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[FNGw/08SERK]

Don, somehow H-D just keeps finding ways to take simple technology that isn't problematic anywhere else and screw it up.  And what's even worse is they seem to keep getting away with it without the major repercussions that would be felt by other companies if their products crapped out if you drove them over bumpy roads, for instance.  What kind of total BS is that?  I wonder if Toyota or Ford could just tell their customers that they might have to get their electrical connectors in their cars disassembled, tweaked, cleaned, and reassembled at 8,000 miles, or that they should avoid rough roads?  And btw, I don't suppose all that disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling is going to loosen the fit of those pins and sockets at all.  No need to worry, I'm sure H-D will make certain that only the most highly trained technicians are allowed to screw with this stuff.  Or maybe the wash boy, if no highly trained tech is available.


Jerry

All valid points Jerry but as long as we're drinkin' the koolaid I don't have to tell you that it'll never change. Brightside is new bikes price points continue to skyrocket for decades old technology but the demo is aging .... and I'm sorry to say quickly. Change is coming ... I just wish it was directed positively toward the loyalists. JMO of coarse 

[JerseyT]

Just to clarify ... should the dielectric grease be packed in both the ECM and Throttle wiring connectors?

[Black Diamond]

Chip

I feel your pain. My latest electronic gremlin had to do with this damn electronic throttle control system, corrosion in the connections on the throttle body, Harley's knowledge that the problem exist and no fix on the horizon. Seems like "pack it with dielectric grease" is the new message. Kinda like "that's normal"!

1st time my scooter went into limp mode, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to described where I am at so someone can come get me. Not a good feeling when your off riding by yourself in the sticks.

I never saw this tech bulletin or I would have shared it back when I posted my 08 seems to be ok, for now. Good post Chip, keeping everyone informed! Because mother Harley isn't going to!

Jerry

I been waiting for your post.
Unfortunately there seems to be no plan.
And yesterday when riding the 01 SERG on the Blue Ridge Parkway I was very thankful there was no TBW on that bike.

SBB

The exact reason I got the 02 Candy Brandy. Next time the TBW causes me a problem may be the last time I deal with it. Nice to have options.

[Black Diamond]

BTW  The corrosion on my scooter's throttle connector was so minuscule we almost missed it. Upon close examination with a good flashlight you could just see "something" on a pin. This would not be hard to miss.

JW

[Twolanerider]

I know this is a totally dumb question, but what is the MoCo's plan to eliminate that problem (other than having the owner's remove pins from connectors and clean them, that is)?  Sounds like just more of the same ol' same ol', with the customer bearing the burden of poor design/poor manufacturing/poor customer service.  I'd hate to be riding across the desert out west and go into "limp home" mode 200 miles from anywhere.  And why is this not considered a safety defect requiring a recall? 

Absolutely amazing, once again.


Jerry

Jerry

I been waiting for your post.
Unfortunately there seems to be no plan.
And yesterday when riding the 01 SERG on the Blue Ridge Parkway I was very thankful there was no TBW on that bike.

SBB

I know we've hashed this topic before from different angles.  But these types of problems and HD's sophomoric and insipid responses to them (at the local and corporate level) are what makes me have zero interest in any new bike.  Mother Harley has for years had difficulties with any new major component release.  Know they're even seemingly regularly cutting corners on the R&D and institutional memory necessary to keep simple component exercises failsafed to levels of expected automotive reliability.

Those trans bearings and their asinine replacement specs in the first year of release for the Dynas, cam bearings in the initial Twin Cams, all the problems with the initial 110s and on and on and on.  None of that even addresses the subcomponent issues with their inability to manage subcontractors for CVO paint or things like cyclical bad chrome.

It is all that that makes me picky about the years of bikes I choose to really appreciate, what I'm willing to do with them and why I'll prefer them over anything more contemporary.  When "contemporary reliability" is a step back it is to be avoided.  TBW issues are too common (in HD's world), they now apparently can't keep a harness clean more than a year at a time and.... well; this is a list that could run on ad nauseum.

I've got throttle and idle cables.  I've got brakes that will lock up when you stomp on them, but are at least predictable.  I've got... well; old bikes.  But I'm not crying Harleyanna about things that will get better if I'm just a bit more patient with Mother Harley.  My bikes are what they are.  Complicated enough (though not at all by the modern automotive standards of their day), but notsomuch that a guy with a few tools can't keep them going.  And I don't have to deal with this petty nonsense over and over and over again.

[Black Diamond]

Well said!

JW

[skreminegul07]

Chip

I feel your pain. My latest electronic gremlin had to do with this damn electronic throttle control system, corrosion in the connections on the throttle body, Harley's knowledge that the problem exist and no fix on the horizon. Seems like "pack it with dielectric grease" is the new message. Kinda like "that's normal"!

1st time my scooter went into limp mode, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to described where I am at so someone can come get me. Not a good feeling when your off riding by yourself in the sticks.

I never saw this tech bulletin or I would have shared it back when I posted my 08 seems to be ok, for now. Good post Chip, keeping everyone informed! Because mother Harley isn't going to!
 

The exact reason I got the 02 Candy Brandy. Next time the TBW causes me a problem may be the last time I deal with it. Nice to have options.

Dielectric Grease, the new Preparation "H"

[Black Diamond]

LOL 

[skreminegul07]

That's why really good products use gold connections for electronics.  All the automotive air bag electronics have gold contacts (at least they were from first introduction to about 10 years ago) .  I can imagine how fast that little bit of corrosion will occur near salt water.  That corrosion must be occurring on all the dozens of other pins too,  What other gremlins and symptoms are out there?  But until then.....

[grc]

That's why really good products use gold connections for electronics.  All the automotive air bag electronics have gold contacts (at least they were from first introduction to about 10 years ago) .  I can imagine how fast that little bit of corrosion will occur near salt water.  That corrosion must be occurring on all the dozens of other pins too,  What other gremlins and symptoms are out there?  But until then.....

Exactly Phil.  Similar issues were found with electrical connections and sensitive electronics in auto's decades ago, and measures were taken then to improve the materials and to seal the connections, and also pack the connections with dielectric compound as well.  Pull apart the connectors on your car or truck for the critical electronics in the engine management system, the ABS, the airbags, etc. and you will find these things. 

One of the things I don't understand is how H-D can constantly reinvent defects that were identified and fixed elsewhere 10 or 20 years earlier.  They don't actually invent any of this stuff, they sub most of it out to companies like Delphi for pete's sake.  Since Delphi is highly aware of the importance of any increased resistance in this type of circuit, I have to believe there are some other factors such as $$ that cause these problems to resurface.  Things like better quality pin and socket materials, connector seals, and dielectric compound cost more.  And even though they charge more for some of their motorcycles than car companies do for a modern 4 or 5 passenger car or SUV, H-D is obviously so inefficient that they have to scrimp on the important parts to maintain the profit margins.

I'd still like to know how this issue doesn't even deserve a real service bulletin, much less a recall.  Hiding this in a "Tech Tip" is ridiculous.  Especially after all the hoopla over Toyota's throttle control issues, someone at H-D needs to remove their head from their butt and finally become proactive. 


Jerry

[SIX38]

Should we all be proactive about this and take the connectors apart now and do the swab / alcohol / dielectric grease treatment before we go limp?? What's everyone's opinion?

Tom P.

[miker]

Great info....time to torment the local idjits.  This 09 I have had the same s hitty fuse box my 07 had...I found on the 07 solder joints on the pin backs that looked to have missed the flux stage of prep...this 09 had a burned up a acc fuse without any load on it after being switched on..the short was the fuse box..oh and it blew the P&A fuse...Oy...friggin idjits..

[grc]

Should we all be proactive about this and take the connectors apart now and do the swab / alcohol / dielectric grease treatment before we go limp?? What's everyone's opinion?

Tom P.

With one big caveat, I would say yes.  If I personally owned a throttle-by-wire Harley I would disassemble, inspect, clean, replace suspect looking pins, and reassemble with dielectric compound.  I would also check the backside of the connectors (where the wires enter) to make certain they are totally sealed, and if they aren't I would seal them.

The caveat is, only someone who is familiar with this stuff should mess with it.  These electronic circuits are very touchy, and even tiny voltage drops will cause all sorts of headaches.


Jerry

[tazmun]

With one big caveat, I would say yes.  If I personally owned a throttle-by-wire Harley I would disassemble, inspect, clean, replace suspect looking pins, and reassemble with dielectric compound.  I would also check the backside of the connectors (where the wires enter) to make certain they are totally sealed, and if they aren't I would seal them.

The caveat is, only someone who is familiar with this stuff should mess with it.  These electronic circuits are very touchy, and even tiny voltage drops will cause all sorts of headaches.


Jerry

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

[Twolanerider]

Jerry,
   Just wondering.......would you do the same with a $35k/$40k Ford or Chevy pickup, or jam it up the dealers
you know what?

I'll not speak for Jerry but can say what I'd do. Were it an issue I knew I could deal with and was seriously doubtful the servicing dealer could effectively do I'd do my own. Sometimes it's not about right or wrong it's about confidence in getting in.