Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Greaseball]

I have a test mule here ready to go now. We are going to install the cam in a stock 110, dyno, then do pipe, a/c kit , dyno, then ported the heads raise compression slightly and dyno. Should be a great test with some excellent feed back data. WIll keep ya posted as things progress

Hey there Steve!!
I'm so glad that you found your way to this board......us 110" CVO owners are hungry for information and reliable mods for these engines.  Thanks for blazing some new trails for us!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The bike was dropped off on Sat. I will have it for 3 weeks to do some basic testing. I am working with a bike that has only Python sklip on's at this point. I  am going to ride it for a few days , checking fuel MPG, engine noise, ping, going to do a few 1/4 mile runs with a GPS . Thus far it will ping under moderate throttle on flat ground, burns the inside's of my legs while riding and at times I think I am pulling a plow,  as well the engine is a ticking monster,..we have some great hills and mountians here so I can put the bike through's its paces. The first add on will be tuning the bike with the SERT, then back though the testing process, then on to adding a cam and so on. It will be a long process but should be some very good data. Once done the bike will have ported heads, cam, 2-1 fat cat pipe with quite baffle. This may be a rather strange way of testing but i want to see what can be gains or lost ( I hope nothing will be lost) as far as MPG, performance, engine noise, etc. Stay tuned for the results

[rlavigna]

I look forward to your findings.  I have a stock SERK and have about 4,300 miles on it.  Thank you.  Rich

[Talon]

Steve, I'm not questioning what you said, but how does a cam plate help resolve pinion runout? I'm concerned about this because I'd like to go gear drive, but would hate to order a gear drive cam kit and find out my runout is just out enough that I shouldn't use the gear drive. Not really looking forward to pulling the motor to correct it unless it was really bad!

[BlueFlames]

Steve,

Some great information here, thank you for your input!!  I have a 07 SERK and recently at the dealers reccomendation had a SERT, SE 257 and V/H slip-ons added.  The result was not as good as either of us expected, especially the torque at the low-end which was the goal.  The dealer has been very good and is willing to swap out the SE257 for a SE251 for me.  I am staying with HD parts for now due to warranty reasons.

Do you think this change will improve the torque in the 2500 to 4000 range over the 257 (or the stock cams)?

Thanks for your input to the board!

Doug

(I have posted the Dyno sheet if it helps)

[Hoist!]

Steve,

Some great information here, thank you for your input!!  I have a 07 SERK and recently at the dealers reccomendation had a SERT, SE 257 and V/H slip-ons added.  The result was not as good as either of us expected, especially the torque at the low-end which was the goal.  The dealer has been very good and is willing to swap out the SE257 for a SE251 for me.  I am staying with HD parts for now due to warranty reasons.

Do you think this change will improve the torque in the 2500 to 4000 range over the 257 (or the stock cams)?

Thanks for your input to the board!

Doug

(I have posted the Dyno sheet if it helps)

Hey Doug, I'm using the 251's for that exact reason. I was told, if using SE cams, to use either the 251's for max TQ or the 260's w/compression for max power. I was told to stay away from the 257, 258 for these engines. Those cams also need compression, so you might as well use the 260. I'm also told that the 50mm TB will allow this setup to be properly tuned and get more flow thru the motor, for the best performance out of this combo. I'm expecting a TQ Monster! I guess I'll find out after it's built and retuned. Hoist!

[hdbrad03]

Boy that is hard to beleive only 97HP and 101 lbs torque?  The wife's dyno at 93 HP and 112 lbs torque with Suppertrapp SE, stock cams, K&N air filter and Power Comander. Went over 100 lbs at 2200 RPM - 4800 rpm. I would have thought the 260 would have alot higher HP.

[BlueFlames]

Those were my thoughts exactly and it's why the dealer is going to change it for free.  All dyno's are different, but even comparing to the stock pulls the 257 did not perform as they expected it to, at least not in my bike.

[Hoist!]

Those were my thoughts exactly and it's why the dealer is going to change it for free.  All dyno's are different, but even comparing to the stock pulls the 257 did not perform as they expected it to, at least not in my bike.

With the stock compression, you're better off with the 251's. You might want to think about the 50mm TB too. With slipons and stock headpipes, you should have better TQ, but sacrifice a little top end. You should have better TQ numbers than 101. Are these guys good tuners? Don't underestimate what that does to the end result. Hoist!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

One of the problems with a stock cam plate is lack of support on the pinion. Look at a evo cam cover they have a bushing that supports the end of the crank. HD dropped that with the T/C then they pulled the timken from the parts line up. SO what you have is a pinion that is allowed to move to freely. The new designed cam plate and cover are going back to a evo style set up. The cam plate and cam cover work together to keep the pinion supported. That in a nut shell is one of the features there are other that go along with it. The only draw back to it is , the overall thickness is greater than stock and some pipes will not work. The fat cat is one, they are working on sliming it down presently, I hope that can reduce the thickness enough to allow the 2-1 pipes with a wrap around head pipe to work. Time will tell.

[StreetDog]

  I 'm not seing very good numbers with some of these mods. I only got 106.5 hp and 100.73 tq. which increased to 108 hp and 104 with the quite baffle from D &D along with the other mods done earlier. What's holding these 110 motors back? Anyone know? Would the 50 mm TB be the answer. OR MAYBE there has not been a good cam mated for this motor yet. Anyone hear anything else. GMR Performance any ideas. Refer to my earlier post for the other mods.

[Hoist!]

  I 'm not seing very good numbers with some of these mods. I only got 106.5 hp and 100.73 tq. which increased to 108 hp and 104 with the quite baffle from D &D along with the other mods done earlier. What's holding these 110 motors back? Anyone know? Would the 50 mm TB be the answer. OR MAYBE there has not been a good cam mated for this motor yet. Anyone hear anything else. GMR Performance any ideas. Refer to my earlier post for the other mods.

Are you stock or have  cams? Those numbers aren't too bad for stock (pipes and A/C). But you hit the nail on the head. The engines need to be opened up and breathe. 50mm TB and cams should get you to 120/120 or better, depending on how good your tuner is. I'm expecting 120-125/130 or better with my build using all SE parts! We'll see if the predictions hold up! Hoist!

[StreetDog]

 Hoist, that's with 258 cams and more compression. I was told by the dealer that these numbers were better than they expected. I would like to know how some folks here are getting the 120 range numbers with less mods than I  had done. What are you doing. And you may have been mislead to believe you may get those high numbers. When are you going to have your mods done, can't wait to hear how it goes. Maybe it's my tuner, but don't think so. Suppose to be very good. 

[Hoist!]

Hoist, that's with 258 cams and more compression. I was told by the dealer that these numbers were better than they expected. I would like to know how some folks here are getting the 120 range numbers with less mods than I  had done. What are you doing. And you may have been mislead to believe you may get those high numbers. When are you going to have your mods done, can't wait to hear how it goes. Maybe it's my tuner, but don't think so. Suppose to be very good. 

I've not heard good results withe 258 or 257 cams in the 110's. That's why I stayed away from them. I'm going for more TQ and a more usable power band, Setting everything up for optimum use of the 251's, 50mm TB, and Fatcats. Might change the intake too. Tuner's expecting the numbers I posted before. He's getting 100 HP out of stock motors. My original tune was only 90/100 and decel popped like crazy. How'd you come up with the combo  you used? If you already have compression, you might want to try the 50 mm TB and the 260's, and retune. The 260's are supposed to be better with this motor. Should be around 120-125 HP. I'm believing that a really good tuner can squeeze more out of these things than your average tune gets you. I guess I won't know if I'm misled until I'm done and tested. But I think I did my homework. We'll see how it goes. Should be done in 2 weeks. Hoist!

[happyman]

One thing that I see is lack of the tq in the "normal" riding range. If you look at the RPM range that the avg guy rides in . After looking at thousands of hrs of run ,....what you will see is that the largest amount of riding time is spend in the 2-3 thousand rpm range.  

Second a stock 110 is in the low 9.1 range( based on varinace in chamber cc and PDH "piston deck height" ) so when choosing a cam you look at a few things the cams have to offer and THEN you ensure that the engine is able to properly support the cam. What I am saying is that a engine that does not have enough compression will end up producing a better mid and upper range power number on the dyno. But back to RPM riding range,.. myself would choose a cam that makes more tq in the range I ride in over one that produces a larger overall number. WHY?? well you spend so little time in that upper rpm range that is only looks good on paper, also one thing that goes unnoticed is rate of acceleration. This item can be seen on a dyno, in simple terms the question is asked " how long does it take to get to a certain speed or rpm number. If two engines both make the same numbers but one can achive it faster, that bike will win.

Now I understand that most of you do not build your bike to race but let's be truth full here we all like to wick the throttle now and then ( of course only at approved locations Ha Ha) SO what you feel is tq and rate of acceleration.

Where this is leading is this,..... A bike with a cam that is matched to your current compression ratio will provide more seat of the pants tq, and more fun. Over caming engines is a extremely easy thing to do. As well a common thing done today, we pull cams that are too large way too often. We install a cam that is suited to that current comp ratio re tune the bike. The owner will look at the dyno sheet and not have a smile, BUT when he rides the bike they will very quickly change there mind as the bike "feels" stonger to then. SO in fact we have a engine that is making less PEAK numbers but we have increase the amount of tq in the ride range.

Look at the dyno sheets with cams that have a later closing point, but are being used in a engine that is not producing as much compression as the cam needs,. and you will that there may be a increase in tq in the lower areas, ( slight) but the engines does not build as fast and once it gets into the 3000 range it starts to work. Now that is not stating all but from cams that are bolt in 110 cams. I have looked at other sheets as well myself have dyno'd many customers bikes with a bolt in cam for a 110. I will not state who's bolt in cam it was as that is not the issue. This is a issue of VE, you are unable to fill the cylinder efficiently in the low rpms due to the fact the cams later closing point is bleeding off compression, but as we increase rpm we build better VE.  Tq is nothing more than push on the piston with increase compression you have more push in a simple state term. Within reason.

 

GMR,
What is your opinion of the SE 253 Cam Am riding a 07 CVO Roadking mostly two up. also have no desire to do dyno shootouts just have a good  torq mortor that will have  durability  to go with the nice running.. also decent gas milage is getting to be something  that is rather important too..   may just do some very mild head work.. tried a  PC and mufflers,   at the 1000 mile   service.   it could not be made to run as good as the  thing came from  the  factotry...  tried  two differant PC and same results..it did have better #'s but it was  a  pig to ride and the sever dentonation was scarey as it gets
         Thanks                 Happy