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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: CVORoadKing2013 on August 05, 2013, 06:17:06 AM
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So Just got back from a 4200 mile trip to Sturgis and back. We went the week early to avoid the real craziness. I have a 2013 CVO Road king that so far has been a great bike. I have a digital dipstick in it more for oil temp than anything else. I randomly would check it on the trip but not really for oil level because never new when it was on level ground. When I got back home and parked it in its normal spot I checked the oil level. The digital dip stick showed 1 bar down. Still not really worried the bike ran good I. I feel i broke it in right to avoid oil use issues. Pulled out the digital dip stick and used the normal dipstick to check it. It was a 1/2 quart low. I know for some this is nothing and I should not worry, but for me I do not like it. I had it to the full mark when I left.
I have taken a couple other trips not as long and the bike did not use any oil that I could tell. The bike now has 13,600 miles on it. My previous road king also started using oil at around 10,000 miles.
I know what the normal Harley run around will be "It can burn a quart in a 1000 miles before it is an issue."
We ran 500-600 miles a day out and back and 200-250 miles a day while there. I am not hard on the bike and usually run between 2500-3000rpm and don't believe I lug it. I am not seeing oil dripping out the air cleaner so I do not think I have been getting blow by( i know I can still be getting some that is just getting burned back in the intake) and I do not think there is a leak so that leaves burning it in some way.
I know I have a warranty and an extended warranty but I do not want to have to worry about oil use whenever I go out. I thought I had but that behind me when I bought a 36,000.00 top of the line bike. :(
I will talk to my dealer to day but i know what the answer will be. Just frustrated in the fact that if I want it fixed it will cost me to do it because Harley doesn't want to take care of it.
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ide just keep my eye on it,mention it to your dealer to get it on record,but I wouldn't start tearing anything down yet
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I realize that many people these days are used to driving cars that never need oil added between changes, and in fact many people these days don't even bother to check the oil level at all. But that doesn't mean your Harley will do the same thing. One pint of oil in 4200 miles on a Harley is not excessive at all, and in fact there are many thousands of folks who would be very happy if their Harley did that well.
You assume you aren't getting blowby, but you know what they say about assuming things. It's pretty simple to pull the air cleaner cover and element; do so and see how much oil is in the air cleaner and element. As you noted, it doesn't have to be dripping out of the air cleaner, much of it may have been sucked right back into the intake and burned. But there will be evidence. If you see such evidence, trying running the oil level purposely about 8 ounces below full and see what happens.
Jerry
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Jerry
I agree on the car thing I made the same comment to my wife.
I did say I did not notice excessive blow by meaning dripping out the filter. I agree I could still be getting some. If It is I know the soluton is to run it low but that is a band aid fix to me. I know there are after market fixes to the blow by issue but why should I have to spend money to fix there issue.
There are some that report no oil consumption over 5000 miles and some that get a pint or 2. I had no oil consumption for 9000 miles and then all of a sudden it starts. I was hoping not to have this issue on this bike.
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Let me ask this. Is it possible that I was getting some blow bu because of running the higher highway speeds ( 70-80) and most of my other trips were more 45-75 but the higher speeds were not as long where the trip to strugis was many hours at those speeds
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Let me ask this. Is it possible that I was getting some blow bu because of running the higher highway speeds ( 70-80) and most of my other trips were more 45-75 but the higher speeds were not as long where the trip to strugis was many hours at those speeds
Assuming those speeds were in 6th gear, 70-80 mph isn't exactly high rpm so I don't think the speed is the issue. However, the longer distances at sustained highway speeds can increase the oil temperature and thin the oil, and that will tend to get worse as the oil gets more miles on it (depending on the actual oil of course). If the air temps were also high during your trip that would also affect oil temps. Thinner hotter oil is more prone to increased consumption.
I assume you change oil at 5k intervals, and if so you aren't even close to having to add between changes. If it were me I wouldn't even consider spending money to "fix" something that really isn't broken yet. If you start obsessing over the truly normal stuff, you will drive yourself nuts with all the other real problems Harley includes on their bikes at no additional charge. As prodrag1320 mentioned, get it on record with the dealer that you have seen an increase in oil consumption, but Harley isn't going to do anything at the current level of consumption. Then just watch it and see if it was a fluke due to the conditions of your recent trip, or if it gets worse.
JMHO - Jerry
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Let me ask this. Is it possible that I was getting some blow bu because of running the higher highway speeds ( 70-80) and most of my other trips were more 45-75 but the higher speeds were not as long where the trip to strugis was many hours at those speeds
It has been my personal experience that more misting occurs at higher RPM and/or sustained running at highway speeds. My '06 (103) always liked to run 1/2 a quart low. If you topped it off, it would just blow it out the air filter until it reached it's "happy" level. On my '11 (110) it used about a pint or so between oil changes. And some of that went into the filter element...it's just the nature of the beast. 1/2 quart between oil change intervals of 5K is not excessive in an air cooled, "loose" engine like a HD Vtwin, and running 1/2 quart low is not going to damage the engine in any way. Your modern car engine is built to very tight tolerances, is water cooled for consistent overall engine temps, so there is very little blow by or other sources of oil consumption.
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I don't think the temps were that high last week in Sturgis. Actually they days to and from we're mainly cooler to the point the motor never got above 220-230 but that is engine temp not oil temp.
The oil is syn3 not my favorite but I have a service contract and that is what the dealer has for synthetic
Oil changed at 9k because of the trip
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I do like the theory that it is misting at higher highway speed over the 8-10 of riding a day going and coming from Sturgis. that makes me feel a little better if that theory holds true. The head temps going and coming were very consistent ( wards parts werks fans) I know that doesn't help the oil temps that much.
I topped off the oil and will talk to the dealer today to get it noted. I will ride the bike and keep an eye on it and see if it continues to do this.
On my other trips this year the longest Highway travel was maybe 7 hours to Boone, Nc and Back but that is also slightly slower speeds than going to Sturgis
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A TON of bikes will 'find' their own level, for oil, once a bike is fully broken in. 1/2 quart down sounds normal to me.
The 'test' will be to NOT add any oil after your next oil change. These bikes can run fine with ONE quart in the tank, so if it drops, but then stops after 1/2 quart? You are good to go. Go the full 5,000 miles and... get some hiway miles, too. See if it will go all the way to a quart low. Anything less than a quart a 5k miles is EXCELLENT.
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A TON of bikes will 'find' their own level, for oil, once a bike is fully broken in. 1/2 quart down sounds normal to me.
The 'test' will be to NOT add any oil after your next oil change. These bikes can run fine with ONE quart in the tank, so if it drops, but then stops after 1/2 quart? You are good to go. Go the full 5,000 miles and... get some hiway miles, too. See if it will go all the way to a quart low. Anything less than a quart a 5k miles is EXCELLENT.
I agree. As soon as you get it back from the dealer. You really need to check the oil for a starting reference. When the bike does find it's level. Your intake tract will be cleaner.
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My 06 103 is the same. you can fill it up to the full mark but after at least 1000 miles your down at the lower level almost a quart down. Then it just stays there. Been like that for about 60,000 miles. Never noticed anything in the air filter really. I even rebuilt the whole motor and changed out the valve seals and everything else. Still does it. Had two of these same bikes. Both were the same. No clue where it goes but it doesn't like being full.
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Pulled the air filter there seemed to be a little bit of blow by in it. It has a k and n filter on it ( new) there was some of the spray they use on them and what appeared to be some oil as well.
I had also pulled the plugs before I left on the trip and after the trip quite a difference and nothing change in the afr only difference was the fuels used in the different states
Before pic
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After trip
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I never fill any of the bikes I work on to the full mark. For most of the bikes I see the halfway mark on the dipstick is the sweet spot.
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Now tell us about the octane booster, why?
If you are running no booster there is oil in your combustion. If the intake tract is clean the source is likely the valve seals / guides, intake side, exhaust side will just carbon up the port and send oil out the pipe for the most part with the stock cam.
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I did use some octane boost on the trip. Most of he gas out and back was 91 octane ethenol so I did use the octane boost to make sure I did not get pinging
Is that what caused the reddish/brown color
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Yep. When I see octane boost I always ask the customer about it and a lot of them say "it gives my bike a boost of energy" but I think they are just boosting the economy lol
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Mine sucks more oil than normal with all the downhill coasting in the hills. I wouldn't be alarmed anyway at a pint in 4000 miles.
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Ask people who own Cadillac CTS with the v6 about oil consumption and you will hear some stories. 1 at every 3000 miles is OK by caddi and there is no oil level sensor for those guys. Lol
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Yep. When I see octane boost I always ask the customer about it and a lot of them say "it gives my bike a boost of energy" but I think they are just boosting the economy lol
:2vrolijk_21: So much misinformation out there, and the purveyors of bogus additives take advantage of all that misinformation to make huge profits.
If the gas was labeled 91 octane minimum, R+M/2, then it doesn't matter if it contained ethanol or not, it still met or exceeded the antiknock requirement recommended by Harley for the engine. With a modern closed loop engine management system, it's not necessary to worry about the alcohol creating a slightly leaner mixture which can lead to pinging on an open loop bike.
Next time, save your money.
Jerry
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Assuming those speeds were in 6th gear, 70-80 mph isn't exactly high rpm so I don't think the speed is the issue. However, the longer distances at sustained highway speeds can increase the oil temperature and thin the oil, and that will tend to get worse as the oil gets more miles on it (depending on the actual oil of course). If the air temps were also high during your trip that would also affect oil temps. Thinner hotter oil is more prone to increased consumption.
I assume you change oil at 5k intervals, and if so you aren't even close to having to add between changes. If it were me I wouldn't even consider spending money to "fix" something that really isn't broken yet. If you start obsessing over the truly normal stuff, you will drive yourself nuts with all the other real problems Harley includes on their bikes at no additional charge. As prodrag1320 mentioned, get it on record with the dealer that you have seen an increase in oil consumption, but Harley isn't going to do anything at the current level of consumption. Then just watch it and see if it was a fluke due to the conditions of your recent trip, or if it gets worse.
JMHO - Jerry
This is why I love reading Jerry's post, besides the good info there is something like this that makes me smile. Thanks Jerry. :2vrolijk_21:
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All good information guys. I have it topped off and will ride it like I had been. Mostly 35-65Mph and see if it goes back to not using any oil and go from there. I will update in a few weeks when I get some miles back on it. the weather hasn't been cooperating this week.
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All good information guys. I have it topped off and will ride it like I had been. Mostly 35-65Mph and see if it goes back to not using any oil and go from there. I will update in a few weeks when I get some miles back on it. the weather hasn't been cooperating this week.
It is MY feeling you have internetitis... everyone gets this a time or two, and usually the ONLY true cure is spending huge amounts of money. Internetitis is when we all see problems on these forums and over worry about them... thinking OUR bikes have these self same issues as the other posters do. Usually this is NOT true. Most, on the internet, only whine about problems, and we then become infected that we, too MUST have problems.
Don't fall victim to this. Save yourself some unnecessary pain and lightening of wallet.
1)- 1/2 quart, hell even one quart down is NORMAL, and is simply something folks blow off after awhile, and YOU never hear of it.
2)- Do NOT use additives. They do NOTHING for you. In fact, if the bike pings excessively, what you NEED is a tune, fix once and done kind of thing. Most bikes, even 100% stock perform better, going down the road, once the EPA mandated lean ass tune is replaced with a decent tune.
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I dont think I do have internetitis
The bike for 9000 miles used no determinable amount of oil. On this trip it did. You get 2 schools of thought from people on the forum. Some say they use oil some say they dont. I can accept the misting or blow by due to highway speeds I was running at and that it was different from my normal riding and this is what caused the oil use. I am good with that.
Yes I wanted to make sure the bike did not ping and tried octane boost. Did it do anything for me. I don't think so and it will not be used again.
Do I need to get it in my head that these engines at time and under certain circumstances use oil "yes"
I dont think there is anything wrong with making sure when something changes that it is not a problem that is what these forums are for.
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Nothing is wrong that will strand you related to oil use.
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I seriously keep thinking this thread was meant to be funny. We're talking a pint in over 4000 miles??? Get real and worry about other things!!
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Again asking a question about something shouldn't be an issue. The bike didn't use oil at all and on the trip it did all I wanted to know is if it was an issue
People have given me a valid explanation of what it might be
If you think the thread is a joke don't read it
Again there are several people who think the bikes shouldn't use oil at all and some feel its fine to use a little.
It's a $36k bike I would rather catch something early if it is an issue than later
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I have a 2010 Chevy Equinoz that burns 2 quarts in 4,000 miles and GM tells me that is normal!
Funny though that after two years of being told this is normal, last week when in for its normal oil change the dealer informed me that they would be reringing the engine when they get the parts in and all for free!
65,000 miles worth of drinking oil and now they are going to try to fix it!
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The fix won't happen with factory parts, sorry to say. I already explained.
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Yes that I do know.
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I ride a 2004 SEEG. Filled it with Amsoil cause I love the beast and it never talks back to me. But I have to agree with the responses that said "the bike finds it's happy level" and "it likes to run 1 quart low." I fill my 103 engine with 4 quarts of high-cost oil and the ungrateful bugger spits out a pint of it before I can even get to 1,000 miles. I have no idea where it goes but it happily stays at that level until we get to the next oil change interval which is about 5,000 miles. Next time I'm gonna only put in 3 1/2 quarts and we'll see how the little beggar likes that. Two can play at this game. :orange: