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Author Topic: 113 Muscle Kit installed  (Read 19744 times)

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nidan

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2007, 05:54:30 AM »

TW8 and a 51mm TB
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altugo

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 01:19:41 AM »

Very nice screamin.Could you also post this in fatboy section incase guys might not be checkin here. :drink:
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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 04:10:45 AM »

 :2vrolijk_21: great Numbers  :2vrolijk_21:
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screamin eagle

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2007, 10:11:38 AM »

 I just returned from the Outerbanks HOG Rally and put 895 miles on the 113 and It ran great. I had to put a few people in there place when they thought the could just walk all over my 103 sleeper.  All they saw was my tail light. I sure was worth the money I spent at Zippers.   :pepper: :pepper:
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radavi98

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2007, 12:09:27 PM »

Well I said I would respond more after court and here it is.  I lost the case. But the loss was due to my ignorance in the legal arena.  I did not have a lawyer so, I took the knife to a gunfight.  I will keep this short, but respond if you want more info.


4/03  Paid for Muscle 107 kit built and installed by Zippers  99hp and 115 tq
4/05  Rode to Daytona, lifter shredded causing massive damage.  Well past 1 yr warranty
6/05  Zippers completely rebuilt 107 at discounted rate, allegedly same hp and tq ratings
8/05  Trip to Sturgis, SD bike was sputtering and power was low.  Took to Speeds performance for dyno tuning.  66hp and 92tq.  Called Zippers for assistance, was told to bring back to shop…in Maryland.  Speeds mentioned oil cavitation/circulation most likely the cause.  Zippers stated may be altitude related.  Sturgis altitude approx 4000ft
8/05  Returned from Sturgis and Zippers said repair was made and stated carburator problem
5/06  Trip to Myrtle Beach, SC.  Took to Cycle Solutions for dyno tuning.  Four runs ranging from 56-60 HP and 79-82 TQ. Called Zippers for assistance, was told to bring back to shop…in Maryland.  Altitude was not mentioned. Tuner also mentioned oil cavitation/circulation most likely the cause
6/06  Zippers alleges they fixed the issue and when I requested a warranty extension for a second opinion since I was at the end of the 1 year warranty, I received the statement typed as shown in quotes, their grammar/spelling, not mine.

“findings we found in the eng dyno as is power inconsistent. Cam plate was removed to inspect oil flow which flow/was weak/ removed cam plate. Inspection of check valve and we found small debris lodged in bore of ck valve and upon inspection of lifters, we found corrosive etching on tappet rollers. Comments from oil engine enclose is not compatible with the environment (usage)  if component failure occurs there is no further warranty due to the use of Amszoil
Due to the corrosive condition of engine parts due to the use of Amszoil, no further warranty of labor or materials apply to this job. Zippers recommends you cease using the current oil and switch to spectro golden or redline synthetic and change every 2500 miles.”

7/06 I was forwarded the oil analysis, that Zippers paid for.  Report shows viscosity slightly low and recommends oil and filter change.  Not corrosive or out of specs for used oil.

8/06  Bike starts making noise similar to when first engine blew in 03, I parked the bike in hopes that the BBB claim and MD Attorney General’s claim would further induce mediation.  It didn’t
10/06  Cant wait, take bike to local shop for repair.  Valve spring breaks and bends valve.  The lifters that were replaced were inspected and no damage or corrosiveness found.
4/07  Went to court and was offered payment of valve spring repair providing I do not post anything on forum. I did receive an email from Dan after he was forwarded the info from the forum.  I chose no deal.

Opinions and stories are like A-holes….but the above statements are documented.  Their statements thru numerous phone calls, Amsoil caused the damage because the oil is corrosive.  Amsoil is owned by Amway, the altitude in Sturgis caused the lack of power  The debris causing a weak flow to internal parts….priceless.
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After all the money spent, I refuse to more on additional parts!!!   Except air filter, Exhaust, Power commander.........well, maybe a few more things.

hard10

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2007, 12:29:46 PM »

I sure would like to hear their side of the story. Not that I doubt what you are saying. I am little surprised that they did not want you to post on this forum.

Twolanerider

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2007, 01:03:01 PM »

All true, partially true, whatever; sorry for all the hassles you've endured.  That corrosive Amsoil and it's enhanced impacts at such high altitudes no doubt ate right through that valve spring.

The first questions that came to mind are the following:

Zippers finished the engine rebuild that was returned to you on 3 April.  On 5 April the motor blew due to a lifter failure?

How did the lifter fail such that it took the rest of the engine out with it?  And if Zippers had just done an engine rebuild did that rebuild include a set of lifters.  If so, why was their any charge for the re-rebuild that was completed in June?

No matter what.  No matter whose stories get told.  I do so love working with vendors anymore.  They are all so efficient, direct, honest and effective in their promises, ethic and craftsmanship that we are truly blessed by the motorcycle gods to be allowed to spend our money with them.  If you don't believe this just ask them.  Because it certainly is the attitude that too many of them seem to work under.

Without regard to all the hassles and loss; what ended up being the final resolution with the bike?  Different motor?  Someone else actually fixed it?  How's it working now and what all ended up being done to make it (finally) right?
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hogasm

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2007, 01:07:55 PM »

I would like to see the oil analysis that made Zippers say that Amsoil is corrosive. I would not be supprised that if Amsoil found out that Zippers was calling Amsoil a corrosive and substandard oil that legal actions might be coming their way.
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Chief

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2007, 01:11:26 PM »

All true, partially true, whatever; sorry for all the hassles you've endured.  That corrosive Amsoil and it's enhanced impacts at such high altitudes no doubt ate right through that valve spring.

The first questions that came to mind are the following:

Zippers finished the engine rebuild that was returned to you on 3 April.  On 5 April the motor blew due to a lifter failure?

How did the lifter fail such that it took the rest of the engine out with it?  And if Zippers had just done an engine rebuild did that rebuild include a set of lifters.  If so, why was their any charge for the re-rebuild that was completed in June?

No matter what.  No matter whose stories get told.  I do so love working with vendors anymore.  They are all so efficient, direct, honest and effective in their promises, ethic and craftsmanship that we are truly blessed by the motorcycle gods to be allowed to spend our money with them.  If you don't believe this just ask them.  Because it certainly is the attitude that too many of them seem to work under.

Without regard to all the hassles and loss; what ended up being the final resolution with the bike?  Different motor?  Someone else actually fixed it?  How's it working now and what all ended up being done to make it (finally) right?

Could be wrong, but I think it was built April 2003 and blew April 2005.
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radavi98

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2007, 01:24:29 PM »

Twolanerider, the 4/03 and 4/05 are month/year.  The lifter had shredded and tore up the housing so much that the bottom end had to be replaced and remachined to accommodate the 107 top end.  The lifter failure from the original build.  The cause at that time was said to be oil contamination.  Water to be specific, but only speculation.  No analysis that I know of.  Current status, bought the 07 SE Ultra for reliability and local hops for the road king.  Will wait for next failure and possibly replace with S&S.  Either way I am going button fly, no more zippers for me :drink:
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After all the money spent, I refuse to more on additional parts!!!   Except air filter, Exhaust, Power commander.........well, maybe a few more things.

Twolanerider

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 01:31:17 PM »


 Either way I am going button fly, no more zippers for me :drink:



Sorry for misinterpreting the dates.  The extended time frame certainly alters the debate; though certainly not the frustration.  Love your line copied above though.  That's priceless.  An appropriate sense of humor is never a bad thing  :2vrolijk_21: .
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radavi98

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2007, 01:52:47 PM »

Gotta laugh!!  Paid way too much not to.  First build 2 years and approx 15k miles.  Second build almost a year to the day and around 9k miles total
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After all the money spent, I refuse to more on additional parts!!!   Except air filter, Exhaust, Power commander.........well, maybe a few more things.

Ironhorse

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2007, 08:45:36 PM »

Gotta laugh!!  Paid way too much not to.  First build 2 years and approx 15k miles.  Second build almost a year to the day and around 9k miles total

It's good to see you are still left with a sense of humor.
Personally I'm glad to see that you did not take the deal that Dan offered just to keep you from posting your experience.
Your postings will probably save some other rider a ton of money, and a headaches to boot.
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2007, 09:23:19 AM »

It's good to see you are still left with a sense of humor.
Personally I'm glad to see that you did not take the deal that Dan offered just to keep you from posting your experience.
Your postings will probably save some other rider a ton of money, and a headaches to boot.

Well maybe but when you look at all of the work that goes out of that shop it is way less than 1% of the customers that have any problems.

I think the biggest problem is the time it takes to get some of the work done. I know thay are doing better at setting up schedules and delivering more on time than in the past.

Another thing that nobody really talks about is HOW DID YOU RUN THE BIKE????? And HOW DID YOU BREAK IN THE MOTOR???? And last HOW MUCH MAINTAINENCE DID YOU DO ON YOUR MOTOR? All of these come into play when you purchase a high performance motor. I know of very few people that have ever had any issues with Zippers except WHEN!!!!!! Yep when will I get the parts or the bike.

For many people that do not know Zippers is one of the most highly respected shops in the industry. EVEN BY THE MOTOR COMPANY! Like everyone else they will have issues with customers. If they didn't they would not being doing anything.

RADAVI98 I feel bad for you with the problems you have had. I can and will tell you when they did my 113 motor I was told NO AMSOIL. Actually I was told that by one of the machinest. He told me it breaks down a lot fasted than some of the others on the market. He also told me if I ran it drain it within 2500 miles.

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radavi98

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Re: 113 Muscle Kit installed
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2007, 10:02:42 AM »

Motor was not ridden hard, in comparison to others, and broke in for 1000 miles prior to the trip to sturgis for the first 60HP dyno.  You were probably told about the Amsoil due to my case.  But the oil analysis did not confirm their statements.  For me, regular changes between the 2500-3000 mark, oil tested was right around the 3k mark after Myrtle.  I had also received an email from them stating my oil had experienced extreme temperatures.  When I asked about the response, I was told the oil tested had no relationship to me.  I was told the Amsoil was corrosive 1 month before the analysis was performed.  No idea how they decided it was corrosive prior to testing, I would like to know.  Have to look more into others Amsoil use.  For me, I have rebuilt jap engines before and performed lots of work on many of my bikes when I was married and had tools. Maintained my 98 Low Rider for 45k miles plus before selling and switched to Amsoil around 25k miles without issue.  I went with Zippers based on their reputation also.  Not saying that this is the rule, but being the exception sucks.
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After all the money spent, I refuse to more on additional parts!!!   Except air filter, Exhaust, Power commander.........well, maybe a few more things.
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