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Author Topic: to aerocharge or not  (Read 1364 times)

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goop

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to aerocharge or not
« on: December 18, 2017, 09:23:41 AM »

im in the middle of doing a 124 build with all the goodies. i need to make the decision if i want to add an aerocharger or keep it naturally asperated. would using an aerocharger be easier on the motor, as now the compression will be lower. without aerocharger im going to be in the 140hp and tq but with the charger ill be around 180hp and tq. what do you guys think
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DesertHOG

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 10:01:38 AM »

im in the middle of doing a 124 build with all the goodies. i need to make the decision if i want to add an aerocharger or keep it naturally asperated. would using an aerocharger be easier on the motor, as now the compression will be lower. without aerocharger im going to be in the 140hp and tq but with the charger ill be around 180hp and tq. what do you guys think

Well, you are building a hot rod. It seems that you would push a hot rod. Regular compression vs high compression won't make much difference (IMHO) if you put a SuperCharger on your V-Twin. Also, if you are going to supercharge then you should be looking at modifying your bottom end to accompany the supercharger.

I have a 103" with a SuperCharger putting out 142hp. It don't go any faster it just gets you there quicker. If you want to go faster and not worry about blowing out the bottom end, get the bottom end work done. I run mine tame and did not get mods to the bottom end.

Best of luck and remember, it's only money.

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goop

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 10:22:00 AM »

yes i am having a p3r crank installed. with timkin bearings. i am not skimping on this build. just not sure if i want to run a charger or not. im worried about the unpredicted. giving too much throttle and breaking the tire loose when i dont want it to.
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DesertHOG

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 10:56:03 AM »

yes i am having a p3r crank installed. with timkin bearings. i am not skimping on this build. just not sure if i want to run a charger or not. im worried about the unpredicted. giving too much throttle and breaking the tire loose when i dont want it to.

Well, that's never happened to me but I have never tried to really pop it off the line. If you can resist the urge, you'll be okay. I will say that the charger does thrill and you will get down the road much faster to whatever top end speed you can achieve.

One last consideration, you can count on your fuel efficiency, if you have any at all, to go out the window. My Supercharged 2009 Road Glide has a 6 gallon tank on it. My maximum range is 120 miles before I am on fumes. So expect that you have a really nice bar hopper but will be better off towing the rocket sled if you have a destination more than a few hundred miles away.

Simon
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DesertHOG

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 10:57:28 AM »

.
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BigLew

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 11:51:21 AM »

Yeah what Simon said. My 124 is a stock S&S at 204/178 and the charger adds some additional wear and tear on and off boost. Make sure there is a good wrench close by.

BigLew
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goop

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 02:53:03 PM »

nice bike, thats a cool paint job
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johnsachs

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 06:28:44 PM »

Do the Aerocharger install. You'll be happy you did.
If you don't beat on the bike every minute, you'll be ok. Definitely will break the tire loose whenever you want it to. Instant boost, NO lag.
I've done at least 20 +, Evos, and Twin Cams back in the early 2000's, when First Choice had the franchise. One of the best power adders available.
John
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 06:32:05 PM by johnsachs »
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goop

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 06:56:35 PM »

Will the gas mileage be that bad if I'm cruising at 80mph.
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DesertHOG

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 12:25:19 AM »

Will the gas mileage be that bad if I'm cruising at 80mph.

My experience is about 20mpg. YMMV.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 12:57:09 PM by DesertHOG »
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hrdtail78

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 12:37:50 PM »

Do it.  Force induction is cool and a great bang for the buck.

On performance and fuel mileage.  Unfortunately it is a bit of give and take with what is out there.

The Tmax is a great option because it will deal with boosted pressure and a 2 bar MAP sensor.  This is a great way to deal with making power runs under boost.  The trade off is that AFR and timing is based on throttle position, and how the timing tables are set up.  It is a bit harder to have timing optimal for different rpms, and the worst case timing strategy is what you got.  Meaning that 50% throttle at 3500 roll on will need one thing and 50% at 3500 steady will need something else.  The lower of the two (roll on) is what it is going to take.  This will affect the efficiency at steady state.

A flash base (not the factory one) does not have a 2bar and doesn't know any difference with any boost over 100 kpa.  With the tables that we do have access to.  We can address the boosted areas.  We just don't have the fine tuning capabilities during boost.  On the other hand.  Steady state and cruising areas do get all the advantages that come along with the Delphi FI system.  Including factory closed loop control and MAP based AFR command and timing.  Since this is based on load and not throttle position.  It is still possible to get mileage in the 40's and run efficient on long trips.

Which one is the best option?  Depends on what you want.   Good luck.
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johnsachs

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 06:10:11 PM »

Will the gas mileage be that bad if I'm cruising at 80mph.
You pick up so much power and torque, that it will enable you to gear the bike taller for almost no loss in fuel economy.  ;D
John
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Unbalanced

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 06:25:42 PM »

Do it.  Force induction is cool and a great bang for the buck.

On performance and fuel mileage.  Unfortunately it is a bit of give and take with what is out there.

The Tmax is a great option because it will deal with boosted pressure and a 2 bar MAP sensor.  This is a great way to deal with making power runs under boost.  The trade off is that AFR and timing is based on throttle position, and how the timing tables are set up.  It is a bit harder to have timing optimal for different rpms, and the worst case timing strategy is what you got.  Meaning that 50% throttle at 3500 roll on will need one thing and 50% at 3500 steady will need something else.  The lower of the two (roll on) is what it is going to take.  This will affect the efficiency at steady state.

A flash base (not the factory one) does not have a 2bar and doesn't know any difference with any boost over 100 kpa.  With the tables that we do have access to.  We can address the boosted areas.  We just don't have the fine tuning capabilities during boost.  On the other hand.  Steady state and cruising areas do get all the advantages that come along with the Delphi FI system.  Including factory closed loop control and MAP based AFR command and timing.  Since this is based on load and not throttle position.  It is still possible to get mileage in the 40's and run efficient on long trips.

Which one is the best option?  Depends on what you want.   Good luck.


Jason,

I thought the TTS was capable of using 2 bar map sensor it just required some help from Steve Cole???

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goop

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 08:52:57 PM »

Thanks john
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hrdtail78

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 08:53:27 AM »


Jason,

I thought the TTS was capable of using 2 bar map sensor it just required some help from Steve Cole???

He has it for a couple of years.  I believe 205 level calibration.  A project that was half done and pushed aside because of others more pressing.
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MCE Performance

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2018, 02:03:12 PM »

If you do the bottom end and keep the compression sane, you'll have a
reliable and FUN ride. Fuel mileage?? ha ha. What's that?

I'm working with Two right now. One Aerocharged and one Trask turbo.
I'll let you know what happens and post charts if they don't go boom. lol
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 02:05:47 PM by MCE Performance »
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johnsachs

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2018, 05:58:07 PM »

If you do the bottom end and keep the compression sane, you'll have a
reliable and FUN ride. Fuel mileage?? ha ha. What's that?

I'm working with Two right now. One Aerocharged and one Trask turbo.
I'll let you know what happens and post charts if they don't go boom. lol
Matt,
The boom factor is in the right hand. Kinda like the 80 year old man vs. the 21 year old babe. :oops:
John
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goop

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2018, 11:22:13 AM »

ive decided to do just motor right now. as usual budget got out of control with my build. maybe in a year or 2 i will add an aerocharger. pretty simple change pistons and cams. thanks for all the advise guys
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MCE Performance

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Re: to aerocharge or not
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2018, 12:53:24 PM »

Matt,
The boom factor is in the right hand. Kinda like the 80 year old man vs. the 21 year old babe. :oops:
John
Ain't it the truth. (These guys are in their 60s so they should be old enough to know better. But you
never know. The 20 year old lives within us all. =8))
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