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[opee1]

Has anyone changed the pistons on their 103" to increase the compression. One of my local HD stealers tells me that HD makes pistons to match the low compression stock heads on my SEEG and the other dealer says that HD says the stock heads won't work with more compression. I'm trying to get the potential out of this motor and can't get the same recommendation from any two people. Any suggestions are welcome.

Opee

[kng103]

Has anyone changed the pistons on their 103" to increase the compression. One of my local HD stealers tells me that HD makes pistons to match the low compression stock heads on my SEEG and the other dealer says that HD says the stock heads won't work with more compression. I'm trying to get the potential out of this motor and can't get the same recommendation from any two people. Any suggestions are welcome.

Opee

i had my heads street ported. minimal work, just cleaned up a bit.
i had heavier valve springs put in and changed over to the 251 cam.
also had the clearance between the pistons and the valves set.                                      
i think they shaved around 30,000 of an inch off.
it's like riding a different bike.
my dealer also told me not to do a piston change without either changing out the heads,or doing some major work on the heads i have.
i like the se-103 script on the heads and did not want to change them out.
i  am happy with the motor now. runs real strong.
if i wanted to get crazy, i would go with the jims120.
just my 2 cents.

[Spook_103]

I changed the heads to HTCC CNC heads with mathching 10.5 to one pistons and the SE258 cam.  I had the compression releases also installed.  All told, it cost somewhere north of $3500 with the Race Tuner.  The bike now runs like it should have in the first place.  Much smoother, gobs more power and that is with just the Vance and Hines slip ons.  Like Hubbard says, speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?  Spook.

[opee1]

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to take it all the way, if I'm going to do it at all. Here's what my local HD "gear head" recommends...SE HTCC heads, HTCC 10.5:1 pistons, compression releases, race tuner, S & S gear drive with either 570G,585G, or 625G cams, SE breather kit, Fueling super oil pump, high flow lifter kit, quick install adjustable push rods, and a thunder header or propipe. All together the grand total(with my 20% discount on the parts) is $4248. Still not sure if I want to put this much money into this bike, but why swallow the elephant and choke on the tail lol. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Opee

[hd2003-se2005]

[kng103]

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to take it all the way, if I'm going to do it at all. Here's what my local HD "gear head" recommends...SE HTCC heads, HTCC 10.5:1 pistons, compression releases, race tuner, S & S gear drive with either 570G,585G, or 625G cams, SE breather kit, Fueling super oil pump, high flow lifter kit, quick install adjustable push rods, and a thunder header or propipe. All together the grand total(with my 20% discount on the parts) is $4248. Still not sure if I want to put this much money into this bike, but why swallow the elephant and choke on the tail lol. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Opee

if you are changing out the heads, you don't need adjustable pushrods. use the perfect fit ones.

[DCFIREMANN]

OPEE: Use the S&S 585 gear drive cams and breather also you can send your heads out and have them reworked not cheap but worth it, you can do without the compression releases . If you are looking for a go fast shop that can do it e mail me and I'll give you thier number. H/D also makes a non HTCC piston for the 103 that are 10.5 to1. I would run the crane time savers and a set of crane or S&S lifters with roller rockers. You don't need the oil pump the one you have will do just fine. You will need to do something with you throttle body. Either get yours modified or call Zippers they make a 50 mm unit for your bike. I also would not use the race tuner a power commander or Zippers ECM. Also the Thunder header for sure. It sounds great and works well.

[HUBBARD]

if you are changing out the heads, you don't need adjustable pushrods. use the perfect fit ones.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 I know things are a lot different North of the Mason/Dixon Line [smiley=oops.gif], however, I believe the gearhead's advice to opee1 holds true in all Real Estate. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Perfect-fit push-rods are for completely STOCK Engines.  There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBARD  

[Skippy620]

Opee1 -
Are you woking with a dealer Columbus ?
Just curious ... I'm also in the central Ohio area and interested in some mods to my 103.
Thanks

[kng103]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 

[kng103]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 

[the O`Fender]

I'm with Hubbard, perfect fit for stock motors adjustable for any modified motors (i don't think harley makes perfect fit for anybodies cams but their own), and the gearheads in jersey recommend aluminum over chrome moly because the aluminum is more forgiving if sumthin breaks!!! oh yeah if you don't like the cam you choose with the adjustable pushrods you won't need to remove the rocker boxes to install a different one. [smiley=oops.gif]

[kng103]

I'm with Hubbard, perfect fit for stock motors adjustable for any modified motors (i don't think harley makes perfect fit for anybodies cams but their own), and the gearheads in jersey recommend aluminum over chrome moly because the aluminum is more forgiving if sumthin breaks!!! oh yeah if you don't like the cam you choose with the adjustable pushrods you won't need to remove the rocker boxes to install a different one. [smiley=oops.gif]

the pushrods are all the same length. it doesn't matter what or whos cam you choose.
using the adjustable pushrods only makes sense if you are not removing the heads.
this is not somthing i am making up!
ask any engine builder.
and if you are not 100% sure on the specs of your heads, they should be removed and clearances and tolerances checked.
you guy's do what you want.
i am just trying to help.

[HUBBARD]

the pushrods are all the same length. it doesn't matter what or whos cam you choose.
using the adjustable pushrods only makes sense if you are not removing the heads.
this is not somthing i am making up!
ask any engine builder.
and if you are not 100% sure on the specs of your heads, they should be removed and clearances and tolerances checked.
you guy's do what you want.
i am just trying to help.

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 I usually will do what I want, and I appreciate your input in trying to help.  My replies to topics on this site are reflections of my opinion, and my opinion only, of the subject being discussed.  My Engine Builder recommended the adjustable push rods to me for the same reason O'Fender mentioned.  You are right in that the push rods for 88", 95", and 103" Engines are the same length.  Not the case with my Motor.  At any rate, chill out, kng!  Did you not take your medication, today?  No one's accusing you of making up things!  I think you're stressed out!  Maybe you need some of that stuff in the Mason Jar ol' hd2003 was talkin' about.  I bet there ain't been any of that chit north of the Mason/Dixon Line since Capone checked out!  Later--HUBBARD        

[kng103]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 

[hd2003-se2005]

 [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I think KNG is starting to catch on to you "Tater"

[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[HUBBARD]

you are a mad man!!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 I thought I are a "Tater!"  Now, I are a "Mad-Man Tater!"  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Later--HUBBARD  

[DCFIREMANN]

If you run an agressive cam that will rev in the 6 k range your stock lifters with your perfect fit pushrods will be out ran by a motor with stock lifters with travel limiters or aftermarket performance lifters and adjustable push rods. THAT IS A FACT. If both motors are set up exactally the same.

Why would you pay the same amount for perfect fit when you can have adjustables? My guess would be if you don't know how to properly adjust valve lash!

[HUBBARD]

If you run an agressive cam that will rev in the 6 k range your stock lifters with your perfect fit pushrods will be out ran by a motor with stock lifters with travel limiters or aftermarket performance lifters and adjustable push rods. THAT IS A FACT. If both motors are set up exactally the same.

 Why would you pay the same amount for perfect fit when you can have adjustables? My guess would be if you don't know how to properly adjust valve lash!

Yeah, 'er 'uh, DCFIREMAN,
 You took the words right out of my mouth! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  Later--HUBBARD

[DCFIREMANN]

Can we get back on topic here?

What kind of compression(those who have changed anything) are you running?
Some people have talked about changing pistons and some have talked about cutting the deck surfaces on thier heads and some may have done both. Also are you running fuel injection or a carb?

After doing these changes what kind of cylinder pressures are you getting and how is your fuel injection reacting even with changes in the map? Increase in cylinder pressures will increase cylinder heat and will in turn make a lean condition in the cylinder. Even with changes in your map to richen up the cylinder you could be fighting a losing battle not to mention the strain on the lower end of the motor.

These are some of the problems you will face when we try to add to much compression. These are also just some of the things you need to think about when doing engine modifactions.  A good setup for a fuelie in our 103's will most likely be compression in the 10.0 to 1 range, a cam with a lot of lift and lower duration and a change of some type in your throttle body. The throttle body could be modified or you can purchase a larger aftermarket  unit. The throttle body on our SEEG's is Harleys 43 mm screamin eagle unit. Zippers performance makes a 50 and 54 mm unit. I did just purchase a 50mm unit and I am going to install it on Sunday with thier Thunderheart ECM already programed for the new unit.

After I get this done I will let you know how it runs. I will try to get some dyno time in the next week or so since I already have a good base line.

Right now the bike has an air cleaner kit, thunder header and a power commander. The bike dynoed at 98 hp and 108 ft lbs. Stay Safe.

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

Fireman

At this time are you also doing anything to the heads or changing cams?

[DCFIREMANN]

HD not till I get back from Myrtle Beach.

I have a new set of Harley H/C pistons for the 103 stroker. I think I am going to use them as of right now. I have also decided on cams(gear driven). As far as the heads go I am going to install the cams and measure static pressure before I make a decision on decking.I am trying to stay right around 10.to1. The ports are the largest of all of the Harley heads but will need to cleaned up at the least. I think the valve size is ok. The valves will be changed as will the springs and collars and keepers. As I said eariler I am going to use Zippers 50 mm throttle body,intake and air cleaner. I promise to keep everyone posted on this engine build up. I am looking for H/P numbers around 110 and the torque numbers at least the same if not higher.

I have access to a dyno on the weekends so I will be able to see if this combo works  
The reason I am going in this direction is I bought a special edition bike. I am saving everything that is taken off during the build and added chrome. I want the bike to look as stock as it can(exhaust and 6 speed) so this is why I am staying with the 103 motor and the 103 heads. Stay Safe.

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

Fireman

Your expectation of the changes you are making seem realistic, maybe even a little low.

I'm like you, I want to keep the SEEG stock appearing (well ok pipes).

It's amazing to me how little there is on improving these fuel injected bikes.
My 95" Lowrider has a Mikuni and for carbed bikes the world is at your fingertips.

Keep us informed on your progress!

[B767capt]

This is a great thread.  I just got my 103 back a few weeks ago.  I went with the new SE 103 stroker + piston at .005 over.  It is supposed to be 10.5:1.  Put a .030 head gasket on it and should be 10.7-10.8.  Went with S&S roller rockers, Wood TW400G gear cams,(.652Lift).  HP inc 53 mm TB and compression releases.  The heads were sent to Underground.  Also Wood springs.  We dynoed after break in with the stock TB and then with the 53TB.  They were initially worried the much larger TB might loose velocity which would mean bottom TQ, but we were happy with the results.  The TQ was the same to 3500. After 3500 both curves jumped up.  I know your not going to believe it, but it has NO noise from the valves or gear drives.  It was dynoed with the new PClll laying over the race tuner which I had before the build.  The thing is smoother than when bone stock from Harley.  I know it's richer as the plugs are now brown, not bone white like before.  Also have Rineharts which were on from day one.  The dyno is 124.5 TQ and 115 HP.  The conditions were awful, with very high humidity (90%) and in the mid 80's.  Builder talked to Bob Wood and they think in ideal conditions it would be 118-119HP to 128-129 TQ.   The thing about pulls my arms out of their sockets.  Mileage is good at the 180 mile mark, I put in 4.5 gallons.  I used Bob Wood's close friend for the build and they had not done a CVO motor yet.  Bob was in on build as they did not want to butcher the heads being CVO trying to get to 10.5.   That's why I went with the new SE piston.  
The heads cc'd out at 94.  I used to have a little valve ticking noise in the head when it was stock and hot.  Not now, they boosted the oil pressure with a new stiffer spring.  I was very lucky as my crank run out was perfect.  One other item to add was my oil pump was about to give up.  Scarred very badly with 8600 miles on the meter.  I was lucky to have it torn down when I did.

[DCFIREMANN]

CAPT THOSE ARE GREAT NUMBERS FOR A FUELIE! I am still going to stay around 10. to 1 on my compression and I don't want a cam with that much duration. I will bet that thing sounds great though. One question I have is did they do anything with case bearing ? Or was yours a year before the change?

Good luck with it. I think you will still need to get a little more dyno time when the humidity comes down. If you can get humidity below 50% and an ambient temp of 70 to 75 watch out. Stay safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

I AM SO DUMB!!!!!! It must be from lack of sleep!

If you want to change your pistons the harley part number for .005 103 forged 10.5 to 1 is 22484-04 the 010 number is 22485-04

These pistons are 5 over and your cylinders will have to be fitted to the new pistons. But that is a good thing now you know you will have the right piston to wall clearence.
Stay safe

THE DAWG

[B767capt]

No I didn't have the case split, but I debated that.  I'll keep my fingeres crossed.  If i ever have to have the case split, I'll do the bearings.

[SHRADER]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 

[DCFIREMANN]

SHRADER  Yes the perfect fit pushrods come in different lengths. But I still say THEY AIN'T WORTH A CHIT!!!!!!!

A proverb from THE DAWG! They must have made them for people who don't know what valve lash is or how to adjust it!

THERE ENDITH: Lesson three

Stay Safe.

THE DAWG

[SHRADER]

Can we get back on topic here?

What kind of compression(those who have changed anything) are you running?
Some people have talked about changing pistons and some have talked about cutting the deck surfaces on thier heads and some may have done both. Also are you running fuel injection or a carb?

After doing these changes what kind of cylinder pressures are you getting and how is your fuel injection reacting even with changes in the map? Increase in cylinder pressures will increase cylinder heat and will in turn make a lean condition in the cylinder. Even with changes in your map to richen up the cylinder you could be fighting a losing battle not to mention the strain on the lower end of the motor.

These are some of the problems you will face when we try to add to much compression. These are also just some of the things you need to think about when doing engine modifactions.

[DCFIREMANN]

SHRADER  The rockers are non adjustable but the adjustable pushrods are not. When I do a cam change the pushrods get changed! No if and or buts. The cost is only 120.00. When you spend the kind of money that was spent to do the upgrades that little bit more won't hurt. I also never run stock lifters with a cam change. Stock lifters are just that STOCK. With the extra pressures from the valve springs and the high lift of the cam I personally think they will not open the valve as they were designed to. Also the perfect fit pushrods are designed for certain cams and springs and heads that harley sells. I'm sure they can be used for other applications but I am not ready to experiment with them!

Hence lesson four: You can take a stock lifter and disassemble it and add travel limiters for about 12 dollars. When you do this adjusting the valves takes on a whole new perspective. If you use you stock pushrods or even perfect fit it you will listen to a lot of valve train noise. that is where your adjustable pushrods come in.If you use an aftermarket lifter they have a certain number of FLATS after all lash is taken out for them to be properly adjusted! It really is not that hard but worth the extra H/P and torq.

Yes I have a different throttle body. I have not installed it as of yet. I might get around to it today. It is a Zippers 50mm throttle body. When installed you need to do an ECM update. I purchased a Zippers Thunder heart ECM last week(which you don't have too buy). They have already preprogramed it for my setup with a base map. I have the program to make changes when I get the bike back on the dyno. The new ECM can do a lot more than the stock harley unit with a power commander or the race tuner. They are doing a lot of R&D with the unit right now. They tell me the throttle response is a lot smoother and more responsive. I will let eveyone know how it works. Stay safe.

THE DAWG

 

[SHRADER]

SHRADER

[DCFIREMANN]

Harley Davidson P/N 27615.00 pro 43mm EFI Induction Module Kit So they do make it. I will check the parts catalog tomorrow on the stock part number on the SEEG and the Ultra Glide Models.

Now you missed my point on adjustables I never said they were junk I said the perfect fit IMHO were junk! I love adjustables and will use nothing but once I go into the valve train on any of my motors.  Yes you are correct you want to be a light as you can and retain the correct geomentry(sorry for the spelling)

Adjusting stock lifters would depend on the pushrods you are using. IE fine thread or coarse thread. So the number of flats will be different on different models. Rule of thumb would be to take out all of your lash and then go .100 of an inch more. So you need to measure how many flats that would be on your pushrods. I hope this helps you.

THEREENTH ENDETH LESSON THREE!!!!!

Stay safe
THE DAWG

[SHRADER]

Has anyone changed the pistons on their 103" to increase the compression. One of my local HD stealers tells me that HD makes pistons to match the low compression stock heads on my SEEG and the other dealer says that HD says the stock heads won't work with more compression. I'm trying to get the potential out of this motor and can't get the same recommendation from any two people. Any suggestions are welcome.

Opee

I've read this thread and don't believe anyone has answered Opee's origininal question.
As of this writing H-D does not make a piston that is compatable with the stock SE103 heads that will increase the stock compression ratio.PERIOD

REGARDS
SHRADER

[SHRADER]

Harley Davidson P/N 27615.00 pro 43mm EFI Induction Module Kit So they do make it. I will check the parts catalog tomorrow on the stock part number on the SEEG and the Ultra Glide Models.

Now you missed my point on adjustables I never said they were junk I said the perfect fit IMHO were junk! I love adjustables and will use nothing but once I go into the valve train on any of my motors.

[DCFIREMANN]

I know that but you said they don't make one!!!!! So I gave you a part number!

If you read back somewhere I did post part numbers for pistons to increase the 103 motor to 10.5 to 1 uncorrected. The numbers are as follows standard bore 22483-04 plus .005 22484-04 plus .010 22485-04. So we now have an answer for OPEE. They better be the right ones because I have a set setting in my shop waiting till after Myrtle to install them!

I was under the myth that the SEEG had a different throttle body if I am wrong I stand corrected. All I do know is mine has a Zippers 50mm throttle body. I did make a call today to see what size the standard throttle was and the guru did not know but would check and let me know tomorrow. It is either 38mm or 40mm. I still thought the SE models had a larger bore but if I am wrong it isn't the first time and I am sure it won't be the last! Stay safe.

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

Here I go!

Have to give this one to Shrader.

DAWG, on your reply # 19 you said "the throttle body on our SEEG is Harley's 43mm,,,etc.

After reading Shraders post I whipped out the S/E catalog.

Page 29 item B,  Part # 27615-00  Screaming Eagle Pro 43mm EFI induction module kit.
It states " This larger bore (43mm versus 38mm stock), etc.
Also is listed for just use on 99-01 Twin Cam

No lesson here, I just appreciate the knowledge and experience both you and Shrader bring to the site.

And "Tater" see if you can get me a spot in that "How to win Friends and influence people class"

[smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[HUBBARD]

Here I go!

Have to give this one to Shrader.

DAWG, on your reply # 19 you said "the throttle body on our SEEG is Harley's 43mm,,,etc.

After reading Shraders post I whipped out the S/E catalog.

Page 29 item B,

[DCFIREMANN]

Hd you are correct Shrader told me that the motor company didn't make one . I just simply replied that they did. I knew it was a replacement for the M&M fuel injection but he asked. I was and I still am under the impression the the SEEG has a larger throttle body. I might be wrong and I am going to check tomorrow. I have a service manuel for the SEEG but not a parts manuel. I think the dealer told me that it was a different throttle body. I will post the results tomorrow. I do know you can get the factory throttle body bored out as I do have one I was going to use, but went with the Zippers 50mm throttle body instead.

Shrader I did check the parts book and those part numbers I posted  for the pistons are good numbers.Stay safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, hd2003,
 

[DCFIREMANN]

I've read this thread and don't believe anyone has answered Opee's origininal question.
As of this writing H-D does not make a piston that is compatable with the stock SE103 heads that will increase the stock compression ratio.PERIOD

REGARDS
SHRADER

See post number 25!!!! Those are good numbers.

Page 46 in the Harley go fast parts catalog under "B"These big bore pistons feature a unique dome shape that is matched to the SCREAMIN EAGLE 103 cylinder heads to maximize horsepower output!

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

Hey DAWG

Let us know about that throttle body inquiry!

I would like to know what size the one is on my 103.

Shrader?? you know? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

DAWG

And as for the adjustable pushrods. I have them in mine, but you talk like they are junk
when anybody who knows anything about motors will tell you that the lighter you can make the valve train components, while maintaining the appropriate strength, the better it will be. All I'm saying is that there are pushrods available for specific applications using specific SE components that are a viable alternative to adjustable pushrods.

Now HOW DO YOU SET THE VALVE LASH ON A STOCK ENGINE?

THEREETH ENDETH LESSON ??

SHRADER

I GUESS YOU NEED TO LOOK BACK AT REPLIES 17,28,30 Read very carefully there was never anything said about adjustables being junk!!!!!

NOW ISN'T THIS FUN AND WHERE IS THE KING WHEN YOU NEED HIM??

SHRADER 1
THE DAWG 2

Stay safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

I hope everyone takes my last couple of post in good fun! I know I have.

I am going to check part numbers tomorrow and will let everyone know!

Stay safe

THE DAWG

[hd2003-se2005]

I hope everyone takes my last couple of post in good fun! I know I have.

Hey Dawg, your cool, just keep on with the info! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

But on another note,,

I remember someone quoting something somewhere from Rodney King. [smiley=laugh.gif]

later [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

HD I promise this is all in good fun. We all need this info and everyone benefits from this board. So I want to get along with everyone even RODNEY KING!

Shrader no bad feelings here just some good and some bad info. Stay safe

THE DAWG

[SHRADER]

I know that but you said they don't make one!!!!! So I gave you a part number!

If you read back somewhere I did post part numbers for pistons to increase the 103 motor to 10.5 to 1 uncorrected. The numbers are as follows standard bore 22483-04 plus .005 22484-04 plus .010 22485-04. So we now have an answer for OPEE. They better be the right ones because I have a set setting in my shop waiting till after Myrtle to install them!



I was under the myth that the SEEG had a different throttle body if I am wrong I stand corrected. All I do know is mine has a Zippers 50mm throttle body. I did make a call today to see what size the standard throttle was and the guru did not know but would check and let me know tomorrow. It is either 38mm or 40mm. I still thought the SE models had a larger bore but if I am wrong it isn't the first time and I am sure it won't be the last! Stay safe.

THE DAWG

Dawg

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THESE PISTONS IN YOUR STOCK HEADS!!!
READ CLOSELY DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THESE PISTONS.

If you read the description for usage closely you will find that these pistons are to be used for the 103 + (plus) heads. Your stock heads are not these heads part number 17072-03 page 42 item and you will tear up major chit. These heads are basically as cast versions of the CNC ported HTCC heads with a slightly larger intake valve.

I don't know who sold them to you but they will not work without modifcation.

As I said H-D does not offer Higher Compression Pistons for the 103 (NOT PLUS) heads.

As for the size of the stock throttle body-the 95-01 M&M stock throttle body is a dual throat 38mm unit. The stock Delphi throttle body used on softails since 01 and all efi since 02 is 43mm and it is a single throat. And I don't have to call nobody.

And about the 43mm throttle body part number thing-we were talking about an 04 SEEG. Try to get your part number on it and ride it.


SHRADER 2
DAWG broke motor

REGARDS
SHRADER

[SHRADER]

I GUESS YOU NEED TO LOOK BACK AT REPLIES 17,28,30 Read very carefully there was never anything said about adjustables being junk!!!!!

NOW ISN'T THIS FUN AND WHERE IS THE KING WHEN YOU NEED HIM??

SHRADER 1
THE DAWG 2

Stay safe

THE DAWG

You are correct-I meant to type Non-ADJUSTABLE

REGARDS
SHRADER

[SHRADER]

Hey DAWG

Let us know about that throttle body inquiry!

I would like to know what size the one is on my 103.

Shrader?? you know? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

43mm at the butterly

REGARDS
SHRADER

[DCFIREMANN]

Shrader you are correct they fit they 103+ heads.  I did go back and read the catalog and saw the little + mark next to the 103.

The dealer that sold them to me and stated they will work. I had a stock head off of a 103 (not the plus) heads and took it to my local machinest. He was going to do the mods and that is also why I went with .005 over on the pistons so he could set piston to wall clearences. When him and I talked last fall he did say something about the bath tub and I really am not sure what the out come was. But you will know when I do the work in about a month or so. I was and still am going to do a lot performance mods to the factory heads. As I stated I want the bike to look as stock as posible.  

I am going to check throttle body numbers on the SEEG and ultra for that year. Also check the size. I will let eveyone know what the out come is.

Shrader thanks for the info. Stay safe.

THE DAWG  

[SHRADER]

Shrader you are correct they fit they 103+ heads.

[SHRADER]

Here I go!

Have to give this one to Shrader.

DAWG, on your reply # 19 you said "the throttle body on our SEEG is Harley's 43mm,,,etc.

After reading Shraders post I whipped out the S/E catalog.

Page 29 item B,

[hd2003-se2005]

Thanks to Mr. Shrader and the Dawg

Two grown men disagreeing, but eventually getting it resolved.

No cuss words!

No personal attacks.

No one being someone's puppet.

That's how it should be!

"Tater", I say again, you are right about the Indian and the yankees.
Great teams [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

.

[SHRADER]

Thanks to Mr. Shrader and the Dawg

Two grown men disagreeing, but eventually getting it resolved.

No cuss words!

No personal attacks.

No one being someone's puppet.

That's how it should be!

"Tater", I say again, you are right about the Indian and the yankees.
Great teams [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

.

Can't say I didn't want to cuss a time or two. Maybe that there Dale Carnegie stuff is working after all.

Oh Chip, I know you'll enjoy this, seems OTIS just called and he's dug up some of Hubbards old wedding pictures. He's supposed to post 'em directly.

REGARDS
SHRADER

[hd2003-se2005]

 [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

Can't wait to see them!

Otis for president! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Otis for president! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

It may be Otis for Pres and Vice President Tater.  But after everything that's come  along in this thread today there's no doubt it's Shrader for Chief of Staff and White House Motorcycle Mechanic (WHMM).  Dawg gets to come put out the fires we start when the rest of us are invited to come visit  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[SHRADER]

It may be Otis for Pres and Vice President Tater.

[DCFIREMANN]

You guys are killing me. Instead of fighting all of those fires(I'm kinda gettin tired of that) can I be Shraders assistant? I promise I won't use any bad words!!!!!!!

Stay safe.

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Shrader since you do this chit for a living! Now I'm not bashing this is a serious question. Back in the hay day of the Evo there was a guy from up north (can't remember where) that had a design for the evo head that made goobs of horsepower. He did a little welding and filling of the evo head and walah he designed a hemi combustion chamber and had pistons to match. That claimed worked very well. I don't have any frist hand experience with his work so I don't know for sure.

I have to look back in my archives and see if I have any notes but I'm wondering if this guy is still in business and did he try the same thing for the two cammer?  If he did he just might  have a piston to match the huge combustion chamber for these heads.

Just a thought. Stay safe.

THE DAWG

[B767capt]

I can clear some of this up.

[SHRADER]

Shrader since you do this chit for a living! Now I'm not bashing this is a serious question. Back in the hay day of the Evo there was a guy from up north (can't remember where) that had a design for the evo head that made goobs of horsepower. He did a little welding and filling of the evo head and walah he designed a hemi combustion chamber and had pistons to match. That claimed worked very well. I don't have any frist hand experience with his work so I don't know for sure.

I have to look back in my archives and see if I have any notes but I'm wondering if this guy is still in business and did he try the same thing for the two cammer?

[SHRADER]

I can clear some of this up.

[kng103]

Shrader since you do this chit for a living! Now I'm not bashing this is a serious question. Back in the hay day of the Evo there was a guy from up north (can't remember where) that had a design for the evo head that made goobs of horsepower. He did a little welding and filling of the evo head and walah he designed a hemi combustion chamber and had pistons to match. That claimed worked very well. I don't have any frist hand experience with his work so I don't know for sure.

I have to look back in my archives and see if I have any notes but I'm wondering if this guy is still in business and did he try the same thing for the two cammer?

[opee1]

Thanks a million for all the great information on this subject. I'm glad now that I went with the advice from the HD stealer that said to change the heads if I wanted to increase the compression. My final mods are as follows...HTCC ported heads, race tuner, push rods, lifters, thunderheader, fueling oil pump, S & S gear drive with 570g cams and of couse 10:1  SE pistons. God I hope this is going to be a good combonation. No 2 people ever seem to agree on the best things to do. But taking bits and pieces from everyone, I believe this combonation should perform very well for a bike that I intend to ride and not drag race. Thanks again and I'll post my results when I have the bike dyno'd.

Opee

[the O`Fender]

Thanks a million for all the great information on this subject. I'm glad now that I went with the advice from the HD stealer that said to change the heads if I wanted to increase the compression. My final mods are as follows...HTCC ported heads, race tuner, push rods, lifters, thunderheader, fueling oil pump, S & S gear drive with 570g cams and of couse 10:1  SE pistons. God I hope this is going to be a good combonation. No 2 people ever seem to agree on the best things to do. But taking bits and pieces from everyone, I believe this combonation should perform very well for a bike that I intend to ride and not drag race. Thanks again and I'll post my results when I have the bike dyno'd.

opee are you going with the cast or the forged pistons?

Opee

[Twolanerider]

http://www.hemidesign.com/

Kng, please tell MFG thanks for the link.

[kng103]

Kng, please tell MFG thanks for the link.

don't you have google?

[Twolanerider]

don't you have google?

What would having Google have to do with expressing thanks for a link being posted ?

[kng103]

What would having Google have to do with expressing thanks for a link being posted ?

looked it up on google all by myself.
can you believe it?

[kng103]

here is another link
http://www.cycledoctor.com/JohnsonArticles/JET.html

[opee1]

The pistons are HTCC forged 10.5:1

Opee

[kng103]

here's another link. it's really not that hard to find them.
http://www.maxtengines.com/pages/437698/index.htm

[hd2003-se2005]

Kng, please tell MFG thanks for the link.


And also thanks in advance for the pins!

He said he was shipping them on the 21st.

Probably there by now! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

Or I might find them on Google. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[kng103]

Thanks a million for all the great information on this subject. I'm glad now that I went with the advice from the HD stealer that said to change the heads if I wanted to increase the compression. My final mods are as follows...HTCC ported heads, race tuner, push rods, lifters, thunderheader, fueling oil pump, S & S gear drive with 570g cams and of couse 10:1

[kng103]

Dude,

As soon as I started reading this I got to thinking that I have stated ephatically that the stocker is 43mm, when in fact it is 45 mm. Maybe when we were talking about the 43mm screamin eagle throttle body I got a wire crossed in my brain. Thanks for straightening this out.

REGARDS
SHRADER

shrader,
i thought the stocker was 44mm.

[SHRADER]

Guys,

What is a HD stealer?

Please Advise
SHRADER

[OTIS]

Guys,

What is a HD stealer?

ASK THE PECKER FROM NY      

                                                            OTIS [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

I think he meant to say DARLEY DAVIDSON DEALER. So people refer to them as the STEALER because of thier high prices.

Thank God I'm from Maryland!!!!!! Stay Safe.

THE DAWG

[kng103]

Guys,

What is a HD stealer?

 ASK THE PECKER FROM NY

[Fatboy]

The "stealer" I believe Opee is refering to is Centennial Park Harley Davidson in Pataskala, Ohio.

Home of the $5000 bump over MSRP on SEEG's and $1500 on most other new bikes(last time I checked), $78.00 per hour shop rate for Jack Knife Mechanics and they charge for set up ($300.00)on new bikes which the factory already paid them to perform and....and ...and.....I could keep venting but I think you get the point!

I believe Opee's euphorism is an accurate description of our local dealer! Stop on by and then you will want to help spread the love.

[opee1]

Actually as a preferred customer, I was only charged MSRP for my SEEG. What a deal!!!! In Centennial Park's defense, they are the best local dealer that I've dealt with.

Opee

[HUBBARD]

Guys,

What is a HD stealer?

Please Advise
SHRADER

Yo' SHRADER,
 That's who signs your check! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  Later--HUBBARD

[SHRADER]

Yo' SHRADER,
 

[Fatboy]

Hey folks,

Anyone business or businessman is entitled to make a fair and reasonable profit. (Its good for the guy to still be there tomorrow !) "Fair and Reasonable" differs from situation to situation and personal opinion to personal opinion. And in some cases paying a premium price may be worthwhile if your getting what you paid for! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

But when you can't consistantly justify or deliver that premium product or service then you fall into the now infamous "Stealer" category in my eyes....... [smiley=furious.gif]

I have dealt with many HD shops over the years and have had both good and bad experience's. Locally, in Central Ohio, there are some issue's with the way the dealer's treat us. Pricing and quality of service are just the tip of the Iceberg.

[opee1]

Nice to see you sold your UC Fatboy. Planning on going to Jilly's this week?

Opee

[Fatboy]

Yeah bro, sorry to see her go that is until I went to the bank..........

[opee1]

Yeah bro, sorry to see her go that is until I went to the bank..........
 

[Fatboy]

Sold the Ultra via HDTRADER to a guy from Springfield Illinois. Met him in Indy last Sunday to complete the deal which I feel was very fair for both of us. Basically got back the price of the bike new........lost all the chrome & motor $$$$$.....but kept a few trinkets to help ease the pain.

Oh well, here's to looking forward! [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[HUBBARD]

So what does that make you Hub?

[Fatboy]

 Anyone been watching the HD stock free fall the past 2 weeks? Maybe just maybe the tide is finally beginning to turn........ [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Death to all the HD Stealer's! [smiley=furious.gif]

May the customer friendly HD shops LIVE ON ! [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[hd2003-se2005]

Well I am sure glad "Tater" gets along so well with Shrader!

Life is wonderful

I'm just happy down here in paradise! (Charlotte)

Good dealer! (Charlotte H/D)

Good woman! (Nancy)

A few good bikes, (one is a CVO "Tater")

Rally in the CVO Valley this week [smiley=laugh.gif]

Meeting many new friends this week at the rally!

How can it get any better?

Just not sure if it could!


[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

Anyone been watching the HD stock free fall the past 2 weeks? Maybe just maybe the tide is finally beginning to turn........ [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

 Death to all the HD Stealer's! [smiley=furious.gif]

 May the customer friendly HD shops LIVE ON ! [smiley=beerchug.gif]

Amen Brother Amen! Fatboy there are some really good dealers out there it is a shame that a few can leave a bad taste in your mouth. In this area (metro D.C) most of your dealers have 150 plus bikes in stock! It's starting to go back to the way it was. Hell I remember buying a bike for 1500 to 2000 off of MSRP. Very soon it will be only the strong survive ! [smiley=6.gif]

[SHRADER]

Dam Hub.


You're a little touchy on this subject.  Ain't I always treated you like family?

REGARDS
SHRADER

[opee1]

Well I picked the bike up on Thursday from my local HD dealer after they had completed the build of my 103". Wow!!!!! I haven't even gotten into the throttle yet and already can tell that this isn't even the same motor. I have to get a few miles on her before I go to the dyno. When I do, I'll post the print outs. So far so good. Running really strong under 3K Rpm's and has a terrific sound.

Opee

[DCFIREMANN]

Thats great OPEE. Can't wait to see the numbers. Your making life hard for Fatboy!!!!!
Saty safe.

THE DAWG

[Fatboy]

And its getting worse.........our friend the owner of Jilly's is buying a yellow SEEG also. Now I'll have a twin! [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

Oh the $$$$ this is going to cost me [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=dunce2.gif] [smiley=furious.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

FATBOY it's only gonna cost you for a while!

THE DAWG

[Fatboy]

That's my latest quiry.....to do it all/all at once or a slow and steady build up to get it right. Maybe once I see your new Dyno numbers I'll have a better idea of which way to go...................

[HUBBARD]

Dam Hub.


You're a little touchy on this subject.

[hd2003-se2005]

Shrader

Don't believe that B/S from Tater.
Now I will have to wait till M/Beach to get his breakfast.
He brought me gas and wouldn't take any money.

Hell!
I think he's just getting old [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
He doesn't even remember me dusting Maude [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Otis was there, he saw it!
When TwoLane gets home he will post the picture!

Was good to meet you Shrader! We had a great time!

[smiley=blank.gif]

[HUBBARD]

Shrader

Don't believe that B/S from Tater.
Now I will have to wait till M/Beach to get his breakfast.
He brought me gas and wouldn't take any money.

Hell!
I think he's just getting old [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
He doesn't even remember me dusting Maude [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Otis was there, he saw it!
When TwoLane gets home he will post the picture!

Was good to meet you Shrader! We had a great time!

 [smiley=blank.gif]

Yeah, 'er 'uh, hd2003,
  [smiley=stop.gif] You must have bumped your head!  Yeah, I am gettin' older, but I ain't walkin' around in a blackout, either! [smiley=zzz.gif]  There was NOTHING down there that would dust Maudie!  Maudie would jerk the slack out of anything there! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Do you work at gettin' me wound up, or is it just Natural with you? [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  Ask DJW & reo if my Ol' "Led Sled Bagger"" will get up and go!!  You better get down there to Pat Rogers HD and pay up to put the Super-Tunes to your SEEG, and Nancy's 95, too, so you can keep up on the way to Charleston!  Myrtle Beach is just 11 days away!!  You're gonna' get a spankin'!  I hope it don't rain!  You KNOW I don't like to get Ol' Maudie all dirty and chit! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]  Later--HUBBARD    

[hd2003-se2005]

Tater

It's natural! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

And I love this chit! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[shovelhead71]

talked to our tech that does our dyno work and hp work - he is going to join the site  - learn something new everyday - and I have been giving this site HIGH praises for information that has been flowing here - hopefully he will pick up on some info and possibly be able to spread a little around in the process - only thing I can add Is I wish I had the opportunity to meet some of you screwballs - incrediable someone is as screwed up as I am - scarey

[DCFIREMANN]

talked to our tech that does our dyno work and hp work - he is going to join the site