been awhile since I've had reason to need/want it. Does anyone know if the Gulf RF1000 brake fluid ever became available here in the states? It was a really good fluid also, high boiling point, but at least used to cost significantly less than than the "track day" or other high end brake fluids.
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It's been awhile since I've had reason to need/want it. Does anyone know if the Gulf RF1000 brake fluid ever became available here in the states? It was a really good fluid also, high boiling point, but at least used to cost significantly less than than the "track day" or other high end brake fluids.
I have not seen that in YEARS!!!! I'm happy with the Red Line. Well at least so far I am.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Same thing happened to me in CO last year, changed my fluid and was great this year. Brake fluid should be changed about every other year.