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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: drgmis16 on January 21, 2018, 10:26:27 PM
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Have been thinking about replacing the stock oil pan with the Screaming Eagle oil pan. The area gets pretty hot and would think that the extra oil and construction would help in keeping the temperature down. Would not work if stuck in traffic but have turned off the motorcycle if not moved in a period of time and also pulled off to the side also. The engine is a SE 110 cu in just to state the obvious. The parts person at the dealership stated the new Milwaukee engine has a larger oil pan so this is something to consider also. Anyone swapped the oil pan and what have been the results? :confused5:
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Have been thinking about replacing the stock oil pan with the Screaming Eagle oil pan. The area gets pretty hot and would think that the extra oil and construction would help in keeping the temperature down. Would not work if stuck in traffic but have turned off the motorcycle if not moved in a period of time and also pulled off to the side also. The engine is a SE 110 cu in just to state the obvious. The parts person at the dealership stated the new Milwaukee engine has a larger oil pan so this is something to consider also. Anyone swapped the oil pan and what have been the results? :confused5:
The various laws of thermodynamics don't work that way. Increasing the volume might make it take just a little longer for that oil volume to reach whatever is the max temp your system is forcing it to. Increasing the volume doesn't lower that system produced temp though.
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^^^ this
It will take longer to normlize, but in the end the oil will be the same temp as before.
If temps are a concern look in to other forms of supplemental cooling.
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Only thing those pans do is transfer money from your pocket to the seller. If you want actual cooling when in stop-n-go, put a fan on the oil cooler. Many available, including Big Sky Fans, which are a great value at ~ $70 for complete kit.
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The only temp related slight benefit to that oil pan has to do with the amount of time the oil stays in the pan cooling before it gets pumped back into the engine. The pan is a heat sink, and between the improved baffling and larger surface area exposed to the atmosphere there should be a little more heat transfer from the oil compared to stock. If you were to do a proper test of the real difference, I'd expect it to be less than the implied benefit in the sales pitch. As others have noted, it would be much better to spend the money on a fan assisted oil cooler and/or cylinder head cooling fans. The least obtrusive and most effective design I've seen for head cooling fans is the Wards unit (search for threads on "wards cooling fans". As for the oil cooler, Jagg makes a nice fan assisted ten row cooler. If you get stuck in slow or stopped traffic often, both of those items will make a huge difference compared to that oil pan.
JMHO - Jerry
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I believe Wards may be out of business, but Love Jugs makes a smaller version called the mighty mite that looks "just like" the Wards fans. I love them so far even if it's just the piece of mind I feel.
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I have a fan on my front low mount oil cooler and another one behind the horn blowing in between the cylinders. Changed out the later with Wards fans and they do work better according to my oil temp gauge.
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In the right application they have their place. The advantage is not a cooler running engine, and there is more to it than oil life. The warm up time can be addressed with an oil cooler thermostat.
For most. I agree. Waste of money.
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Waste of money - not sure what you would gain to make the expense worthwhile.
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Waste of money - not sure what you would gain to make the expense worthwhile.
You get to walk around thinking "mine is bigger."
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I may be optimistic but the idea of +1.5 quarts of motor oil would likely benefit high oil temperatures based on the design, especially for someone towing a trailer. On performance auto engines and transmissions it helps. I certainly wouldn't pay $600 + labor for it though.
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The only benefit I think a bigger oil pan would be is to help deaerate the oil in other words help get the air out of the oil before it gets back to the pick up tube
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You get to walk around thinking "mine is bigger."
Yeah, plus it's a Screamin' Eagle oil pan. As compared to all the non Screamin' Eagle oil pans.
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Yeah, plus it's a Screamin' Eagle oil pan. As compared to all the non Screamin' Eagle oil pans.
Correct. It's not just big it's like moderator big when it's Screamin Eagle.
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Correct. It's not just big it's like moderator big when it's Screamin Eagle.
Oil moderation is a slippery one.
Also, something now is reminding me of the old Vroom motors on bicycles.
(http://superradnow.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/vrroom1.jpg)
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The various laws of thermodynamics don't work that way. Increasing the volume might make it take just a little longer for that oil volume to reach whatever is the max temp your system is forcing it to. Increasing the volume doesn't lower that system produced temp though.
But...but...but, it says "Screamin' Eagle" on it. Doesn't that make it "cooler"...... :huepfenlol2: ;D :nervous: :2vrolijk_21:
To the OP....I'm not poking fun atcha drg....just having a bit-o-fun in general...
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The only benefit I think a bigger oil pan would be is to help deaerate the oil in other words help get the air out of the oil before it gets back to the pick up tube
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That and the extra air volume helps with fluctuation of crank case pressure.
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I have the SE pan on my 120R.
It holds the advertised additional oil, so oil changes go from 3.5 to 5 quarts.
It takes longer for the oil to get to temp, however once there, it works just like a normal oil pan.
From a purist standpoint it changes very little, however can say, oil temp is very stable.
I can ride all day and oil temp rarely moves more than 5 degrees plus or minus.
I've seen 20 plus degree fluctuations with a normal pan and less oil
So, I somewhat agree it's mostly just a cost, but it does have a few benefits, stable oil temp being one.
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I have this Baker unit. Not sure if other oil pans work this way, but the routing of the oil seems to make sense as far as cooling. I just don't have a way to monitor oil temps unless I get a digital dip stick.
https://bakerdrivetrain.com/products/1-5-oil-pan
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If you don`t fancy the "love jugs" cooling fans to cool the engine at source, then take a look at the "oil Bud" oil cooler, gets very good reviews.
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Oil bud is top notch.
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Baker says their pan "was designed to lower engine oil temperature by using a larger volume of oil to carry heat away from the hot engine.
The problem with this statement? The amount (volume) of oil going through a component doesn't change just because there's a larger reservoir of oil.
Yes, the size and design of the Baker pan might help cool the oil more than a regular pan, but there's a reason our air-cooled bikes have an oil cooler, and it's out where it gets hit by the outside air. The OP noted the pan won't help much in stop n go, and the regular oil cooler doesn't do much either--unless it has a fan on it to move air through the cooler. And the fan solutions are much cheaper.
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If you're running a 120R or 124", or bigger, obviously 5 qts. is better than 3.5. Other than that, it would appear one has more money than sense. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
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it would appear one has more money than sense. There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD
More money than sense? This is the type of passive aggressive comment that make me have to ask. This is a CVO forum, right? Insert something about stones and glass houses, here.
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More money than sense? This is the type of passive aggressive comment that make me have to ask. This is a CVO forum, right? Insert something about stones and glass houses, here.
From memories accrued from a most liberal psychology professor, of which I might add I had the most unpleasant experience to make acquaintance and tolerate, many decades past, I would conclude you currently define the passive aggressive tendency I possess, as a platitude. Of which sir, you are correct. I am a smart-ass of the first order. This defect, or attribute in many circumstances, I possess has relieved me of countless conversations that may have otherwise ended unresolved. Some even walk off saying, "you can't talk to him!" LMAO! There endeth the lesson.
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From memories accrued from a most liberal psychology professor, of which I might add I had the most unpleasant experience to make acquaintance and tolerate, many decades past, I would conclude you currently define the passive aggressive tendency I possess, as a platitude. Of which sir, you are correct. I am a smart-ass of the first order. This defect, or attribute in many circumstances, I possess has relieved me of countless conversations that may have otherwise ended unresolved. Some even walk off saying, "you can't talk to him!" LMAO! There endeth the lesson.
Hubbard to English translation: F' off. :huepfenlol2:
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I tip my hat to you Sir Donald, as you possess the most sacred dialect of our English language. Some of which I had the unmitigated pleasure to enthrall in the Great State of Arkansas! To which none other here will ever have the slightest thought of mind or dream to acknowledge. But I did. And it will ever remain in my living brain. You did what trained and hardened experienced men that I paid good money too, did not produce or prevail. But you did, and in short order, too! You're the man, 2Lane! My dear Ol' departed Pappy told me if I was ever in a position to commend someone for a job well done, I should always do that. You done good, 2Lane, and I will never forget it. And it's nobody's business what it was, but it sure got me out of a bind. Again, Thank you, Brother! Hope to see you somewhere on the Big Road! Later--HUBBARD
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I tip my hat to you Sir Donald, as you possess the most sacred dialect of our English language. Some of which I had the unmitigated pleasure to enthrall in the Great State of Arkansas! To which none other here will ever have the slightest thought of mind or dream to acknowledge. But I did. And it will ever remain in my living brain. You did what trained and hardened experienced men that I paid good money too, did not produce or prevail. But you did, and in short order, too! You're the man, 2Lane! My dear Ol' departed Pappy told me if I was ever in a position to commend someone for a job well done, I should always do that. You done good, 2Lane, and I will never forget it. And it's nobody's business what it was, but it sure got me out of a bind. Again, Thank you, Brother! Hope to see you somewhere on the Big Road! Later--HUBBARD
Was glad to help Carl. And I'd love to find some mutual road again sometime too. It's been a long time. I've got the WV gathering on my calendar this year. Actually getting the time to get there is not close to a sure thing but I want to.
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The only benefit I think a bigger oil pan would be is to help deaerate the oil in other words help get the air out of the oil before it gets back to the pick up tube
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
ALSO
I have seen blackstone tests on a bike with and without the +1.5 pan and the extra oil lasts much longer and breaks down slower due to the extra volume apparently...
FWIW, Just a thought.
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:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
ALSO
I have seen blackstone tests on a bike with and without the +1.5 pan and the extra oil lasts much longer and breaks down slower due to the extra volume apparently...
FWIW, Just a thought.
So you could in theory extend your oil change mileage intervals by a small amount. How much exactly, and how many years of oil changes will it take for the small difference in change intervals to pay for the cost of that oil pan? Don't forget, you also have to factor in the cost of an extra 1.5 quarts of oil for each change. If you are like the vast majority you will still just change the oil at the specified 5000 mile intervals, so there will be no savings but there will still be the extra cost for the extra 1.5 quarts at each change.
Jerry
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JERRY I CONCUR TWICE SIR
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So you could in theory extend your oil change mileage intervals by a small amount. How much exactly, and how many years of oil changes will it take for the small difference in change intervals to pay for the cost of that oil pan? Don't forget, you also have to factor in the cost of an extra 1.5 quarts of oil for each change. If you are like the vast majority you will still just change the oil at the specified 5000 mile intervals, so there will be no savings but there will still be the extra cost for the extra 1.5 quarts at each change.
Jerry
With three bikes sharing the mileage all the time I (almost) never get 5000 miles between oil changes anymore. It's the annual maintenance. At once a year it'd take 3,264 years to break even on an oil pan.
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When my engine crapped out and the pan was getting replaced as part of the fix under extended warranty ($50 deduct) I had them install the SE pan and paid the difference in cost for stock pan. Labor was already included... Figured it was worth it to gain what ever minimal benefit, but also did it because the SE pan allows you to remove screws and take off the baffles and clean it rather than replace it. Other than that I guess I have more money than sense ;D
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I installed a Baker 1.5+ oil pan this year, cause I could. Almost too purty to use as intended.
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When my engine crapped out and the pan was getting replaced as part of the fix under extended warranty ($50 deduct) I had them install the SE pan and paid the difference in cost for stock pan. Labor was already included... Figured it was worth it to gain what ever minimal benefit, but also did it because the SE pan allows you to remove screws and take off the baffles and clean it rather than replace it. Other than that I guess I have more money than sense ;D
I'd have done this exactly for the same rationale.