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[Dan_Lockwood]

I still see lots of interest in stabilizers, Tru-Trac, T.W.R. etc.

Since MOCO moved the front stabilizer link from down to up, has this helped in the infamous rearend wobble?

I guess I ride so conservatively that I may never feel the wobble...  Usually I'm riding with the wife on the rear and we're really more site seeing cruiser style riders.

Can anyone with any touring '08 that's familiar with the problem, speak for any change in the wobble since this factory stabilizer change on the '08s?

I'm interested if I need to invest in one or not.  I saw a picture of a bike for sale that had the one that has the rubber "Y" mounting fork that hangs down below the oil pan.  I really didn't like the looks of it hanging down like that.  On the T.W.R. unit it replaces the right rear passenger footpeg and swingarm mount.  This unit is very stealthy looking, but with an '08 SERK Annie the bracket would have to be painted to match the rootbeer frame color.  So there's another expense to add to the parts list. 

Also I haven't heard through any of the threads that any painter has yet painted anything with the '08 Anniversary paint colors.  Anyone know if someone, maybe Gene, has done this yet?

Hope to hear positive reports about the '08 changes.

Thanks to all in advance.

 

[megavolt17]

I only have 480 miles on my Duracell because I picked it up this winter, but no real wobble noted so far.  I tend to drive conservatively at times, but like to push it a bit sometimes on the highway or on the back road twisties.  I've scraped the footboards on numerous occasions, and have even slid the rear wheel on a corner on rare occasion (not on purpose) with my old Road Glide,  but I haven't managed to do any of that yet with my new Duracell.

I do note pronounced buffeting from trucks if I pass at over 70mph, but that might just be a matter of getting used to the Ultra with the handlebar mounted fairing as opposed to my prior Road Glide with the frame mounted fairing.  I never even thought about cross wind, truck buffeting, etc. with my Road Glide and once drove it from Maine to Massachusetts during gale force winds.  I felt the wind on my helmet, and occasionally it tried to blow me off the seat, but the bike was not affected by the wind in the slightest.  That is not the case with my new Ultra, but I expect I will get used to the handling after a while (or learn drive slower).

[SPIDERMAN]

I only have 480 miles on my Duracell because I picked it up this winter, but no real wobble noted so far.  I tend to drive conservatively at times, but like to push it a bit sometimes on the highway or on the back road twisties.  I've scraped the footboards on numerous occasions, and have even slid the rear wheel on a corner on rare occasion (not on purpose) with my old Road Glide,  but I haven't managed to do any of that yet with my new Duracell.

I do note pronounced buffeting from trucks if I pass at over 70mph, but that might just be a matter of getting used to the Ultra with the handlebar mounted fairing as opposed to my prior Road Glide with the frame mounted fairing.  I never even thought about cross wind, truck buffeting, etc. with my Road Glide and once drove it from Maine to Massachusetts during gale force winds.  I felt the wind on my helmet, and occasionally it tried to blow me off the seat, but the bike was not affected by the wind in the slightest.  That is not the case with my new Ultra, but I expect I will get used to the handling after a while (or learn drive slower).

mega
       One of the reasons I'm a huge Road Glide fan is what you're describing above. The batwing fairing puts you in God's hands in any type of wind situation. Some people learn to deal with it. I s'pose I had before I bought my 01 SERG. Once I experienced the drift effect of the RG as opposed to the hand of God feeling, I was sold on the RG. I've gotten so used to the drift that I have solid wheels on my current RG and even in high winds it doesn't bother me. My advice in riding in situations like you're describing is to give yourself plenty of room and ride loose. If the wind is blowing left to right for instance, ride single file close to the left side of the lane. If the wind blows don't fight it; let the bike drift to the right. Fighting the wind is useless and makes you so tense you fatigued quickly which leads to more issues. Ride alert but loose and go with what mother nature gives you and you'll find yourself enjoying riding a lot more and also not having a panic attack when one of those "Strong Winds Next 12 Miles "  signs appears on the side of the highway.

B B

[murphy]

Spiderman has a good point.

I own an 06 and noticed a bad wobble when I first got the bike. I ride a couple of Electra Glides as work and had never experienced the wobble with them... but I don't ride them at highway speeds very often.

The batwing sure has a lot to do with it, but now that I've ridden the Ultra for most of the season, I know when to expect it so it's not so scary!

[vagabond6542]

mega
       One of the reasons I'm a huge Road Glide fan is what you're describing above. The batwing fairing puts you in God's hands in any type of wind situation. Some people learn to deal with it. I s'pose I had before I bought my 01 SERG. Once I experienced the drift effect of the RG as opposed to the hand of God feeling, I was sold on the RG. I've gotten so used to the drift that I have solid wheels on my current RG and even in high winds it doesn't bother me. My advice in riding in situations like you're describing is to give yourself plenty of room and ride loose. If the wind is blowing left to right for instance, ride single file close to the left side of the lane. If the wind blows don't fight it; let the bike drift to the right. Fighting the wind is useless and makes you so tense you fatigued quickly which leads to more issues. Ride alert but loose and go with what mother nature gives you and you'll find yourself enjoying riding a lot more and also not having a panic attack when one of those "Strong Winds Next 12 Miles "  signs appears on the side of the highway.
B B

So true....oh so true.
I do a lot of highway speeds (65>?) Crosswinds are something you learn to deal on a moments notice. The SEUC2 handles well with the winds.

[Hoist!]

I love riding the wind, and drifting where the wind takes ya. Keep loose and go with it. Leave yourself room to drift and let it fly! I love tractor trailers pulling me in their draft too!

Hoist!

[SPIDERMAN]

I love riding the wind, and drifting where the wind takes ya. Keep loose and go with it. Leave yourself room to drift and let it fly! I love tractor trailers pulling me in their draft too!
Hoist!

Howie,
         Somebody who rides all tensed up probably has never experienced this. If you ride loose like I said, it's almost like a carnival ride when you get inside the draft, feel the bike take off and notice your revs drop a couple hundred RPM's

B B

[Hoist!]

Howie,
         Somebody who rides all tensed up probably has never experienced this. If you ride loose like I said, it's almost like a carnival ride when you get inside the draft, feel the bike take off and notice your revs drop a couple hundred RPM's

B B

Hehe! Yep, that's the only time I get decent gas mileage too!

Hoist!

[SPIDERMAN]

Hehe! Yep, that's the only time I get decent gas mileage too!

Hoist!

Howie,
         That's gotta be one fast trucker for you to be drafting him 

B B

[Hoist!]

Howie,
         That's gotta be one fast trucker for you to be drafting him 

B B

On the open road, you can get behind one and have him pull you at 80+. Good when you're winding down, low on gas, or taking it easy. But if you're in the wanna make time mode, it don't work so well.

Hoist!

[110tHunDer]

On the open road, you can get behind one and have him pull you at 80+. Good when you're winding down, low on gas, or taking it easy. But if you're in the wanna make time mode, it don't work so well.

Hoist!

I think we drafted some semis coming back from Hot Springs, but only because they were in the slow lane and blocking us.

[Chief]

Howie,
         Somebody who rides all tensed up probably has never experienced this. If you ride loose like I said, it's almost like a carnival ride when you get inside the draft, feel the bike take off and notice your revs drop a couple hundred RPM's

B B

Sorry B, but I'm gonna call BS on this one. No way a manual gearbox can drop revs due to a draft. Nope, not gonna happen. Maybe an auto tranny without lock-up converter, but not a manual tranny. Revs down means go slower. But then again, you already knew this and just mistyped yourself.

Gotcha

[Gone Fishin']

I still see lots of interest in stabilizers, Tru-Trac, T.W.R. etc.

Since MOCO moved the front stabilizer link from down to up, has this helped in the infamous rearend wobble?

I guess I ride so conservatively that I may never feel the wobble...  Usually I'm riding with the wife on the rear and we're really more site seeing cruiser style riders.

Can anyone with any touring '08 that's familiar with the problem, speak for any change in the wobble since this factory stabilizer change on the '08s?

Here are my 5 cents: Living in Germany, we can legally ride faster because there is no speed limit on parts of the motorway. I had terrible wobble on my 2005 SEEG at speeds of 160km/h (100 mph) when it was windy, which was only partly resolved by adding a tru-trac and using heavy fork oil. I have now changed that bike for a 2008 SEUC and was very disappointed to have to notice the wobble at speeds starting from 140 km/h (88 mph), again when it was windy. I have added a tru-trac to this bike now as well, and the front fork baffle. The baffle worked wonders for my 2007 SERK which allows for steady speed at 180km/h (112 mph) without any issue. Obviously the SERK has no front fairing, which is part of the problem. Since the modification I could not ride the SEUC, because of bad weather with rain and snow. I hope the tru-trac will help better on this bike. I am a long distance rider and not so much the scenic tour person, and I like to use the bike how it was meant to be, riding it hard and fast. The wobble is my personal enemy. I shall be adding some comments, once I get to ride the SEUC, but it does not look good for the coming week altogether.

Ride safely,
Louis

[SBB]

Here are my 5 cents: Living in Germany, we can legally ride faster because there is no speed limit on parts of the motorway. I had terrible wobble on my 2005 SEEG at speeds of 160km/h (100 mph) when it was windy, which was only partly resolved by adding a tru-trac and using heavy fork oil. I have now changed that bike for a 2008 SEUC and was very disappointed to have to notice the wobble at speeds starting from 140 km/h (88 mph), again when it was windy. I have added a tru-trac to this bike now as well, and the front fork baffle. The baffle worked wonders for my 2007 SERK which allows for steady speed at 180km/h (112 mph) without any issue. Obviously the SERK has no front fairing, which is part of the problem. Since the modification I could not ride the SEUC, because of bad weather with rain and snow. I hope the tru-trac will help better on this bike. I am a long distance rider and not so much the scenic tour person, and I like to use the bike how it was meant to be, riding it hard and fast. The wobble is my personal enemy. I shall be adding some comments, once I get to ride the SEUC, but it does not look good for the coming week altogether.

Ride safely,
Louis

Louis

Let us know how it works. You sound like our kind of rider.

I am a long distance rider and not so much the scenic tour person, and I like to use the bike how it was meant to be, riding it hard and fast.

Good luck!

SBB

[Hoist!]

Sorry B, but I'm gonna call BS on this one. No way a manual gearbox can drop revs due to a draft. Nope, not gonna happen. Maybe an auto tranny without lock-up converter, but not a manual tranny. Revs down means go slower. But then again, you already knew this and just mistyped yourself.

Gotcha

Mine drops lotsa revs when I'm drafting them. I get on the bumper, pull my clutch in, and let them tow me. When I start breaking the draft, I let the clutch out, catch the draft again, and pull the clutch in again. Better be paying real good attention when doing this. TT air brakes stop real well!

Hoist!

[Chief]

Mine drops lotsa revs when I'm drafting them. I get on the bumper, pull my clutch in, and let them tow me. When I start breaking the draft, I let the clutch out, catch the draft again, and pull the clutch in again. Better be paying real good attention when doing this. TT air brakes stop real well!

Hoist!

Breaking the draft is not the concern here, braking the rig and then breaking your head is the problem.

[Capo]

Just picked up my Screamin Nemo following MOCO lowering kit and Tru Track install and the ride home was in mild wind and I was very disappointed in the handling. Comng off my SERK to the SEUC the fairing appears to be the big difference-I had solid wheels on the SERK and a large wind screen and wind was only an issue in  Eastern WA where the crosswinds are notoriously VICIOUS as in lane changing so you absolutley drift-no one spynchter can stay puckered that long!

[Chief]

Just picked up my Screamin Nemo following MOCO lowering kit and Tru Track install and the ride home was in mild wind and I was very disappointed in the handling. Comng off my SERK to the SEUC the fairing appears to be the big difference-I had solid wheels on the SERK and a large wind screen and wind was only an issue in  Eastern WA where the crosswinds are notoriously VICIOUS as in lane changing so you absolutley drift-no one spynchter can stay puckered that long!

They all do it. Seriously, they do. You have a lot of aerodynamic forces going on up front and now there's a big 'ol piece of plastic up there transmitting those forces to the bars.

Hopefully you'll get used to it. Try to loosen up your grip on things and let it flow. It makes a whole lot of difference if you're trying to keep it from doing what it naturally want it to do.

Good luck and I hope you can work it out.

[Capo]

I will not have a problem and I appreciate the advice the real issue is with mama- she becomes a giant WHITE Knuckle!

[grc]

There are two separate issues that are often called "wobble".  First there is the understandable front end shake caused by the handlebar mounted batwing fairing.  Any windshield or fairing mounted directly to the bars is going to affect handling, it's something you eventually get used to.  As noted earlier in this thread, recognize it for what it is, relax, and give the bike it's head.  The worst thing you can do is put the death grip on the bars and fight it.

The second issue is what I consider to be the real "wobble", and that is the failure of the rear wheel to track perfectly true with the front due to side loads distorting the rubber mounts.  Swing arm and frame flex are involved also, but the biggie is still the rubber mount system.  If you ride behind someone with a severe case of the wobbles, you can actually see the rear tire walking around.  Definitely spooky.  This is the phenomenon that the Sta-Bo bushings and the various stabilizers like True Track and Ride Str8 are supposed to help.  It is also the one that Dan's original question is concerned with, ie. does the relocation of the upper engine stabilizer link from between the two heads under the fuel tank to the front head and frame downtube make any difference in this type of wobble?  I personally doubt it, but a point was made in a previous discussion of this topic that the frame would likely be stiffer where the link is attached now, versus the old backbone location.  So possibly you would have less drivetrain movement due to frame flex.  Of course, you still have the same rubber bushing design at the trans mount/swingarm pivot, so IMHO you will still get side movement under side loads. 

Jerry

[Gone Fishin']

They all do it. Seriously, they do. You have a lot of aerodynamic forces going on up front and now there's a big 'ol piece of plastic up there transmitting those forces to the bars.

Hopefully you'll get used to it. Try to loosen up your grip on things and let it flow. It makes a whole lot of difference if you're trying to keep it from doing what it naturally want it to do.

Hi Chief,
There is a difference in behaviour. The reaction of the fairing to wind and wind direction changes is as you describe, and actually "letting go" a little bit on the grips will greatly diminish the uncomfortable feeling and stabilize the ride. However, the high speed wobble is something much more serious, as the movements of the front can not be stabilized by "letting go", but rather by slooooowly decreasing speed and the rider scootching forward towards on to the tank (an old trick first invented by the highway police riders). "Letting go" at the high speed wobble will most definitively help the bike completely loose direction and many times would bring the bike down.
While the fairing issue is what it is, the wobble must be fought by improvements on the bike, such as the tru-trac (whatever it helps) and other measures. It can't be that a bike capable of doing 120 mph gets unsafe at 90 mph!
(And by the way: Lowering the bike will most definitively increase the wobble. This is what made specifically the 2005 SEEG so hard to handle at higher speeds. These bikes were already lowered when the came.)
I'll report back, once I do have a chance to test ride my 2008 SEUC with the tru-trac and baffle.
Ride safely,
Louis

[Capo]

The Tru Track has definately helped the "wobble" and maybe that's why I am noting the front end so much more. I thought the MOCO changed the bushings last year in the swing arm? The Tru Track gang told me when I ordered that had been done. The lowering I did was to reduce seat height for my 29" inseam, hope I didn't waste the $$ and create a crappy handling issue.

[mhjimh]

I had posted earlier about a friend how wrecked do to th violent wobble in his bike. I was right behind him and my bike was doing the same thing I was able to control mine. Since then I installed the TWR and was able to ride the same curve the other day at high speed and felt no wobble at all, I'm sold. We both have been riding for 35 + years I've owned every touring model and have felt it in every one of them to some degree. So every one needs to now that it can happen to all touring models.

[vagabond6542]

Hi Chief,
There is a difference in behaviour. The reaction of the fairing to wind and wind direction changes is as you describe, and actually "letting go" a little bit on the grips will greatly diminish the uncomfortable feeling and stabilize the ride. However, the high speed wobble is something much more serious, as the movements of the front can not be stabilized by "letting go", but rather by slooooowly decreasing speed and the rider scootching forward towards on to the tank (an old trick first invented by the highway police riders). "Letting go" at the high speed wobble will most definitively help the bike completely loose direction and many times would bring the bike down.
While the fairing issue is what it is, the wobble must be fought by improvements on the bike, such as the tru-trac (whatever it helps) and other measures. It can't be that a bike capable of doing 120 mph gets unsafe at 90 mph!
(And by the way: Lowering the bike will most definitively increase the wobble. This is what made specifically the 2005 SEEG so hard to handle at higher speeds. These bikes were already lowered when the came.)
I'll report back, once I do have a chance to test ride my 2008 SEUC with the tru-trac and baffle.
Ride safely,
Louis

Louis

I wish I could agree with you on the lowered bike. I am inseam challenged and had to lower the SEUC2 to get some of my feet to the ground. On the handling side, the bike behaved as well as the "Road Sofa", aka, "RV on two wheels"  that I still have.
But there is another method without expense to help the front wobble, both bikes displayed front wobble at high speeds, i.e., above 110 mph. 1)Check tire pressure. 2)On both tires, go to max cold psi or metric equivalent. 3) Lower both tires 2 to 3 psi or metric equivalent. Keep the front less by 1 psi What is happening is that you are changing the aero dynamics of the tires at high speeds. The heavier the bike the less the pressure has to be removed. The foot print of the front tire is also being increased to decrease the wobble.

Vag

[Gone Fishin']

I wish I could agree with you on the lowered bike. I am inseam challenged and had to lower the SEUC2 to get some of my feet to the ground. On the handling side, the bike behaved as well as the "Road Sofa", aka, "RV on two wheels"  that I still have.
But there is another method without expense to help the front wobble, both bikes displayed front wobble at high speeds, i.e., above 110 mph. 1)Check tire pressure. 2)On both tires, go to max cold psi or metric equivalent. 3) Lower both tires 2 to 3 psi or metric equivalent. Keep the front less by 1 psi What is happening is that you are changing the aero dynamics of the tires at high speeds. The heavier the bike the less the pressure has to be removed. The foot print of the front tire is also being increased to decrease the wobble.

Vag

Vag,

I could not agree more on the tire pressure. If you go to high, it will definitely increase the chances of the wobble. The cost of going with a lowered pressure, however, is increased tire wear. A small price to pay for the increase in safety.
My experience with the lowered bike is based on my 2005 SEEG compared to a friend with the same bike, but notched up the regular height of the stock E-Glides. And with wind from the side, of course.

Ride safely,
Louis

[megavolt17]

I would have thought that lowering a bike, if done properly, would improve the handling.  It works for sports cars compared to SUVs for example.  I am thinking of lowering my bike so I don't have to stand on the balls of my feet depending on if there is a crown on the road or not, but I don't want to increase the chance of a high speed crash due to a wobble as a result.  0MPH crash beats 75MPH crash any day!

[Chief]

Hi Chief,
There is a difference in behaviour. The reaction of the fairing to wind and wind direction changes is as you describe, and actually "letting go" a little bit on the grips will greatly diminish the uncomfortable feeling and stabilize the ride. However, the high speed wobble is something much more serious, as the movements of the front can not be stabilized by "letting go", but rather by slooooowly decreasing speed and the rider scootching forward towards on to the tank (an old trick first invented by the highway police riders). "Letting go" at the high speed wobble will most definitively help the bike completely loose direction and many times would bring the bike down.
While the fairing issue is what it is, the wobble must be fought by improvements on the bike, such as the tru-trac (whatever it helps) and other measures. It can't be that a bike capable of doing 120 mph gets unsafe at 90 mph!
(And by the way: Lowering the bike will most definitively increase the wobble. This is what made specifically the 2005 SEEG so hard to handle at higher speeds. These bikes were already lowered when the came.)
I'll report back, once I do have a chance to test ride my 2008 SEUC with the tru-trac and baffle.
Ride safely,
Louis

Louis,

My response was to Capo who was complaining about the handling of his SEUC in comparison to his RK. He was talking about the effect the wind was having on the fairing and he was uncomfortable with it. Capo never mentioned anything about a high-speed wobble, which as we know is a whole different animal.

[Chief]

The Tru Track has definately helped the "wobble" and maybe that's why I am noting the front end so much more. I thought the MOCO changed the bushings last year in the swing arm? The Tru Track gang told me when I ordered that had been done. The lowering I did was to reduce seat height for my 29" inseam, hope I didn't waste the $$ and create a crappy handling issue.

Capo,

No recent change to the swingarm. I believe it was 2002 they changed things up.

I think you'll get used to the fairing movement with some miles. Don't fight it and you'll be OK. There's also a possibility that your neck bearings are too loose and that will amplify the movement. If you've got a shop manual, look at the section on steering head bearings. The procedure for doing the "swing test" is there.

Good luck.

[spydglide]

why don't these bikes come w/ a steering stabilizer on the front forks?  don't they work at all?    spyder

[Gone Fishin']

Louis,

My response was to Capo who was complaining about the handling of his SEUC in comparison to his RK. He was talking about the effect the wind was having on the fairing and he was uncomfortable with it. Capo never mentioned anything about a high-speed wobble, which as we know is a whole different animal.

Yes, I know. I am just so concerned with the wobble thing and was trying to better differentiate the two, just as you do.

Ride Safely,
Louis

[Chief]

Yes, I know. I am just so concerned with the wobble thing and was trying to better differentiate the two, just as you do.

Ride Safely,
Louis

It's not that bad to be so concerned about. Harley's have used a rear rubber isolation system for a really long time. I'm not saying a stabilizer will not make the bike ride better, but please realize people have put millions of miles on these dressers for years without them. They do help tighten up the rear end, but the bikes are not "death traps" without them. I know the stabilizer companies would like you to think you must have one, but it just isn't the case.

There's more hoopla about the stabilizers that is really necessary.

[spydglide]

It's not that bad to be so concerned about. Harley's have used a rear rubber isolation system for a really long time. I'm not saying a stabilizer will not make the bike ride better, but please realize people have put millions of miles on these dressers for years without them. They do help tighten up the rear end, but the bikes are not "death traps" without them. I know the stabilizer companies would like you to think you must have one, but it just isn't the case.

There's more hoopla about the stabilizers that is really necessary.

Hey Chief, we've got to have something to obsess over........maybe we tend to ride harder/faster now with these higher HP motors.  har!  spyder

[Hoist!]

These bikes/frames were never designed for the HP and speeds we can do with them today. I'm sure that's a big factor here. HD racing bikes are either solid mounted or have the extra stabilizer link, and steering dampers too. That tells me what works!

Put that extra stabilizer on and stiffen everything up. Get a real suspension from Traxxion. If you want high performance out of these things, you can't stop at the motor!!!

Hoist!

[TWR]

hi until you feel this wobble first hand and it scares  the chit out of you like it did to me going straight on a good smooth highway at 100 mph, i backed out of it and it was gone at 80 mph, then i decided to fix the problem some bikes do it under certain speed and road conditions, high hp and torque bikes contribute to the problem too,  just ask the guys that have laid their bikes down because of it , i guess there is always skeptics out there thanks tracy

[REGGAB]

It's not that bad to be so concerned about. Harley's have used a rear rubber isolation system for a really long time. I'm not saying a stabilizer will not make the bike ride better, but please realize people have put millions of miles on these dressers for years without them. They do help tighten up the rear end, but the bikes are not "death traps" without them. I know the stabilizer companies would like you to think you must have one, but it just isn't the case.

There's more hoopla about the stabilizers that is really necessary.

Same can be said for stock forks and shocks.  I think what it all boils down to is this:  There's better stuff out there than that with which our motorcycles are fielded stock.  If my research tells me a product will improve my motorcycle, and I can make the modification in a prudent manner, then I will.  Heck, I rode mine for better than 20K miles without any suspension mods...........and likely would still be riding that way had I not read the material presented here, which prompted further research.  It rode just fine, albeit I know it's limitations in stock form, have exceeded them.......once........and chose not to do so again.      Since the addition of my suspension mods, the limitation envelope just got bigger.      Bigger is better.      And I'm lovin' it.      Bottom line:  Try it!  You'll LOVE it!   

[megavolt17]

Hey Chief, we've got to have something to obsess over........

Especially when it's too cold to obsess about engine heat issues!

[Chief]

hi until you feel this wobble first hand and it scares  the chit out of you like it did to me going straight on a good smooth highway at 100 mph, i backed out of it and is was gone at 80 mph, then i decided to fix the problem some bikes do it under certain speed and road conditions, high hp and torque bikes contribute to the problem too,  just ask the guys that have laid their bikes down because of it , i guess there is always skeptics out there thanks tracy

It's comments like these that caused me to make my post. People are reading this and getting scared into buying a product that they may not need. That's all.

[Chief]

Same can be said for stock forks and shocks.  I think what it all boils down to is this:  There's better stuff out there than that with which our motorcycles are fielded stock.  If my research tells me a product will improve my motorcycle, and I can make the modification in a prudent manner, then I will.  Heck, I rode mine for better than 20K miles without any suspension mods...........and likely would still be riding that way had I not read the material presented here, which prompted further research.  It rode just fine, albeit I know it's limitations in stock form, have exceeded them.......once........and chose not to do so again.      Since the addition of my suspension mods, the limitation envelope just got bigger.      Bigger is better.      And I'm lovin' it.      Bottom line:  Try it!  You'll LOVE it!   

You know we're running almost the same gear and I have thoroughly enjoyed the improvements to the bike since the suspension upgrades. I ride pretty aggressivley and for me, the upgrades help. My point is that not everyone needs all the upgrades. Not everyone is trying to ride these bikes at 100+ and drag boards through the twisties and make their bike perform like sport bikes.

When I saw Lois' post "I am just so concerned with the wobble thing" it is obvious that people are getting too worked up about this topic. I'm just trying to say, step back and realize that it ain't that bad without one.

That's all.

[spydglide]

Especially when it's too cold to obsess about engine heat issues!

EXACTLY!  har!  spyder

[vagabond6542]

You know we're running almost the same gear and I have thoroughly enjoyed the improvements to the bike since the suspension upgrades. I ride pretty aggressivley and for me, the upgrades help. My point is that not everyone needs all the upgrades. Not everyone is trying to ride these bikes at 100+ and drag boards through the twisties and make their bike perform like sport bikes.

When I saw Lois' post "I am just so concerned with the wobble thing" it is obvious that people are getting too worked up about this topic. I'm just trying to say, step back and realize that it ain't that bad without one.

That's all.

You have my vote. Does that mean you get elected?
Seriously, you are correct about stock. These baggers were design with cruising in mind. To go beyond that, it's like any performance mod,  you have to do it to keep riding safe, SAFE.

[Dan_Lockwood]

You know we're running almost the same gear and I have thoroughly enjoyed the improvements to the bike since the suspension upgrades. I ride pretty aggressively and for me, the upgrades help. My point is that not everyone needs all the upgrades. Not everyone is trying to ride these bikes at 100+ and drag boards through the twisties and make their bike perform like sport bikes.

When I saw Lois' post "I am just so concerned with the wobble thing" it is obvious that people are getting too worked up about this topic. I'm just trying to say, step back and realize that it ain't that bad without one.

That's all.

This is what I'm trying to get at. 

I have a friend, and yes I at least have one friend and he lives in Michigan.  He's not been a rider for MANY years and about three years ago to get back into riding he bought a '76 FLH like mine.  He's retired and that first winter with his FLH with him in Florida he decided to get a new Road King.  This was a 2005 model.  In the first year he had about 20k miles on it.  He's been riding it hard ever since.  I called him and asked if he had installed one of the stabilizer kits on the market.  He asked what I was talking about.  I explained that the RK he has does weird things when cornering at high speeds and other various situations.  He still didn't know what I was talking about.  So in just under 40k miles on his '05 RK he's not ever felt anything like what I was describing to him.

I'm not saying that improvements are a good thing, they are.  As of right now I feel that my '08 SERK runs great and handles even better.  I know that suspension upgrades will make it even better, but I'm very happy right now with what I have.

As I said earlier, I doubt that I'll ever hit 100 mph on this but enjoy the pep of it at the lower speeds.  (Okay, I lied on that statement, I've already hit the 100 mark purely unintentionally though)  Our group rides lots of twisty roads and are generally in the 45 to 55 mph range on the corners.

We do plan on doing some cross country riding, St. Louis to Des Moines where my son lives, and maybe a trip to Lake of the Ozarks or Branson a couple times.  We'll be going to Sturgis again this year and we do enjoy the scenic country out there very much, but again at speeds a lot less than 90 to 110 mph big sweeping curves.

I think for right now I'm going to wait it out and see what my bike has in store for me after I'm able to give it more riding.  A rear lower stabilizer may installed down the road from now, but like I said I'm very happy right now.

Thanks to all for the great reading and input.  It's very valuable to us rookies just getting into the new HD bikes.

 

[Gone Fishin']

 

Hi guys,
Please let's not confuse the handling of the Road King with the handling of the Electra Glide (with fairing and lowers). There is a substantial difference. As I stated I am very happy with the handling of my 2007 SERK, without any stabilizer (just the baffle), but I do have issues with the handling of my 2008 SEUC. Now I do realize that most people would not ride in adverse weather conditions, or faster than 80 - 90 mph. But I still content that a bike capable of going faster than 100 mph should be safe doing so.

Ride safely,
Louis

[grc]

Hi guys,
Please let's not confuse the handling of the Road King with the handling of the Electra Glide (with fairing and lowers). There is a substantial difference. As I stated I am very happy with the handling of my 2007 SERK, without any stabilizer (just the baffle), but I do have issues with the handling of my 2008 SEUC. Now I do realize that most people would not ride in adverse weather conditions, or faster than 80 - 90 mph. But I still contend that a bike capable of going faster than 100 mph should be safe doing so.

Ride safely,
Louis

BINGO!  These bikes, totally stock and without any performance modifications, are capable of speeds well in excess of those required to experience the wobble.  The MoCo has been aware of the issue for nearly as long as the frame design has been around (1979-80), and even though they have made many changes to the rear mounts and to the swing arm, they haven't totally eliminated the problem.  I truly believe that if this were a 4 wheeled vehicle, especially one built by an American company, there would have been lawsuits and recalls years ago.  

Is every FLH a death trap?  No, I don't believe we can say that.  Are too many susceptible to a wobble that can escalate into a crash (due to marginal design, manufacturing variations, bad luck, rider inexperience, whatever)?  In my opinion, even if the number were just a handful it would be too many.  Motorcycles have none of the other safety features or equipment that the 4 wheeled counterparts have, so the basic design needs to be very forgiving.  It's one thing to put a twitchy design on the racetrack, where a professional rider is aware of the issue and more capable of dealing with it.  It's a totally different thing to continue to put a twitchy design on public roads where it will be ridden by people of varying levels of competency, from expert all the way to clueless.

Jerry

[TWR]

hi i said, some bikes do it under certain speed and road conditions, high hp and torque bikes contribute to the problem too, its very simple if you have ever felt this wobble and want to repair it, then buy a stabilizer if not don't buy one some bikes don't do it and some do, hp ,speed , road conditions all contribute to make it happen , i didn't try to scare anyone in to buying one its up to them thanks tracy

[dmnrdn]

All I know is what my butt tells my brain (yes some have said they are one in the same on me).  I had a 06 Dyna SG and then went to a Ultra.  Yes they handle different but the Ultra waddled through the same curves that before felt fine on the Dyna.  I put a TWR on and the waddling in the same curves are now gone.

Some of my friends on their Ultra's & SE Ultra's complain about the same thing.  Some of them do not.  My theory is that it all depends on the bike and is multiplied by riding styles.

The one thing I know is that the TWR has made a huge difference in the handling of my ride.

[aushog]

I'm still a newbie, riding a 2008 seuc, wondering if the wobble is what I have felt when powering out of a corner.  Twice now, turning onto a 4 lane highway and rolling on some throttle, it felt like the back tire slipped or maybe even went flat.  The first time it happened, i even pulled over to check the air in the tires, which was OK.  I decided maybe it was a slick spot, until it happened again on very dry clean pavement. 

My previous bike was a heritage, and I never felt anything like it, even when riding much harder.

[Dan_Lockwood]

I'm not sure what hit me with this thought, but I'll share it anyway...

I got to thinking about the people that have offered ideas about aftermarket shocks and how they may help some of their issues.  (Again, not all people are experiencing this phenomenon)

So it popped into my head last night that YEARS ago I had a relatively new '71 El Camino and it of course had air shocks from Chevy.  In that system both left and right shocks were "Y" connected to equalize the pressure from side to side in normal stationary state, or at rest.  What we found in the El Camino and some of my buddy's air shock equipped cars, that when they started to sway from a load in the box or just cornering, road irregularities etc, that the air from the compressed side would raise the pressure in the other side.  This seemed to cause a slight rocking motion to some vehicles, kind of like porpoising in a boat, so to speak.  This was uncontrollable until we slowed down or straightened out for a bit.

What if our HD stock air shocks were individually hooked up?  Separate the "Y" connector and install Schroeder valve for each shock so they remain equal on each side of the swingarm...  At least in my mind it would keep equal pressure on the swingarm and not exacerbate any twisting of the swingarm causing air pressure to quickly go back and forth from air shock to air shock.

Does this ever sound remotely plausible?

This may just be a grey haired guy with a screw loose, but it seems to make sense to me.

What does everyone think?  Is this why changing out to a different aftermarket shock seems to help with the wobble? 

Granted I'm sure the aftermarket shocks have better dampening with better compression and rebound response to boot.

Thanks again for ALL the input on this.  As I said before, I tend to lean towards the, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory.

 

[Gone Fishin']

I'm still a newbie, riding a 2008 seuc, wondering if the wobble is what I have felt when powering out of a corner.  Twice now, turning onto a 4 lane highway and rolling on some throttle, it felt like the back tire slipped or maybe even went flat.  The first time it happened, i even pulled over to check the air in the tires, which was OK.  I decided maybe it was a slick spot, until it happened again on very dry clean pavement. 

Hi aushog,

No. The "high speed wobble" is not felt at the back end, but rather a movement at the front. The front wheel will seem to try to change the direction in rather quick succession, causing the handle bar to move backward/forward as if it would try to "slap the tank". In my opinion, it is much more serious, than anything happening in the back.
If anyone has a better description, please help me out.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Godeater]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

[SPIDERMAN]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

H-D has been making rubber mount frames since the early 80's Shovelhead FXR's and Tour-Glides. It's not like these frames were invented yesterday.  I find it hard to believe that any dealership would pull the chit described above BUT, I have seen very competent mechanics, guys who can build rock solid motors who have no skill in dealing with aligning a rubber mount. I've fixed a few myself that were as bad as the one above. The interesting thing is that just as our member here has described, the motor goes where it needs to be when you disconnect the offending link. They all but align themselves to within a few degrees.

B B

B B

[Hoist!]

This may or may not help here.  But something I haven't heard anyone bring up here is thee alignment of our touring bikes.  At least the ones before the 09 frame change.  We have had couple of run ins with the 3 Harley shops in the area.  One case was customer that bought new road king custom.  Complained that it pulled to the left, real bad.  She brought it in to use, she had warranty so we advised to take it back to Big Barn Harley here in Des Moines.  They told her it was normal for it to pull to the left, both the service manager and the owner told her to ride there bikes to prove they pulled too.  They went so far as to compose a letter to her on there letter head and sign it to convince her that it was NORMAL.  OMG was all we could say. This bike had very few miles on it, less then 2000.  I rode it, pull is mild description.  Violant jerk and turn to the left, super scary.  She then took it to Route 65 which is also owned by the same guy who owns the Barn.  Didn't get any farther.  Then she went to the dealer in Ames Zylstra, they told here it was the clutch cable mounted wrong from the MOCO,  are you f'n kidding me?!!!!  We finally talked her into forgeting the warranty and letting us fix it.  Got out the alignment kit, couple pieces of string and 2x4's,  set it all up.  Soon as the front mount was taken loose the motor jumped to the right 1 1/2 inch's, pretty much in line believe it or not.  Rides perfect now, no pull at all.  Now the letter is headed to MOCO corp as I write this, and the service manager from the barn called us the next day ,after the customer derived his ass chewing, how we fixed it!! Again are you kidding me???!! Don't they teach the 20 yr olds manning the lifts how to do alignments??  2nd How does A bike come from the factory that way??  Don't know if this would cause wobble, have to believe it would as you fight to keep the bike straight and it fights to go where it wants.  Just a thought.

Excellent post godeater! There are a buncha threads on how important alignment is. Some even pooled in and bought the alignment set and are sharing it throughout the country! Why am I not surprised at what you've described regarding the dealers? That's why I say screw the warranty and either work on it yourself if you're capable, or give it to a guy who knows these bikes and you can trust to do the right thing every time!

Hoist!

[SERK3]

I'm not sure what hit me with this thought, but I'll share it anyway...

I got to thinking about the people that have offered ideas about aftermarket shocks and how they may help some of their issues.  (Again, not all people are experiencing this phenomenon)

So it popped into my head last night that YEARS ago I had a relatively new '71 El Camino and it of course had air shocks from Chevy.  In that system both left and right shocks were "Y" connected to equalize the pressure from side to side in normal stationary state, or at rest.  What we found in the El Camino and some of my buddy's air shock equipped cars, that when they started to sway from a load in the box or just cornering, road irregularities etc, that the air from the compressed side would raise the pressure in the other side.  This seemed to cause a slight rocking motion to some vehicles, kind of like porpoising in a boat, so to speak.  This was uncontrollable until we slowed down or straightened out for a bit.

What if our HD stock air shocks were individually hooked up?  Separate the "Y" connector and install Schroeder valve for each shock so they remain equal on each side of the swingarm...  At least in my mind it would keep equal pressure on the swingarm and not exacerbate any twisting of the swingarm causing air pressure to quickly go back and forth from air shock to air shock.

Does this ever sound remotely plausible?

This may just be a grey haired guy with a screw loose, but it seems to make sense to me.

What does everyone think?  Is this why changing out to a different aftermarket shock seems to help with the wobble? 

Granted I'm sure the aftermarket shocks have better dampening with better compression and rebound response to boot.

Thanks again for ALL the input on this.  As I said before, I tend to lean towards the, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory.

 

I have been thinking the samething and came up with the idea the way you did, back in the day i had a 72 340 Plymouth Duster with HY JACKER Air Shocks running H-60 rear tires in a curve the body roll was so bad it would sit down on top of the tire or even from a dead start body would sit down on top of both tires, So i ran one line to each shock, and it never happened again. Have been thinking about tring this on my SERK, And not to get rid of the wobble cause i don't have those issues, but to keep a even amount of air in each shock.

[SERK3]

I love riding the wind, and drifting where the wind takes ya. Keep loose and go with it. Leave yourself room to drift and let it fly! I love tractor trailers pulling me in their draft too!

Hoist!

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

[SPIDERMAN]

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

SERK3, If I read the above correctly, you're saying the tires on a TT are an accident waiting to happen. That you know when you install them that they will blow and shred huge chunks of rubber all over the highway. Forgive me if I sound a bit incredulous, but I find that beyond irresponsible. I find that downright criminal. I think I will print your post and keep a copy in my wallet so if I get stopped for speeding passing a truck I can explain to the LEO that I was protecting myself from potential death and dismemberment at the hands of unsafe TT's.

B B

[Twolanerider]

Hoist, I agree drafting behind a big truck is fun, but please, please don't do it, I drive a TT for a living and have seen more than once what happens to 4 wheelers when a tire blows when they are riding to close, and don't even want to think what it would do to a biker. Just remember that 90% of the trailers we pull are running recaps, Most of us are on our bikes in the summer and that makes these caps even more likely to blow. I'm not preaching and i'm not taking sides with truckers, I would rather be riding my bike than sitting behind the wheel of a truck, But just think about it next time, PLEASE

Amen there brother.  Amen for sure.  Have no problem admitting that miles per incident big trucks do a great job.  But they are big.  So when problems happen they can be big problems. 

Have ridden through the debris of a cap coming loose and the debris of wrecked trucks.  Watched loads shifts.  Often problems aren't even specificially the driver's fault at the moment they happen.  Sometimes chit does just happen.  Since it does I don't trail trucks.  And I scoot around them when passing. 

Wish we didn't have to share the road with anyone.  But that's only a nice thought.  Since we do have to share the best I can do is not spoon with vehicles so large they'd not even know it if they squashed me.

[SERK3]

SERK3, If I read the above correctly, you're saying the tires on a TT are an accident waiting to happen. That you know when you install them that they will blow and shred huge chunks of rubber all over the highway. Forgive me if I sound a bit incredulous, but I find that beyond irresponsible. I find that downright criminal. I think I will print your post and keep a copy in my wallet so if I get stopped for speeding passing a truck I can explain to the LEO that I was protecting myself from potential death and dismemberment at the hands of unsafe TT's.

B B

Spiderman, Thats about it in a nut shell, The only law on the books about tires is that that trucks cannot run recaps on the steer tires. I wish they would out law recaps all together, I hate them. When i owned my trucks and trailers i refused to run anything but virgin tires (no recaps) When you see these big chunks of rubber (gators as we call them) laying on the road majority of them are from blown recaps.

[spydglide]

One more reason that I hate traveling at night.  Hard to see and miss all that road debis on the interstate (or any road) on a black night.  Still end up doing it, but don't plan for or enjoy it.  ugggh.  spyder

[sportygordy]

Mine drops lotsa revs when I'm drafting them. I get on the bumper, pull my clutch in, and let them tow me. When I start breaking the draft, I let the clutch out, catch the draft again, and pull the clutch in again. Better be paying real good attention when doing this. TT air brakes stop real well!

Hoist!

Have you ever tried that behind a cattle hauler   

[spydglide]

Have you ever tried that behind a cattle hauler   

In the rain.........pheww    har!  spyder

[Red07]

The worst wobble i have had was on Avon Venom X tires the first time it happened to me was on the way to the 100th when i would get up to about 60-65 it went crazy. I checked tire pressure wheel alignment all was good i stopped at several HD shops no problem found after i got about 500mil on the tire it went away. I thought that it must be a bad tire but i tyred twice more and the same results. I allways put new tires on before a trip and some people  put the first 500mil on at home and don't notice it, a friend of my noticed the same thing. I love Avon's on the smaller bikes i had them on my 2000 Heritage and loved them it felt like the old tiger paw advertisement the way they griped the road, and i still run them on wife's soft tail standard.

Red07

[Dan_Lockwood]

Not being the clearest person in saying what I want an answer to, I'm not sure that my original "mind" question has been answered.

On the '07 and earlier FL's, the front stabilizer link was down low in the front.  In the '08 FL's the stabilizer had been moved to the head area on the front cylinder.

The question I was looking to be answered is this; Is the '08 a better handling FL than the previous '07 and earlier FL's?

I know that the lower rear track stabilizers are used on all but the new '09 FL's and the track stabilizers seem to make a difference from low speed firmness up to and including eliminating the high speed wobble.

But are '08s susceptible to the same violent wobble as the earlier bikes?

Thanks to the oh so many that have responded and added great information to this post.  I have not yet experienced the wobble and may never because I don't ride that fast.

Thanks again.

[screwup]

  yes on my 08 seuc i had experience the woble particularly in the curves, (I am not very agressive in corners) usually 15- 30 tops above posted but it did scare the ++))_ almost out of me.   But wonders will never cease, I finally did get the twr on now if harley sold chains (it is snowing here) I could go test ride it. but.  maybe later