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Author Topic: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire  (Read 6364 times)

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Dan_Lockwood

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Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« on: May 22, 2017, 01:08:16 PM »

Okay, I'm cheating a bit as I'm posting this in the electronics forum knowing that it will probably get moved to the trailer forum.  But I'm looking for input kind of quickly and I don't know how many of the guys will monitor the trailer forum.

Okay, this is my issue.

I have the Bushtec wiring isolator harness and I bought the '09 CVO "T" cable harness from Bushtec.  Everything works great, but my trailer is the flat 4 wire "common" wiring, not the Bushtec "independent" wiring.

I have separate wires for the two turns and one brake along with one tail that come out of the Bushtec flat 6 plug.  Plus ground and a 12v + for trail inside power.

I bought a Hopkins universal 5 wire to 4 wire converter.  I wire nutted all the Bushtec outputs to the inputs of the Hopkins converter just for testing. 

Powering up the bike I have my tail light in/out of the converter, but I have no other outputs from the Hopkins converter.  While still wire nutted up, I probed the wire nuts with my 12v test light and I had right turn, left turn and brake signals at each of the appropriate wires.  But again, no output on the turn signal wires.

I called Hopkins and the tech said that their converters may or may not work with motorcycles.  Apparently to get a right or left turn with brake I have to have one or the other grounded to set the converter and apparently the Harley or Bushtec does not do that.

What have you guys done to go from the separate turn and brake wires "independent" on the Harley to getting to a 4 wire harness? 

I thought with the 5 to 4 converter and the Bushtec isolator that I would be good to go, but obviously that's not the case.  I think Bushtec sells a Universal harness isolator, but their pricing is just out of touch.  But it may come down to that anyway.

I'm sure there's some grassroots conversions done here and I'm asking for some help.

Thanks.

I called Hopkins this morning and
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Dan

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2017, 01:34:47 PM »

Dan, I think most members just look at the "Show unread posts since last visit" link so they will see it. You might want to send JC a p.m. if he doesn't respond to this. If anyone would know, he probably would.
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 01:38:08 PM »

Can't help you.  Jim probably knows and I believe Lou (Granpadoc) might also be able to lean in on this.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 01:45:34 PM »

Thanks guys, I'll just hang in here and see what comes.

Have a great afternoon.
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Dan

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 02:01:57 PM »

Dan, send Chains ( Jim ) a PM . He is the Bushtec Guru. I know he would be happy to help you.

Mike
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 03:14:28 PM »

Sorry, but I can't help you either, Dan.  I've always used a Bushtec harness.  Chains would be your guy.  Send him a PM.
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2017, 04:00:44 PM »

You're going to have a problem Dan.  On a four wire harness the brake light and turn signal occupy the same wire and bulb filament.  On Harley they are separate and don't occupy the same wire run.  Thus the extra wires.

Cars have RT, LT, Tail light and ground.  They get by with four wires because the brake light feed comes down the same line as the turn signal and then just keeps that bulb on all the time until the pedal is released.  The way a Harley is wired you just can't accomplish that over four wires.  On the Harley need brake, tail, rt, lt, and ground.  The sixth wire is then unused or used as a power source for a cabin light or whatever other use you might have (USB charger).

Does the trailer have only dual filament bulb on each side in the rear?  If so you'll need more parts.  If it does have two separate bulbs on each side in the rear (likely one single filament and one dual filament) you're solution is likely to just pull more wire and make the trailer's wiring match the bike.

If it's just got a single bulb on each side in the back end you can make it work.  You'll have to buy more parts though.  I've used the Badlands module that mixes turn signals and tail lights to accomplish what you're wanting to do.  You'll wire in the module downstream of everything else in the bike so that it just alters the trailer. 
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2017, 06:16:08 PM »

You're going to have a problem Dan.  On a four wire harness the brake light and turn signal occupy the same wire and bulb filament.  On Harley they are separate and don't occupy the same wire run.  Thus the extra wires.

Cars have RT, LT, Tail light and ground.  They get by with four wires because the brake light feed comes down the same line as the turn signal and then just keeps that bulb on all the time until the pedal is released.  The way a Harley is wired you just can't accomplish that over four wires.  On the Harley need brake, tail, rt, lt, and ground.  The sixth wire is then unused or used as a power source for a cabin light or whatever other use you might have (USB charger).

Does the trailer have only dual filament bulb on each side in the rear?  If so you'll need more parts.  If it does have two separate bulbs on each side in the rear (likely one single filament and one dual filament) you're solution is likely to just pull more wire and make the trailer's wiring match the bike.

If it's just got a single bulb on each side in the back end you can make it work.  You'll have to buy more parts though.  I've used the Badlands module that mixes turn signals and tail lights to accomplish what you're wanting to do.  You'll wire in the module downstream of everything else in the bike so that it just alters the trailer.

Don, actually most cars/trucks today have LT, RT and a separate brake light wire.

I bought the Hopkins converter that allows the 3 separate LT, RT, Brake to be converted into the LT, RT with both of them flashing during an applied brake pedal.

So in my mind, it should have worked.  But the Hopkins guy said it would be a slight chance if it worked for me.

In the converter there has to be some diodes that keep the brake signal from back feeding into the opposite turn signal.

The weird thing is that if I apply 12v to either the green (RT) or yellow (LT) on the conveyor, I get zip out the other side to the trailer wiring.  If I apply 12v to the red brake wire, I "should" get power to both the yellow and green wires, which would be the same as a normal 4 wire w/ground in a NON turn signal brake application.

Hopkins also makes a power converter that does the same thing as the Bushtec power isolator.  It uses the bike leads as a signal only, no load.  It has a power lead from the battery that feeds the trailer wires independently through their own fuse.  So the Hopkins power converter does the same thing, plus it is supposed to combine the 3 turn and brake wires into the two turn wires.

I know there's a way to get to where I need to go, but.....
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Dan

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2017, 06:51:07 PM »

Don, actually most cars/trucks today

Most, but not all.  The important difference is because of the hardware upstream the turn signal and brake leads can feed downstream over the same wire.  So four wires can still work and do so the same as the old equipment did.  Harley doesn't do it that way.  Entirely separated runs to the rear needing five wires.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2017, 10:50:14 PM »

Most, but not all.  The important difference is because of the hardware upstream the turn signal and brake leads can feed downstream over the same wire.  So four wires can still work and do so the same as the old equipment did.  Harley doesn't do it that way.  Entirely separated runs to the rear needing five wires.

But how are guys running flat 4 wiring on their Harleys?
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Dan

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2017, 11:13:39 PM »

But how are guys running flat 4 wiring on their Harleys?


This is the exact kit I used on my 15 FLTRUSE it is the isolator with the 4 wire flat connector. I have a N-Line trailer and all works perfect. I even have CD Magic strobe plugged into the bike and this works with that also. However it only strobes the bike brake lights. Hope it helps.
http://www.khromewerks.com/shop/detail/720752



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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 11:50:58 PM »

But how are guys running flat 4 wiring on their Harleys?

The one time I did it was using that Badlands module mentioned earlier. It will take that or some other type of logic module.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2017, 07:47:09 AM »

Thanks everyone.

I'll check with my local HD dealership as I know that they do sell hitches and they may have the Khrome Werks harness to fit my '09 wiring.

Got to get this done and road ready this weekend...

Thanks again.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Dan

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2017, 04:56:41 PM »

Dan,
 I just had the same problem, with my 11 CVO & Bushtec trailer & it's fixed now! Bushetec sells isolator  for  5 to 4 converters. Electrical Connections sells the same isolators & converters, as a matter of fact Bushtec gets all their wiring supplies from Electrical Connections. I'm running the same harness & isolator from Electrical Connections.  For $30 dollars I fixed mine. You need the plug & play 5 to 4 converter from either place. The part #7664 from Electrical Connections. Their ph# is 865-219-9191. Their techs name is Philip & was a great help to me. This should fix your problem.

Good luck,
Danner
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2017, 09:02:45 PM »

Dan, been digging through paperwork from when I done the 09. I can't find the exact part number but I did find the contact name at Bushtec that was able to fix me up. The guys at the service counter was not much help but finally got a hold of a lady named Jammie Bunch @Bushtec and she was able to fix me up. This was back in. 2014 so maybe you will get lucky and she is still there. I know they sent me the isolator and it was correct for the bike but had a 6 wire output for the Bushtec trailers then she had to send me a converter to get me to my Aluma trailer. Hope you get it figured out
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2017, 09:08:06 PM »

Found it, but call to double check the numbers because I know what I got the first time was wrong and she fixed it
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2017, 07:08:31 AM »

Thank you all very much for the suggestions and information.

I "think" I have a plan now.  I ordered the Kuryakyn universal kit for the isolator and 5 to 4 converter.  Kit numbers were 7671 and 7675.  I should have them today and will install them tonight.

I'll do a quick update tomorrow morning and let you all know how well the kits worked out.

Thanks again for the help...  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 01:00:18 PM »

Bushtecs are wired as follows.

Green-Taillights/running
Blue-Brake lights
Yellow-RH Turn
Brown-LH Turn
White Ground
Black-Interior light/ auxiliary

I have never run across a Bushtec with a 4 pin flat plug on it.  Glad you other guys new what it takes to go to 4 flat. 
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2017, 01:43:06 PM »

Bushtecs are wired as follows.

Green-Taillights/running
Blue-Brake lights
Yellow-RH Turn
Brown-LH Turn
White Ground
Black-Interior light/ auxiliary

I have never run across a Bushtec with a 4 pin flat plug on it.  Glad you other guys new what it takes to go to 4 flat.

Chains, not sure if Bushtec has ever made a 4 wire trailer, but the do sale an isolator/converter for non Bushtec trailers
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Chains

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2017, 02:23:36 PM »

Chains, not sure if Bushtec has ever made a 4 wire trailer, but the do sale an isolator/converter for non Bushtec trailers

They probably do make a 4 pin flat for the sports car customers. It's just that I've never seen one in all the Bushtecs I have owned. I have also never seen a Bushtec with a standard hitch for a 1 7/8 ball like Dan has. I'm sure they will build anything someone is willing to pay for.

I'm glad you guys were able to help Dan.
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 04:19:13 PM »

My 2013 Bushtec Trailer does have a 6 wire harness.
 The previous owner added led tail lights but didn't know what he was doing as to wire the new led lights.The led lights have 3 wires, 1 tail, 2 turn & stop, & 1 ground, total 4 wires. Turn signal & brake use 1 wire & this is where I had the problem to get them to function properly.  My Legend trailer has a 6 rectangle plug ( I use 5 wires) so this is how I have 2 bikes wired with this plug. I use the same rectangle plug on the Bushtec trailer but only use 4 wires. Where I ran into the problem was trying to wire it to a 5 wire system. I had a 5 to 4 converter that I purchased in 2012 when I purchased the harness & isolator. With  the converter plugged in, it still didn't function properly. I called Electrical Connections where I purchased everything in 2012. With the help of Philip their tech, diagnosed the 5 to 4 converter was bad ( never used but 5 years old). I ordered a new  $30 converter . Plugged in the new converter & all lights work as designed!

I hope this may help someone trying to solve a wiring nightmare.

Danner
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2017, 08:37:44 PM »

Andrew Preston who is now back with Bushtec brother Lewis owns Electrical Connection so he is very well versed with any wiring systems needed to mate a Bushtec trailer to any type of vehicle. 

For those of you that don't know the Preston family made Bushtecs famous.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 08:39:41 PM by Chains »
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2017, 09:28:05 PM »

Dan, what make trailer do you have? I know you have the Bushtec hitch and wiring, but you never said you have a Bushtec trailer.

Mike
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 08:27:22 AM »

I have a new Harbor Freight Tag-Along 16 cubic foot trailer.  As it stands right now for the trailer alone, I have invested about $320.00.  The bike hitch and wiring is more than the trailer...  ;D  ;D  ;D



First of all, the two harnesses from Kuryakyn came in yesterday.  I had purchased the "T" harness from Bushtec to plug into my '09 SERG wiring rear harness.  It has a small square 4-wire plug.  In those 4 wires are tail, LT, RT and brake.  Both the universal power isolator harness and the 5 to 4 converter harness has the same 4-wire plug.  The wire colors in the "T" harness from Bushtec do not match the Kuryakyn universal harness, but the pin out was identical after testing.  The Kuryakyn wiring harnesses both had what I always known as the GM or automotive wiring code, yellow LT, green RT and brown Tail, plus there's a separate blue wire for brakes.

My new 5 to 4 converter plugged into the "T" harness and then I did a test of the output of the converter with power from the bike.  All tail and turn worked great.  When I had the LT on and then hit the brakes, the RT came on very low and the LT kept blinking.  I hoped that the "low" voltage signal would be enough to trigger the relays in the power isolator harness.

I then plugged the vehicle side universal power isolator harness into the output side of the converter harness.  It was all plug and play for these to my "T" harness.  I then ran temporary power/ground jumpers to the power isolator harness and did a bike power test.  Amazing, I now have LT/Brake, RT/Brake and tail plus ground.  So tonight I will splice in my flat 4-wire harness that matches my trailer flat 4.

On the trailer, I've read many reviews, mostly from the Goldwing forums, about the Harbor Freight Tag Along trailers.  And honestly they were all pretty good.  Some had just pumped grease into the zerk on the wheel hubs, others changed bearings and packed them before running and other did that plus upgraded to 12" wheels/tires.

I was going to swap out bearings, but the ones that were recommended would not fit my hubs.  So I decided to use my ole Quaker State H/D wheel bearing grease and repack the original bearings after a complete cleaning and inspection.  I drove out all of the races and while cleaning the hubs, I found quite a bit of "glitter" type metal shavings in the hub bearing areas.  I cleaned the hubs and inspected/cleaned the races and pressed them back into the hubs.  I then degreased the bearings and did a quick inspection for roller finish.  I found the metric bearings to look quite nice with a good micro polish on the rollers.  I hand packed all four bearings and reinstalled the seals with a bit of grease on them as well.

All back together and the hubs felt really good.  The 8" wheels/tires I have are of a brand that seems to have a good rep on the Internet.  They rated at almost 90 mph and have a load rating of high 500's per tire.  The weight of the trailer is about 150# and I'll not load more than 200#, chairs, cooler speaker etc.  So for now I'll ride the speed limits with the trailer and monitor the tires/hubs for heat.

I'm also lengthening the tongue about 16".  I will be using a couple pieces of threaded rod welded to the underside of the tongue in the new short section under the front side of the trailer.  I'll bolt on the spare there as it's almost over the axle and will add very little tongue weight.  I'm also welding up a front cooler mount so I can keep the inside for gear etc.  For now I'm going to go with just the plain 1-7/8" ball and non-swivel stock hitch.  When I have more time and review what some of you guys have for hitches, I plan to make up a swivel hitch extension for the tongue.  We have all the bar stock, angle, and rods here along with lathes that I can use to make it up.

The trailer seems to be well built and came with LED lights and pre-wired, or close to it.  Later I'll probably add a couple more lights to the upper portion of the enclosure and remount the plate higher as well.  But for this trip I'll keep is simple.

According to many posts in forums, the going tongue length to wheel track is: Tongue is 1.5 / 2 times the length of the track width.  With the extension, I'll be in that range.  They also say that the preferred tongue weight is 7.5% to 15% of the gross trailer weight.  So I think I'll be shooting for a ball weight of around 30# to 40#.

I've added stainless tie down eyelets, 4 on the bottom and 4 side eyes.  I also have an unused cargo net from an older SUV that we've never used.  It's adjustable so we can tighten it up to hold things more steady inside the cargo box.  The cargo box has two over-center side latches and a lock latch to secure the lid.  It has two gas struts and they seem to work well.  I bought a couple LED lights from Northern Tool that look like house wall switches and I'll double stick tape them to the inside of the lid for lights when needed.

So for now guys, it looks like this newbie has a plan.  Probably not a good plan, but at least a plan.

I'll probably be reselling the Bushtec power isolator with its flat 6-wire weather pack connector.  It will also have the later rectangular "T" harness.  The harness came off a '12 Ultra so I'm not sure how many years it fits.

I really appreciate all the effort everyone has put forth in getting me up to speed on the trailer and wiring questions.

So for Linda and I, we will be leaving for ES on the 3rd.  Should be there in the early afternoon, depending on how many places she wants to stop.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 08:32:49 AM by Dan_Lockwood »
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2017, 09:34:59 AM »

Dan, did you use both springs on each side of the trailer? I used only one spring on each side and that made for a softer ride with less hop. The HF trailer was rated 890 lbs with 2 springs per side and 500+ lbs with 1 spring per side. I also lowered air pressure to 22 to 25 PSI in the tires and up to 40 PSI depending on the load. This also helps with wheel hop. I really enjoy my HF trailer.
Mike
 :drink:
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Yellow09SERG

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 10:56:36 AM »

Sure glad it all worked out for you Dan. Amazing what they can make happen with a resistor or diode here and there.

No experience with the Harbor Freight trailer but bet it will work just fine. Trailer sure opens up a whole new world
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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2017, 11:42:50 AM »

Glad it all came together for you. I think you will enjoy having a trailer.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Bushtec 6 Wire To 4 Wire
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2017, 02:50:30 PM »

Dan, did you use both springs on each side of the trailer? I used only one spring on each side and that made for a softer ride with less hop. The HF trailer was rated 890 lbs with 2 springs per side and 500+ lbs with 1 spring per side. I also lowered air pressure to 22 to 25 PSI in the tires and up to 40 PSI depending on the load. This also helps with wheel hop. I really enjoy my HF trailer.
Mike
 :drink:

I think you have the next trailer up from mine.  I think you started out with a HF utility trailer and they do have more load capacity.

Mine is rated at 600# if pulled behind a car/truck and 200# if pulled behind a motorcycle.  So my springs may be weaker than yours to begin with.  Right now I have the tires at 40 psi, but may drop them to 35'ish and see how that works out.

I'll plop my fat butt in it this weekend and bounce around a bit and see what it looks like.

I'm happy with the way the hitch ended up fitting.  I had to cut the rear horseshoe off the Bushtec and make my own to extend back 1" more per their guy over the phone.  It all fits nicely and from the rear you can only see about 3/4" of the receiver hanging down below the rear fender, I'm good with that.

Again, I appreciate the advise and help with this.

Hope you all have a great Memorial Weekend.
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