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Author Topic: When to replace Lifters on 110.  (Read 5140 times)

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roadrunner

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When to replace Lifters on 110.
« on: September 05, 2017, 08:40:23 AM »

Hello all,

I have a 2015 cvo rg with 7k plus (still under warranty) miles and am looking for suggestions on when to replace the stock Lifters and should I go with s&s or se?

While they are in the should I upgrade the cam (SE585) and upgrade the cam back plate?

Currently have fullsac dx pipe and tts tune.

Cheers and thanks in advance!
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rigidthumper

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 08:49:05 AM »

While the stock lifters should be good for a while, I'd replace them this winter for peace of mind. The S&S lifters are a proven good product, not so with the SE lifters.  The SE585 cam need a little more than stock compression to shine- if you want to stay with stock compression, and just elevate the curve, TTS100 cam will do that. If you want more midrange power, and are willing to change compression, then there are a lot of choices available to you. The first one that comes to mind is the SE117 drop on cylinders & pistons, combined with a TTS150 cam. Very snappy.
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Ridgerunr

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 09:01:03 AM »

"When to replace lifters on a 110"

Before it leaves the dealer. ;)
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 09:13:24 AM »

The day after it goes out of warranty!


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smkymtnboy

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 09:35:12 AM »

The day after it goes out of warranty!


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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 11:45:14 AM »

If you ask me, do it now. I am still waiting for my bike to be repaired after lifter failed at 8000 miles.

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 12:11:44 PM »

Today.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 02:09:13 PM »

I just returned home from Colorado.  At 19,800 miles my 2014 tapped from Ouray to Montrose..  Then noise went away.  Rode 1200 miles home.  Ran fine but had clatter on cold start. Kept looking for U-Haul places to get home if need be.  Made it home. Pulled drain plug and had metal-never had metal before.  Removed lifters and 1 front lifter had needle bearings missing and roller was intact and round and not flat spotted.  Metal in oil filter and thru out engine but no glitter in top end when I removed rocker arms to install rocker lockers. Now installing S&S premium lifters and reinstalling stock push rods.  Will ride about 30 miles to make sure ok and then change oil and filter again before heading for Maggie Valley.  Know I am taking a big chance in not tearing it down further to get rid of debris and to look at cams and oil pump.

My 2010 had lifter needle bearing failure at 28,000 miles.  I do not ride hard, do not lug and always keep above 2200 rpm's, and use Redline 20W50 motorcycle oil and K&N oil filters changed regularly.   

We are stupid to let Harley get by with this.  No new Harley's in my future.  It's truly a crying shame.  If they offered a 5 year warranty like the new Yamaha, the sum bitches would be out of business.    :soapbox:

The sad thing is for the first 8,000 miles it was the quietest Harley motor I had owned outside of a 2003 Fatboy with a 88..
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 02:23:16 PM by Boatman »
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »

I just returned home from Colorado.  At 19,800 miles my 2014 tapped from Ouray to Montrose..  Then noise went away.  Rode 1200 miles home.  Ran fine but had clatter on cold start. Kept looking for U-Haul places to get home if need be.  Made it home. Pulled drain plug and had metal-never had metal before.  Removed lifters and 1 front lifter had needle bearings missing and roller was intact and round and not flat spotted.  Metal in oil filter and thru out engine but no glitter in top end when I removed rocker arms to install rocker lockers. Now installing S&S premium lifters and reinstalling stock push rods.  Will ride about 30 miles to make sure ok and then change oil and filter again before heading for Maggie Valley.  Know I am taking a big chance in not tearing it down further to get rid of debris and to look at cams and oil pump.

My 2010 had lifter needle bearing failure at 28,000 miles.  I do not ride hard, do not lug and always keep above 2200 rpm's, and use Redline 20W50 motorcycle oil and K&N oil filters changed regularly.   

We are stupid to let Harley get by with this.  No new Harley's in my future.  It's truly a crying shame.  If they offered a 5 year warranty like the new Yamaha, the sum bitches would be out of business.    :soapbox:

The sad thing is for the first 8,000 miles it was the quietest Harley motor I had owned outside of a 2003 Fatboy with a 88..

The least I would do is drop the oil pan and clean it.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:19:48 PM by DCFIREMANN »
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TN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 09:46:22 PM »

Hate to hear this Bob, deal with it and be done. I ain't no master tech myself but DCFIREMAN makes a good point, maybe even flush the oil cooler too. You doing the wrenching yourself?

Good luck

TN
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Twolanerider

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 09:59:02 PM »

Don't cut such obvious corners Bob.  Please.  It'll strand your ass on the side of the road somewhere (if you're lucky) or lock up and plant your ass on the road somewhere (if you're really unlucky).  Mike, Phil, the whole crowd; we don't want to see your ass in any way misplaced.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 10:27:31 PM »

Maybe I was just lucky.  Replaced my lifters with S&S premium the month after warranty ran out at 20k miles.  Still a very noisy valve train.  Stock lifters looked ok when they came out and never seen any metal on drain plugs.
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TN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 10:29:20 PM »

This extended oil plug came to mind in a case like this, of course the dealers will say there isn't a need but....the end piece is a rare earth magnet, it gets up to where the oil is actually circulating, of course it will only capture ferrous material. Drag specialty part.

It'll help balance the chi of the bike too.  :D

TN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2017, 10:56:42 PM »

One thing is for sure, after being on this forum for the past year I have learned that it is best to err on the side of caution when it comes to these 110s. Sooner, the better. That being said, I am about ready for my 5k service and will be having the lifters swapped then.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 11:16:29 PM »

This extended oil plug came to mind in a case like this, of course the dealers will say there isn't a need but....the end piece is a rare earth magnet, it gets up to where the oil is actually circulating, of course it will only capture ferrous material. Drag specialty part.

It'll help balance the chi of the bike too.  :D

TN

My bike has a chi? 

WTF is a chi and how can I tell if it's out of balance?   ???
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smkymtnboy

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 11:21:48 PM »

My bike has a chi? 

WTF is a chi and how can I tell if it's out of balance?   ???
twolane no need to check!! yours is definitely out of balance.  :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :nixweiss:
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CHH_Badkarma

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2017, 11:24:19 PM »

My bike has a chi? 

WTF is a chi and how can I tell if it's out of balance?   ???
If is says Harley Davidson on it, it is likely out of balance  ;D
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Twolanerider

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2017, 11:41:57 PM »

twolane no need to check!! yours is definitely out of balance.  :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :nixweiss:

Just checked the websites for Hunter, Weaver, and a few others. Not a chi balancer in site.....
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smkymtnboy

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 11:50:07 PM »

Just checked the websites for Hunter, Weaver, and a few others. Not a chi balancer in site.....
sir,proceed slowly! unbalanced chi ahead! :o
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 06:37:22 AM »

Phillip (TN), I am doing the work at home.  2Lane Don and DC I appreciate your input.  Thanks everyone.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 08:34:18 AM »

This extended oil plug came to mind in a case like this, of course the dealers will say there isn't a need but....the end piece is a rare earth magnet, it gets up to where the oil is actually circulating, of course it will only capture ferrous material. Drag specialty part.

It'll help balance the chi of the bike too.  :D

TN

Of course people with lowered bikes will have to jack the bike up to remove or install that longer plug.  Does a floor jack come with it?

Jerry ;)
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 08:38:57 AM »


In all seriousness, considering how some Harley dealers and service reps are jerks and a-holes, if your bike is still in warranty you might want to think long and hard about replacing parts like lifters with aftermarket parts.  Even if the aftermarket part isn't what causes a related failure, you can count on H-D using your aftermarket parts as an excuse to refuse to pay for the repair. 

Jerry
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roadrunner

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 08:48:09 AM »

In all seriousness, considering how some Harley dealers and service reps are jerks and a-holes, if your bike is still in warranty you might want to think long and hard about replacing parts like lifters with aftermarket parts.  Even if the aftermarket part isn't what causes a related failure, you can count on H-D using your aftermarket parts as an excuse to refuse to pay for the repair. 

Jerry
Good advice,  2yr factory warranty expires 2/18, and then the 5yr extended warranty kicks in.

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« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:54:22 AM by roadrunner »
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TN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 08:50:00 AM »

Of course people with lowered bikes will have to jack the bike up to remove or install that longer plug.  Does a floor jack come with it?

Jerry ;)

My oil drain plug is horizontal so no worries there. I do not recommend installing it in any other hole, maybe.

Bob, I hope you disassemble the camchest too, maybe even new inner cam bearings while yer in there.  :nixweiss:

TN
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TN

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 08:52:32 AM »

My bike has a chi? 

WTF is a chi and how can I tell if it's out of balance?   ???

Twolane, yer bike most definitely has chi.  :bananarock: you'd know if it's out of balance, possibly.

TN

Only the HD digital tech has the yin/yang feature   :drink:

Eureka, I got it  :bananarock:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 05:26:09 PM by TN »
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 06:54:15 PM »

Twolane, yer bike most definitely has chi.  :bananarock: you'd know if it's out of balance, possibly.

TN

Only the HD digital tech has the yin/yang feature   :drink:

Eureka, I got it  :bananarock:


Just hate it when know must be missing a good tool.....  ???
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2017, 01:22:44 PM »

Dealer replaced mine at 6500 as a precautionary measure due the suspect motor noise. Unfortunately they messed something up and the bike keeps blowing oil out the pushrod seals due to some type of high pressure (this has happened 3x). First they blamed that the technician overfilled the oil, second they replaced the seals, third they blamed a seal in the head from the factory. Not sure why it did not do this prior before they replaced the lifters.

Ugh - dealeships
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2017, 03:29:11 PM »

My 2010 FLHXSE just turned 60K miles. In independent shop replacing inner cam bearings, cam plate, oil pump, cam chains and tensioners (lifters upgraded to S&S Premium at 45K miles). As long as the cam chest is apart may as well replace worn parts now (parts relatively inexpensive) rather than wait until something grenades causing major headache. Also replacing 2nd compensator that just started kicking back a bit. Hopefully bike will be good for another $60K miles even if I might not be.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »

Dealer replaced mine at 6500 as a precautionary measure due the suspect motor noise. Unfortunately they messed something up and the bike keeps blowing oil out the pushrod seals due to some type of high pressure (this has happened 3x). First they blamed that the technician overfilled the oil, second they replaced the seals, third they blamed a seal in the head from the factory. Not sure why it did not do this prior before they replaced the lifters.

Ugh - dealeships

Sounds like they somehow blocked the motor from venting and it's building up pressure. may be wrong here, I can you when they are improperly vented they don't like it...Just a long shot check backplate make sure it si venting, Make damn sure you have  a good clean filter   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 05:40:16 PM by Texas 103 »
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 04:10:56 PM »

It seemed to happen with the same scenario. Highway speeds around 3k RPM.
Just got her back. Will see how she runs. Very frustrating.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2017, 09:28:20 AM »

 I am in the process of rebuilding my motor due to a grenading lifter after 33.5k miles, going 80 on the slab. I was planning to use the highlift Johnson b,2313 SE lifters. However, they have been on back order for five weeks already and now they are telling me it will be another four weeks. What is the best alternative ?

It sounds like the S&S premium lifters are popular.  I was also considering BGM lifters, the new ones with the bronze rollers that have no roller bearings. Thoughts?  How many miles should I expect to get out of either of those before needing to replace them?   Can you provide a link to the pats please. Thanks so much in advance. By the way, my short block, 117 Kit,  And capacity oil pan have arrived. I’ve been waiting for the darn lifters.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2017, 09:44:19 AM »

Not so sure about the Johnson's anymore.  I just had major work done to my motor and used the ~$65 a set Johnson's.  One of them was bad from the get-go.  Went with the $$S&S Premiums to replace them.

A helicopter has a "Jesus nut" that holds the rotors on top of the shaft...

Twin Cams have a Jesus nut too, we call them lifters.

If you want to use Johnson's, get them from AMS.   https://www.amsmotomachine.com/index.php/top-harley-parts
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2017, 09:50:37 AM »

I stock them, the B2313-SE
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2017, 10:22:48 AM »

I stock them, the B2313-SE

The AMS versions? 
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2017, 10:40:17 AM »

I buy them from Topline
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »

I buy them from Topline
Thanks for the quick responses.  After talking with several distributors of the b2313se and hearing about the mfg problems I lost some faith in them. I decided to put the coin down on the Jims Powerglide Steady roll 1827.  Expensive, but the reliability expectations are high (no needle bearings to fail) and I don’t want to get stranded far from home again.  >:(
They should be here on Wednesday so the build can finally begin.   8)
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HD Street Performance

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2017, 03:48:17 PM »

I have had no issues and know of nobody else that has either. I do not sell their lower end replacement lifter just the slow bleed version with axle oiling.
In fact the Jims have always been a product that has shown issues over the years.
I sincerley hope you don't have any issues with yours.
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Rooster

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 01:45:14 PM »

I have 2 sets of Jim's lifters. One set pulled out replaced with HD B's without miles. And one set I ran 1000 miles and replaced with HD B's again. All I can say is the Jim's lifters are way noisy compared. And I don't trust them I don't care how great Jim's says they are.
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 02:25:11 PM »

The last version of the SE lifter (SE version of the "B" lifter made in USA by Delphi) is as good as I've used.  I believe this is the same spec as the current S&S premium (without the travel limiter).
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johnsachs

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 06:14:13 PM »

I have had no issues and know of nobody else that has either. I do not sell their lower end replacement lifter just the slow bleed version with axle oiling.
In fact the Jims have always been a product that has shown issues over the years.
I sincerley hope you don't have any issues with yours.
I agree with Don on the Jim's lifters. I've thrown out more sets than I can count from customer's bikes over the years.   ::)
John
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bigchuck

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 11:25:39 PM »

The day after it goes out of warranty!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly
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wtfdskin

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 11:39:18 PM »

While on vaction, stopped at Outer Banks HD, wandered around with my eagle riders sweatshirt on. Guy at the parts counter / service desk asked it I had a CVO and what year. Told him 2012 and he says..."Something to keep an eye on with those 110's....."

I finished his sentence for him with one word. Lifters. He just smiled, pulled out some from 2 bikes they just changed out. Around 25k on both bikes. Said it took them a week to diagnose where the squealing was coming from. Lol.

Anyhow, stated the replace them with fueling brand now. Thought that was odd for a HD shop.

13k on mine. Putting in S&S premiums over the winter along with rocker lockers and inner cam bearing.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 11:43:54 PM »

A week? If he new anything about 110's he would have checked lifters first thing.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2017, 02:35:25 AM »

I am just shy of hitting 5k on my breakout and when she goes in for the 5k service S&S lifters are going in.
Better safe than sorry. Just consider them a sacrificial part.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 08:53:16 AM »


It probably would have been a good idea if Harley had just abandoned hydraulic roller lifters for the 110's and went back to the good ol' days of flat solids.  Probably not much noisier than the "C" lifter internals they use with the stock lifters, and no roller to fail.  They could also add valve lash adjustments to the maintenance schedule to help the dealers pad their service department profits.

Jerry ;)
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smkymtnboy

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 09:31:13 AM »

It probably would have been a good idea if Harley had just abandoned hydraulic roller lifters for the 110's and went back to the good ol' days of flat solids.  Probably not much noisier than the "C" lifter internals they use with the stock lifters, and no roller to fail.  They could also add valve lash adjustments to the maintenance schedule to help the dealers pad their service department profits.

Jerry ;)
agreed!!
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Eqcons

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2017, 09:53:36 AM »

Back in 2011 I fitted Feuling FE4000 lifters with adjustable pushrods to my then 110, and took it to 25000 miles, sold in 2014.  Saw it resold at the dealers recently, with 36000 on the clock and lifters are still fine.  I think I may go for these for my current bike (now on 12000 miles) but I'll just re-use the existing stock pushrods - enough dismantling is possible with the tank off.
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wtfdskin

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 10:08:44 AM »

A week? If he new anything about 110's he would have checked lifters first thing.
Exactly what I thought too. The death squeal should have gave it away. But in their defense I dont think OBX HD does much service work due to their location.
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johnsachs

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2017, 06:16:10 PM »

It probably would have been a good idea if Harley had just abandoned hydraulic roller lifters for the 110's and went back to the good ol' days of flat solids.  Probably not much noisier than the "C" lifter internals they use with the stock lifters, and no roller to fail.  They could also add valve lash adjustments to the maintenance schedule to help the dealers pad their service department profits.

Jerry ;)
Buyers are complaining now? With todays oils and solids that are notoriously noisy, + having to adjust frequently, I wouldn't recommend solids. :nixweiss:
John
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2017, 09:03:39 PM »

I agree with Don on the Jim's lifters. I've thrown out more sets than I can count from customer's bikes over the years.   ::)
John
Perfect. You’ve convinced me to cancel my Jims order and place an order with Don for the B2313SE set. :huepfenlol2: I hope you still have them in stock, Don. Can you ship them tomorrow?  They’ve already begun the build and may be ready for them on Friday.

Thanks for all the input!
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2017, 10:10:13 PM »

Buyers are complaining now? With todays oils and solids that are notoriously noisy, + having to adjust frequently, I wouldn't recommend solids. :nixweiss:
John

That wink emoji  ;) is a tip off that my post was tongue-in-cheek John.  Today's consumers most likely wouldn't have any appreciation for the mechanical noise (even if it isn't all that much worse than some Harley's with hydraulics I've heard), and would likely also have no clue about the amount of maintenance solids entail.  You have to admit though, they would eliminate those roller failures. :)

Jerry
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2018, 01:17:13 AM »

Just thinking about mine.    Mine seems to be much more noticeable when I start it up and it's still cold.   Is that normal?    I have only 21k.  Maybe it's about time I start thinking about replacing mine on the rg.  I'm all stock with no upgrades to speak of.  Any thing else I should be thinking about?    Thanks.  Stuart.
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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2018, 07:28:23 AM »

In all seriousness, considering how some Harley dealers and service reps are jerks and a-holes, if your bike is still in warranty you might want to think long and hard about replacing parts like lifters with aftermarket parts.  Even if the aftermarket part isn't what causes a related failure, you can count on H-D using your aftermarket parts as an excuse to refuse to pay for the repair. 

Jerry

Will using non moco lifters void extended warranty also or just original factory warranty?
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »

Just thinking about mine.    Mine seems to be much more noticeable when I start it up and it's still cold.   Is that normal?    I have only 21k.  Maybe it's about time I start thinking about replacing mine on the rg.  I'm all stock with no upgrades to speak of.  Any thing else I should be thinking about?    Thanks.  Stuart.

If you're hearing new or unusual noise it's a good idea to replace the lifters.  Most guys like to upgrade the inner camshaft bearings at the same time.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: When to replace Lifters on 110.
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2018, 10:10:25 AM »

15k miles, reasonable and proactive. Lower spring pressure and then this can be extended.
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