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[CVO2FIXUP]

 Stopping metal on metal contact ( shaft to bolt ) is not a snake oil cure.  Its about as sensible a fix as can be. Why so skeptical.

[grc]

Stopping metal on metal contact ( shaft to bolt ) is not a snake oil cure.  Its about as sensible a fix as can be. Why so skeptical.

Read it again, I didn't say that particular shaft "fix" was snake oil.  That comment was about the various additives and oil claims.  If you have a real problem, fix it.  If you have unrealistic expectations that an antique engine design like a Harley is going to make no mechanical noise, be prepared to be dissatisfied any time the engine is running.

Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Just for the record, the lifter, loaded to .140" on a .200" plunger, with the proper viscosity oil for the ambient air temps, DOES, repeat DOES, bring a level of quiet to the engine at the full thermal expansion........and we WILL continue to use this learned methodology here for our clients............but then again........I almost forgot................

[MrSurly]

If...(OK, when-) I next take mine apart I will definitely investigate this. It would seem to me that the best approach for a long-term solution would be to either
1.) bush the support and ream to a precise fit on the shaft   OR
2.) knurl the i.d. of the support to create an interference fit and then press it.

The pics of the marks on the bolts are very convincing that a "smoking gun" was found on THIS particular engine.
We don't know how common this is in practice. Guys who wrench all the time may well have discovered this same issue and have addressed it successfully... It's not particularly surprising that they would play this card close to the vest.
If the malady IS common, but not commonly cured, then the shop that figures it out has the opportunity to get a leg up on the competition as "the guy that fixed my noise" and gain reputation and business. Every shop would love to be the only place around that could fix it.
If you have the secret to curing a common issue, telling your competition the secret is not good business.
 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

If...(OK, when-) I next take mine apart I will definitely investigate this. It would seem to me that the best approach for a long-term solution would be to either
1.) bush the support and ream to a precise fit on the shaft   OR
2.) knurl the i.d. of the support to create an interference fit and then press it.

The pics of the marks on the bolts are very convincing that a "smoking gun" was found on THIS particular engine.
We don't know how common this is in practice. Guys who wrench all the time may well have discovered this same issue and have addressed it successfully... It's not particularly surprising that they would play this card close to the vest.
If the malady IS common, but not commonly cured, then the shop that figures it out has the opportunity to get a leg up on the competition as "the guy that fixed my noise" and gain reputation and business. Every shop would love to be the only place around that could fix it.
If you have the secret to curing a common issue, telling your competition the secret is not good business.

Well said words of a thinking gentleman!
Scott

[CVO2FIXUP]

 To this day however, I have not heard of a single shop that is claiming to eradicate the tick! Pre-load and oil is one thing. A actual fix is something to be "advertised" ( secret or not )  so I can show up, plunk down my $$ and start liking riding my bike again.  I hate the way mine sounds now and ever since I bought it. I cringe going through the gears and listening metal parts clanging together. Many times thought of BMW, or even a gold wing. I would if Harley was not so dam cool.

[Ridgerunr]

"If you have the secret to curing a common issue, telling your competition the secret is not good business."

So why tell everyone to load a lifter to a specified length? Or why say "we do this everyday walk in the park"? Essentially sharing info? tooting ones own horn? I don't know. Here's another school of thought, the shop that is willing to articulate a cure that some may not have the skills/equipment to perform may indeed get increased buisness. In the 40 + years I've been riding this brand, countless things have come up that the finder thinks/hopes will make them lots of dollars, but there are very few wealthy independent shop owners. Everything from Singh grooves to compensator trays, but they were shared, and that's important. The shop that doesn't spend it's time putting others down will get more buisness everytime. Negativity is usually a losing buisness model.   

[CVO2FIXUP]

 One more point to add. If a shop shares the repair, or a way to perform a certain task others will run with it and most likely improve on the idea and or the method. Every one benefits in the end. 

[timtoolman]

Shop Craftsmanship secrets are a good thing, equating to years of experience and hard work why just give out hard earned  fixes learned over time? Also I can see assistance from a shop where you are a continuing customer not just  calling for info on answers, That dam Gilligan

[HD Street Performance]

Tim
You have a Hillside package.
So are we to assume he did something on your build to stabilize the rocker shafts from turning? Has anyone had a Hillside motor apart and seen any fix in this area?
If so I can accept a claim to proprietary information. If not then this is nothing more than tagging on to another persons' accomplishments.


"Smoking gun" may be a bit extreme..
There will be motors that don't even have the shafts turning.
I certainly would not pull down a good running motor to check.

Like I said before try the fix if your bolts have witness marks and let us know after the motor is allowed to get fully warmed up with full oil temperature if the noise level is improved.

I won't be able to give any accurate feedback as I am changing valve springs, lifters (one is bad), and pushrods at the same time.

[Yellow09SERG]

I can't help but find it amusing when people come up with these magical answers to noisy Harley engines.  One guy will swear that he transformed his clattery bike that sounded like something with a million miles on it into a nearly silent wonder, by just changing the oil from brand X to brand Y.  Then we have the folks who don't change the oil brand, but they dump in some snake oil additive and quote all the lies on the product web page as proof the stuff is magic in a bottle.  Then we have the folks who tell us to take a lifter designed to operate with the plunger centered in the bore and instead crank the pushrod out until the plunger is nearly bottomed out.  Others tell us we need to eliminate all the side play in the rockers, others tell us to tighten up the valve guide to stem clearance, and now we find we need to lock the rocker shaft with heavy duty locking adhesive so it can't budge. 

Let me clue you in on the REAL solution to a noisy Harley engine:  turn off the ignition!

Jerry
[/quote

And purchase really good ear plugs that can be found one the Internet too

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Tim
You have a Hillside package.
So are we to assume he did something on your build to stabilize the rocker shafts from turning? Has anyone had a Hillside motor apart and seen any fix in this area?
If so I can accept a claim to proprietary information. If not then this is nothing more than tagging on to another persons' accomplishments.


"Smoking gun" may be a bit extreme..
There will be motors that don't even have the shafts turning.
I certainly would not pull down a good running motor to check.

Like I said before try the fix if your bolts have witness marks and let us know after the motor is allowed to get fully warmed up with full oil temperature if the noise level is improved.

I won't be able to give any accurate feedback as I am changing valve springs, lifters (one is bad), and pushrods at


Don,
Do you actually make your living doing this, our is this just a hobby of yours......??

[Mr. Warlock]

If you have the secret to curing a common issue, telling your competition the secret is not good business.

Well, I completely disagree. The point of these boards and why this particular board is one of the best boards out there, is... the willingness to share and help fellow board members. If your only reason for being here is to pump yourself up and jump on for the sole purpose of marketing yourself then you will get the kind of reactions that we see here directed towards these marketing posts.

As far as this "great" business "secret", this is not rocket science, and if it was, there would be a huge marketing display towards this awesome FIX. The proprietary secret keepers would be too wealthy to be wasting their time on this board tooting their own horn that they have known about it all along. But it's a secret so we don't actually make any money from it. What a bunch crap, sometimes the window is so clear you can actually see through it.

[Ridgerunr]

Right on. Can you imagine S&S going through all the R&D for gear drive cams............and then keeping it a secret. Or how about Bert Baker keeping his 6spd OD a secret. He's not so insecure that he didn't have an agreement with Jims to offer a gearset based on his design. Any good idea ends up at the Cinci show every Feb.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Right on. Can you imagine S&S going through all the R&D for gear drive cams............and then keeping it a secret. Or how about Bert Baker keeping his 6spd OD a secret. He's not so insecure that he didn't have an agreement with Jims to offer a gearset based on his design. Any good idea ends up at the Cinci show every Feb.

We do not post how we build our cranks, we don't post how we size guides, we don't post what material we use when a new jig or fixture is designed/manufactured and w hen we don't post that we have used locate to glue the rocker shafts in their supports to stop valve train noise we are wrong?
I think I'll go back to doing something much more constructive now.......like maybe taking a nap.