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[Twolanerider]

Don,

The numbers are correct, but becuase the lines dont cross where you would like to see them doesnt make them not right.  Because the picture isnt what YOU want makes them no less valuable to someone looking at what a combination in a 110 does.  If there was a defacto standard we would only see one printout from everyone it isnt the case, so get off your soap box.

No soap box Harry.  Dyno numbers are never more than a representation of controllable variables.  Period.  They can be massaged.  Any data that can be massaged is better represented in the most commonly accepted standardized formats.  Period.  Nothing hard to understand about that.  And if someone does it differently it's incumbent on them to explain why rather than it is incumbent on the audience not to have doubts.  Especially when the numbers seem a bit large for the work described.  Even more so when those vagaries have seemed perhaps a trend from the presenter over time.

Of course, since they're nor your numbers and only those you're presenting for someone else it's not as if you really care anyway.... 

[Unbalanced]

I only care because you made an effort to come forward and post.  Yet i dont see any post on Fullsacs STD  or RC Cycles 6th gear 1 to 1 pulls in STD or Vossellmans Nano Meters or another variant of non SAE that is out there.   So, when you say I care, actually i really dont. except that you made effort to stick your 2 cents into this.

So much for posting something to help people with possible combinations.   

Now since you here why is it that you havent challenged Dewey's conversion of a dyno sheet into winpep since you mention massing jeesh.  Yet one from an independent you seem to take notice of.  You're the one making it personal vs. a standard of policing the dyno sheets since they really dont matter much as you say other than a conversation piece.

One thing I forgot to mention through all this is that it is a B motor.  Which you may be able to make out on the dynosheet. 

 

[Keats]

Dewey,

You seem to be a pretty smart guy, you should know the numbers are the numbers, big deal they didnt print out the dyno sheet in forced scaling whoopie doo.   The only difference would be that they lines cross at 5200.   I posted this because a lot of people want to know what is possible out of a 110 motor without making it a full race motor at 200+ CCP with fast ramp early close cams.   Most of us want to enjoy the bikes not be rebuilding every season.

Dewey my recommendation is to get with the builder he has all the detailed information and maybe he will share it with you.  I just don't have all the details and rather than give mis information its best to go to the horses mouth.

by the definition of torque and horsepower the crossover has to be at 5250.

That is the reason most look at that point to tell if there is even any validity to the run sheet.

if the crossover point is wrong the whole sheet comes into question.

[Twolanerider]

I only care because you made an effort to come forward and post.  Yet i dont see any post on Fullsacs STD  or RC Cycles 6th gear 1 to 1 pulls in STD or Vossellmans Nano Meters or another variant of non SAE that is out there.   So when you say I care I dont only that you made effort to stick you 2 cents into this.

Now since you here why is it that you havent challenged Dewey's conversion of a dyno sheet yet one from an independent you seem to take notice of.  Your the one making it personal vs. a standard of policing the dyno sheets since they really dont matter much as you say other than a conversation piece.

 

No, I've been consistent over the years on what is and is not useful about dyno charts.  Great for advertising and curb racing.  Instructive within a singular tuning process.  But beyond that they're questionable.  Way too many variables for way too many reasons.  Only more so when variables of presentation are overlaid on the standard variables of production.

Normally if one were really trying to report they'd try to adhere to what's expected.  For some reason you've come up with slightly odd dyno sheets over the years more than anyone else though.  Of course they're always someone else's work.  You're just the messenger.  Yet you get so wound up when they're questioned.  Odd....

[Twolanerider]

by the definition of torque and horsepower the crossover has to be at 5250.

That is the reason most look at that point to tell if there is even any validity to the run sheet.

if the crossover point is wrong the whole sheet comes into question.

Hey Jeff.  Thank the Steelers have a chance?  Enough torque in Ben's arm or hp in Hine's legs to get them in?  If only the ball can cross between the two at the 5250 yard line they just might make it!

[Twolanerider]

Damn this is taking a long time.  Harry, I got pizza coming.  Will have to read your literary response later. 

[Keats]

Pretty sure Pittsburgh has a chance if they can cross the Goal line more times.

The game that has me waiting is the Eagles/Cowboys game, a second seed/buy is on the line for the Eagles and Andy has never lost a game after a week off.

I wonder what those Giant fans will be rooting for?

[Unbalanced]

Don,

Wait no longer, although you are going to be disappointed    

Still waiting for you to point out all the other enigmas in the other dynosheets that have been posted, but I know its just that special extra attention I get from you trying to keep me on my toes.

Keats,
While the picture isnt what you want to see because the columns are different in value, run a check on the numbers and you will find that they are accurate since you are into the formulas.  plug a few in see what you come up with.  

[HD Street Performance]

Take a chill pill, this is not high drama!
Harry I don't know you or have any agenda discrediting you, period

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, the head porter, or even the tuner but the display method just doesn't allow an accurate comparasion with most out there. Leave it at that. I am not saying anything about you, your integrity, or anything that should get your hackles up.
I can look at the graph and even if I don't know all the details of the dyno, the method used to sample, software, etc etc. I know the bike is a good runner.

BTW just some basic logic 101
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Wikipedia defines as:
"It is often used as a red herring, or an attempt to change or distract from the issue"

BTW I help a lot of guys or do my best and take offense to being called a spammer or "troll"
You take a day in my shoes. I, like others, field phone calls to help (my cell phone mostly it costs me for cripes sake), NO PAY FOR THAT, help them solve issues or do our best I can via the internet, Zero pay once again. These guys are not anyone I sold anything to. Why? Because I enjoy it. Same with porting heads and working on bikes / motors. Simple as that, nothing big. By the way I am not the only one either that gives like this and I admit my business has a profit motive, can't shoot me for that, it's called putting bread on the table.

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, I am trying to learn a little more about it with no help and a lot of harassment.
It is uncalled for
If you got an axe to grind don't fire on me man.

On a side note I betcha hypothetically with few test riders and testing two identical bikes one with the stock SE255 cams well tuned and the other with one of the higher numbers builds and turn them loose on the road for a test ride more than half would come back and rate the SE255 bike as having "more power". It is more about torque, the mass of it, in the range they ride in.
LOL
I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

[Wheelsnkeels]

I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

Allright that was damn funny!!!!

[Unbalanced]

Take a chill pill, this is not high drama!
Harry I don't know you or have any agenda discrediting you, period

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, the head porter, or even the tuner but the display method just doesn't allow an accurate comparasion with most out there. Leave it at that. I am not saying anything about you, your integrity, or anything that should get your hackles up.
I can look at the graph and even if I don't know all the details of the dyno, the method used to sample, software, etc etc. I know the bike is a good runner.

BTW just some basic logic 101
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Wikipedia defines as:
"It is often used as a red herring, or an attempt to change or distract from the issue"

BTW I help a lot of guys or do my best and take offense to being called a spammer or "troll"
You take a day in my shoes. I, like others, field phone calls to help (my cell phone mostly it costs me for cripes sake), NO PAY FOR THAT, help them solve issues or do our best I can via the internet, Zero pay once again. These guys are not anyone I sold anything to. Why? Because I enjoy it. Same with porting heads and working on bikes / motors. Simple as that, nothing big. By the way I am not the only one either that gives like this and I admit my business has a profit motive, can't shoot me for that, it's called putting bread on the table.

I said it repeatedly there is nothing wrong with that build, I am trying to learn a little more about it with no help and a lot of harassment.
It is uncalled for
If you got an axe to grind don't fire on me man.

On a side note I betcha hypothetically with few test riders and testing two identical bikes one with the stock SE255 cams well tuned and the other with one of the higher numbers builds and turn them loose on the road for a test ride more than half would come back and rate the SE255 bike as having "more power". It is more about torque, the mass of it, in the range they ride in.
LOL
I rode a Honda Hurricane 1100 once. Only other bike I have riden other than Triumphs, BSA, Norton, and Harleys. I went around for about a 5 mile ride came back and told the guy it was a dog but had great brakes and was nimble. He asked where I shifted. I said about 4,000. He got a good hard laugh out of that. I thought I was winding it pretty good.

Dewey,

I don't have an axe to grind, but rather than saying its nice and moving on you tear into the dyno sheet then guise it by i want to learn.  These guys have a businesses too and if they feel like sharing the intimate details its up to them.  Can i fault you for asking nope, but throwing out errand compression number fishing for a response like you know what it is or what you feel it might be.  There is no reason for it other than your conjecture, but you didnt say that.

Being in the business you are in and knowing how important numbers are to the success of doing head porting and combinations a person would have to be really naive to think that you wouldn't just plot a few numbers to verify the whether the data points were valid or not.   As you know you can take any data point there and plug it into the formula and find out whether the horse power jives or not, its just not the pretty picture you want with forced scaling.   I will ask if they can get a dynosheet in SAE or STD with Forced Scaling, but it shouldnt matter.

to go one step further when you happen to get everyone to agree on the standard of what form it is printed out in please let me know.   SAE, STD, Uncorrected.   Wouldnt that be a hoot if you did manage that, accomplish that maybe dynojet, mustang, super-flow, and land and sea will only offer 1 methodology since it will be the defacto standard.  Not the case today look at this site you will see variants of every kind.  Hell on HTT its not the case either look at all the debates on the topic.

Most guys aren't used to seeing these motors not drop off at 4200 or close to it, so I posted it so they can see there are other choices out there.

You want to understand my view on the trolling comment, here is MY VIEW on it.

You want to help people I applaud it, it is what makes this site so great, you say you help people cause you have the passion, yet the next line is you have a bottomline and a business that in itself defines the trolling you combined the two not me.  You mention that you are not the only one helping that is true and it great the people spend their time doing it and many benefit from it, yet, I don't see these other guys constantly putting their number out there saying call me.  

[Keats]

Keats,
While the picture isn't what you want to see because the columns are different in value, run a check on the numbers and you will find that they are accurate since you are into the formulas.  plug a few in see what you come up with.  

OK, I give up, I have no idea what this is all about other than you posting a graph that has very little meaning or value. (that is my point)

Check what numbers? that Graph? While the picture doesn't make any sense in the form for which you posted it, you want me to extrapolate data from that?

What a waste of time like this whole thread.

[Unbalanced]

Keats,

Can you see what the torque is across the dyno sheet ?

Can you see what the horspower is at each rpm?  It is the column on the left you use.   Can you see the torque line its the one on the right side you use .  But because the lines dont intersect at 5250 its useless ...   

At any point on the torque line you can look at the rpm and verify that the horspower is right.   

Torque x RPM / 5250 = HP.   So the columns are wrong give me a break.   

Validation    3000 rpm  the bike is at 115 torque that is  65.7 HP   

Validation    5000 rpm  the bike is at 125 torque that is 119.04 hp 

All this BS because its not a pretty picture and the lines don't intersect 500 rpm sooner.   

[Hogvet70]

WOW!!!! You all sure know your chit! This thread has certainly assisted me to understand some of my dyno records I posted earlier on the cam thread. Thanks a bunch!    You all rock!!!

[Twolanerider]

Damn Harry gets excited about this chit.  At least it's just a dyno sheet that's someone else's fault this time and not something that broke...