Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Unbalanced]

A shop down in Lecanto Florida did this build ~~ Ironhorse Parts.  John Sachs did the heads.   Sure looks fun to ride.  Was just sent the dyno tonight.  

TC46 Wild Things
Hooker Step 2 into 2

[mjb765]

That's gonna be some ride

[Yoda]

just cams and pipes?  oh and a good tune?

[Hoist!]

just cams and pipes?  oh and a good tune?

I wouldn't believe that for a minute! You're not going to get numbers like that with just cams and a pipe, I don't care how long you tune it. He said the heads were done and I'd say there's prolly some compression added too!

Hoist!

[HD Street Performance]

just cams and pipes?  oh and a good tune?

Sure plus good headwork and ~11/1 compression

[Unbalanced]

Dewey,

They didn't go for high compression as they dont want the issues associated with the heat and being at sea level here in Florida.  I am not sure what you are finding, but not everyone needs to use high compression to make horse power.  Sure big compression will make power, but there are consequences on parts such as Starters, ring gears, and the front connecting rods.   I have had a few and its not worth giving up the longevity imo.   Maybe fun, for the short term, but becomes like owning a boat a hole you just keep sinking money in. 

Happy New Year all,

[HD Street Performance]

Dewey,

They didn't go for high compression as they dont want the issues associated with the heat and being at sea level here in Florida.  I am not sure what you are finding, but not everyone needs to use high compression to make horse power.  Sure big compression will make power, but there are consequences on parts such as Starters, ring gears, and the front connecting rods.   I have had a few and its not worth giving up the longevity imo.   Maybe fun, for the short term, but becomes like owning a boat a hole you just keep sinking money in. 

Happy New Year all,

What is the static and corrected CR for this motor? What pistons were used? THX

[JCZ]

Is that yours Harry?

I'd like to run that down the street and back.

[Unbalanced]

JCZ,

It's not mine, my SEUC4 is still a virgin so to speak.  RoadGlide Air Cleaner, Catless Header, Fullsac's 2", TTS and dyno tune.   Actually thinking/considering selling it, having a lot of fun on the 05 SEEG.

I bet it would be fun to run down the road for sure.

[HD Street Performance]

Take note:
The dyno run has different scaling on the left and right sides, therefore the torque line and hp do not cross at 5,250 as they should. The run was done in STD, uncorrected. The HP peak number and TQ do not match the graph, if I am not mistaken???
No discredit to anyone PERIOD, I am sure this bike runs great, just some adjustments need to be made to the software to compare in a format we all use as the defacto standard, SAE corrected, same scales left and right sides.

[Unbalanced]

Dewey,

You seem to be a pretty smart guy, you should know the numbers are the numbers, big deal they didnt print out the dyno sheet in forced scaling whoopie doo.   The only difference would be that they lines cross at 5200.   I posted this because a lot of people want to know what is possible out of a 110 motor without making it a full race motor at 200+ CCP with fast ramp early close cams.   Most of us want to enjoy the bikes not be rebuilding every season.

Dewey my recommendation is to get with the builder he has all the detailed information and maybe he will share it with you.  I just don't have all the details and rather than give mis information its best to go to the horses mouth.

[HD Street Performance]

Often times I have said the numbers don't matter. I am sure these bikes run great. I would not be surprised however if the CCP is not at or near 200# to get that wide and high of a torque curve (I am complimenting the builder and head proter for job well done) but as you have stated it runs good and starts easy which makes sense using a cam with a 54° intake close. I am just curious so that I may learn more. I may be a smart guy but I am wide open to learning more all the time. Sharing information is how we do that.

[tennisman]

While everyone drools at peak numbers, I am more concerned with the lack of info at 2000 rpm.  I see the shape of the torque curve at 2500 and I would not want that to be a daily driver. 

[Twolanerider]

the numbers are the numbers, big deal

Than why bother posting them?

These weird dyno sheets have been posted before (by Harry at least once).  They're just entertainment. 

Even less worth than a "good" dyno sheet that adheres to commonly accepted standards and norms.  With all the variants that can go in to their production even the "good" sheets are good for little more than comparing curve shapes and ogling over beer. 

If the "good" sheets aren't worth any more than that fear not.  Sheets that beg questions by their very presentation still have a purpose.  On a roll  .

[Unbalanced]

Don,

The numbers are correct, but becuase the lines dont cross where you would like to see them doesnt make them not right.  Because the picture isnt what YOU want makes them no less valuable to someone looking at what a combination in a 110 does.  If there was a defacto standard we would only see one printout from everyone it isnt the case, so get off your soap box.

I put it up here for people to look at as a post for someone considering upgrading a motor nothing more.   It isn't my bike, but thought for the community it was worth sharing.   If you dont like it dont read it and consider it the roll you mention.

If someone is interested they can contact the shop or the porter he frequents here, just doesnt troll like some others.

[Twolanerider]

Don,

The numbers are correct, but becuase the lines dont cross where you would like to see them doesnt make them not right.  Because the picture isnt what YOU want makes them no less valuable to someone looking at what a combination in a 110 does.  If there was a defacto standard we would only see one printout from everyone it isnt the case, so get off your soap box.

No soap box Harry.  Dyno numbers are never more than a representation of controllable variables.  Period.  They can be massaged.  Any data that can be massaged is better represented in the most commonly accepted standardized formats.  Period.  Nothing hard to understand about that.  And if someone does it differently it's incumbent on them to explain why rather than it is incumbent on the audience not to have doubts.  Especially when the numbers seem a bit large for the work described.  Even more so when those vagaries have seemed perhaps a trend from the presenter over time.

Of course, since they're nor your numbers and only those you're presenting for someone else it's not as if you really care anyway.... 

[Unbalanced]

I only care because you made an effort to come forward and post.  Yet i dont see any post on Fullsacs STD  or RC Cycles 6th gear 1 to 1 pulls in STD or Vossellmans Nano Meters or another variant of non SAE that is out there.   So, when you say I care, actually i really dont. except that you made effort to stick your 2 cents into this.

So much for posting something to help people with possible combinations.   

Now since you here why is it that you havent challenged Dewey's conversion of a dyno sheet into winpep since you mention massing jeesh.  Yet one from an independent you seem to take notice of.  You're the one making it personal vs. a standard of policing the dyno sheets since they really dont matter much as you say other than a conversation piece.

One thing I forgot to mention through all this is that it is a B motor.  Which you may be able to make out on the dynosheet. 

 

[Keats]

Dewey,

You seem to be a pretty smart guy, you should know the numbers are the numbers, big deal they didnt print out the dyno sheet in forced scaling whoopie doo.   The only difference would be that they lines cross at 5200.   I posted this because a lot of people want to know what is possible out of a 110 motor without making it a full race motor at 200+ CCP with fast ramp early close cams.   Most of us want to enjoy the bikes not be rebuilding every season.

Dewey my recommendation is to get with the builder he has all the detailed information and maybe he will share it with you.  I just don't have all the details and rather than give mis information its best to go to the horses mouth.

by the definition of torque and horsepower the crossover has to be at 5250.

That is the reason most look at that point to tell if there is even any validity to the run sheet.

if the crossover point is wrong the whole sheet comes into question.

[Twolanerider]

I only care because you made an effort to come forward and post.  Yet i dont see any post on Fullsacs STD  or RC Cycles 6th gear 1 to 1 pulls in STD or Vossellmans Nano Meters or another variant of non SAE that is out there.   So when you say I care I dont only that you made effort to stick you 2 cents into this.

Now since you here why is it that you havent challenged Dewey's conversion of a dyno sheet yet one from an independent you seem to take notice of.  Your the one making it personal vs. a standard of policing the dyno sheets since they really dont matter much as you say other than a conversation piece.

 

No, I've been consistent over the years on what is and is not useful about dyno charts.  Great for advertising and curb racing.  Instructive within a singular tuning process.  But beyond that they're questionable.  Way too many variables for way too many reasons.  Only more so when variables of presentation are overlaid on the standard variables of production.

Normally if one were really trying to report they'd try to adhere to what's expected.  For some reason you've come up with slightly odd dyno sheets over the years more than anyone else though.  Of course they're always someone else's work.  You're just the messenger.  Yet you get so wound up when they're questioned.  Odd....

[Twolanerider]

by the definition of torque and horsepower the crossover has to be at 5250.

That is the reason most look at that point to tell if there is even any validity to the run sheet.

if the crossover point is wrong the whole sheet comes into question.

Hey Jeff.  Thank the Steelers have a chance?  Enough torque in Ben's arm or hp in Hine's legs to get them in?  If only the ball can cross between the two at the 5250 yard line they just might make it!

[Twolanerider]

Damn this is taking a long time.  Harry, I got pizza coming.  Will have to read your literary response later. 

[Keats]

Pretty sure Pittsburgh has a chance if they can cross the Goal line more times.

The game that has me waiting is the Eagles/Cowboys game, a second seed/buy is on the line for the Eagles and Andy has never lost a game after a week off.

I wonder what those Giant fans will be rooting for?

[Unbalanced]

Don,

Wait no longer, although you are going to be disappointed    

Still waiting for you to point out all the other enigmas in the other dynosheets that have been posted, but I know its just that special extra attention I get from you trying to keep me on my toes.

Keats,
While the picture isnt what you want to see because the columns are different in value, run a check on the numbers and you will find that they are accurate since you are into the formulas.  plug a few in see what you come up with.  

[HD Street Performance]

Take a chill pill, this is not high drama!
Harry I don't know you or have any agenda discrediting you, period

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, the head porter, or even the tuner but the display method just doesn't allow an accurate comparasion with most out there. Leave it at that. I am not saying anything about you, your integrity, or anything that should get your hackles up.
I can look at the graph and even if I don't know all the details of the dyno, the method used to sample, software, etc etc. I know the bike is a good runner.

BTW just some basic logic 101
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Wikipedia defines as:
"It is often used as a red herring, or an attempt to change or distract from the issue"

BTW I help a lot of guys or do my best and take offense to being called a spammer or "troll"
You take a day in my shoes. I, like others, field phone calls to help (my cell phone mostly it costs me for cripes sake), NO PAY FOR THAT, help them solve issues or do our best I can via the internet, Zero pay once again. These guys are not anyone I sold anything to. Why? Because I enjoy it. Same with porting heads and working on bikes / motors. Simple as that, nothing big. By the way I am not the only one either that gives like this and I admit my business has a profit motive, can't shoot me for that, it's called putting bread on the table.

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, I am trying to learn a little more about it with no help and a lot of harassment.
It is uncalled for
If you got an axe to grind don't fire on me man.

On a side note I betcha hypothetically with few test riders and testing two identical bikes one with the stock SE255 cams well tuned and the other with one of the higher numbers builds and turn them loose on the road for a test ride more than half would come back and rate the SE255 bike as having "more power". It is more about torque, the mass of it, in the range they ride in.
LOL
I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

[Wheelsnkeels]

I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

Allright that was damn funny!!!!

[Unbalanced]

Take a chill pill, this is not high drama!
Harry I don't know you or have any agenda discrediting you, period

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, the head porter, or even the tuner but the display method just doesn't allow an accurate comparasion with most out there. Leave it at that. I am not saying anything about you, your integrity, or anything that should get your hackles up.
I can look at the graph and even if I don't know all the details of the dyno, the method used to sample, software, etc etc. I know the bike is a good runner.

BTW just some basic logic 101
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Wikipedia defines as:
"It is often used as a red herring, or an attempt to change or distract from the issue"

BTW I help a lot of guys or do my best and take offense to being called a spammer or "troll"
You take a day in my shoes. I, like others, field phone calls to help (my cell phone mostly it costs me for cripes sake), NO PAY FOR THAT, help them solve issues or do our best I can via the internet, Zero pay once again. These guys are not anyone I sold anything to. Why? Because I enjoy it. Same with porting heads and working on bikes / motors. Simple as that, nothing big. By the way I am not the only one either that gives like this and I admit my business has a profit motive, can't shoot me for that, it's called putting bread on the table.

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, I am trying to learn a little more about it with no help and a lot of harassment.
It is uncalled for
If you got an axe to grind don't fire on me man.

On a side note I betcha hypothetically with few test riders and testing two identical bikes one with the stock SE255 cams well tuned and the other with one of the higher numbers builds and turn them loose on the road for a test ride more than half would come back and rate the SE255 bike as having "more power". It is more about torque, the mass of it, in the range they ride in.
LOL
I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

Dewey,

I don't have an axe to grind, but rather than saying its nice and moving on you tear into the dyno sheet then guise it by i want to learn.  These guys have a businesses too and if they feel like sharing the intimate details its up to them.  Can i fault you for asking nope, but throwing out errand compression number fishing for a response like you know what it is or what you feel it might be.  There is no reason for it other than your conjecture, but you didnt say that.

Being in the business you are in and knowing how important numbers are to the success of doing head porting and combinations a person would have to be really naive to think that you wouldn't just plot a few numbers to verify the whether the data points were valid or not.   As you know you can take any data point there and plug it into the formula and find out whether the horse power jives or not, its just not the pretty picture you want with forced scaling.   I will ask if they can get a dynosheet in SAE or STD with Forced Scaling, but it shouldnt matter.

to go one step further when you happen to get everyone to agree on the standard of what form it is printed out in please let me know.   SAE, STD, Uncorrected.   Wouldnt that be a hoot if you did manage that, accomplish that maybe dynojet, mustang, super-flow, and land and sea will only offer 1 methodology since it will be the defacto standard.  Not the case today look at this site you will see variants of every kind.  Hell on HTT its not the case either look at all the debates on the topic.

Most guys aren't used to seeing these motors not drop off at 4200 or close to it, so I posted it so they can see there are other choices out there.

You want to understand my view on the trolling comment, here is MY VIEW on it.

You want to help people I applaud it, it is what makes this site so great, you say you help people cause you have the passion, yet the next line is you have a bottomline and a business that in itself defines the trolling you combined the two not me.  You mention that you are not the only one helping that is true and it great the people spend their time doing it and many benefit from it, yet, I don't see these other guys constantly putting their number out there saying call me.  

[Keats]

Keats,
While the picture isn't what you want to see because the columns are different in value, run a check on the numbers and you will find that they are accurate since you are into the formulas.  plug a few in see what you come up with.  

OK, I give up, I have no idea what this is all about other than you posting a graph that has very little meaning or value. (that is my point)

Check what numbers? that Graph? While the picture doesn't make any sense in the form for which you posted it, you want me to extrapolate data from that?

What a waste of time like this whole thread.

[Unbalanced]

Keats,

Can you see what the torque is across the dyno sheet ?

Can you see what the horspower is at each rpm?  It is the column on the left you use.   Can you see the torque line its the one on the right side you use .  But because the lines dont intersect at 5250 its useless ...   

At any point on the torque line you can look at the rpm and verify that the horspower is right.   

Torque x RPM / 5250 = HP.   So the columns are wrong give me a break.   

Validation    3000 rpm  the bike is at 115 torque that is  65.7 HP   

Validation    5000 rpm  the bike is at 125 torque that is 119.04 hp 

All this BS because its not a pretty picture and the lines don't intersect 500 rpm sooner.   

[Hogvet70]

WOW!!!! You all sure know your chit! This thread has certainly assisted me to understand some of my dyno records I posted earlier on the cam thread. Thanks a bunch!    You all rock!!!

[Twolanerider]

Damn Harry gets excited about this chit.  At least it's just a dyno sheet that's someone else's fault this time and not something that broke...

[Hogvet70]

Hey people, I am attaching my dyno sheet that goes with the below upgrades. I was just told in another forum I should be up around the 110/120 readings instead of what this shows. Do you all agree with that? Gary

22502-07 110 Forged piston kit
25474-06 SE 258 CAM Kit
11907 Gasket kit
16801-07A Cylinder head gaskets
17997-99A Quick install Pushro
16719-99B Rocker housing gaskets
25244-99A Cam cover gasket
17386-99A Rocker cover gasket

I had already added the following:
Rinehart slip-ons
29490-09 Stage 1 kit
32109-08A  SE PRO TUNER

[HDDOCFL]

With a good tune there are 110" motors getting that and better with just a A/C and header gutted, with slip ons.   Doc.   Oh Ya and running cooler also. May what to see what the dealer can do for you.

[HD Street Performance]

I say this and I hope you don't take it personally but the work done seems to be a mismatch of parts.
The pushrods they used are the older aluminum parts that hit often times in the tubes, the cam not appropriate for a stock 110 even with added compression IMHO, plus if they used quick install pushrods why did they pull the heads and charge you that labor and gaskets, that is not needed.

Rather than focus on peak numbers what is it you wanted to accomplish by changing cams? Tell us your goal and then maybe we can look at a bailout plan.

[09S/E roadglide]

dont you have to pull the heads and jugs to change the pistons 

[HD Street Performance]

Woops I apologize, yes absolutely.

[Hogvet70]

I say this and I hope you don't take it personally but the work done seems to be a mismatch of parts.
The pushrods they used are the older aluminum parts that hit often times in the tubes, the cam not appropriate for a stock 110 even with added compression IMHO, plus if they used quick install pushrods why did they pull the heads and charge you that labor and gaskets, that is not needed.

Rather than focus on peak numbers what is it you wanted to accomplish by changing cams? Tell us your goal and then maybe we can look at a bailout plan.

Good information. I was trying to get a little boost in the HP and torque as well as I heard it would run a little cooler. It really runs great! I spoke to the dealership mechanices and they indicated in order for me to go any further with the numebrs I would need to change the exhaust all the way or make other mods. They questioned what the engine mods were that are getting those 110/120 ratings. I could not answer. Soooo. I am not displeased, I just want to make sure I am getting my bang for the buck (already spent). I also don't want it sooo hot that I need to rebuild it every year. Thanks all.....Gary

[Vosselman (NL - Europe)]

Hogvet,

We normally see around 115 ftlbs (3000-3500 rpm) and 95hp (above 4500rpm) for a stage 1 110ci CVO Touring with free flowing slipons.
The dynosheet you posted, does not show a realy nice flat afr. It goes leaner around 5500 and 6000rpm, which normally is not hard to get correct.
Wonder how well that efi was tuned..... Did they use the correct basemap? Did they touch the ignition tables, a bike with SE258 needs completely different ignition timing compared to one with SE255.

[Hogvet70]

Hogvet,

We normally see around 115 ftlbs (3000-3500 rpm) and 95hp (above 4500rpm) for a stage 1 110ci CVO Touring with free flowing slipons.
The dynosheet you posted, does not show a realy nice flat afr. It goes leaner around 5500 and 6000rpm, which normally is not hard to get correct.
Wonder how well that efi was tuned..... Did they use the correct basemap? Did they touch the ignition tables, a bike with SE258 needs completely different ignition timing compared to one with SE255.

Man that is goooood feedback. I can use that. Thanks.....Gary

[tennisman]

With my 110 with RTDs, Stage I, and SERT, I got 91 HP & 110 ft-lb torque.  I don't use the max, my area of use is usually 2000 - 2600 RPM.  That results in 40-42 mpg and plenty of power to ride 2-up over the mountains in East TN.
T

[Hogvet70]

With my 110 with RTDs, Stage I, and SERT, I got 91 HP & 110 ft-lb torque.  I don't use the max, my area of use is usually 2000 - 2600 RPM.  That results in 40-42 mpg and plenty of power to ride 2-up over the mountains in East TN.
T

Forgive my ignorance but what is SERT(Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner)? RTD(Rinehart True Duals)? This helps. I am learning a lot from these posts. Thanx....Gary

[Fired00d]

Forgive my ignorance but what is SERT(Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner)? RTD(Rinehart True Duals)? This helps. I am learning a lot from these posts. Thanx....Gary

Correct

You may want to look at this thread for more - Acronyms and Nicknames Used On CVOHarley.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Hogvet70]

Correct

You may want to look at this thread for more - Acronyms and Nicknames Used On CVOHarley.
Thx....Gary
 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Correct

You may want to look at this thread for more - Acronyms and Nicknames Used On CVOHarley.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

This one isn't in the list:  

GiaBDDH

[Hogvet70]

This one isn't in the list:  

GiaBDDH

Hmmmm. Gary is a big dumb dik head?

[Twolanerider]

Hmmmm. Gary is a big dumb dik head?

Well..... I was thinking "doo doo" but yours does fit .

[SBB]

Hmmmm. Gary is a big dumb dik head?

Gary, good thing your name isn't Gary.

                 


                        SBB

[Hogvet70]

Gary, good thing your name isn't Gary.

                 


                        SBB

Chip, I hear ya there. Maybe we will get the code. Never know.

[Fired00d]

This one isn't in the list:   

GiaBDDH

Neither is "Chithead^TM".... just sayin'

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Neither is "Chithead^TM".... just sayin'

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Ah, doo doo head; Chithead^tm isn't an acronym.  Man, someone is still recovering from New Years.

[Fired00d]

Ah, doo doo head; Chithead^tm isn't an acronym.  Man, someone is still recovering from New Years.

Yea it is... it's a polite way to call someone a "S"head.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Yea it is... it's a polite way to call someone a "S"head.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

In that case you need to start a new thread asking chithead is an acronym for.  With this crowd it might be interesting .

[DCFIREMANN]

I must say that this thread is VERY ENTERTAINING to say the least. Harry after all of these years you never cease to amaze me. The one thing that would have made it better is IT WAS YOUR DYNO SHEET!!!!! You think they had fun this time, it could have only gotten better! I would like to know exactally what went into this motor. But I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

Gentlemen please play nicely.

DOOD how did you get a trade mark for that word??? LMAO

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Fired00d]

I must say that this thread is VERY ENTERTAINING to say the least. Harry after all of these years you never cease to amaze me. The one thing that would have made it better is IT WAS YOUR DYNO SHEET!!!!! You think they had fun this time, it could have only gotten better! I would like to know exactally what went into this motor. But I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

Gentlemen please play nicely.

DOOD how did you get a trade mark for that word LMAO

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I believe when Chip won the poll he had it trademarked.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Unbalanced]

Mike,

Nothing special, that is what is so nice about the build.  The builder has been contacted and given the site address and if he wants to go into details he will.  

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

going blind here. what is the issue. So what the sheet was not posted the way one person would like to see it. This has been beat to death in the past on way too many sites.  Reading through all of this it would seem that the build is being called BS in a round about way.  The power made with that is not out of the normal range. We just did a 110 B motor with a 54 cam mild clean up on the heads. ( no issues with anything the MOCO installed, no loose guides or seats) quick cut on the heads installed a 54 cam. Bike is making 112/119. Easy basic build. No need for a narrow early closing cam, or pushing high CCP numbers.   

By the way how you doing unbalanced?? been a while.

[johnsachs]

going blind here. what is the issue. So what the sheet was not posted the way one person would like to see it. This has been beat to death in the past on way too many sites.  Reading through all of this it would seem that the build is being called BS in a round about way.  The power made with that is not out of the normal range. We just did a 110 B motor with a 54 cam mild clean up on the heads. ( no issues with anything the MOCO installed, no loose guides or seats) quick cut on the heads installed a 54 cam. Bike is making 112/119. Easy basic build. No need for a narrow early closing cam, or pushing high CCP numbers.   :

Steve,
How are you doing.
It never ceases to amaze me of the ignorance of someone,who professes to be in this business  .Guess he created himself as "a legend in his own mind".Oh well........... I sure didn't deserve the amount of phone calls I got about this.
John

[HD Street Performance]

OK
First, I don't deserve the disrespect, I certainly didn't give that to you. I do respect your work and never said this build was not a good performer. In fact trying to show respect for you and your hard work I tried to emphasize there is nothing wrong in nearly every post.
Second, I put my pants on one leg at a time just like everyone, no legend just another working stiff
Third, on many major forums there has been agreement amongst tuners to display dyno sheets in SAE and in direct gear just for the sake of consistency, I call it a defacto standard, call it what you like or to hell with it and ignore it. Bottom line is I am not a cop or really give a rip. I have always looked at trends and aggregate torque to make judgements so bottom line is this build looks great. There still are many riders that want the SE255 type of build however and never break 4k, well we, as a group of porter / engine builders can go there too. So whatever the customer wants it can be done.
John
You are right, you should not have had one phone call regarding the build and questioning and I sincerely apologize if you think I contributed to that. It is not my intention to stir any pots or discredit anyone.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Don

I would agree that a defacto standard is best however, many times that is not going to be the case and the formula to correct the numbers to what ever you want are out there. I run all in SAE and 1:1 ratio... Now I have been told in the past I should not, tire rating speed, fudging the numbers etc. I have always run the bike for the final numbers in 4th, 5th, and 6th ( if it is a 1:1 6th) so that customer can have what ever one he wants.

Today the wind blows in that direction maybe next week we will have to put the in NM who knows I for one could care aless. Just had a customer take his bike to a shop to swap one performance a/c to another. Bike was tuned before this new a/c install after the next a/c install this shop did a retune. It gain 42 hp. Needless to say the customer will not be having his work done at that shop or the other shop that recommended the tuning shop. 

Off topic maybe but it only goes to show you that dyno sheets are going to be in many different forms. Best a person can do is try and compare sheets in the same form, or only look at the curves on the sheet.

[Hoist!]

HeHe!!! Let the Dyno wars begin!!!

Hoist!

[16HD117]

HeHe!!! Let the Dyno wars begin!!!

Hoist!

Is this round 8 or 9???
 

[HD Street Performance]

If anyone has the interest here is a post that spans 20+ pages on dynos and the legitimacy of the numbers.
There is some good data there for someone that wants to learn if you separate the wheat from the chaff.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/118100-doc-response-your-last-post-deleted.html

[Hoist!]

Kinda shows ya what happens when the dyno is being used as a marketing tool instead of a tuning tool like it was intended to be. If it were used as a true tuning tool only, there'd be a scale with NO numbers at all. Then it would only be about the tool and tune, and not about the "bragging rights" at all! I like the Factory Pro used with an EGA!!!

FTN!!!

Factory Pro

You can tell Springer about my plug if ya want Don!

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

going blind here. what is the issue. So what the sheet was not posted the way one person would like to see it. This has been beat to death in the past on way too many sites.  Reading through all of this it would seem that the build is being called BS in a round about way.  The power made with that is not out of the normal range. We just did a 110 B motor with a 54 cam mild clean up on the heads. ( no issues with anything the MOCO installed, no loose guides or seats) quick cut on the heads installed a 54 cam. Bike is making 112/119. Easy basic build. No need for a narrow early closing cam, or pushing high CCP numbers.   

By the way how you doing unbalanced?? been a while.

BTW, how ya doing Steve?! Happy New Year to ya man!!!

Hoist!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

But the main thing you forget or overlooked about that entire thread was this.  Since the main core of that thread was about a build Hillside did and JOE tuned was this.....Joe did not print the conditions at time of tune  & that was uncorrected. That is not the case here the sheet is in STD and has the weather conditions on it when it was tuned. ( do the math and you have the figures everything is there that you need)  This sheet is not crushed and put into 3 parts to hide any dips as sheets from that tuner have been in the past. Nothing is hidden , I have printed sheets that have not been in forced scaling. Whoops   easy to reset that and re print.

IS that really the big deal here a sheet that was in STD ( by the way countless shop show sheets this way) and it was not in forced scale.  

Don't take this to heart Don but you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Point of this thread in the start was to show that there are very simple ways to make respectable power with out getting out of hand budget wise. The build did just that.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I am doing as well as can be.  Happy that 2009 is over.. 

[HD Street Performance]

making a mountain out of a mole hill

Not I, I know the software and know it is a few mouse clicks away from being SAE and force scaled.
I made the point only, and I have to repeat this again, just to show that there was a discrepancy, and at the same time showed respect to the builder and owner, or so I thought.

Oh to heck with it, I am disturbed that I appear to have alienated John Sachs which was not intended.

I am done
I won't bother with this any longer.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

STD non force

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

std forced

[Unbalanced]

GMR,

But the numbers are the same>?>?   wow all over a non pretty picture yet the data is valid

Thanks for posting those up, maybe now it can be put to rest as tommy said its beating a dead horse, although someone will still take issue that the numbers dont cross at 5250 again big whoop yet here you proved the numbers are the numbers when then run data is there to validate it.

Too bad your near 6000 ft above sea level, when you building that pressurized booth to handle that correction factor      

You know even if were to you build it you will still get chit for over pressurizing it.

Thanks and Happy New Year.

[Harleyrider_49]

WOWWWWWW!!!!!!! Man , this has really stirred up some C H I T ! ! I have looked at this cam for awhile, and was want'n to use it myself, and had asked about it here on this forum. Are'nt they the Wild Things TC46G? Anyway, got my best advice here from Don(deweysheads) and also talked to him about my build,anyway, sheet or no sheet, glad someone is see'n some outstand'n #'s from this grind,but sorry to see the thread has stirred up so much "CHIT"! ! Still plan on "Do'n the Deuce" but , with bad economic times , it'll have to wait a bit longer

[FATHERTIME]

You said you were watching this, so I thought I'd jump in. Joined this evening, looks good to me. I think I can get alot of answers here. I'll talk to ya later.

[Tom149]

I'd like to see a SAE corrected Dyno Sheet!   

Tom