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[tazmun]

  I know when they came out with the 96 cu/in they switched to a hydraulic tensioner.
My question is whats the cost of that part, compared th the spring tensioner.
I've had friends replace their 88/95/103's with the new one, and I've heard
of all different monies. I think if your having it done under warranty, you
should only pay for the cost difference between the two different parts,
or is there more labor costs involved?

[grandpadoc]

  I know when they came out with the 96 cu/in they switched to a hydraulic tensioner.
My question is whats the cost of that part, compared th the spring tensioner.
I've had friends replace their 88/95/103's with the new one, and I've heard
of all different monies. I think if your having it done under warranty, you
should only pay for the cost difference between the two different parts,o
or is there more labor costs involved?

With the screaming eagle hydraulic kit, furgure about $1200.00 for parts and labor. In my opinion your better off going with gear drive like the S&S 510g kit...a little more money but then your done with it. 
Doc

[porthole]

There is a little bit more involved then just the design of the tensioners.

[Mr D]

There is a little bit more involved then just the design of the tensioners.

Is the over the counter SE kit different than what the Mo Co uses in the '07 and newer TC's ?

[grc]

  I know when they came out with the 96 cu/in they switched to a hydraulic tensioner.
My question is whats the cost of that part, compared th the spring tensioner.
I've had friends replace their 88/95/103's with the new one, and I've heard
of all different monies. I think if your having it done under warranty, you
should only pay for the cost difference between the two different parts,
or is there more labor costs involved?

If you convert to the new style, you have to also replace the cam plate, the chains, the oil pump, and the cams.  The new style cam plate isn't made for the ball/roller bearings of the old style cams.  The parts cost for the new plate, pump, tensioners, chains, and drive gear is around $440 retail if you go with the standard '07 and later parts.  If you go with the SE billet cam support plate instead of the regular production plate, add another $250 or so.  New conversion cams from folks like Andrews, Wood, etc. will run from $280 - $380.

btw, the kit that grandpadoc mentioned is something H-D came out with recently to add hydraulic tensioners to the '06 and earlier bikes without having to change the cams.  It is a new cam plate designed to work with the original cams, and it comes with the new higher volume oil pump and with hydraulic tensioners.  You only get the new roller chain on the outer chain, however.  The inner chain is still the old style to work with the stock cam sprockets. 
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448773018&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302319517&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302319517&bmUID=1255379611008&bmLocale=en_US

If you want the dealer to do the conversion under warranty, ask them to price the repair on paper all three ways; (A) - just replace the original parts with more of the same (make sure they include the chains and oil pump), (B) - change to the new production level parts with new cams, and then (C) - the new hybrid SE kit referenced above with your current cams.  The labor should be the same or very close, so the parts prices will be the real difference.  I would also have them replace the inner cam bearings with Torringtons as insurance against future cam bearing failure.

Jerry

[tazmun]

If you convert to the new style, you have to also replace the cam plate, the chains, the oil pump, and the cams.  The new style cam plate isn't made for the ball/roller bearings of the old style cams.  The parts cost for the new plate, pump, tensioners, chains, and drive gear is around $440 retail if you go with the standard '07 and later parts.  If you go with the SE billet cam support plate instead of the regular production plate, add another $250 or so.  New conversion cams from folks like Andrews, Wood, etc. will run from $280 - $380.

btw, the kit that grandpadoc mentioned is something H-D came out with recently to add hydraulic tensioners to the '06 and earlier bikes without having to change the cams.  It is a new cam plate designed to work with the original cams, and it comes with the new higher volume oil pump and with hydraulic tensioners.  You only get the new roller chain on the outer chain, however.  The inner chain is still the old style to work with the stock cam sprockets. 
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448773018&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302319517&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302319517&bmUID=1255379611008&bmLocale=en_US

If you want the dealer to do the conversion under warranty, ask them to price the repair on paper all three ways; (A) - just replace the original parts with more of the same (make sure they include the chains and oil pump), (B) - change to the new production level parts with new cams, and then (C) - the new hybrid SE kit referenced above with your current cams.  The labor should be the same or very close, so the parts prices will be the real difference.  I would also have them replace the inner cam bearings with Torringtons as insurance against future cam bearing failure.

Jerry

Thanks for the good information Jerry.

[grandpadoc]

...plus the bearing and seal kit your getting closer to the cost of a gear drive kit real quick. The new hydraulics still look like a crap shoot after 30K miles if you look at some of the more recent posts, so I'm not sure if thats the way to go. With the 510g you will have to get adjustable push rods, but other than that the heads, valve springs, pump, and cam plate all stay stock. You can feel a little more power especially when pulling a trailer with this set up also.
Loook at the S&S site for all the applications for your bike.

Doc

[Mr D]

...plus the bearing and seal kit your getting closer to the cost of a gear drive kit real quick. The new hydraulics still look like a crap shoot after 30K miles if you look at some of the more recent posts, so I'm not sure if thats the way to go. With the 510g you will have to get adjustable push rods, but other than that the heads, valve springs, pump, and cam plate all stay stock. You can feel a little more power especially when pulling a trailer with this set up also.
Loook at the S&S site for all the applications for your bike.

Doc

How much gear noise is added vs. chain drive cams ?

[hd-dude]

How much gear noise is added vs. chain drive cams ?

Depends on crank runout and gear lash. A true crank with the gear lash set up properly will have minimal added noise.

[Mr D]

Depends on crank runout and gear lash. A true crank with the gear lash set up properly will have minimal added noise.

Jim,

Is gear set up that much better than chain drive ?

[tazmun]

Depends on crank runout and gear lash. A true crank with the gear lash set up properly will have minimal added noise.

HD-DUDE,
 I'm probably only the omly one, but I'm into "basic stock". I've got friends with 124 cu/in S&S,
big Jim's etc, bikes are quick, get 30mpg or less and ALWAY"S have PROBLEMS. My friend with
the 124 S&S can do wheelies, with his Ultra, but it came unglued twice while on the road.
This is not what I'm into, I want to have some reliability. Most of the cranks, have runout
and your still taking a chance. I also have guys in our HOG chapter, that said "enough is enough"
And left their new bikes completely stock and love them. Yes, not as fast but much more reliable.

[hd-dude]

Jim,

Is gear set up that much better than chain drive ?

Than the stock 99-06 tensioners? YES. No wear issues. The 07+ tensioner system has (so far) been stable and I have not had or seen issues with the wear. The best of both worlds in my opinion is to keep the chain drive and convert to the 07+ hydro setup. This way there are no concerns with crank runout.

Now if you are going into the bottom end of the motor then have the crank trued, welded, pluged, balanced and then runout will not be an issue.  The gears are better for the best performance and longevity When the crank can support it.

[grandpadoc]

How much gear noise is added vs. chain drive cams ?

It makes a very faint wine, but I can only hear it with the lowers on. There exhaust has a little more bark with sounds  .  Doc