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Author Topic: what do you put in you're rubber?  (Read 8186 times)

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kb

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what do you put in you're rubber?
« on: February 07, 2008, 02:53:01 PM »

I work at a dealership that does a lot of high performance Mustangs. One of the owners is the fastest funnycar in a1/4 mile. One of the things they encourage is to use Nitrogen to fill the tires. This supposedly keeps the tire cooler while adding traction and control.Has anyone tried this on a bike ?They tell me it will be a great benefit.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 02:58:30 PM »

Currently three threads concerning this....

nitroger in your tires ?

Nitrogen Filled Tires?

Anyone using Nitrogen in their tires?

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2008, 05:22:35 PM »

I work at a dealership that does a lot of high performance Mustangs. One of the owners is the fastest funnycar in a1/4 mile. One of the things they encourage is to use Nitrogen to fill the tires. This supposedly keeps the tire cooler while adding traction and control.Has anyone tried this on a bike ?They tell me it will be a great benefit.

My inexperienced opinion on this is for regular street use, Nitrogen in your tires will benefit the shop that puts it into your tires the most.

:indian_chief:
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2008, 06:46:15 PM »

Sorry, I thought this was a different topic :o
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2008, 06:48:12 PM »

Sorry, I thought this was a different topic :o
Shame, shame on you. ;) :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2008, 06:56:46 PM »

I put the same thing inside that's outside, only at a higher pressure! It doesn't handle very well if I leave the inside pressure, the same as the pressure outside the tire! ::) :o ;D ;)

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2008, 07:12:45 PM »

Nitrogen in your tires will benefit the shop that puts it into your tires the most.


Agreed. Costco does the nitrogen as a courtesy. But in reality, unless you pump down the tire to a negative pressure, you will never fill it with 100% nitrogen, just somewhere between 80% and 100%, probably a lot closer to 80-85%.

As a side note, us divers in cold water and dry suits have used argon (an inert gas) as a suit inflation gas. Theory is that the argon being a denser gas will help keep you warmer. This also does not work that great unless you evacuate the suit prior to inflating it with 100% argon.

This actually works, but for the most part is not worth the extra cost and effort.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2008, 07:40:54 PM »

Since nitrogen already makes up 78% of our regular atmosphere, completely purging all air from the tire and then filling with pure nitrogen will yield only a relatively small difference.  In street applications this small difference will only be noticeable if you measure pressure loss (at a constant temperature) over a period of months, with the pure nitrogen tire losing slightly less pressure from migration through the pores of the rubber.  Since you should be checking/adjusting tire pressure at least monthly anyway, I fail to see any advantage.  As for any handling difference on the street, that is a ludicrous claim at best.

If someone wants to give it to you free of charge, fine.  If you actually pay good money for it, then I suggest you have too much money burning a hole in your pocket and should send your excess funds to GRC care of this web site. ::)

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2008, 07:59:52 PM »

Since nitrogen already makes up 78% of our regular atmosphere, completely purging all air from the tire and then filling with pure nitrogen will yield only a relatively small difference.  In street applications this small difference will only be noticeable if you measure pressure loss (at a constant temperature) over a period of months, with the pure nitrogen tire losing slightly less pressure from migration through the pores of the rubber.  Since you should be checking/adjusting tire pressure at least monthly anyway, I fail to see any advantage.  As for any handling difference on the street, that is a ludicrous claim at best.

If someone wants to give it to you free of charge, fine.  If you actually pay good money for it, then I suggest you have too much money burning a hole in your pocket and should send your excess funds to GRC care of this web site. ::)

Jerry

The only possible advantage of using nitrogen is - because it is an inert gas, it is expands less with temperature.  So, if using compressed air to inflate your tires and the tire operating temperature increases - the air expands and your tires gain a few psi.  And if inflating your tires with compressed nitrogen and the tire operating temperature increases - the nitrogen expands slightly less and your tires gain slightly less pressure as compared to compressed air.  So - I agree - a better use of your money would be to make a contribution to the GRC Fund for Wayward Dollars as suggested above...

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 04:40:02 AM »

Straight air for this dude.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 05:18:57 AM »

Air. Either globally warmed or not.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2008, 11:58:59 AM »

The only possible advantage of using nitrogen is - because it is an inert gas, it is expands less with temperature.  So, if using compressed air to inflate your tires and the tire operating temperature increases - the air expands and your tires gain a few psi.  And if inflating your tires with compressed nitrogen and the tire operating temperature increases - the nitrogen expands slightly less and your tires gain slightly less pressure as compared to compressed air.  So - I agree - a better use of your money would be to make a contribution to the GRC Fund for Wayward Dollars as suggested above...

 :2vrolijk_21:


Favorite "nitrogen moment."   Maybe a year or so ago.  In getting some tires put on the truck.  Some guy is going ballistic at the tire shop counter guy.  Just random trajectory ballistic. 

Tire shop guy had just told nut-job guy that he'd put nitrogen in his new tires and explained it was an inert gas.  Near as I could guess nut-job buy was confusing the meaning of the words inert and stationary :bananarock: .
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2008, 02:38:03 PM »

I have nitrogen put in my tires for two reasons:
     1.  The tires run cooler
     2.  The nitrogen does not leak out, so the tires hold their pressure
It is inexpensive and practical
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2008, 11:26:55 PM »

Compressed Air.  It ain't broke.  Works good.  Lasts a long time.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 05:23:59 AM »

Compressed Air.  It ain't broke.  Works good.  Lasts a long time.

And the price is great
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 08:25:55 AM »

Since nitrogen already makes up 78% of our regular atmosphere, completely purging all air from the tire and then filling with pure nitrogen will yield only a relatively small difference.  In street applications this small difference will only be noticeable if you measure pressure loss (at a constant temperature) over a period of months, with the pure nitrogen tire losing slightly less pressure from migration through the pores of the rubber.  Since you should be checking/adjusting tire pressure at least monthly anyway, I fail to see any advantage.  As for any handling difference on the street, that is a ludicrous claim at best.

If someone wants to give it to you free of charge, fine.  If you actually pay good money for it, then I suggest you have too much money burning a hole in your pocket and should send your excess funds to GRC care of this web site. ::)

Jerry

The US Air Force uses nitrogen in all their aircraft systems  ( Acft tires and in the accumulators for the hydraulic systems and so on) for 2 reason's. 1st pure nitrogen does not burn. 2nd Nitrogen pressure will not change as much as Air with changes in the tempertures. I have used both when i was in the service, Its like night and day. Here is a pic of the aircraft that i worked on.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 08:31:29 AM by cowboy7123 »
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2008, 09:29:40 AM »

I'm with Jerry (GRC) on this one.  The tire doesn't know what kind of gas it's filled with.  There is nothing inert about Nitrogen.  It's less reactive than Oxygen but certainly not inert.  I believe the molecular weight is 14.  Oxygen is 16.  Both occur in our atmosphere as dimers.  Since O2 is slightly larger than N2 it's theoretical that O2 is less likely to fit through microscopic pores in the tires.  As for gas expansion and heat dissipation all gases react the same way (universal gas law PV=nRT).  it has more to do with the tire you use than the gas it's filled with.  Especially since ambient air is mostly nitrogen to begin with.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2008, 09:59:28 AM »

I'm with Jerry (GRC) on this one.  The tire doesn't know what kind of gas it's filled with.  There is nothing inert about Nitrogen.  It's less reactive than Oxygen but certainly not inert.  I believe the molecular weight is 14.  Oxygen is 16.  Both occur in our atmosphere as dimers.  Since O2 is slightly larger than N2 it's theoretical that O2 is less likely to fit through microscopic pores in the tires.  As for gas expansion and heat dissipation all gases react the same way (universal gas law PV=nRT).  it has more to do with the tire you use than the gas it's filled with.  Especially since ambient air is mostly nitrogen to begin with.

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2008, 11:04:57 AM »

I'm always wondering if it's myth or not to add nitrogen to tires.  One reason is I am asked by my customers to only use it when adjusting pressures in some cars and it is becoming more prevalent in the tire industry and we sell a fair number of tires.

Here's a good site to see the claimed benefits and the ins and outs of the nitrogen argument:  http://www.getnitrogen.org/

They Note:
"Nitrogen in tires is becoming a popular replacement for standard air. Nitrogen is all around us... the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and the rest is small amounts of other gasses. When it comes to tire inflation, nitrogen has many advantages over oxygen. With nitrogen tire inflation, improvements can be noted in a vehicle's handling, fuel efficiency and tire life through better tire pressure retention, improved fuel economy and cooler running tire temperatures. Here at the Get Nitrogen Institute our goal is to provide consumers, over-the-road truckers, fleet managers and others information about the benefits of using nitrogen in tires."

Bottom line for me is, it can't hurt anything and may in fact help significantly.  It is certainly more important to a 4 wheeled vehicle or large trucks with lots of tires than a motorcycle.  It is also more important to folks that don't check tire pressures often.

Most riders check the bikes tire pressures regularly and with proper inflation regardless of air or nitrogen the tire wear issue is voided.

One interesting point I found running around the internet however that not many have spoken to is the moisture in air vs nitrogen and the degenerative effects of moisture on rims.  I would think with the SEEG issues on wheels that the use on nitrogen to "possibly" help keep corrosion to a minimum could be worthwhile.

Other benefits:

"Improved TPMS Performance – If you have a new car, you likely are plagued by a flashing light telling you your tire pressure is low. For example, one woman's light was going off every four to five weeks. After inflating with nitrogen, her light didn't reappear for 53 weeks!

More Predictable Pressure Fluctuation – NASCAR teams use nitrogen so they can more accurately predict tire pressure fluctuation. Regular compressed air can fluctuate considerably when water vapor is present.

Longer Rim Life – Rim rust caused by condensation from water vapor and other gases can get caught in valves and create slow leaks in tires. Nitrogen is completely dry, so it eliminates the potential for condensation. "

At the end of the day we will most likely keep doing what we are doing, but those that switch to nitrogen may see some positive effects.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 11:07:26 AM by Rjob749 »
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2008, 11:08:47 AM »

The o2 is the culprit.. It oxidizes duh?!  Moisture also...I used to use it my race cars...I am too lazy top go find it for the bikes...
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2008, 10:14:27 PM »

They Note:
"Nitrogen in tires is becoming a popular replacement for standard air. Nitrogen is all around us... the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and the rest is small amounts of other gasses.

Most likely by this definition our tires are already 78% nitrogen.  Silly me I thought it was just air.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2008, 01:09:17 PM »

The US Air Force uses nitrogen in all their aircraft systems  ( Acft tires and in the accumulators for the hydraulic systems and so on) for 2 reason's. 1st pure nitrogen does not burn. 2nd Nitrogen pressure will not change as much as Air with changes in the tempertures. I have used both when i was in the service, Its like night and day. Here is a pic of the aircraft that i worked on.

Actually, there's one more reason:  Using nitogen in aviation applications inhibits the formation of corrosion.  That is of particular concern on the mating surfaces of wheel halves as well as in the aforementioned areas, pneudraulic landing gear struts and pressurized fuel systems.

Still.......I'll use filtered and dried air in my scooter tires.  Can't afford one of those nitrogen generators, and it is too much of PITA to find the stuff.....let alone the added cost.
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miker

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2008, 01:28:13 PM »

Actually, there's one more reason:  Using nitogen in aviation applications inhibits the formation of corrosion.  That is of particular concern on the mating surfaces of wheel halves as well as in the aforementioned areas, pneudraulic landing gear struts and pressurized fuel systems.

Still.......I'll use filtered and dried air in my scooter tires.  Can't afford one of those nitrogen generators, and it is too much of PITA to find the stuff.....let alone the added cost.

Yup...

In my salad days I was a C5 Galaxy crew chief...Lots n lots of n2 for those 28 tires...
Expansion on landing was the other reason besides no oxidation from 21% o2 and moisture retention.

If i could find it easy I would do it...A auto dealer down here will do it foe $20 a tire.
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2008, 01:49:01 PM »

My knob - well youasked for it.... :'(
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2008, 01:50:57 PM »

I'm with Jerry (GRC) on this one.  The tire doesn't know what kind of gas it's filled with.  There is nothing inert about Nitrogen.  It's less reactive than Oxygen but certainly not inert.  I believe the molecular weight is 14.  Oxygen is 16.  Both occur in our atmosphere as dimers.  Since O2 is slightly larger than N2 it's theoretical that O2 is less likely to fit through microscopic pores in the tires.  As for gas expansion and heat dissipation all gases react the same way (universal gas law PV=nRT).  it has more to do with the tire you use than the gas it's filled with.  Especially since ambient air is mostly nitrogen to begin with.
Smart A$$
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2008, 02:06:03 PM »

My knob - well youasked for it.... :'(

I'm SO glad you didn't admit to it being someone else's   :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2008, 02:29:05 PM »

My knob - well youasked for it.... :'(

You beat me to it by 4o minutes. :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2008, 03:48:10 PM »

My daughters boyfriends head.  boy was he pi$$ed!  So pi$$ed in fact that he didn't come back...  I guess it worked! 8)
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2008, 03:53:27 PM »

My knob - well youasked for it.... :'(

I just realized where you are from. Good one. I didn't realize you blokes had a sense of humour! :pepper: :pepper:
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2008, 06:36:35 AM »

I just realized where you are from. Good one. I didn't realize you blokes had a sense of humour! :pepper: :pepper:

WHATTTT!!! and that from a plastic Yank  ;D
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2008, 06:45:44 AM »

WHATTTT!!! and that from a plastic Yank  ;D

I'm not a Yank. I be a CANADIAN ;D ;D ;D
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2008, 06:54:39 AM »

I'm not a Yank. I be a CANADIAN ;D ;D ;D

I suppose you could be worse, you could be an australian :-X
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2008, 06:57:12 AM »

I suppose you could be worse, you could be an australian :-X

Or a Scotsman!!!
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2008, 09:53:28 AM »

Or a Scotsman!!!
Aaargh - I agree with you there, they make us yorkshireman look like as though we're on happy pills
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2008, 11:08:41 AM »

Aaargh - I agree with you there, they make us yorkshireman look like as though we're on happy pills

Yeah, & whats up the dresses the men wear? ;D
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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2008, 12:06:49 PM »

Yeah, & whats up the dresses the men wear? ;D

That's where they the Haggis ;D
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kb

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2008, 04:25:27 PM »

I have added over 18,000 miles since putting nitrogen in my truck. My fuel mileage increased from 18.6 mpg to 19.5 mpg. so if my math is correct I have saved 44 gal.of gas. IMO nitrogen works.  KB
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kb

igofar

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2008, 08:32:41 PM »

Here is my thought.....
Have you ever checked your tire pressure when they are HOT... better than 50psi..
So I assume the manufacturers set the recommended cold psi to reflect the operating temperature psi...
Where do you set the cold tire pressure when using nitrogen to make the hot psi 50+?

Cold temps make for extreme pressure changes...today, (first real cold day) my truck's tire pressure monitors went off. It is -24*C (-11*F)
Yup, all the tires were at least 7psi lower than the last time they were set.....

Brad
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REGGAB

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Re: what do you put in you're rubber?
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2008, 10:14:53 PM »

Air.  It works............and I have a compressor.
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