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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: nhFLSTFSE on May 31, 2005, 07:11:22 PM
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Would someone explain just what we do get at this service interval?
I do not really see its worth. Of course its a precaution. The darn thing runs fine now. After this I would like to service myself
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lets see ! - get a HD manual for your particular bike - get all the items to perform the service including cable lube- look in the manual for all items on a 1k service and perform all of them - see if it ain;t worth on average $290
other wise the other option - if not performed - kiss your engine goodbye cause all the breakin oil;s are in it and need to be replaced
re-torque axles so your wheels don;t fall off - re-set drive belt tightness - total savings so far is around lets say $9000 - trans lube also has break in oil in it an needs to be replaced with new - or trash that new trans with metal grinding it into oblivion in short order - primary chain tightness - needs to be adjusted - if it don;t - kiss your inner primary/outer primary and all components inside goodbye - another savings of $3500 to do the 1k so far - if hyd clutch no adjustment - if not - adjust your clutch - if not smoke your plates - in the manual covers all item that need to be done on a 1k - but hell - just change lube and go for it - on the average a good tech can do the 3.0 hr service in about 1.7 but they do it day in and day out and work on flat rate - if you do it and have not done it and you honestly do all the items on the list it may average 5 hrs - and you can still perform it - performing all listed items and still be covered by warranty as long as you have proof it was done - in another thread this topic is covered. another quick thought - blast up to 100 mph and remember YOU did the service and see how confident you are - this is not a slam on you my friend it is a constantly asked question and have see alot of bikes repaired due to some owners not wanting to spend a few bucks, or extra money spent due to they have constantly overlooking parts of their services. wait till ya blast 10 k or 20 k on that ride
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Would someone explain just what we do get at this service interval?
I do not really see its worth. Of course its a precaution. The darn thing runs fine now. After this I would like to service myself
NH I think Shovelhead covered it. I do a lot of my own work (except machine work) I don't twist wrenches for a living but have owned and worked on Harleys for about 30 years. If you get out the manual and are convident with your skills then try it. One of the frist things you will need to get is a service manual and supplement manual for your model bike. The first thing I buy when I pick up a bike is the service manual. It will cover everything you need to know. If you have never done any service before I would let the dealer do the 1k service for you. IMHO it is by far the most important service of all. They will go over everything on the bike. If you think about it you have a brand new product that went down an assembly line. You rode it for 1k now there are probably some things that have lossened up or become miss alligned. The people that do this for a living see these things everyday and know what to look for it's just not about fluid changes. I hope this helps you out.
BE SAFE
THE DAWG
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, nhFLSTSFE,
For what it's worth, I am in agreement with the advice and comments concerning your topic, with the exception of shovelhead's description of, "break-in oil." There is no such product. New oil is New oil!! In the beginning, or break-in period, new metal in concert motion with new metal, produces certain contaminates, namely, metal shavings, during the process of these new parts cutting their pattern with each other. The first lubricants, or fluids, that come in our New Motorsickles, are subject to more of these contaminates than subsequent lubricants. Heretofore, the myth of "break-in oil", IS just that! There endeth the lesson. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD
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I certainly agree the benefits outweigh the costs as long as your mechanic performs all the service like they were going to be the one paying for the bike and riding it cross country. There are others of us who may be outstanding mechanics who can perform this service as well as or better than a dealer. However, I am cornfused about one thing. “Break in oil” These things claim to come factory filled with Syn3. Is Syn3 break in oil? If so that would explain why its so hard on gearboxes.
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Brother Dave,
Did you not read Post #3? Later--HUBBARD
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OOPS! That always got me on written tests too. Failure to read the entire question. Darn, hate when that happens!
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OOPS! That always got me on written tests too. Failure to read the entire question. Darn, hate when that happens!
Yeah, 'er 'uh, Dave,
To err is human, to forgive divine! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Don't be so hard on yourself! We'll do that for you!! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]Later--HUBBARD
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That means alot from a fellow who knows the President! Thanks!
Dave
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it is a common thought that i use concerning this topic - i just plain use the term break in oils as the oil's that are in the components when 1st recieved and driven - its the ole term that i mistakenly use - there was such a critter as "break in lubricant" but it is not the lube that is used in todays engines - so a humble bow of head here - so the oil that is in your components and driven should be dumped at 1k to rid those components of any type of metal in an incubation stage from "newness" - be assured quite a few individuals go near 2k before draining any of this from their engine/primaries/trans - makes you want to cringe when you see this - and there is such a thing as cringing and also a thing as me with an apology to correct my "terms of language" [smiley=laugh.gif]
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it is a common thought that i use concerning this topic - i just plain use the term break in oils as the oil's that are in the components when 1st recieved and driven - its the ole term that i mistakenly use - there was such a critter as "break in lubricant" but it is not the lube that is used in todays engines - so a humble bow of head here - so the oil that is in your components and driven should be dumped at 1k to rid those components of any type of metal in an incubation stage from "newness" - be assured quite a few individuals go near 2k before draining any of this from their engine/primaries/trans - makes you want to cringe when you see this - and there is such a thing as cringing and also a thing as me with an apology to correct my "terms of language" [smiley=laugh.gif]
Yeah, 'er 'uh, shovelhead71,
You have probably forgotten more than I know about Harley Motors. You owe no apologies. I welcome your input. I'm just an @$$hole! Ask anybody! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Deal with it! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, shovelhead71,
You have probably forgotten more than I know about Harley Motors. You owe no apologies. I welcome your input. I'm just an @$$hole! Ask anybody! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Deal with it! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD
Damn Hubbard I just love it when you speak the truth!!!!! I just thought I would get that in before Chip saw it.
BE SAFE
THE DAWG
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Dawg
Your to fast!
Remember only Tater's friends can call him that.
That's because they know the real truth!
Chip [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Chip it's not that I'm too fast you were too slow this time.
I'll bet you were out on your bike enjoying the weather and looking for a few more speed cameras!!! I know that was cruel but I been hit by DC's finest red light and speed cameras and not driving the firetruck either. Man it hurts when you have to give them back some of thier money!
I'm going to try to get some sleep we have been running the streets all day and evening. It's the first of the month ya know! You nice gentlemen play nice the rest of the night.
BE SAFE
THE DAWG
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You can go online to the harley website and there is a section about scheduled maintenance. I printed a copy for the 1K. I went into the shop one day and asked them the going rate for a 1k service and liked to fell out. Close to $300.00 parts and labor. In Houston the labor rate in the shops is $70.00 per hr. I questioned the service writer about what was done during the check even though I had the print out from Harley. This was to see if he was on his toes. A good mechanic will check everything and still make a buck. Its a hustle when your working flat rate. Its easy for them to get in a hurry and possibly miss something or not check it because ( its a new bike and only has 1000 miles on it) or for the sake of the almighty buck! Lets hope for the most part they care about doing their jobs right. [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Just had my 1K service performed yesterday. 205.47 Ouch!
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My 1000 service was $00.00
Part of my less than MSRP deal
Plus the parts discount!l
Actually taking it in for the 5K service this week!
[smiley=cherry.gif]---> and the box it came in! [smiley=laugh.gif]
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I looked at my owners book ,I did not see a 2500 mile service?1st one at 1000 miles next one at 5000 miles? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Click on the link below to see the service schedule for your motorcycle at the HD website.I hope this helps you out. [smiley=bigok.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
http://www.harley-davidson.com/EX/MNT/SCHK/en/servicecheckup.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US&HDCWPSession=CCQ24ySxxnLSnjyhJLyLn4LvS2l9xkPlhFynyKtGp9wWFvnMNmkW!-1657106736!939643042
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Thank for the link Maverick. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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$295 for my first service, and I had already changed the oil. [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]
I'm surprised HD uses the SYn3 in new engines, generally syn oil is not recommended for new engines until the first oil, then again Syn 3 is only about 60% synthetic.
By the way, there is such a thing as break in oil Hub, I had the "fortune" to have had to recently purchase 4 - 5gallon pails at $98 per.
http://www.frontierequip.com/service/breakinoil.htm
Here is an interesing quote from the above link
"High-quality premium engine oils should not be used as a break-in oil. The superior anti-wear characteristics of premium oils will inhibit the proper matching of components which could result in excessive oil consumption."
We have followed this theory with our Honda outboards on our towboats, regular oil until the 1st change, then Mobil 1
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Boy, you just don't know who or what to believe anymore on this issue of what oil to use when and where. The MOCO says one thing and then later says the opposite. Us old school guys are trying to keep up and change according to the technological improvements, yet you read from two large equipment manufactors completely differing information on breaking in their engines. Makes no sense. I'm like shovel, just going to the corner and have a drink! Dangit! [smiley=furious.gif] spyder
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$295 for my first service, and I had already changed the oil. [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]
I'm surprised HD uses the SYn3 in new engines, generally syn oil is not recommended for new engines until the first oil, then again Syn 3 is only about 60% synthetic.
By the way, there is such a thing as break in oil Hub, I had the "fortune" to have had to recently purchase 4 - 5gallon pails at $98 per.
http://www.frontierequip.com/service/breakinoil.htm
Here is an interesing quote from the above link
"High-quality premium engine oils should not be used as a break-in oil. The superior anti-wear characteristics of premium oils will inhibit the proper matching of components which could result in excessive oil consumption."
We have followed this theory with our Honda outboards on our towboats, regular oil until the 1st change, then Mobil 1
Yea Yea Yea. Lots of marketing and sales going on out there nowdays in the land of consumers. It seems companies will try and tell you anything to sell a product. People need to be careful on how they interput the pitch. Read the fine print .
If a company wants to produce a product that they claim is specially formulated to enchance breakin or is better for breakin than conventional or synerthic oil so be it. Does break in oil really work that much better than other oils where it will make a noticable difference to the engine or rider?I coudnt tell you. It is quite confusing this issue on oils. I have heard before that a full synthetic oil will not allow engine parts to break in properly. That was an old wives tale from about 15 years ago. With progress now days in all types of enginerring I am sure someone has designed and marketed an oil be it conventional or syntehtic that is superior to everything in the past.
Years back didnt some of the american auto manufactures start using full syntehtic oils from the factory?
With the equipment that I work on we use 100% syntethic oil from the factory. No one seems to be concearned about break in. The customers run the engines till they break and then scream warranty. Anyone one out there have a Petroluem engineering degree? Its seems that there are a lot of different views on what oil or any other products to use and not to use. Choose your weapons mate. Will it be brand X, Y , Z.
I still say ride it like you stold it at least till it breaks. Then scream warranty!!
[smiley=confused5.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=shocked2.gif]
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With the equipment that I work on we use 100% syntethic oil from the factory. No one seems to be concearned about break in. The customers run the engines till they break and then scream warranty. Anyone one out there have a Petroluem engineering degree? Its seems that there are a lot of different views on what oil or any other products to use and not to use. Choose your weapons mate. Will it be brand X, Y , Z.
I still say ride it like you stold it at least till it breaks. Then scream warranty!!
[smiley=confused5.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=shocked2.gif]
Don't have a Petroleum Engrg degree, how about an Automotive Engrg degree? It is true that many manufacturers used "break-in" oil in the earlier days of the auto industry, but I am unaware of anyone doing so in the past 20-30 years. In the bad ol' days, the machining tolerances were such that it really was necessary to perform a break-in routine to let the moving parts "adjust" to each other (rings seated properly, pistons "wore in" to the cylinders without scuffing, etc.). Modern day engines do NOT require extensive break-in due to much more accurate machining and better materials. We use the same oil at the factory that you buy at your dealership, and no longer require any special break-in routine other than avoiding towing or other extreme duty use for the first 500-1000 miles (avoid over heating).
My company uses 5W20 semi-synthetic for initial fill, and we do not see any issues with ring seating, oil consumption, etc. As is true in many other areas of our lives, the old adages that used to be true have been superceded by technology. As for our Harley's, there is absolutely no reason to not use a good 20W50 synthetic, even for break-in. I personally prefer Mobil-1 and have used it for years with absolutely no problems. I originally used the Mobil-1 15W50 in my Harley; now they offer a specific oil for air-cooled V-Twins in 20W50. The main advantage of synthetics is their ability to handle higher temperatures without oxidation and thermal breakdown, and god knows these bikes run hot!
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Don't have a Petroleum Engrg degree, how about an Automotive Engrg degree? It is true that many manufacturers used "break-in" oil in the earlier days of the auto industry, but I am unaware of anyone doing so in the past 20-30 years. In the bad ol' days, the machining tolerances were such that it really was necessary to perform a break-in routine to let the moving parts "adjust" to each other (rings seated properly, pistons "wore in" to the cylinders without scuffing, etc.). Modern day engines do NOT require extensive break-in due to much more accurate machining and better materials. We use the same oil at the factory that you buy at your dealership, and no longer require any special break-in routine other than avoiding towing or other extreme duty use for the first 500-1000 miles (avoid over heating).
My company uses 5W20 semi-synthetic for initial fill, and we do not see any issues with ring seating, oil consumption, etc. As is true in many other areas of our lives, the old adages that used to be true have been superceded by technology. As for our Harley's, there is absolutely no reason to not use a good 20W50 synthetic, even for break-in. I personally prefer Mobil-1 and have used it for years with absolutely no problems. I originally used the Mobil-1 15W50 in my Harley; now they offer a specific oil for air-cooled V-Twins in 20W50. The main advantage of synthetics is their ability to handle higher temperatures without oxidation and thermal breakdown, and god knows these bikes run hot!
Well put GRC!Spoken like a true engineer! I coundnt have said it any better myself !
Like I said before ride it like you stold it or untill it breaks!!
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