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[grc]

GRC.......Yup,  we understand what the catalog says about (race only...parts).  This is a brand new 2009 SE Ultra 110.  I know I already had 110 cylinders,  but new ones are a (part of) the "110 Race Kit".

YES,  they are indeed warranting the whole thing and I got an extra year to boot.  In fact,  we had discussed as an alternative my purchase of a regular 96 Ultra and them altering it to become a 110.  This would mean boring out the cases to accept the 110 jugs and (normally) an HD dealer would (NOT) cover that kind of modification.

This would have left me exposed if I had problems somewhere across the country and needed engine warranty service.  Their answer to that was to have the servicing dealership call or contact them and they would "authorize" any necessary repairs.

I'm just explaining the above to tell ya how it would have worked to have warranty if I had gone that way.

Back to my original concern.  I DO IN FACT have warranty for 3 years (one on extended) but service mgr is saying they can't maintain that warranty if we were to put in (non) Harley cams.

So if I read that correctly, they (the dealer) are warranting the engine, not H-D.  If they told you otherwise, it's BS.  H-D will not knowingly get involved with modifications that are not 100% street legal and EPA certified, and paying warranty claims on race kits installed on a street ridden bike makes them complicit and possibly subject to a huge tampering fine.  The only way I know of for the dealer to get H-D to pay is to file a false and fraudulent claim (and hope H-D doesn't catch them).

Since your dealership is in fact the warrantor in this case, I can't see any reason why installing an Andrews or other cam should be a big issue.  It's not like they have to get permission from H-D, since it's not H-D's call.  However, if they insist on sticking with H-D parts you could look at the SE251 which would be better than what you have now. 

Jerry

[HD Street Performance]

Would agree 100% with that Jerry, not trying to gang up on the original poster but there are legal issues that are being broken here and the ethics of the dealers management holds the bag to stand up to their claims because the MOCO would just not go there. Not street legal is not street legal and that holds true for a SE260, a SE251, or an Andrews 55 cam  in a customers bike, for example.

[anglia48]

I did not have a base line to compare on my 110" 08 RK; Mods as follows: Reinhart true duals, Hi flow air cleaner, Slight porting, shaved the heads and Woods 590 Knight Prowler cams. 110 HP and 115 Trq. I'm happy with the performance.

[moscooter]

 
Guys........it's been a looooooong time ago,  but I too took (Business Law) in college and have a pretty good understanding of verbal/written agreements and the difference.

Hopefully,  we don't get into any piss*** contests about that.   I would agree with the scenario where........if they're gonna "warranty" race parts and (HD won't)........why would they balk at non-Harley cams being in there.

That's a hell of a good question that will come up when I go back in after (Bike Week) which is going on right now.

Thanks for the input.

[AXIL]

    moscooter, please bear with me, are you happy with the way the bike runs? if no than disregard. if yes than I'll
  move on- my question is are you just unhappy with the dyno numbers? if yes then my question is what model of
  dyno was your bike tuned on? if the dyno was a super flow then i would good with the numbers and if the dyno was
  dyno jet then i would not be happy with the numbers. thay have a different way of calculating the numbers. but 
  it's comes out to the same amount of meat on the street. let me know.         axil

[GtreetSlide]

Here is a copy of your dyno sheet here to keep it in order.

While your dealer may extend you warrenty on the 110 race kit, I'm pretty sure it's not a street legal kit so most dealers probably won't honor the warrenty anyway. I would scrap the whole warrety consideration and go with a different torque cams as others suggested.

As far as this chart is concerned ( I think this is yours?) I notice two things. One is a considerable low end dip and lack of a smooth torque curve. To me that raises the concern that the AFR is either really off base and/of your exhaust doesn't have adaquate back pressure for the motor. I think there is a lot to be gained with better tuning, even with this combination. Again, i'd go with a different cam choise more in line with your expectations..

jimbob

[moscooter]

 
Axil......it's a dynojet that was used in the tune process.   However,  (this is a "new" location for this dealership and a new facility with a new dyno machine)......the service mgr is beginning to think there may be some clitches with the new machine and it's software.  He plans to have it checked out after Bike Week which is going on right now.

Why they (HD) geared the newer Tour models higher I have no clue.  I wish they would have stuck with the final 3.37 to 1 that my ol 2001 Road King had.  A lot easier to get out of the hole and going,  just another reason to be concerned about poor low-end torque.

The bike is running pretty good,  I would just like to get the lower rpm torque band higher and smoothed out and a cam change is likely the answer in addition to some more tune time on the dyno

[HD Street Performance]

AFR is either really off base

Perhaps but the bike is tuned by download and the pipe is non-spec. A good custom tune is mandatory. The pipe is a major influence, the cam is very big, the ports are very big, the timing is not proper either for maximum HP and torque. There are very few dealers that are true value added high performance solutions. The dealers that "get it" can and do tune well and offer packages that are better matched. That said the race package can work better but the recipe needs to be followed 100% including the pipe.

[PR3VS56]

The pipe is a major influence, the cam is very big, the ports are very big, the timing is not proper either for maximum HP and torque.

Dewey, I'm with you, our bikes need timing adjustments to extract max hp/tq.  But... do you know a tuner who is comfortable tuning with timing adjustments?  I've been to two of the best, highly respected & recommended tuners, and they don't touch timing.  They say it would take forever (using SERT or TTS).  Maybe it's easier with a PC, but I don't like them.  (thread drift, sorry, but it's beneficial to this thread too)

[HD Street Performance]

Yep
There are many tuners of this caliber. The 06up bikes especially respond to timing adjustments from a stock map. I don't know about the 110 race map specifically and what is going on there. Any good tuner tunes by knowledge of the bikes and IC engine knowlege nt by recipe and know very well what to give them to get them to run

[PR3VS56]

If you know of any on the West Coast I would sure appreciate you posting their names.  You can PM me if you like.

[HD Street Performance]

You have already been there, IIRC
RC Cycles
Hayward, CA
There are others in So Cal but I have been out of the area for so long not up to speed on the good tuners.

[PR3VS56]

Sorry to tell you -- Bob only does AFR.

[hd-dude]

Sorry to tell you -- Bob only does AFR.

Not on the bikes he tunes for me

[CVOJOE]

Not on the bikes he tunes for me

True that.........Bob is an artist too!