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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: hd2003-se2005 on February 10, 2005, 09:22:27 PM
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Was looking at the Race Fueler in the 05 Screaming Eagle catalog.
This appears to be similar to the Techllusions Fuel Controller
or the Dobeck fuel controller.
Has anyone use the Race fueler and did it work? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Has anyone installed the Techllusion or Dobeck fuel controller? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Chip
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Was looking at the Race Fueler in the 05 Screaming Eagle catalog.
This appears to be similar to the Techllusions Fuel Controller
or the Dobeck fuel controller.
Has anyone use the Race fueler and did it work? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Has anyone installed the Techllusion or Dobeck fuel controller? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Chip
My conversations with folks intimately familiar with the three of them are to not waste your time and or money with them and to go straight to the Race tuner. My direct experience has been with the race tuner and the power commander. Your satisfaction (and your bike's) will be much more enhanced with either of these last two products. Otherwise, Chip, they might be making "Grumpy Old Men III" in which case I would buy any of the first three products....they would help you with character building to take a leading role.
Mike
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Hey? Do you think the race tuner is worth the money over the power comander, and do you think the average joe can make it work enough to have sufficient gains over the power comander? My buddy and I have been fooling with bikes for many years but the fuel injection / electronics is new to us as far as changing.
bob aka texastal [smiley=beerchug.gif]
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Hey? Do you think the race tuner is worth the money over the power comander, and do you think the average joe can make it work enough to have sufficient gains over the power comander? My buddy and I have been fooling with bikes for many years but the fuel injection / electronics is new to us as far as changing.
bob aka texastal [smiley=beerchug.gif]
Bob,
What you raise here is a great question.
Yes the race tuner is worth the extra money over the Power Commander.
I do not think that the "average joe" would have the skills and acces to a dyno to make significant gains with either one. The only to measure significant gains is on a dyno. Usually, significant gains are made in small incremental steps and the total of those gains is then realized as significant. If you have a laptop computer or a PC in your garage, or your significant other allows you to bring the bike into the living room along with the computer, you will be able to set up the groundwork of getting your bike tuned. Without the dyno, you are out of luck. However, if you have access to a dyno you can make a very significant difference with either product. For purposes of this converstion, I must include the negative aspects. If you decide to change everything that you are allowed to change on your bike with the race tuner or the power commander and you do not have a dyno nor the instrumentation to record all of these changes, you stand a good risk of turning your motor into a possible donation for the artificial reef program.
Mike
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I'm not sure how many people who say the race tuner is complicated have actually tried to program it. I'll bet not many. I have not used the power commander so I can't comment on that but this is MY experience with the race tuner. I consider myself at best to have average computer skills and maybe average tuning skills. I had no problem understanding the manual after I printed it out. It cleary explains how to load the pre set programs and how to fine tune them. I do think you need to have a laptop to get your moneys worth out of the RT. I had a terrible back fire on deceleration on my bike and completely tuned it out on my second try. If you put the RT in data collection mode and put your laptop in your tour pack you can record up to half hour of data.(make sure your laptop is set to stay running after you close it..damn)
after you can view the data and zoom in and at any time stop it and tell throttle position, RPM's,load, Air to fuel mixture,and several other things. You can also print out a dyno gragh. The one thing I don't have a good understanding of is what the spark advance/retard would do so I didn't adjust that. when I finnally had my bike dyno tuned they adjusted that. only gave me a couple more hp and a little better gas mileage. I think if i would have tried I could have gotten it. The race tuner also has many other features such as checking and resetting trouble codes and fail safe measures. You cannot go leaner than 14.5 on air to fuel mixture and if you have a problem loading a program it will either revert back to the original program or if something unknown would happen it will not let you start your bike until you have a program downloaded. You can't screw up and only load half a program. The manual is 123 pages but theres lots of pictures. again this is only my experience with it. When I called the rep. at HD to ask a question about resetting DTC's he first told me you could not do it. I told him wich page it was on in the manual and after some checking he said he never knew you could do that. (and he told me he was the RT resource at harley). He also told me that most people are either using it to download one of the pre set calibrations which you can buy for $160 or just using it to add a little extra gas in which case the race fueler would be just as good and cheaper. If anyone would like I would be happy to send you the manual so you can look at it yourself, It's in acrobat reader format so you would need that to open it.
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Yes the race tuner is worth the extra money over the Power Commander.
Could you exlain why the race tuner is worth the extra $ over the PC. It was my understanding that they both did about the same thing with the only difference being the PC would allow you to raise the rev limiter and about the 1st of March you will be able to download an upgrade into exisitng PC's that will allow the rev limit to be increased. So that pretty much levels the playing field [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Could you exlain why the race tuner is worth the extra $ over the PC. It was my understanding that they both did about the same thing with the only difference being the PC would allow you to raise the rev limiter and about the 1st of March you will be able to download an upgrade into exisitng PC's that will allow the rev limit to be increased. So that pretty much levels the playing field [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Other than more accurate tuning, I would ask you to try reading the posts in another forum addressing this. HERE IS THE LINK.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-109
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All,
Sorry I am a bit late just found this post and thought i would toss more fuel on the fire.
If you buy the race tuner its 459 plus tax but you can also mail order it for 20 percent off making it about 360 bucks plus tax. The power command is roughly 359 dollars and I am sure you can find it for less too.
That being said here is what you have to consider. Most tuners do not tune the harley race tuner you need to find a good harley guy and stick with him.
The harley race tuner allows you to adjust the fuel and air for every 100 rpm the PC does it in 500 rpm intervals.
The harley RT today does do the rev limiter and is only an upload to your existing ECM. Basically if your ecm goes bad your screwed no matter what is inline.
But if the PCIII goes bad you still have your computer just not setup to run your mods and could way to lean to get you anywhere except in debt.
The power commander goes on in addition to your ECM and what it does is lie to your computer to get the readings it wants.
For my money it is worth having the Harley Race Tuner even though I own one of both as I have found a good tuner for both the harley RT and he does a great job at a reasonable price. And i know another 2 great tuners that only do the PCIII which I had to use on my 124" motor that used to be in my ultra hence why i now have both units.
Why have an extra piece of hardware inline if it could go bad isnt as adjustable and lies to the ECM to get the results you want. Are they bad results no they arent. This is just my logical way of thinking about this.
Hopefully here in a week both SEEG's 04 / 05 will be tuned one with harley and one with PC and we shall see how they run.
Hope this helps and not confuses the issues,
-Unbalanced
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Just finished looking back through old theads and didn't find what I thought I'd read some time past. Not sure what made me think of it here but didn't someone write awhile back about a failed Race Fueler that, when it failed, did so in a wide open position? In other words when the unit failed it could (and did) fail in such a way that it just poured fuel in the engine.
Could be my memory is faulty. But if that's true and it can fail without failing safe that's a good enough reason for me not to have one.
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There is a full article from American Iron on the Revtech DFO posted at:
www.harleyhog.co.uk/dfo.htm
My opinion...............I always try to adhere to the KISS rule. Especially when screwing with the EFI map, I feel it is best to keep it simple and that is exactly what the DFO does. No need for a laptop, downloads, cables. Just plug and adjust.....just like a carb. The Race Tuner has far too many options for the everyday layman with adjustments for fuel, spark, etc. and can possible lead to very bad things. My vote....DFO.
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Was looking at the Race Fueler in the 05 Screaming Eagle catalog.
This appears to be similar to the Techllusions Fuel Controller
or the Dobeck fuel controller.
Has anyone use the Race fueler and did it work?
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If you want to truely dial your scooter in, then the race tuner (RT) is the answer. The price difference is marginal at best and the RT offers alot more flexibility than PC. Somebody said keep it simple (KISS) well the RT has 2 modes Simple and Advanced. The data logging abiltiy mentioned is also a really nice feature for those who want to take the time and tune their own scooters. [smiley=laugh.gif]
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Dave
I left u a private message
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The fact that the RT has a dual mode illustrates my point exactly. Many owners out there just have too many options with the RT. Trust me, if there are modes that can do harm to the engine, someone will be fiddling with those modes and melting aluminum.
That's the great thing about the DFO. For someone with only minor modifications to the exhaust and airbox, no Dyno in the basement and an hour worth of time, you can tune the thing within 95% of what the RT can do. And for all the ham fists out there, it will only ADD fuel. This is a very good thing for alot of our fellow "shade tree mechanics" that have no business fiddling with the EFI map.
For those with major mods and time/money to spend for dyno time....go for the RT.
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I like the Race Tuner but as was said ya gotta get it on a dyno for optimum gains. My tuner spent 5-6 hours...with stage 1 and pro pipe I got a big improvement. Its all personal preference but the great thing here is you can take advantage of other members experiences and save some headaches and money.
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Here's my experience with the SE Fueler... About 300 miles after I installed it, it took a crap and flooded out my bike.
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Hey Starvin,
What is a DTC you refer to ?
I'm not sure how many people who say the race tuner is complicated have actually tried to program it. I'll bet not many. I have not used the power commander so I can't comment on that but this is MY experience with the race tuner. I consider myself at best to have average computer skills and maybe average tuning skills. I had no problem understanding the manual after I printed it out. It cleary explains how to load the pre set programs and how to fine tune them. I do think you need to have a laptop to get your moneys worth out of the RT. I had a terrible back fire on deceleration on my bike and completely tuned it out on my second try. If you put the RT in data collection mode and put your laptop in your tour pack you can record up to half hour of data.(make sure your laptop is set to stay running after you close it..damn)
after you can view the data and zoom in and at any time stop it and tell throttle position, RPM's,load, Air to fuel mixture,and several other things. You can also print out a dyno gragh. The one thing I don't have a good understanding of is what the spark advance/retard would do so I didn't adjust that. when I finnally had my bike dyno tuned they adjusted that. only gave me a couple more hp and a little better gas mileage. I think if i would have tried I could have gotten it. The race tuner also has many other features such as checking and resetting trouble codes and fail safe measures. You cannot go leaner than 14.5 on air to fuel mixture and if you have a problem loading a program it will either revert back to the original program or if something unknown would happen it will not let you start your bike until you have a program downloaded. You can't screw up and only load half a program. The manual is 123 pages but theres lots of pictures. again this is only my experience with it. When I called the rep. at HD to ask a question about resetting DTC's he first told me you could not do it. I told him wich page it was on in the manual and after some checking he said he never knew you could do that. (and he told me he was the RT resource at harley). He also told me that most people are either using it to download one of the pre set calibrations which you can buy for $160 or just using it to add a little extra gas in which case the race fueler would be just as good and cheaper. If anyone would like I would be happy to send you the manual so you can look at it yourself, It's in acrobat reader format so you would need that to open it.
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DTC=Diagnostic Trouble Code