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[LB1369]

Was researching tuners and saw a pro series for sale At the end it said VIN will be provided to buyer WTF? Isn’t the vin recorded in the ecm?? Is he alluding that you can use a married tuner on another bike? That’s not possible is it?

[hdnik]

Correct. What he is selling cannot be used on your bike.

[rigidthumper]

The tuner doesn't marry to the VIN number- it marries to a specific ECM- are they selling an unmarried tuner or tuner & ECM combo?

[LB1369]

Nope just the tuner The only reason I asked about vin is when you plug a tuner into the Aldl on a 4 wheel vehicle it shows the vin to said vehicle I’ll probably install the Reaper and see what happens If throttle response is good and no popping on decel I’ll wait on tuner til I do the cam swap and head work Thanks for the help guys!

[timo482]

tuners married to a e c m have zero resale value - folks selling used tuners are scamming

*sigh*

[grc]

I'll offer one caveat to the "can't be used on another bike" statements.  SOME systems can in fact be used on more than one bike if you buy additional licenses.  I'm pretty sure TTS offers that ability as well as PV.  I still think in this instance the seller is trying to run a scam, but who knows.  Btw, if you combine the price a seller asks for a used tuning device and the price the maker of that device charges for using it on another bike, you might find you wouldn't be saving much.

Jerry

[98fxstc]

tuners married to a e c m have zero resale value - folks selling used tuners are scamming

*sigh*

Not so
Fella in Australia does them
I know a few who have had the SE vci's reset for use on a second bike

[havenolife]

I saw that guy on e bay sell those from down under and just new it was a scam

[98fxstc]

I saw that guy on e bay sell those from down under and just new it was a scam

NO
Its not a scam
They can be re used
I know guys who have them working

[grc]

NO
Its not a scam
They can be re used
I know guys who have them working

What he's doing is illegal, so yes it is a scam.  He's basically dealing in stolen goods, since he didn't buy them from Harley and just found a way to play with the electronics to erase all signs of previous use.

Jerry

[98fxstc]

What he's doing is illegal, so yes it is a scam.  He's basically dealing in stolen goods, since he didn't buy them from Harley and just found a way to play with the electronics to erase all signs of previous use.

Jerry

Why is it illegal ?

[grc]

It's illegal because the product is sold to be used on only one bike/ecm, and the folks doing this are taking units that have been used previously and hacking the electronics, then selling them to someone else.  Now that Harley is no longer allowed to be in the SERT business, I don't imagine they will seek out and sue these people out of existence, but that doesn't make what they do legal.  To some people like me supporting thieves isn't an option, to others it's not a consideration.  To each his own, I just thought I'd let everyone know these are illegally modified parts and not just a pile of unsold leftovers from Harley.

Jerry

[98fxstc]

It's illegal because the product is sold to be used on only one bike/ecm, and the folks doing this are taking units that have been used previously and hacking the electronics, then selling them to someone else.  Now that Harley is no longer allowed to be in the SERT business, I don't imagine they will seek out and sue these people out of existence, but that doesn't make what they do legal.  To some people like me supporting thieves isn't an option, to others it's not a consideration.  To each his own, I just thought I'd let everyone know these are illegally modified parts and not just a pile of unsold leftovers from Harley.

Jerry

I have not seen this in writing
Show me

I know one guy who had to replace a faulty ecm in his bike and the SE tuner no longer able to function as intended
He paid $150 to have the vci refurbished and he is back in business
You contend that this is illegal as well ?

[98fxstc]

Jerry
We occasionally see the owner of a write-off selling the SE tuner with the ecm
No modification to the vci required
Is this illegal ?
It is certainly not the single use you believe is intended.
I guess all of those parts in the bike were intended for single use but they may all be recycled legally

What about the owner of a salvage shop selling parts from a wreck ?
Is he bound by any licence conditions the original owner may have been party too ?
Many of those parts sold may be modified and re-used including vci's

Many of these SE tuners are being used to upgrade the tune and performance in late model bikes in breach of EPA regulations.
Its OK as long as you use a new SE tuner and not a hacked one ?

The MoCo sold SE slip-ons and mufflers 'for off-road use only' for many years knowing they were being used illegally but that was OK because the MoCo was making a dollar out of it ?

Illegal modifications to HD parts ?
How many remove the catalytic converters from mufflers and header pipes to improve performance ?

Is your bike still stock Jerry ?
You still running factory AFR ?

You have any friends who have modified their intake and exhaust and no longer comply with EPA ?
These pages are full of details of those projects.

You better get them all back on the right side of the law so you can sleep at night.

Any kind of modification is OK except for modifying a SE vci for a second use because the MoCo will miss out on a dollar ?
Bikers have been making and modifying their own parts for years rather than buying from the MoCo

Your principles are confused Jerry.

[grc]

Feel free to do whatever you want.  I didn't come here to argue with you or anyone else, I just stated a fact for those who weren't aware.

To some people it is also perfectly acceptable to buy pirated first run movie DVD's out of a guys trunk at the local flea market or shopping center.  Since I'm not in law enforcement I don't worry about it, but that doesn't mean I buy such items or encourage others to do so.  Some people have ethical values, some do not.  I know which category I fall in, everyone else is free to do as they please.  I'm most assuredly not confused when it comes to this.

Jerry

[hdnik]

Feel free to do whatever you want.  I didn't come here to argue with you or anyone else, I just stated a fact for those who weren't aware.

To some people it is also perfectly acceptable to buy pirated first run movie DVD's out of a guys trunk at the local flea market or shopping center.  Since I'm not in law enforcement I don't worry about it, but that doesn't mean I buy such items or encourage others to do so.  Some people have ethical values, some do not.  I know which category I fall in, everyone else is free to do as they please.  I'm most assuredly not confused when it comes to this.

Jerry

X2

[CJB2011]

AMEN Jerry. You are right on point. As a retired LEO, I find more people are on the right side of the law. LEO have more things to deal with than this. Thanks for the information

[skratch]

Jerry
We occasionally see the owner of a write-off selling the SE tuner with the ecm
No modification to the vci required
Is this illegal ?
It is certainly not the single use you believe is intended.
I guess all of those parts in the bike were intended for single use but they may all be recycled legally

What about the owner of a salvage shop selling parts from a wreck ?
Is he bound by any licence conditions the original owner may have been party too ?
Many of those parts sold may be modified and re-used including vci's

Many of these SE tuners are being used to upgrade the tune and performance in late model bikes in breach of EPA regulations.
Its OK as long as you use a new SE tuner and not a hacked one ?

The MoCo sold SE slip-ons and mufflers 'for off-road use only' for many years knowing they were being used illegally but that was OK because the MoCo was making a dollar out of it ?

Illegal modifications to HD parts ?
How many remove the catalytic converters from mufflers and header pipes to improve performance ?

Is your bike still stock Jerry ?
You still running factory AFR ?

You have any friends who have modified their intake and exhaust and no longer comply with EPA ?
These pages are full of details of those projects.

You better get them all back on the right side of the law so you can sleep at night.

Any kind of modification is OK except for modifying a SE vci for a second use because the MoCo will miss out on a dollar ?
Bikers have been making and modifying their own parts for years rather than buying from the MoCo

Your principles are confused Jerry.

no, i don't see his principles as confused at all.  for one thing, you're comparing apples to grapes.  the tuner is married to that ecm.  if the ecm is sold with the tuner, not a breach of ethics.  if you can't tell the difference between 'hacking' a se tuner and someone buying a used luggage rack, then you've got bigger problems.

as far as seeing it in writing, all one has to do is to look at the se catalog or the instruction sheet for the tuner.  i've included a screen shot for you....

[Twolanerider]

Maybe, just maybe, but not likely, looking at the same question from another and more selfish perspective would make a difference.  Yet another reason I won't buy from someone who is obviously (or, worse, trying to be subtle about it) doing something they should not be with a product is that someone who would do that in the front end of a transaction is exactly the type who would lie to, evade warranty with or just outright take the money and run from a customer at the back end of a transaction.  You're just begging to get screwed.

[98fxstc]

OK
I haven't seen that attachment before
interesting
the notice seems as much a warning about the limited use of the vci and not specifically a legal threat
and it is wrong in fact
the vci locks to the ecm not the vehicle
the vci can be used with another vehicle if the ecm is transplanted to the vehicle

I suspect the threat of legal action is something perpetuated by Dealers to discourage tinkering and protect their sales
and it seems to have its desired effect on the sheep