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[copout221]

 Here is my situation. Took my 07 FLHTCUSE2 to the dealer a few days ago to get my 575 cams and new pushrods installed. They called me today and advised me that my bike needed an entire new motor due to a pinion gear (don't know what it is) being out of specs. They noticed the problem after removing the cam cover. Dealer said if the problem is not repaired I will have major issues in the future so I am without a bike for this weekend unless I pay them for a rental (that blows). They said the new motor should be in by Mon or Tues of next week and I should have the bike back towards the end of the week. My questions are:

1. Why didn't I notice anything wrong with the bike during the past 2200 miles ? It has been running and idling perfectly.

2. Could this pinion gear have been damaged by me in any way ? If so, how ?

3. Could the dealer have possibly damaged it and is not telling me the truth ?

Thanks to all the experts who can shed some light on this !!

[nidan]

I would take the weekend off and go with the new motor and be glad they caught it.
Other than 2 days loss of riding and a new break in you may benefit from anything the factory has improved on in the interim and not shared with us.

[Talon]

Well I'm no expert, but I don't think there's anyway to tell how it happened. Just have to bite the bullet and get the new motor! The bike was running, but who knows for how long! I don't know what a pinon gear is, I'm thinking since they were in there to change the cams, they might have been talking about the crank sprocket that drives the the primary cam. If this was bad and somehow messed up the end of the crank then they would have to tear down the entire motor to replace the crank, cheaper for them to put in a new motor. That's my guess.

[RedDevil]

I would take the weekend off and go with the new motor and be glad they caught it.
Other than 2 days loss of riding and a new break in you may benefit from anything the factory has improved on in the interim and not shared with us.

concur...go with the new motor, regardless of the reason...it's kind of irrelevent now, you need and are getting a new motor...run with that.
Cheers ,
 

[Fired00d]

Take the new motor. If it was a factory defect or the tech did something either way something is wrong and it's going to be replaced. One thing I would ask them (Dealer/MoCo) is will the new motor have my VIN stamped on it?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SPIDERMAN]

Take the new motor. If it was a factory defect or the tech did something either way something is wrong and it's going to be replaced. One thing I would ask them (Dealer/MoCo) is will the new motor have my VIN stamped on it?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Absolutely They have to give you a new motor with your VIN or they'd be on the hook for a complete new bike. The only way a dealer can be involved with non-matching VINs is in the case of the customer signing off on it (think H-D/JIMS 120) and then as I understand it in some states, some dealers require you to straighten out your registration before they deliver the bike to you. On the Reman motors, even where they ship you back a Reman'd motor with your VIN, the letters RM become part of the VIN on the motor. It is my understanding in a warranty sitation, that the motor has to be shipped back to the factory and the cases destroyed and all other parts inspected. Those that are deemed ok will be put into the Reman program. This is similar to a replacement frame from a wreck or other problems where the dealer cuts the neck off, ships it to the MoCo and junks the rest, only in this case, the factory wants the complete motor because most of it is likely to be reuseable.

Just my $0.02

B B

[Fired00d]

Absolutely They have to give you a new motor with your VIN or they'd be on the hook for a complete new bike. The only way a dealer can be involved with non-matching VINs is in the case of the customer signing off on it (think H-D/JIMS 120) and then as I understand it in some states, some dealers require you to straighten out your registration before they deliver the bike to you. On the Reman motors, even where they ship you back a Reman'd motor with your VIN, the letters RM become part of the VIN on the motor. It is my understanding in a warranty sitation, that the motor has to be shipped back to the factory and the cases destroyed and all other parts inspected. Those that are deemed ok will be put into the Reman program. This is similar to a replacement frame from a wreck or other problems where the dealer cuts the neck off, ships it to the MoCo and junks the rest, only in this case, the factory wants the complete motor because most of it is likely to be reuseable.

Just my $0.02

B B

I thought that was the case, but them getting the motor so quickly was making me wonder. Seemed to be awful quick for them to stamp it and build. Maybe they are already built and they have a machine that can stamp a VIN in then.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[copout221]

 Good Points from all. I just cannot understand how they cannot extend a courtesy to me for a service loaner at no charge. I brought them a bike with an estimate of $375.00 to install the cam. Now if I fork over $75.00 per day for four days or more I am just screwing myself. In addition, this dealer is over an hour away from my home so I don't have the luxury of just picking it up and dropping it off over the weekend for a day or two. If they provided a loaner for me I would not be that unhappy BUT I have an annual bike event this weekend that I took off work for and my wife really looks forward to. THIS SUCKS !!!

[Twolanerider]

Good Points from all. I just cannot understand how they cannot extend a courtesy to me for a service loaner at no charge. I brought them a bike with an estimate of $375.00 to install the cam. Now if I fork over $75.00 per day for four days or more I am just screwing myself. In addition, this dealer is over an hour away from my home so I don't have the luxury of just picking it up and dropping it off over the weekend for a day or two. If they provided a loaner for me I would not be that unhappy BUT I have an annual bike event this weekend that I took off work for and my wife really looks forward to. THIS SUCKS !!!

CO, it's certainly unexpected and an unhappy surprise to find out a motor is trashed.  Unsettling too on such a nearly new bike.  But at least you found out as you did rather than going down the road sometime and having it lock up. 

It's no doubt frustrating to unexpectedly be without the bike too.  Loaner vehicles are a courtesy though.  Not a requirement.  I can certainly understand a business owner's liability concerns that may choose against offering a loaner.  Especially in a case where the replacement seems to be happening so unexpectedly quickly.

Sometimes we're better off just declaring victory and moving on.  Getting a new engine, that wasn't even known to be needed, no questions asked, and in a pretty good hurry seems a pretty good definition of victory.  Especially when compared against the hassles and travails that others have had to go through to get far lesser repairs handled under their own warranties.

[ccr]

OK,  So you need to pull a Scot

Who has a spare bike they can lend a buddy in need?

Do you have any buddies that you know of who have a spare bike they can lend you for the weekend?

Can you do the weekend event in a cage?

Good luck with whatever solution you choose, and I am happy for you that you will get a new engine.  Sounds like they caught it just in time.

[copout221]

CO, it's certainly unexpected and an unhappy surprise to find out a motor is trashed.  Unsettling too on such a nearly new bike.  But at least you found out as you did rather than going down the road sometime and having it lock up. 

It's no doubt frustrating to unexpectedly be without the bike too.  Loaner vehicles are a courtesy though.  Not a requirement.  I can certainly understand a business owner's liability concerns that may choose against offering a loaner.  Especially in a case where the replacement seems to be happening so unexpectedly quickly.

Sometimes we're better off just declaring victory and moving on.  Getting a new engine, that wasn't even known to be needed, no questions asked, and in a pretty good hurry seems a pretty good definition of victory.  Especially when compared against the hassles and travails that others have had to go through to get far lesser repairs handled under their own warranties.

TLR
 I totally agree and you help me put this into a better perspective. Thanks !!!

[07 CVO]

Good Points from all. I just cannot understand how they cannot extend a courtesy to me for a service loaner at no charge. I brought them a bike with an estimate of $375.00 to install the cam. Now if I fork over $75.00 per day for four days or more I am just screwing myself. In addition, this dealer is over an hour away from my home so I don't have the luxury of just picking it up and dropping it off over the weekend for a day or two. If they provided a loaner for me I would not be that unhappy BUT I have an annual bike event this weekend that I took off work for and my wife really looks forward to. THIS SUCKS !!!

CO,

I had an engine replacement on my 07 SEUC at 1000 mile service interval and my dealer gave me a FREE loaner for the entire time my bike was in for service which was over 2 months and he stated that not to worry because he was billing the MoCo for the loaner, because the engine was under warranty. I also do know they do have a stock-pile of engines per-built waiting for just these situations. They do need a few days to put a VIN on the engines and to ship the engine out to your dealer, and your dealer will have to return your engine to the MoCo for them to do analasys on what went wrong.

Mark

[copout221]

OK,  So you need to pull a Scot

Who has a spare bike they can lend a buddy in need?

Do you have any buddies that you know of who have a spare bike they can lend you for the weekend?

Can you do the weekend event in a cage?

Good luck with whatever solution you choose, and I am happy for you that you will get a new engine.  Sounds like they caught it just in time.

 One of my buddies has a deuce that I may hit him up for. If that doesn't work out I will just concentrate on my grass this weekend   . I just got off the phone with the dealer who basically told me that they were really surprised that the MOCO didn't want to inspect the motor before authorizing a replacement. He said that it was odd and led him to believe that they know this issue exists and are not asking any questions after checking the VIN and production date. However, he didn't think I would have my bike back next week. Oh Well !!!! I also spoke with the service manager about the loaner issue and he is working on it and will call me back. I have my fingers crossed but am not expecting magic.

[copout221]

CO,

I had an engine replacement on my 07 SEUC at 1000 mile service interval and my dealer gave me a FREE loaner for the entire time my bike was in for service which was over 2 months and he stated that not to worry because he was billing the MoCo for the loaner, because the engine was under warranty. I also do know they do have a stock-pile of engines per-built waiting for just these situations. They do need a few days to put a VIN on the engines and to ship the engine out to your dealer, and your dealer will have to return your engine to the MoCo for them to do analasys on what went wrong.

Mark

 The free loaner thing is the issue right now. My local dealer said he would have offered one as soon as the problem was found but this dealer doesn't offer them any more and $75.00 per day add's up fast !!  I also called my local dealer who said he may be able to get me something to ride for the weekend. He couldn't guarantee an FL but anything will do (even an 883  )

[Twolanerider]

TLR
 I totally agree and you help me put this into a better perspective. Thanks !!!

It is so easy to get wound up in these affairs; especially when they surprise us like this.  It is very easy to know right where you're coming from.  And if the delay were extended; weeks and weeks, or even months I'd be far more concerned about something to replace the ride during the downtime also.  But just a few days; at least for me that makes it a far iffier proposition.  Congrats on getting the new motor.  And congrats on what sounds like a shop that does what it needs to on warranty problems without hiding behind company reps and all the other nonsense that we hear about all too often.

Your initial reason for taking it in begs a question though.  After break-in is finished on the new engine you going to go back in for the cam work again?

[DCFIREMANN]

The pinion gear that they are talking about is connected to your crank assembly. YOU HAVE TOOOO MUCH  PINION RUN OUT!!!!! Meaning your flywheels are out of true (by more than .002) So I would not bitch. I would sit back and watch the grass grow. Hell you are getting the bonus plan. New motor under warranty WHAT'S NOT TOOOO LIKE!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG 

[copout221]

Your initial reason for taking it in begs a question though.  After break-in is finished on the new engine you going to go back in for the cam work again?

 No, they are going to install the cam on the new motor. I asked them if that was the best choice and they said it would not matter. I am still a bit questionable about that 

[copout221]

The pinion gear that they are talking about is connected to your crank assembly. YOU HAVE TOOOO MUCH  PINION RUN OUT!!!!! Meaning your flywheels are out of true (by more than .002) So I would not bitch. I would sit back and watch the grass grow. Hell you are getting the bonus plan. New motor under warranty WHAT'S NOT TOOOO LIKE!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG 

 Thanks DC,

What is your opinion regarding the cam install? Will it make a difference if they install it on the new motor and everything gets broken in together ? Also, could my 110 have been effected by any lack of performance due to the pinion issue ? I am just wondering if I have been riding a 110 that was lacking in it's potential for power since day # 1 .

[Fired00d]

No, they are going to install the cam on the new motor. I asked them if that was the best choice and they said it would not matter. I am still a bit questionable about that 

I wouldn't think that would be a problem. To me it wouldn't be any different then changing the pipes/breather before picking up a new bike (I've even known people to change cams on a new bike before picking it up). One thing you'll have to beware of it's a new motor and you'll have to break it in versus putting cams in a broken in motor, and riding it hard when you picked it up. I believe I remember you saying you have the TM/AT so you should be able to start w/a map for your setup and ride the bike/break it in as you did initially.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[copout221]

I wouldn't think that would be a problem. To me it wouldn't be any different then changing the pipes/breather before picking up a new bike (I've even known people to change cams on a new bike before picking it up). One thing you'll have to beware of it's a new motor and you'll have to break it in versus putting cams in a broken in motor, and riding it hard when you picked it up. I believe I remember you saying you have the TM/AT so you should be able to start w/a map for your setup and ride the bike/break it in as you did initially.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Yes, I am running the TMAT so all I will have to do is re-initialize the idle air control / clear the existing learned fuel adjustments / and load the new map for my setup. The break in of the engine, cams, and auto adjustment by the TMAT can all take place at the same time.

[SOKOOLJ]

mY 0.02 CENTS...

  Glad they caught it at the dealer, I noticed my problem during a restart on a ride. My flywheel was 56-thousandths out. yes, 56. I received the new motor 4 days later with my VIN. Goog luck with the dealer and a rental, I was hoked up with an 06 road king for the 7 days I was out my scoot.

SOKOOL

[DCFIREMANN]

Thanks DC,

What is your opinion regarding the cam install? Will it make a difference if they install it on the new motor and everything gets broken in together ? Also, could my 110 have been effected by any lack of performance due to the pinion issue ? I am just wondering if I have been riding a 110 that was lacking in it's potential for power since day # 1 .

Yep let them do the cam swap right now. Break the whole thing in together.

You will love it.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

mY 0.02 CENTS...

  Glad they caught it at the dealer, I noticed my problem during a restart on a ride. My flywheel was 56-thousandths out. yes, 56. I received the new motor 4 days later with my VIN. Goog luck with the dealer and a rental, I was hoked up with an 06 road king for the 7 days I was out my scoot.

SOKOOL

HOW MANY??? Damn I can't even count that high. I have never heard of one out that far!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[copout221]

HOW MANY??? Damn I can't even count that high. I have never heard of one out that far!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Yea, they told me mine was off 30 thousandths. What caused the suspicion was that the technician couldn't get the oil pump off which should normally slide off without any problem.

[DCFIREMANN]

Yea, they told me mine was off 30 thousandths. What caused the suspicion was that the technician couldn't get the oil pump off which should normally slide off without any problem.

BINGO !!!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!! Well it least it wasn't 56 thou!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

BINGO !!!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!! Well it least it wasn't 56 thou!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Oh man, couldn't even get the oil pump off.  That was a minor beverage spew just from the picture it puts in your head.  Sorry CO, absolutely not laughing at what happened to your bike.  But certainly chuckling along with you at the thought of the poor wrench working and pulling and cussing and fuming and thinking,"whatdahell is going on here?"     .

[nixobilly]

wish they would offer to replace mine -- I have 9600 miles and would love a rev 1 of the 110.....

Mark

[copout221]

Oh man, couldn't even get the oil pump off.  That was a minor beverage spew just from the picture it puts in your head.  Sorry CO, absolutely not laughing at what happened to your bike.  But certainly chuckling along with you at the thought of the poor wrench working and pulling and cussing and fuming and thinking,"whatdahell is going on here?"     .

[TimBone]

CO, like the other, Man I am sorry to hear about this with your bike.
Glad the dealer is taking care of you and getting it done.  Especially with the
TMAT and other mods, that is customer service.
I am in the process of moving to North Carolina over the next 2 weeks and think
I might just bring my bike into a dealer up there to have them check out my
engine before anything happens.
Thanks for posting and let us know when you have the bike back.
Also, I am interested in hearing how you like those 575 cams!!
Timmy Boy has been eyeing them up too.

[SBB]

Tigertr71

Where in NC you moving to?

 

[hogasm]

Thanks DC,

What is your opinion regarding the cam install? Will it make a difference if they install it on the new motor and everything gets broken in together ? Also, could my 110 have been effected by any lack of performance due to the pinion issue ? I am just wondering if I have been riding a 110 that was lacking in it's potential for power since day # 1 .

No problem whatsoever. Break in everything at one time. Keeps from doing it twice.

Will your dealer warranty the motor with the new cams installed?

[copout221]

No problem whatsoever. Break in everything at one time. Keeps from doing it twice.

Will your dealer warranty the motor with the new cams installed?

 Yes they will warranty it but I don't care for this dealer and will most likely NOT return for service. Plus it is not my regular dealer and is over an hour away from home.

 Another thing that really bothers me is how the dealer said this problem could have led to "Catastrophic Failure" of the motor. I didn't know what that meant until doing some reasearch on this problem. Appearantly, if this issue caused my oil pump to shut down it would have caused the engine to seize in a very short amount of time which could easily lead to DEATH or serious injury. I really hope this is something I will not be thinking about whenever I am on my bike in the future. 

[TimBone]

Chip,
Headed up to Peletier(Swansboro) area.  Wife and I are getting
stationed back up there for our next Tour of Duty with the Marines.
Once we get settled in I will have to ride out your way!!!
Which Mathews are you in? Branch or Creek?

[copout221]

 OK , dealer called me today and the new motor arrived in the crate  . Apparently, it was built by hand in Milwaukee and stamped with my Vin #. I confirmed this with the MOCO who to my surprise knew exactly what was going on after I gave them my name. I picked up a loaner FLHX with 6 (yes six) miles on it. I DO NOT like it but beggars cannot be choosers (especially since it is FREE). I really appreciate my SEUC after riding this bike, it is just so much different, slow, quiet, etc!!! 

[Fired00d]

That's great news. Seems to be working out in your favor more and more each day (motor arrived earlier then expected, right VIN #, and you get a free loaner).

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

OK , dealer called me today and the new motor arrived in the crate  . Apparently, it was built by hand in Milwaukee and stamped with my Vin #. I confirmed this with the MOCO who to my surprise knew exactly what was going on after I gave them my name. I picked up a loaner FLHX with 6 (yes six) miles on it. I DO NOT like it but beggars cannot be choosers (especially since it is FREE). I really appreciate my SEUC after riding this bike, it is just so much different, slow, quiet, etc!!! 

CO, you'd written earlier suggesting that this wasn't your choice of dealerships in the area.  Given how they've managed everything so far, and probably had to ride herd to get the engine there that quickly, this sounds to me like a shop to hang on to.  Congrats on everything falling in to place so quickly.  It's gratifying to hear when a major problem, that shouldn't be a huge fight for the customer just because it is a major problem, ends up not being a huge hassle. 

[copout221]

CO, you'd written earlier suggesting that this wasn't your choice of dealerships in the area.  Given how they've managed everything so far, and probably had to ride herd to get the engine there that quickly, this sounds to me like a shop to hang on to.  Congrats on everything falling in to place so quickly.  It's gratifying to hear when a major problem, that shouldn't be a huge fight for the customer just because it is a major problem, ends up not being a huge hassle. 

This dealer that was recommended by Bill Lam from Zippers so I felt comfortable with them working on my bike that was equipped with the TMAT setup. Plus this dealer quoted one hour less than the previous dealer who wanted to be lazy and NOT check the upper part of the motor for clearances. So far I am not unhappy with them. I just hope the bike runs good and is not damaged in any way when I pick it up. I don't want any new scratches or blemishes when I pick it up.

The loaner came from a buddy who is a G.M of a local dealer near my house.  He really hooked me up and I regret that I didn't take my bike to him but they are backed up for five weeks and I didn't want to wait.

[Twolanerider]

This dealer that was recommended by Bill Lam from Zippers so I felt comfortable with them working on my bike that was equipped with the TMAT setup. Plus this dealer quoted one hour less than the previous dealer who wanted to be lazy and NOT check the upper part of the motor for clearances. So far I am not unhappy with them. I just hope the bike runs good and is not damaged in any way when I pick it up. I don't want any new scratches or blemishes when I pick it up.

The loaner came from a buddy who is a G.M of a local dealer near my house.  He really hooked me up and I regret that I didn't take my bike to him but they are backed up for five weeks and I didn't want to wait.

Just very glad it's all working out man.  Getting to start fresh with all the additions already made really seems the best alternative for your current set of circumstances too.  You can get it home, break it in just a bit, then ride it and forget about it.  Hope she comes back in great shape.  Likely will too  .

[copout221]

Update: Called the dealer today (Wednesday) who has had the motor since last friday. They told me they had not started on the bike yet and I went ballistic. I demanded a loaner at their cost since the bike will most likely NOT be done by this weekend like they promised. They told me that they would get me a loaner at their cost but I am still pissed. Don't assure me that the bike will be done at a designated time and decide to change that for whatever reason.    I want my bike back. I hate to say this but I am slowly starting to lose my dedication to H.D . Especially after speaking with customer service last week and getting nothing but stale answers and lies. I just hate the idea of riding a Goldwing !!! 

[Unbalanced]

Copout,

I can't understand why they it won't be ready its a 8-10 hour job for the motor swap its not like they have to take it apart and put it the top end back on ..  pull the old motor put in the new motor add fluids and break in?   Is there something else missing here?   so whats the reason they haven't put you at the front of the line at this point?

Make sure they are covering the insurance on the loaner too that ends up being 20 - 30 dollars a day for full coverage.

[copout221]

Copout,

I can't understand why they it won't be ready its a 8-10 hour job for the motor swap its not like they have to take it apart and put it the top end back on ..  pull the old motor put in the new motor add fluids and break in?   Is there something else missing here?   so whats the reason they haven't put you at the front of the line at this point?

Make sure they are covering the insurance on the loaner too that ends up being 20 - 30 dollars a day for full coverage.

Unbalanced,

The service manager told me that the mechanic took on another job on monday while my bike sat. They had not even pulled the old motor as of yesterdey. He also blew smoke up my *** telling me that the "high performance" parts (cam and pushrods) require more time to install (even though the engine is on the bench which makes it easier) and I may not see the bike till next week. My insurance will cover me 100% on any rental / loaners but compared to my CVO I don't want some stock bagger that sounds like a blender. It just seems like my issue has been put on the back burner and I am tempted to call the MOCO again and let them know they could have taken more time on getting the new motor out since it is just sitting in the crate at the dealer. I think I have been more than patient. 

[Hoist!]

Unbalanced,

The service manager told me that the mechanic took on another job on monday while my bike sat. They had not even pulled the old motor as of yesterdey. He also blew smoke up my *** telling me that the "high performance" parts (cam and pushrods) require more time to install (even though the engine is on the bench which makes it easier) and I may not see the bike till next week. My insurance will cover me 100% on any rental / loaners but compared to my CVO I don't want some stock bagger that sounds like a blender. It just seems like my issue has been put on the back burner and I am tempted to call the MOCO again and let them know they could have taken more time on getting the new motor out since it is just sitting in the crate at the dealer. I think I have been more than patient. 

Try to work it out with the dealer. If you get the MoCo to intervene, someone might spit in your food! Hoist!

[Fired00d]

Try to work it out with the dealer. If you get the MoCo to intervene, someone might spit in your food! Hoist!

I was thinking the same thing. He's at the mercy of the dealer at this point in time to make to many waves may not be the best thing to do. Things have been known to happen. As frustrating as it may be this may be one of the times you hold back until you get bike back in your possesion.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Hoist!]

I was thinking the same thing. He's at the mercy of the dealer at this point in time to make to many waves may not be the best thing to do. Things have been known to happen. As frustrating as it may be this may be one of the times you hold back until you get bike back in your possesion.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

That's what I'm talking about d00d! Vent your frustration about this afterwards and don't go back if you're not happy with them. But now's not the best time to be pissing them off! Unfortunately, they got you by the b@lls. Just be patient and nicely try coaxing them to get 'er done! It sucks to have to kiss their ass, but you don't yell at the waiter before he delivers your meal! JMO. Hoist!

[copout221]

I was thinking the same thing. He's at the mercy of the dealer at this point in time to make to many waves may not be the best thing to do. Things have been known to happen. As frustrating as it may be this may be one of the times you hold back until you get bike back in your possesion.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

 Yep, that is the bad part of this whole thing. I really have no control. I will not call the MOCO or start making threats. That will only aggravate the situation. I am just hoping the bike is done tomorrow so I can get it out of there. I will never take my bike to another dealer where they don't know me and I don't spend my $$. I have learned from this mistake, MY BAD.

[Unbalanced]

copout,

Here I think is the problem if you throw this dealer under the bus, you may get little to no help in the future if you have a problem so the question is do you have another dealer to go to if you burn this bridge or are you kind of stuck in having to deal with this dealer due to how close they are etc to you.

Have you told the service manager that this was not a good enough answer or time frame?  If so, what was his reply?

I am amazed that the dealer has only 1 guy that can put in a cam / swap a motor that they trust, that would kind of scare me a little.

I have very little patience so, I know I would already be having a talk with the owner of the dealership or the GM at least to start with and if its not a priority for him then maybe it would be for the owner and if not the owner I would consider asking Harley to pick another dealer and have you take the motor over there to be put in if that is possible so they get no money on this deal what so ever.   

I would save calling the moco as a last resort as they have no real power over the dealer to do a warranty item right now.   What could be suggested if there are other dealers near you is to have the motor taken elsewhere and have someone else do the work if they are not willing to take care of this.  You would have to have another dealer lined up though by the Moco.     

[Hoist!]

Yep, that is the bad part of this whole thing. I really have no control. I will not call the MOCO or start making threats. That will only aggravate the situation. I am just hoping the bike is done tomorrow so I can get it out of there. I will never take my bike to another dealer where they don't know me and I don't spend my $$. I have learned from this mistake, MY BAD.

I know how you feel CO. Hang in there. I hope it's all good from here. Good luck! Hoist!

[copout221]

copout,

Here I think is the problem if you throw this dealer under the bus, you may get little to no help in the future if you have a problem so the question is do you have another dealer to go to if you burn this bridge or are you kind of stuck in having to deal with this dealer due to how close they are etc to you.

Have you told the service manager that this was not a good enough answer or time frame?  If so, what was his reply?

I am amazed that the dealer has only 1 guy that can put in a cam / swap a motor that they trust, that would kind of scare me a little.

I have very little patience so, I know I would already be having a talk with the owner of the dealership or the GM at least to start with and if its not a priority for him then maybe it would be for the owner and if not the owner I would consider asking Harley to pick another dealer and have you take the motor over there to be put in if that is possible so they get no money on this deal what so ever.   

I would save calling the moco as a last resort as they have no real power over the dealer to do a warranty item right now.   What could be suggested if there are other dealers near you is to have the motor taken elsewhere and have someone else do the work if they are not willing to take care of this.  You would have to have another dealer lined up though by the Moco.     

This is not my regular dealer and that is why I am kicking myself now. My reg dealer could not get me in for three weeks to do the cam (I was impatient) and Zippers recommended this dealer which is over an hour away from my home. So after dropping my bike off I have been regretting the decision to take it there, even though they found the pinion problem I know it would have been discovered by my local dealer.

I tried to contact the GM of the dealership and they shot me down telling me that there is no GM. There are just managers of each department and I would have to deal with that person. The service manager (Randy) has been really nice to me but that can only help for a short time. I just want my bike back in the condition expected and promised.

If I could get them to give me the bike, motor, parts I would just bring the bike back to my local dealer to finish but that would just be a nightmare to get done when it comes to payment for the warranty work.

I am also kicking myself for buying this bike in the first place (plus my wife is kicking me). This problem is not isolated to a few 110 motors. From what I have been reading it is a common problem that the MOCO will not acknowledge as such. I have NEVER purchased a vehicle the first model year it was offered and broke my own rule with this bike. I was warned by three friends about buying this bike due to it being the first series of the new 110 on the market and I didn't listen. I am now hearing "we told you so." I wanted to prove them wrong but I have failed !! The only reason I made the purchase was because I fell in love with the traditional orange and black colors PLUS there will most likely NOT be a CVO Ultra offered in 2008. I would have bought a 2006 but wanted the 6 speed. The motor is a dog and I knew it would be so that was not my incentive to make the purchase. Overall, and I am sorry if I offend anyone on this forum but this bike was overpriced and overrated. If I had to do it all over again I would do a stock bagger, ship it to Zippers and have them build the motor correctly.

Sorry about this rant but I am really disappointed and needed to vent !!!

[copout221]

 WOW..Just talked to my buddy who runs a local dealer and he said his HD rep knows about the problems with the 110 motor and the pinion runout issues. The MOCO is attributing the problem to lugging the motor which can cause the problem. It doesn't surprise me that this whole batch of bad 110 motor problems will be blamed on rider / owner negligence. Interesting, I don't remember lugging my motor more than two times for a split second but apparently that is enough to cause this !!! 

[bisounours]

WOW..Just talked to my buddy who runs a local dealer and he said his HD rep knows about the problems with the 110 motor and the pinion runout issues. The MOCO is attributing the problem to lugging the motor which can cause the problem. It doesn't surprise me that this whole batch of bad 110 motor problems will be blamed on rider / owner negligence. Interesting, I don't remember lugging my motor more than two times for a split second but apparently that is enough to cause this !!! 

Please, explain me with other words. I understand not "The MOCO is attributing the problem to lugging the motor which can cause the problem"
Probably my poor english.
Thanks
Jacques

[ccr]

Please, explain me with other words. I understand not "The MOCO is attributing the problem to lugging the motor which can cause the problem"
Probably my poor english.
Thanks
Jacques

lugging engine = driving too slow in too high a gear

Running when you tach is under 2000 rpms

 

[ccr]

lugging engine = driving too slow in too high a gear

Running when you tach is under 2000 rpms

 

oops     I did not read the thread title.  I am not qualified to be answering this question.   

[Fired00d]

oops     I did not read the thread title.  I am not qualified to be answering this question.   

Your answer sounded good to me.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[bisounours]

Thanks for your reply !
Me too, it sounds good now !

Jacques

[Chief]

WOW..Just talked to my buddy who runs a local dealer and he said his HD rep knows about the problems with the 110 motor and the pinion runout issues. The MOCO is attributing the problem to lugging the motor which can cause the problem. It doesn't surprise me that this whole batch of bad 110 motor problems will be blamed on rider / owner negligence. Interesting, I don't remember lugging my motor more than two times for a split second but apparently that is enough to cause this !!! 

Sounds like CRAP to me.

[Twolanerider]

Sounds like CRAP to me.

That's Harley.

When the options are a) blame the machine and/or the company or b) blame the people that support the company and wear its name on their skin the answer generally tends to be B.

[Chief]

That's Harley.

When the options are a) blame the machine and/or the company or b) blame the people that support the company and wear its name on their skin the answer generally tends to be B.

At least the motors are getting replaced under warranty and owners are not being told to go pound sand.

[Twolanerider]

At least the motors are getting replaced under warranty and owners are not being told to go pound sand.

But wait until a slightly ridden machine that only has 3 or 4k miles eats itself 6 weeks out of factory warranty craps out.  Known problems and herds of dead motors won't make a whit's difference to the MoCo then.  Sand shall be pounded most righteously by those poor folks.

[Rhino]

Hey Copout,

Its been what, 5 days since the motor arrived?  Well, good shops do take their time sometimes, and this one may be one of them. To see you got a new motor, and a loaner, and a hand built engine, and a shop to install to cams on the AT bike, well, your comment earlier, you have no patience seems very true.  

Forgive me if I missed something relevant or important, but if I missed, pretend your in the deep south and relax.

Rhino(exercizingmytypingfingerswhileitsraining,notridingunlikehoistwhoneverridesjusttypes)

[Chief]

But wait until a slightly ridden machine that only has 3 or 4k miles eats itself 6 weeks out of factory warranty.  Known problems and herds of dead motors won't make a whit's difference to the MoCo then.  Sand shall be pounded most righteously by those poor folks.

I'm so close to pulling the cam cover to check it ain't funny, but that may jeapordize the Mem Day Ride to the Wall. I don't even want to put it into the shop for the weeping head gasket for fear they'll find something else to eat up time. But, the alternative is not attractive.

[copout221]

Rhino,

I appreciate your opinion on this subject but please try to understand I would not be this unhappy if the dealer had not given me a completion date/time that they could not adhere to. They verbally told me the bike would be their #1 priority on Monday 5/7/07 and should be done by the middle of the week. So when I called on 5/9/07 (middle of the week) for a status update I was furious to find out they had not even touched the bike.  Honestly, I don't care how long it takes just as long as it is done right. They ARE giving me a bagger (at their cost) for this weekend so I really have no reason to complain at this point. One thing I will say on behalf of the dealer. They have been nothing but honest and receptive to my concerns about this. They could have easily lied to me when I called on Wednesday and told me that my bike was still being worked on and would not be done until Monday or Tuesday. However, they were honest and told me that the bike had not been touched yet. The service manager is a stand up guy who has excellent customer service skills and has returned every phone call I have placed.

On a side note, if this was NOT covered under warranty and the motor had to be repaired at my cost (non warranty) it was estimated at approx $4,000 - $5,000 dollars. WOW, I wonder what a new motor would cost ??

[Unbalanced]

Copout,
If they had given you a start date of monday I would tearing them new ones for not touching the bike until now.   You didnt pick the date its a date they gave you and they should be living up to their commitments

New 120 is about 7000 plus labor to put it in.   I would imagine a 110 to be not that far off from that price.

[sadunbar]

Rhino,

I appreciate your opinion on this subject but please try to understand I would not be this unhappy if the dealer had not given me a completion date/time that they could not adhere to. They verbally told me the bike would be their #1 priority on Monday 5/7/07 and should be done by the middle of the week. So when I called on 5/9/07 (middle of the week) for a status update I was furious to find out they had not even touched the bike.  Honestly, I don't care how long it takes just as long as it is done right. They ARE giving me a bagger (at their cost) for this weekend so I really have no reason to complain at this point. One thing I will say on behalf of the dealer. They have been nothing but honest and receptive to my concerns about this. They could have easily lied to me when I called on Wednesday and told me that my bike was still being worked on and would not be done until Monday or Tuesday. However, they were honest and told me that the bike had not been touched yet. The service manager is a stand up guy who has excellent customer service skills and has returned every phone call I have placed.

On a side note, if this was NOT covered under warranty and the motor had to be repaired at my cost (non warranty) it was estimated at approx $4,000 - $5,000 dollars. WOW, I wonder what a new motor would cost ??

You know how politicians get in more trouble trying to cover stuff up then they ever would be in if they were just upfront when they get caught getting their hands dirty... 

well, it seems like this is a another case of a simple upfront phone call on Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning from the Service Manager explaining the schedule change - rather then waiting for the customer to call on Wednesday to be surprised with the bad news of "we haven't even started yet"...  

Scott

[copout221]

You know how politicians get in more trouble trying to cover stuff up then they ever would be in if they were just upfront when they get caught getting their hands dirty... 

well, it seems like this is a another case of a simple upfront phone call on Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning from the Service Manager explaining the schedule change - rather then waiting for the customer to call on Wednesday to be surprised with the bad news of "we haven't even started yet"...  

Scott

Well I am just hoping that when I call Randy (service manager) tomorrow at 1:00 he will have good news for me about my bike. Otherwise I will be heading up there to pick up my service loaner for the weekend. I really don't care how much longer it takes for them to finish the bike just as long as it is done right and I have something to ride. I don't want to be standing at the dealer late on a Friday waiting for them to finish putting my exhaust on or something else. That is just an accident waiting to happen and things are always forgotten about or overlooked.

[sadunbar]

Well I am just hoping that when I call Randy (service manager) tomorrow at 1:00 he will have good news for me about my bike. Otherwise I will be heading up there to pick up my service loaner for the weekend. I really don't care how much longer it takes for them to finish the bike just as long as it is done right and I have something to ride. I don't want to be standing at the dealer late on a Friday waiting for them to finish putting my exhaust on or something else. That is just an accident waiting to happen and things are always forgotten about or overlooked.

I am from N. Illinois also....who has your bike? which dealer?

Scott

[Rooster]

Asked the dealer aabout checking runout, 4 hours labor plus parts

[copout221]

I am from N. Illinois also....who has your bike? which dealer?

Scott

Scott,

It is currently at Uke's in Kenosha, WI. I have never used them before for service but have always heard great things about them. I normally have my bike serviced at McHenry H.D in McHenry, IL but they could not get my bike in until the end of May and that is why I took it to Uke's. I will most likely never do that again 

[copout221]

Asked the dealer aabout checking runout, 4 hours labor plus parts

What a bunch of crap !!

That's like one of my local dealers quoting me 5 more hours to pull the rockers covers to check for proper clearance when installing my cam.

[sadunbar]

Scott,

It is currently at Uke's in Kenosha, WI. I have never used them before for service but have always heard great things about them. I normally have my bike serviced at McHenry H.D in McHenry, IL but they could not get my bike in until the end of May and that is why I took it to Uke's. I will most likely never do that again 

I live in Roscoe, Il, but I worked in Kenosha for a couple of years a few - a couple of years ago, so I am familiar with Uke's.  They have a decent reputation in their service department, and the owner is pretty hands on.  When the dust settles, I would probably have a conversation with him about how they handled the communication side of your business with them.  I suspect you will be pleased with the work they perform when they get done - to bad the scheduling got complicated and the communication was lacking....

I generally buy my bikes at Kutter's in Janesville - they are a MSRP dealer and constantly have sales on parts and accessories - and they have been great to deal with on any warranty issues over the years - never any drama.  I do my own maintenance and mechanical work, so I can't personally speak to their service department.  When I want some dyno time, I go to Hal's in New Berlin, Wi. (south of Milwaukee).  Hal's has an outstanding dyno technician.

Scott

[copout221]

I live in Roscoe, Il, but I worked in Kenosha for a couple of years a few - a couple of years ago, so I am familiar with Uke's.  They have a decent reputation in their service department, and the owner is pretty hands on.  When the dust settles, I would probably have a conversation with him about how they handled the communication side of your business with them.  I suspect you will be pleased with the work they perform when they get done - to bad the scheduling got complicated and the communication was lacking....

I generally buy my bikes at Kutter's in Janesville - they are a MSRP dealer and constantly have sales on parts and accessories - and they have been great to deal with on any warranty issues over the years - never any drama.  I do my own maintenance and mechanical work, so I can't personally speak to their service department.  When I want some dyno time, I go to Hal's in New Berlin, Wi. (south of Milwaukee).  Hal's has an outstanding dyno technician.

Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the information about Hal's. I want to get my bike power dynoed after I break this new motor and cams in. I am curious about how much HP and torque it is really putting out and it sounds like Hal's would be the right place to get it done.

I picked up my bike tonight and so far it is running like a champ. As usual, it was not as clean as I would have liked but that is a trivial issue that really doesn't bother me. I am going to reload the Zippers map that they provided for my setup and re-initalize the IAC with new fuel points. I am hoping to put around 300 miles on tomorrow so I can break the motor in right. I cannot wait to jump on it !! I really want to see how much better it runs with these cams.

I will say this. Riding this bike after having a stock FLHX last week is like a dream. I will never take it for granted again !!!

As for the new motor, the "110" plate is changed. It is now black with the writing in silver as opposed to the brushed aluminum look with black writing.

[Smiler]

Sorry to hear about your plight, a few years ago I had the same problem with my dealership, nice guys but techically crap, I upgraded to the old stage 3 with high compression pistons etc consequently lots of problems with my bike because they never advised me to upgrade the starter motor or add decompressors....not strictly true, they didn't know they were required, consequently my bike was off the road often and for quite some time.

I live 60miles from this dealership which was in the middle of nowhere, they wouldn't provide a loaner but took me to the railway station and dropped me off.  It took 4hours to get home....I was furious. 

I'm now with a dealer I am comfortable with, still not technically sound but they certainly look after their customers.  I have been waiting since September for SERK delivery and am told it arrives at the end of this month.  He caught me looking around the dealership with a long face and tossed a set of keys at me and said cheer yourself up..........I did with a smile as big as the English channel I gave him his keys back.  He added if I wanted more to pick up a bike after Saturday closing and to have it back first thing Monday.
Any of you guys over in the Canterbury area of England look them (and me) up, they'll make you feel most welcome.

[SOKOOLJ]

Once again, sorry to hear of your troubles, Brother.

SOKOOL

[RedDevil]

Scott,

Thanks for the information about Hal's. I want to get my bike power dynoed after I break this new motor and cams in. I am curious about how much HP and torque it is really putting out and it sounds like Hal's would be the right place to get it done.

I picked up my bike tonight and so far it is running like a champ. As usual, it was not as clean as I would have liked but that is a trivial issue that really doesn't bother me. I am going to reload the Zippers map that they provided for my setup and re-initalize the IAC with new fuel points. I am hoping to put around 300 miles on tomorrow so I can break the motor in right. I cannot wait to jump on it !! I really want to see how much better it runs with these cams.

I will say this. Riding this bike after having a stock FLHX last week is like a dream. I will never take it for granted again !!!

As for the new motor, the "110" plate is changed. It is now black with the writing in silver as opposed to the brushed aluminum look with black writing.

CO,
Glad to hear you got your bike back and have stated the breakin period again.  Good luck with this new engine...I actually think kudos go to the dealership for telling you that you needed a new engine.  It may not have been as fast as you wanted (it never is), but in my book, they did right by you.

I ordered the "110" plates from Chicago Harley, and they told me that the old part number (minus the "A" at the end), is a discontinued part number.  So apparently, the black and silver plates have totally replaced the silver and black ones.  Can't wait to get the new plates in as they look much more "normal" on the black and silver engine.
Cheers ,

[Rhino]

CO,

Ditto on RD's comments.  BTW,  I got my new black tags last week, I like.   Now that we know so much, or, not so much about these motors, it must feel special to have a brand new one under your butt that you can play with all over again.  Be true to the break in, and have a lot of fun. I lived in Gbay for a few years. Loved that 2 month riding season...harrharr.

Rhino(niceandtoastyinflorida)