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[Rhino]

Hi All,

Installed my Tmax new version w AutoTune on my 07 SEUC.  Took all of 15 minutes, plus an hour to take off pipe to clear fitment on front with the sensor.  (Rinehart). No big deal.  Set up auto IAC, and let it go.  Started it up, rode it for a bit, did about three stops and starts, and it is SWEEEEET. 

I like the live everything when online, and frankly, it's gonna put a few tuners out of business.  It's a quick bike now because it is tuned correctly.  It is a nice piece.

The sert is ok too, but you must rely on a tuner to get your there. That is the issue. The autotune is the cherry on the cake.

I feel Zippers has hit one out of the park on this technology. 

On another note, some like the PC series.  You make the adjustments as an add on piece to fool the stock ECM. But here is the kicker.  The ECM will win back the stock settings, overiding the PC after a while. I don't know how this supposedly does it, but it has something to do with the stock ECM and it's closed loop adjustments wanting to take it back to the original base maps.  That is not a good thing.

I am pretty happy with all of it.  I had the SERT, and relyed on a tuner, but I was still getting hot on the rear cyl.  Even got a tinge of yellowing on the rear badge.  I am searching for a new clean one, and with the Autotune, it will stay clean too.

Rhino

[ultrafxr]

With the T-Max with auto tune can the dealership still do diagnostic checks, pull trouble codes etc if the check eng. light should come on. I am on the fence about whether to get it or the SERT.

I spoke to Zippers with this exact question and the answer is no, the dealership cannot use their digital technician to pull trouble codes.  Must use the T-max software to communicate with the T-max ecm.  This is a big concern for me since I can forsee real problems if engine malfunctions due to some faulty sensor that may have nothing to do with the T-max ecm but could cause a real spitting contest between you, the dealer and the moco or extended warranty folks.  And if should have trouble while on the road, well I don't want to even think about that. 

Seems that it works great but there are other components in this equation that could cause problems it seems to me.

[Twolanerider]

With the T-Max with auto tune can the dealership still do diagnostic checks, pull trouble codes etc if the check eng. light should come on. I am on the fence about whether to get it or the SERT.

As Jerry mentioned above it's really "not exactly."  There are trouble codes that can be read.  You'd need to carry the T-Max software and their cable along with you (mine are already tucked away in an out of the way pocket on the bike). 

In an ideal and logical world one wouldn't see an issue with telling a service mgr, "hey, you can read that ok, just load this software up on a laptop."  One can very easily and quickly envision, however, a variety of less than favorable responses to that request.

It is completely legitimate, for example, for someone to tell you "no, I'm not loading your software on my computers, I don't know where it came from."  That is a completely legit response.  They could also just choose to be assholes and be difficult on purpose.

My own solution to that was simple enough.  The stock ECM is going to be pretty close.  Certainly close enough to run for a bit if need be.  It came off the T-Max to go on.  It then went in a static back in the bottom of the saddlebag.  So if there's ever a problem on the road in an area where the shop chooses not be helpful I'll spend 15 minutes swapping ECMs and then tell them "ok Mr. Helpful, read it now."

[HDguy]

Man oh Man, decisions, decisions, decisions. For me this will be a tough one. The Tmax with autotune is the way to go but if you do have problems YIKES it could get real ugly. Oh well I will just have to dig deep and make a decision.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Chief]

On another note, some like the PC series.  You make the adjustments as an add on piece to fool the stock ECM. But here is the kicker.  The ECM will win back the stock settings, overiding the PC after a while. I don't know how this supposedly does it, but it has something to do with the stock ECM and it's closed loop adjustments wanting to take it back to the original base maps.  That is not a good thing.

Rhino

Rhino,

Without hijacking this thread, I'll have to step in here and say this is not true for a couple of reasons:

• The PC does not trick the ECM. The PC modifies the ECM's signals to the injectors. If anything is getting tricked, it is the injectors. The PC modifies the "Output" of the ECM, not the "Input"
• Closed loop mode is disabled because the O2 sensors are disconnected and the wires are capped with O2 sensor eliminators. Closed loop can't work without sensors.

I totally agree the TMax / AT is the best way to go.

Chief

[Rhino]

OK Cheif,

I'll agree with you as long as the sensors are disconnected.  I assume that is also part of the PC's operation.  But if they stayed connected.....then the comment would be correct. Without the sensor, the ecm has nothing to chase.

But isn't that defeatin the whole purpose?  The TMAX in closed loop with the wide band is exactly what we are all after anyway, the almighty AFR perfection.  Either preset or changed by the operator, in any one of 2,000 combinations that you can see on the screen, or even record an entire day of riding, gives me a lot more confidence that assuming the tuner did it correctly on a sert or PC.


Rhino

PS:  I have been running the Tmax Auto for all of 400 miles or so, and each ride sounds better and better.   As for diagnostics, you as the owner have more available with the TMAX, except perhaps the radio and other electrical??, but I don't think it would stop the engine.  Interesting question about check engine light.  I do not know if it would even work. I do know that there is diagnostics in the TMAX referring to it's own codes, if something is amiss.

I have a SERT also, now married to the original ECM, and the customed dyno map that was downloaded to it.  After a while, as I continue strengthening my confidence with the TMAX (so far 100% a-ok), I would get rid of it as a combo. The SERT, Cables and Stock ECM (has a new map for my config in it. )  But the beauty of the TMAX is that I don't need a Dyno ever again.


Oh yeh, and that last thing.  If the dealer does not take care of you, which I think is unlikely, just get on a laptop and pull the readings and settings.  The only thing I night carry along is the connector and my USB plug. Pull into any starbucks and borrow a computer from the best looking lass in there. 

Or Call Zippers and have them Fedex a Loaner overnight if it's that critical.  Or plug it in online, and let them diagnose it online too.

EnD

[Ironhorse]

Guys after my most recent experience with Zippers, I have to post.

The Thunder-Max Auto Tune is a good system period. My bike runs better than ever before.

However, I will have to caveat this posting by saying that in my experience, their customer service is horrible. E-mails go unanswered, voice mails never get return calls. Postings here on the Zippers forum go unanswered. I literally have to CHASE DOWN people in the building from department and area to department and area. I have ASKED to be placed on hold for long periods of time just so I can get the outside chance of speaking to someone who can help me and answer a few questions.

When I call, I ALWAYS get the same response, send an e-mail. So I do, and it takes damn near forever to get an answer. And when it does, of course I have follow up questions, that those take damn near forever to be answered. I just want to know why in the HELL can't these people call back when I leave a message?

[screamin eagle]

 I had the thundermax with auto tune installed on my wifes 06 lowrider and it runs great. It got ride of the backfiring when you down shift also. Zippers is installing the same thundermax with auto tune along with the 103 Muscle kit on my 06 SE FatBoy. They called and said that the tolerance on the crankshaft was so far out that the could not install gear drive cams. (They are seeing alot of them on 05's and newer) They are having it blue printed along with installing the Timken bearing. Now I know why harley does not sell gear drive cams.

[Unbalanced]

Screamin,

Is that crank going to be warrantied by Harley?   If not, why not if it is out that far?

just curious since your going through all that effort?   Also curious if your going to the 103 muscle kit and you have everything out of the bike why your not spending the little bit more and going 113 since the cases will be apart anyhow for the timken bearing?

[sqrrl24]

Harry,
   Do you know if Zippers will be at Daytona doing auto tune installs like they were last year with the Thundermax?

[Unbalanced]

As far as I understand they will be in the same spot as biketoberfest

[hogasm]

As far as I understand they will be in the same spot as biketoberfest

I'm feeling lots of love from that last post Unbalanced. 

shhhhhhhh..........

inside joke 

[Unbalanced]

Dear Mr. Bracey

Some things just gotta make you go hrmmmmm......

[screamin eagle]

 Unbalanced, I am not even going to go and speak to the Dealer about the Crankshaft. They know about all of them. This is there standard product. A new one would be the same, if not worse. I checked into upgrading my 103 package to a 113. Good call on your part as I forgot about the 113. Talked to Bill and he said I could still do it since they have not started to put it back together. For the price it was worth the extra HP and Torgue.

[Unbalanced]

Screamin,

I think you made a good call there and glad I was able to point you at it.   You should also consider putting in roller rockers for the 113 build over the standard rocker arms that come in the bike.   Looking forward to seeing how your build comes out.   The only other thing you might consider or ask Zippers about is the throttle body size.   I am not sure if your's is a 50 or a 46 on the Fatboy.  If its a 46 you may want to consider upping it to 50 by either a Zippers or a Screaming Eagle.   The screaming eagle comes with the larger injectors 4.89 gm/sec and is only 399.99 including the injectors and one piece manifold.

-harry