Topic: 110 Base Gasket Leaking (Read 10180 times)

johnnymap · « **on:** August 22, 2007, 09:50:39 AM »

Last week I was cleaning on the bike and noticed oil residue on the block just inside the primary. Followed it around to the other side and could not really tell where it was coming from.

Long story short, took it to the dealer. They called yesterday and said the base gasket for the rear cylinder was leaking. They ordered the parts yesterday and said they would be in Thursday. Only going to do the rear. First it was the rocker box cover and now this. Will it ever end?

john

Chief · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:55:11 AM »

Quote from: johnnymap on August 22, 2007, 09:50:39 AM

Last week I was cleaning on the bike and noticed oil residue on the block just inside the primary. Followed it around to the other side and could not really tell where it was coming from.

Long story short, took it to the dealer. They called yesterday and said the base gasket for the rear cylinder was leaking. They ordered the parts yesterday and said they would be in Thursday. Only going to do the rear. First it was the rocker box cover and now this. Will it ever end?

john

John, it is probably the head gasket causing the problem, showing up at the cylinder base. There are plenty of members here suffering the same problem. I am on the second round. First time it was a new head gasket, revised gasket, and new base o-rings. 3,000 miles later and the smae is happening again, although this time, the leak at the base is more pronounced than the leak at the head gasket.

Chances are that what they will do will not fix the problem, only delay its reappearance. To educate yourself on the problems, do some searching on the site for Head Gasket, Compression Releases. There are some good pictures showing the failures too.

Welcome to the club.

Coyote. · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:51:25 AM »

Yup, what Chief said. I'm on my second round of attempted repairs as well. The head gasket leaks and the oil runs down the bolt holes and out the bottom. I even got the improved head gasket the first time but in only 20k miles, the leak started again. We'll see what happens next week after they try again.

Unbalanced · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:53:42 AM »

3rd round here and have had replacement rear jugg as well. I have posted some good pictures on the compression release thread as well what has transpired thus far with my bike.

good luck with it.

I am considering cometic 3 parts this next go around to see if it makes any difference.

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2007, 12:06:54 PM »

Got a Sweet little trick to locate oil leaks. Start out with a clean area that you think the leak is in. Then borrow the wife's spray on deodorant must have baby powder in it. Spray the area down let it dry, then take the bike for a short ride. The leak will be extremely visable even on silver engines. Leaks can be tricky some times as the air will blow the oil else where.

This has worked for use for years, and has saved us time , and we are able to pin point the leak the first time around.Clean up is easy some mild soap and water will remove all traces of the baby powder.

johnnymap · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2007, 05:02:04 PM »

Thanks guys for the input. I really did not want to be a part of this group, "Leaks Annonymous", but I guess I am.

I have seen the pictures of the head gasket leaking. I had been watching for that. There is no oil residue on the outside of the jugs. Is that what you are talking about? I have had the flash light out looking and not seen anything. The oil is all on the block.

I am disputing what you are saying, just trying to understand what is going on.

john

Coyote. · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2007, 05:06:09 PM »

It can actually appear to be leaking at the base when it's really the head gasket. My understanding is, once the oil gets past the head gasket, it can travel down the bolt holes and end up on the outside of the o-ring. I spent a fair amount of time with the regional factory support rep a few weeks ago. It would appear the moco is well aware of the problem. Now if they could just fix it.

Hoist! · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:29:01 PM »

Quote from: coyotedata on August 22, 2007, 05:06:09 PM

It can actually appear to be leaking at the base when it's really the head gasket. My understanding is, once the oil gets past the head gasket, it can travel down the bolt holes and end up on the outside of the o-ring. I spent a fair amount of time with the regional factory support rep a few weeks ago. It would appear the moco is well aware of the problem. Now if they could just fix it.

That's what's happening. The Base O-ring gasket seals the cylinder spigot to the case to prevent oil from the case to leak out of the cylinder base. If the oil is outside of the O-Ring, which it would be if it going past the head gasket and down th cylinder stud hole, then it would be on the outside of the O-ring. djkak explained why the gasket is inadequate. So this all makes perfect sense, and will never stop until they design a proper gasket for these engines! They can replace all the head gaskets, base gaskets and cylinders they want, but if they use the same parts, it will start leaking the same way all over again. And they got some set of balls putting us thru this over and over. Definition of an idiot is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. Well that's what they're doing and expect us to be idiots and accept that. Unfortunately for them, we're not idiots and won't stand for it. We should all get together and get a lawyer and start a Class Action Lawsuit to get them to see that this group of idiots won't stand for this any longer!!!

Hoist!

GasRat · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:31:36 PM »

This just really sucks. It wouldn't be so bad if the MOCO would just be up front and honest with us and the dealers. Mine goes in next week for the 3rd time. Same leak same spot, starts slow then progressively gets worse. My dealer didn't even know that they had a revised gasket, or so they said, the last two were off the shelf stock gaskets. I had them check into it and then they saw the new #. But as far as they are concerned they think that this is just an isolated incident. What to do? just grin and bear it I guess because I really love the bike otherwise. What really sucks is I only have 7000 miles on the thing.

johnnymap · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:32:32 PM »

I intened to say "I am not disputing......."

What both of you guys are saying makes sense. Is there a TSD out about this or they just handling it case by case?

john

Chief · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:37:22 PM »

Quote from: GasRat on August 22, 2007, 06:31:36 PM

This just really sucks. It wouldn't be so bad if the MOCO would just be up front and honest with us and the dealers. Mine goes in next week for the 3rd time. Same leak same spot, starts slow then progressively gets worse. My dealer didn't even know that they had a revised gasket, or so they said, the last two were off the shelf stock gaskets. I had them check into it and then they saw the new #. But as far as they are concerned they think that this is just an isolated incident. What to do? just grin and bear it I guess because I really love the bike otherwise. What really sucks is I only have 7000 miles on the thing.

I know its nothing to hang your hat on, but when I had mine in for the second time, the SM contacted the Powertrain Division and was told to not put on new parts right now. I think the important part of that coded message was the refernce to "now". This was taken to mean "We're looking into it and will be in touch." As of last Friday, no new news, but I'm still hoping.

There is also a chance that this is a total load of horse crap and they're just blowing smoke up our collective skirts.

Mine is weeping, but isn't too bad yet. I'm sure it will be getting worse with time.

Hopefully this chapter will end soon.

Hoist! · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:38:25 PM »

Quote from: johnnymap on August 22, 2007, 06:32:32 PM

I intened to say "I am not disputing......."

What both of you guys are saying makes sense. Is there a TSD out about this or they just handling it case by case?

john

Case by case and sweeping it under the carpet. Make believe they don't know anything about it. Treating us like fools! Enough is enough, I say. Who's up for a Lawsuit with the MoCo?

Hoist!

Chief · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:39:17 PM »

Quote from: Hoist on August 22, 2007, 06:38:25 PM

Case by case and sweeping it under the carpet. Make believe they don't know anything about it. Treating us like fools! Enough is enough, I say. Who's up for a Lawsuit with the MoCo?

Hoist!

I'm in. Just tell me where to sign.

GasRat · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2007, 06:43:01 PM »

The way I see it with mine, this should qualify under the Calif. Lemon law. I wonder what would happen if I tried to push the issue when this new gasket starts to leak?

Chief · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2007, 07:52:53 PM »

Quote from: GasRat on August 22, 2007, 06:43:01 PM

The way I see it with mine, this should qualify under the Calif. Lemon law. I wonder what would happen if I tried to push the issue when this new gasket starts to leak?

You'll probably lose out going after lemon law because the depreciation rate is horrendous.

GasRat · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2007, 08:43:09 PM »

Just went to the ca. consumer affairs web site and according to them it would be less than $1000.00 depreciation because they start depreciation from the point at which the first repair was made, and for me that would be 3000 miles. Question is what would you really gain from it .... another bike with the exact same motor.

Hoist! · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2007, 08:46:06 PM »

Quote from: GasRat on August 22, 2007, 08:43:09 PM

Just went to the ca. consumer affairs web site and according to them it would be less than $1000.00 depreciation because they start depreciation from the point at which the first repair was made, and for me that would be 3000 miles. Question is what would you really gain from it .... another bike with the exact same motor.

Lemon Law's not the answer. Forcing them to fix it properly is. That means Class Action Lawsuit. See thread on it in TC Section and sign up.

Hoist!

grc · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:01:28 PM »

I'm not totally familiar with California's lemon law, but if it is like most other states it only applies to safety items or items essential to the purpose of the product. For instance, a vehicle is expected to be able to transport you under it's own power. So my question is, would a gasket seepage issue qualify under the law? If it became bad enough to compromise safety or useability I would say definitely yes. But what if it just seeps/leaks?

Regardless, I would suggest that anyone with this issue fully document it in writing with the MoCo, copy to state and local consumer protection agencies. While we would all hope they eventually get off their duff and come up with a permanent fix, there's no guarantee they actually will. It may very well come down to lawsuits, and having everything fully documented can only help your cause.

Jerry

Hoist! · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:05:51 PM »

That's exactly why I started this http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=16060.0 To start documenting a history of everyone's promlems associated with this. We can get it all documented all in one place. If not, you guys will surely be left on your own to deal with it! I hope ya'll ain't chicken!

Hoist!

GasRat · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:19:16 PM »

clicked link, no go.

what up?

Hoist! · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:22:44 PM »

Quote from: GasRat on August 22, 2007, 09:19:16 PM

clicked link, no go. what up?

It was pulled by the mods for their review.

Hoist!

GasRat · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:29:51 PM »

See what you dun started.... now ya got the big brother involved.

skreminegul07 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:04:37 PM »

Quote from: Hoist on August 22, 2007, 09:22:44 PM

It was pulled by the mods for their review.

Hoist!

Surprised?

hard10 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:08:56 PM »

Quote from: Hoist on August 22, 2007, 09:22:44 PM

It was pulled by the mods for their review.

Hoist!

Dude, think of it this way, at least you had it up for 3 hours

.

Rhino · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:18:38 PM »

Just logged on, what you talkin about, Viagra or sumptin? Does Sassy know about this?
Rhino

Quote from: hard10 on August 22, 2007, 10:08:56 PM

Dude, think of it this way, at least you had it up for 3 hours .

ultrafxr · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:26:22 PM »

At my dealer today hoping to get my jester back (tomorrow morning will be buttoned up) after repair for leaking head gasket - 2nd time. SM said cylinder & sleeve had seperated and this is what caused failure both times. First replacement cylinder was pulled from a 110 upgrade kit they had in stock in effort to speed first repair. He suspects that this kit was probably mfg last fall or early this year and that there was a bad batch / problem with the cylinders that maybe (hopefully) has been resolved and this may fix it.

Sounds good but has anyone else been told this?

skreminegul07 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2007, 11:30:26 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on August 22, 2007, 10:26:22 PM

At my dealer today hoping to get my jester back (tomorrow morning will be buttoned up) after repair for leaking head gasket - 2nd time. SM said cylinder & sleeve had seperated and this is what caused failure both times. First replacement cylinder was pulled from a 110 upgrade kit they had in stock in effort to speed first repair. He suspects that this kit was probably mfg last fall or early this year and that there was a bad batch / problem with the cylinders that maybe (hopefully) has been resolved and this may fix it.

Sounds good but has anyone else been told this?

Do you know the part number of the replacement cylinder?

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #27 on:** August 23, 2007, 09:30:24 AM »

Hoist you causing problems again

Funny really. I do not know what it takes to get a bike in the lemon law but I had a customer that wanted his money back for the hot running, ping issue. After they flashed the bike , tuned it yada yada. They told him sorry but the bike fell under a "normal issue"

rednectum · « **Reply #28 on:** August 23, 2007, 09:34:29 AM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 23, 2007, 09:30:24 AM

Hoist you causing problems again Funny really. I do not know what it takes to get a bike in the lemon law but I had a customer that wanted his money back for the hot running, ping issue. After they flashed the bike , tuned it yada yada. They told him sorry but the bike fell under a "normal issue"

lol, dont they all? ITS NORMAL---------------------

miker · « **Reply #29 on:** August 23, 2007, 09:38:44 AM »

Quote from: rednectum on August 23, 2007, 09:34:29 AM

lol, dont they all? ITS NORMAL---------------------

Normal, like my old shovel...I was able to reduce the "normal" oil leaks by driving regularly on dirt roads and packing the cranky bitch with dirt...

GMR-PERFORMANCE · « **Reply #30 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:03:38 AM »

Gotta dig packing it full of dirt.

Had a customer bring a 74 shov by to look at it for leaks. I was not sure where to start, rocker shaft seals, crank seal, trans seal, oil pimp mounting, broken oil bag mount causing a rubber line to rub through, or just maybe that most basket case shov's leak and to save his money and just ride the bike

miker · « **Reply #31 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:11:00 AM »

You get some of the Georgia red clay or Ohio river basin goop and it'll stop up leaks like JB weld!
The VLD only seeped unitl I "cleaned" it up then it was a mess, thata why it went inot the 3 year resto and as it looks today. The only oil coming out now is supposed too!

Miker

Hoist! · « **Reply #32 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:31:04 AM »

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 23, 2007, 09:30:24 AM

Hoist you causing problems again Funny really. I do not know what it takes to get a bike in the lemon law but I had a customer that wanted his money back for the hot running, ping issue. After they flashed the bike , tuned it yada yada. They told him sorry but the bike fell under a "normal issue"

That's my middle name bro! Thought this might help others. I'm doing my own thing and taking care of things myself. No way no MoCo will get my bike running the way I want it!. FTF and FTW!

Hoist!

miker · « **Reply #33 on:** August 23, 2007, 11:42:30 AM »

Quote from: Hoist on August 23, 2007, 10:31:04 AM

That's my middle name bro! Thought this might help others. I'm doing my own thing and taking care of things myself. No way no MoCo will get my bike running the way I want it!. FTF and FTW!

Hoist!

Why wouldn't it be valid to organize?

Miker

Hoist! · « **Reply #34 on:** August 23, 2007, 12:03:53 PM »

Quote from: miker on August 23, 2007, 11:42:30 AM

Why wouldn't it be valid to organize?

Miker

Not my question to answer bro!

Hoist!

albud · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2007, 07:59:14 PM »

Hi John

I too have had similar problems...I have the same bike as yourself and took delivery March 07 but I'm on my THIRD repairafter approx 6000 miles.....this time however i am waiting for replacement cylinder(s).....the problem stems from the fact that the rear cyinder overheats... the cylinder then warps and then gaskets keep blowing all the time. Ask your dealer to look into replacing the warped cylinder......My dealer tells me I should not be riding in hot countrys and even more important...don't ride in parades in hot weather.......but its what we do !!!

PS....We don't get too much hot weatherin Scotland

All the best...Al Bud

grc · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2007, 09:01:28 PM »

Quote from: albud on August 30, 2007, 07:59:14 PM

Hi John

I too have had similar problems...I have the same bike as yourself and took delivery March 07 but I'm on my THIRD repairafter approx 6000 miles.....this time however i am waiting for replacement cylinder(s).....the problem stems from the fact that the rear cyinder overheats... the cylinder then warps and then gaskets keep blowing all the time. Ask your dealer to look into replacing the warped cylinder......My dealer tells me I should not be riding in hot countrys and even more important...don't ride in parades in hot weather.......but its what we do !!!

PS....We don't get too much hot weatherin Scotland

All the best...Al Bud

And I thought it was just the American Harley dealers who were full of chit. Looks like it's a world-wide epidemic!

Gotta love 'em; don't ride in the heat, don't ride in the rain (may screw up the electrical stuff), don't ride over 75 mph (might wobble), etc., etc. It looks like what I've always suspected is actually true, H-D designs these things to just sit in the garage and look pretty. Probably should have a decal on the top of the tank: "Caution, actually riding this motorcycle may result in mechanical or electrical failure. Harley-Davidson accepts no responsibility for failures due to actual use of our products."

Jerry

Author Topic: 110 Base Gasket Leaking (Read 10180 times)

Rhino