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Author Topic: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE  (Read 26491 times)

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hd2003-se2005

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2005, 05:16:55 PM »

 [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I think KNG is starting to catch on to you "Tater"

[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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HUBBARD

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2005, 07:10:55 PM »

Quote

you are a mad man!!! [smiley=laugh.gif]


Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 I thought I are a "Tater!"  Now, I are a "Mad-Man Tater!"  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Later--HUBBARD  
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2005, 12:22:47 PM »

If you run an agressive cam that will rev in the 6 k range your stock lifters with your perfect fit pushrods will be out ran by a motor with stock lifters with travel limiters or aftermarket performance lifters and adjustable push rods. THAT IS A FACT. If both motors are set up exactally the same.

Why would you pay the same amount for perfect fit when you can have adjustables? My guess would be if you don't know how to properly adjust valve lash!
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HUBBARD

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2005, 04:59:26 PM »

Quote
If you run an agressive cam that will rev in the 6 k range your stock lifters with your perfect fit pushrods will be out ran by a motor with stock lifters with travel limiters or aftermarket performance lifters and adjustable push rods. THAT IS A FACT. If both motors are set up exactally the same.

 Why would you pay the same amount for perfect fit when you can have adjustables? My guess would be if you don't know how to properly adjust valve lash!


Yeah, 'er 'uh, DCFIREMAN,
 You took the words right out of my mouth! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]  Later--HUBBARD
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2005, 05:09:52 AM »

Can we get back on topic here?

What kind of compression(those who have changed anything) are you running?
Some people have talked about changing pistons and some have talked about cutting the deck surfaces on thier heads and some may have done both. Also are you running fuel injection or a carb?

After doing these changes what kind of cylinder pressures are you getting and how is your fuel injection reacting even with changes in the map? Increase in cylinder pressures will increase cylinder heat and will in turn make a lean condition in the cylinder. Even with changes in your map to richen up the cylinder you could be fighting a losing battle not to mention the strain on the lower end of the motor.

These are some of the problems you will face when we try to add to much compression. These are also just some of the things you need to think about when doing engine modifactions.  A good setup for a fuelie in our 103's will most likely be compression in the 10.0 to 1 range, a cam with a lot of lift and lower duration and a change of some type in your throttle body. The throttle body could be modified or you can purchase a larger aftermarket  unit. The throttle body on our SEEG's is Harleys 43 mm screamin eagle unit. Zippers performance makes a 50 and 54 mm unit. I did just purchase a 50mm unit and I am going to install it on Sunday with thier Thunderheart ECM already programed for the new unit.

After I get this done I will let you know how it runs. I will try to get some dyno time in the next week or so since I already have a good base line.

Right now the bike has an air cleaner kit, thunder header and a power commander. The bike dynoed at 98 hp and 108 ft lbs. Stay Safe.

THE DAWG
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2005, 06:35:52 AM »

Fireman

At this time are you also doing anything to the heads or changing cams?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 06:36:34 AM by hd2003-se2005 »
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2005, 08:31:52 AM »

HD not till I get back from Myrtle Beach.

I have a new set of Harley H/C pistons for the 103 stroker. I think I am going to use them as of right now. I have also decided on cams(gear driven). As far as the heads go I am going to install the cams and measure static pressure before I make a decision on decking.I am trying to stay right around 10.to1. The ports are the largest of all of the Harley heads but will need to cleaned up at the least. I think the valve size is ok. The valves will be changed as will the springs and collars and keepers. As I said eariler I am going to use Zippers 50 mm throttle body,intake and air cleaner. I promise to keep everyone posted on this engine build up. I am looking for H/P numbers around 110 and the torque numbers at least the same if not higher.

I have access to a dyno on the weekends so I will be able to see if this combo works  
The reason I am going in this direction is I bought a special edition bike. I am saving everything that is taken off during the build and added chrome. I want the bike to look as stock as it can(exhaust and 6 speed) so this is why I am staying with the 103 motor and the 103 heads. Stay Safe.

THE DAWG
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2005, 10:07:48 AM »

Fireman

Your expectation of the changes you are making seem realistic, maybe even a little low.

I'm like you, I want to keep the SEEG stock appearing (well ok pipes).

It's amazing to me how little there is on improving these fuel injected bikes.
My 95" Lowrider has a Mikuni and for carbed bikes the world is at your fingertips.

Keep us informed on your progress!
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B767capt

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2005, 10:35:18 AM »

This is a great thread.  I just got my 103 back a few weeks ago.  I went with the new SE 103 stroker + piston at .005 over.  It is supposed to be 10.5:1.  Put a .030 head gasket on it and should be 10.7-10.8.  Went with S&S roller rockers, Wood TW400G gear cams,(.652Lift).  HP inc 53 mm TB and compression releases.  The heads were sent to Underground.  Also Wood springs.  We dynoed after break in with the stock TB and then with the 53TB.  They were initially worried the much larger TB might loose velocity which would mean bottom TQ, but we were happy with the results.  The TQ was the same to 3500. After 3500 both curves jumped up.  I know your not going to believe it, but it has NO noise from the valves or gear drives.  It was dynoed with the new PClll laying over the race tuner which I had before the build.  The thing is smoother than when bone stock from Harley.  I know it's richer as the plugs are now brown, not bone white like before.  Also have Rineharts which were on from day one.  The dyno is 124.5 TQ and 115 HP.  The conditions were awful, with very high humidity (90%) and in the mid 80's.  Builder talked to Bob Wood and they think in ideal conditions it would be 118-119HP to 128-129 TQ.   The thing about pulls my arms out of their sockets.  Mileage is good at the 180 mile mark, I put in 4.5 gallons.  I used Bob Wood's close friend for the build and they had not done a CVO motor yet.  Bob was in on build as they did not want to butcher the heads being CVO trying to get to 10.5.   That's why I went with the new SE piston.  
The heads cc'd out at 94.  I used to have a little valve ticking noise in the head when it was stock and hot.  Not now, they boosted the oil pressure with a new stiffer spring.  I was very lucky as my crank run out was perfect.  One other item to add was my oil pump was about to give up.  Scarred very badly with 8600 miles on the meter.  I was lucky to have it torn down when I did.
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2005, 03:36:40 PM »

CAPT THOSE ARE GREAT NUMBERS FOR A FUELIE! I am still going to stay around 10. to 1 on my compression and I don't want a cam with that much duration. I will bet that thing sounds great though. One question I have is did they do anything with case bearing ? Or was yours a year before the change?

Good luck with it. I think you will still need to get a little more dyno time when the humidity comes down. If you can get humidity below 50% and an ambient temp of 70 to 75 watch out. Stay safe

THE DAWG
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DCFIREMANN

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2005, 03:40:52 PM »

I AM SO DUMB!!!!!! It must be from lack of sleep!

If you want to change your pistons the harley part number for .005 103 forged 10.5 to 1 is 22484-04 the 010 number is 22485-04

These pistons are 5 over and your cylinders will have to be fitted to the new pistons. But that is a good thing now you know you will have the right piston to wall clearence.
Stay safe

THE DAWG
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B767capt

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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2005, 03:47:55 PM »

No I didn't have the case split, but I debated that.  I'll keep my fingeres crossed.  If i ever have to have the case split, I'll do the bearings.
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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2005, 06:58:25 PM »

Quote

Yeah, 'er 'uh, kng103,
 
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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2005, 11:53:47 PM »

SHRADER  Yes the perfect fit pushrods come in different lengths. But I still say THEY AIN'T WORTH A CHIT!!!!!!!

A proverb from THE DAWG! They must have made them for people who don't know what valve lash is or how to adjust it!

THERE ENDITH: Lesson three

Stay Safe.

THE DAWG
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Re: 103" COMPRESSION INCREASE
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2005, 08:38:18 AM »

Quote
Can we get back on topic here?

What kind of compression(those who have changed anything) are you running?
Some people have talked about changing pistons and some have talked about cutting the deck surfaces on thier heads and some may have done both. Also are you running fuel injection or a carb?

After doing these changes what kind of cylinder pressures are you getting and how is your fuel injection reacting even with changes in the map? Increase in cylinder pressures will increase cylinder heat and will in turn make a lean condition in the cylinder. Even with changes in your map to richen up the cylinder you could be fighting a losing battle not to mention the strain on the lower end of the motor.

These are some of the problems you will face when we try to add to much compression. These are also just some of the things you need to think about when doing engine modifactions.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 08:41:56 AM by shrader »
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