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[investorbp]

I haven't posted for over a year & traded my '07 SERK for a '10 FLHX just over a year ago.  Wanted tunes & just love this ride except the lack of power.  Just heard about the new crate engine that the Motor Company came out with recently & am seriously considering doing an upgrade next spring.  Anyone buy one yet or is it still too new of an offering?  Got a quote yesterday from my dealer & it's not a cheap undertaking but my last CVO bike cost $10-g more than a regular one & I don't really care about all the chrome goodies.  What gets me is the potential of doubling the hp & the huge jump in torque.  That's got to be some ride.  Checkout this link on You Tube if you haven't already where the presenter states, "it's the cure for the common bike."   

[RedEagle]

Keep us posted...I have heard about this engine.

RedEagle

[Wild Card]

Are you able to buy this?  I know they were warning that it wasn't for sale for street application (racers only) but wasn't sure how they could even enforce that. 

[HD Street Performance]

Anyone can buy one, or any of the pieces to build one right out of the book. They have recieved a lot of press on other sites.

[investorbp]

I first saw the engine in the latest HOG magazine & called my dealer the next day.  It's about a $10,000 investment w/all the other goodies i.e, pipe, breather, Pro Tuner, better clutch, oil cooler, labor, dyno time, etc.  Can you imagine doubling the horsepower plus at least a 50% bump in torque?  I like the fact that it's a Harley built engine at their Pilgrim plant in Milwaukee.  They say it's only available for racing but that's not accurate as any dealer will sell it if you give them $.  I'd like to hear an opinion of how streetable it is but it's still fairly new.

[pkl]

I understand they had a recall and are now just sending them out or will be shortly.

[ultrafxr]

I first saw the engine in the latest HOG magazine & called my dealer the next day.  It's about a $10,000 investment w/all the other goodies i.e, pipe, breather, Pro Tuner, better clutch, oil cooler, labor, dyno time, etc.  Can you imagine doubling the horsepower plus at least a 50% bump in torque?  I like the fact that it's a Harley built engine at their Pilgrim plant in Milwaukee.  They say it's only available for racing but that's not accurate as any dealer will sell it if you give them $.  I'd like to hear an opinion of how streetable it is but it's still fairly new.

They don't have a download available?  Every motor has to be custom tuned?   

[investorbp]

Regarding whether there's a download available, good question but I don't know yet.  My dealer hasn't done one yet but put a quote together immediately inclusive of 4-hrs of dyno time.  Actually, it was a Super Tuner, not a Pro Tuner.  I'd just like to know that this is the right way to go for a bike that will be street ridden only, a long trip from time to time w/an occasional few runs at the drag strip once in awhile.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I haven't posted for over a year & traded my '07 SERK for a '10 FLHX just over a year ago.  Wanted tunes & just love this ride except the lack of power.  Just heard about the new crate engine that the Motor Company came out with recently & am seriously considering doing an upgrade next spring.  Anyone buy one yet or is it still too new of an offering?  Got a quote yesterday from my dealer & it's not a cheap undertaking but my last CVO bike cost $10-g more than a regular one & I don't really care about all the chrome goodies.  What gets me is the potential of doubling the hp & the huge jump in torque.  That's got to be some ride.  Checkout this link on You Tube if you haven't already where the presenter states, "it's the cure for the common bike."   

The 266 cam, that they come with, ain't no bagger cam, even if the compression is brought up another point to support it correctly.
BUT, a Wood 408 is a shoe-in at the "advertised" compression, and will slide under the springs as well.
NOW we are talking about a bagger-type power curve.
THAT, combined with a couple other mods, to enhance air flow/cylinder fill, and it should straighten those out.
Scott

[HD Street Performance]

Tire shredding time! That is the Electric Motor cam as far as I'm concerned. Have it in my bike

[IMAbadman]

For that kind of money a good engine builder could put together a package having better reliability and would actually produce the figures HD advertises. 

My personal experience with the build on my 2008 110ci... HD should not even be allowed to assemble Big Wheels.  Cheap, imported, poor quality parts and overall disregard for precision. 

The first thing any racing team would do with that motor is to pull it completely apart and rebuild it using known quality parts and acceptable engine tolerances.  Can you imagine if HD came along and said the crank on that beast is allowed to have crank run out of  0.012”?!?

Just my opinion guys.  Don’t get me wrong I like my Harley but you have to admit they really let the public down on their declining quality and workmanship.   When you put lipstick on a pig it’s still just a pig.

[Wild Card]

For that kind of money a good engine builder could put together a package having better reliability and would actually produce the figures HD advertises. 

My personal experience with the build on my 2008 110ci... HD should not even be allowed to assemble Big Wheels.  Cheap, imported, poor quality parts and overall disregard for precision. 

The first thing any racing team would do with that motor is to pull it completely apart and rebuild it using known quality parts and acceptable engine tolerances.  Can you imagine if HD came along and said the crank on that beast is allowed to have crank run out of  0.012”?!?

Just my opinion guys.  Don’t get me wrong I like my Harley but you have to admit they really let the public down on their declining quality and workmanship.   When you put lipstick on a pig it’s still just a pig.

Well, they did trademark HOG!   

[Proctor]

That's exactly what I did.  I still have a 110, but putting out simular numbers to the 120R but for half the $!!!

[investorbp]

That's exactly what I did.  I still have a 110, but putting out simular numbers to the 120R but for half the $!!!

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for as if I can do something performance comparable, w/better reliability & for less $, that's where I'm headed.  The thing is finding the right source who really knows their stuff & has a proven track record w/many satisfied customers on the street.  I live in the suburbs of Chicago & we have many dealers in the area but many are just bolt on parts experts.  I'm really looking to improve the performance of my bike engine-wise plus suspension-wise as in my opinion, it rides very rough.  Thanks for the comments.

[IMAbadman]

I don't think I'd use a HD dealer shop unless you really have a good relationship with them and know the mechanics.  Not that they're bad or anything, I just don't think many have a reputation of building performance engines.  A dealership would have no problem throwing a crank back into an engine with 0.010” run out because the book says it’s OK.

Depending on your mechanical abilities do the work yourself sending out the machining portions of the build to qualified shops or the whole engine for that matter.  I see your in the Chicago suburbs… bring your cycle to one of the top crank and engine builders in the nation here in Wisconsin (Hoban Bros./Darkhorse).

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

That's exactly what I did.  I still have a 110, but putting out simular numbers to the 120R but for half the $!!!

..............and that is easily established!!
Scott

[HUBBARD]

I don't think I'd use a HD dealer shop unless you really have a good relationship with them and know the mechanics.  Not that they're bad or anything, I just don't think many have a reputation of building performance engines.  A dealership would have no problem throwing a crank back into an engine with 0.010” run out because the book says it’s OK.

Depending on your mechanical abilities do the work yourself sending out the machining portions of the build to qualified shops or the whole engine for that matter.  I see your in the Chicago suburbs… bring your cycle to one of the top crank and engine builders in the nation here in Wisconsin (Hoban Bros./Darkhorse).

This is true.  Don Tilley, of Tilley's HD in Statesville, and Salisbury, NC, has built Shovels, Evo's, and the Twin-Cam I own now, for me.  They have all been Rockets.  Any and all failures I've had, have been from abuse.  Neal Taylor has done most of the Machine work, assembly, and tuning.  Tilley has worked the Heads and Throttle body, and has always been there during the assembly.  Neal is very sharp, and very conscientious about his work.  Tilley has taught him well.  The build shops around our immediate area just don't have the type of reputation, in any department, that appeals to me.  Bolt-on HP, from these clowns at the Harley Shops up here, is just in the way.  I live to bust their a$$!  Later--HUBBARD               

[HUBBARD]

BTW, thought about replacing my troubled 120 with one of these, but too many modifications to fit in my '02 Frame.  I'll just keep my Ol' Zipper's 120, that no Jim's 120 or 131 can outrun.  Later--HUBBARD

[Smuuth]

$5495 = 120R Crate motor
 $400 = 58mm EFI throttle body
 $300 = Heavy breather A/C
 $140 = 5.3 g/s injectors
 $400 = Racing clutch
 $400 = 5 hours labor (dealer quote motor swap + clutch remove/replace)
 $160 = 2 hours dyno time (dealer quote)
 $545 = Sales tax
$7840 = Total

- $3000 ≈ Sales value used 110 CVO motor

$4840 ≈ Total Cost

[miker]

12 thou crank rounout allowed on this too???   

[grc]

$5495 = 120R Crate motor
 $400 = 58mm EFI throttle body
 $300 = Heavy breather A/C
 $140 = 5.3 g/s injectors
 $400 = Racing clutch
 $400 = 5 hours labor (dealer quote motor swap + clutch remove/replace)
 $160 = 2 hours dyno time (dealer quote)
 $545 = Sales tax
$7840 = Total

- $3000 ≈ Sales value used 110 CVO motor
$4840 ≈ Total Cost

That value for a used CVO110 needs to have a disclaimer / footnote applied.  $3000 when sold to a neophyte, $1000 when sold to someone with actual knowledge of the history of the CVO110. 


Jerry

[IMAbadman]

12 thou crank rounout allowed on this too???   

With the junk HD has been putting out for the last 5 years I'd bet that's probably not too far off.  Hell I live in Wisonsin and I'm actually ashamed to say the HD motor is built here.

[sadunbar]

Does anyone know what size intake ports are in the MVA heads that come on the motor?   

[SBB]

Does anyone know what size intake ports are in the MVA heads that come on the motor?   

Press fit crank?

 

SBB

[sadunbar]

Press fit crank?

 

SBB

Press fit crank...

[SBB]

Press fit crank...

RUT ROH, so is the 110.
Wonder if anyone sells one for 20% off?

 

SBB

[SBB]

Just my opinion guys.  Don’t get me wrong I like my Harley but you have to admit they really let the public down on their declining quality and workmanship.   When you put lipstick on a pig it’s still just a pig.

Now that's funny!

SBB

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

$5495 = 120R Crate motor
 $400 = 58mm EFI throttle body
 $300 = Heavy breather A/C
 $140 = 5.3 g/s injectors
 $400 = Racing clutch
 $400 = 5 hours labor (dealer quote motor swap + clutch remove/replace)
 $160 = 2 hours dyno time (dealer quote)
 $545 = Sales tax
$7840 = Total

- $3000 ≈ Sales value used 110 CVO motor

$4840 ≈ Total Cost

With that type of dollar figure, a 120", with a DEDICATED power cuve, for touring application can be built, that'll whip the livin' snot out of a 120R at 65 mph roll-ons, and get better fuel economy doing so.
Scott

[sadunbar]

Does anyone know what size intake ports are in the MVA heads that come on the motor?   

 

[investorbp]

$5495 = 120R Crate motor
 $400 = 58mm EFI throttle body
 $300 = Heavy breather A/C
 $140 = 5.3 g/s injectors
 $400 = Racing clutch
 $400 = 5 hours labor (dealer quote motor swap + clutch remove/replace)
 $160 = 2 hours dyno time (dealer quote)
 $545 = Sales tax
$7840 = Total

- $3000 ≈ Sales value used 110 CVO motor

$4840 ≈ Total Cost

The quote I received was as follows:

 $4,946.35 = 120R Crate motor (10% discount only)
 $ 319.96 = 58mm EFI throttle body (20% discount on all H-D parts)
 $ 239.96 = Heavy breather A/C
 $ 223.92 = 5.3 g/s injectors (for some reason they had quantity of 2 of these)
 $ 199.98 = Racing clutch
 $1,570.64 = Oil cooler, Super Tuner, D&D Fat Cat 2 into 1 exhaust, plus all other misc. gaskets, seal & oil
 $1,275.00 = 15-hrs. labor @ $85.00-hr
 $ 400.00 = labor @ $100.00-hr for dyno time
 $  525.07 = Sales Tax
 $ 9,700.88 = Total

I get 20% off on all H-D parts except the engine for some reason.  I don't currently have a 110" CVO engine but rather the 96" as my bike's a '10 Street Glide so I'm not really sure what that would be worth.  I'm thinking that I'm just going to do cams, heavy breather, Super Tuner & D&D Fat Cat for like $2,664 as they're claiming low 90s hp.  Seems like a very bold claim but I'm going to hold off & see what happens w/this new engine.

[131fun]

Seems like a nice motor. The only thing is that Harley rarely make expensive quality parts, so to thing that Harley makes a quality affordable motor is a little out of character. You get what you pay for folks..   I'd say the 120R may make a nice starting point to modify.

Meanwhile, a 131 crate will wax the 120R..  

[HD Street Performance]

It should be noted that the crank in them is a Jims and the runout on those is typically under .002 plus I am told (consider this rumor have not confirmed) that the crankpin is welded by Jims.

[sadunbar]

Does anyone know what size intake ports are in the MVA heads that come on the motor?  

 

[SBB]

Wish I could help you Scott but I have no info on that motor.
But in the interest of not wanting to seem totally useless, you can use me as a bad example.

 

SBB

[SBB]

It should be noted that the crank in them is a Jims and the runout on those is typically under .002 plus I am told (consider this rumor have not confirmed) that the crankpin is welded by Jims.

It should be noted that the crank in them is a Jims

Are you sure? Sure would like to see that in writing from Jim's or Harley.

plus I am told (consider this rumor have not confirmed) that the crankpin is welded by Jims.

I bet it's a rumor.  Sure would like to see that in writing from Jim's or Harley.


 

SBB

[sadunbar]

Wish I could help you Scott but I have no info on that motor.
But in the interest of not wanting to seem totally useless, you can use me as a bad example.

 

SBB

And I appreciate your usefullness as a bad example...   

[9 1/2 Beers]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Screamin-Eagle-Pro-SE120R-Dyna-FLH-Motor-19220-11-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem43a288f184QQitemZ290489692548QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


 

[Rooster]

It should be noted that the crank in them is a Jims and the runout on those is typically under .002 plus I am told (consider this rumor have not confirmed) that the crankpin is welded by Jims.

To get the crank welded by Jim's you ask for "Race Crank" about $350 extra. Had mine done when I ordered the motor. I saw the welds on it when I tore it down.

[sadunbar]

To get the crank welded by Jim's you ask for "Race Crank" about $350 extra. Had mine done when I ordered the motor. I saw the welds on it when I tore it down.

Of course, you are referring to the crank in your "JIMS 120" motor, not the Screamin' Eagle® Pro SE120R Dyna®/FLH Motor, p/n 19220-11. 

I've been told by both JIMS and by the MOCO that the crank in the SE Pro SE120R motor is not manufactured by JIMS and is not welded.

[Rooster]

I was talking about my Jim's 131 sorry reread previous post. He was talking about Jim's welding the crank on the 120R and I don't know about that.

[SBB]

I've been told by both JIMS and by the MOCO that the crank in the SE Pro SE120R motor is not manufactured by JIMS and is not welded.

So why does Dewey say that the crank in the 120R is a Jim's and it's welded?

            

SBB

[sadunbar]

I was talking about my Jim's 131 sorry reread previous post. He was talking about Jim's welding the crank on the 120R and I don't know about that.

 

[sadunbar]

So why does Dewey say that the crank in the 120R is a Jim's and it's welded?

            

SBB

 


I've not laid eyes on the crank....but like I said, both JIMS and the MOCO (not a dealer) have told me the crank is not manufactured JIMS and is not welded...   

[fatboi1959]

So until you know for sure...RUN FOREST RUN!

[miker]

I wouldn't buy one even with Chip's money! 

[HD Street Performance]

My information was rumor only. So until we have a confirmation who knows.
From the beginning this motor, my gut feeling, has been it is a bit like the rest of the performance gear offered by HD. There is the good and the not so good. In other words just like a lot of the stuff, HD=Half Done.
So consider taking the crank to Hoban and checking the tolerances on everything before loading it into the bagger.

[erniezap]

For me, looking at the torque curve on this motor, I wouldn't want it on a bagger as the torque doesn't really kick in until 3500-4000 RPM.  I'll stick with building a motor before buying something like this one.  Timken bearing, welded and balanced crank, gobs of torque starting at 2200-2500 RPM, etc.

[9 1/2 Beers]

Ernie

 Would you build a 103 or 110 or something else ?

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

For me, looking at the torque curve on this motor, I wouldn't want it on a bagger as the torque doesn't really kick in until 3500-4000 RPM.  I'll stick with building a motor before buying something like this one.  Timken bearing, welded and balanced crank, gobs of torque starting at 2200-2500 RPM, etc.

 
See post # 8.
Scott

[grc]

The information I read somewhere was that they used an "increased press fit" on the 4-5/8" stroker crank, no welding.  So you buy a crate engine assembly, and the first thing you need to do is tear it down and do the crank properly.  Hmmmmm.  Somehow that makes about as much sense as all the other stupid stuff H-D does.  I would certainly hope that if someone wanted to sell a true racing engine, versus just a bigger engine that doesn't meet emissions regs so let's call it "race only" to skirt the law, that they would build it with true racing quality components.  I wonder how many professional racers run a press fit crankshaft?


Jerry

[erniezap]

Ernie

 Would you build a 103 or 110 or something else ?

Would probably take a 103" and make it a 117" with Axtel cylinders and use the same cams, head work, throttle body, etc, as my 124". Love having 125 ft. lbs. torque at 2500 RPM!

[jagonza1]

outside California alot of dealer will install them and the ones that don't just take it to an aftermarked shop they will love to install it for you.

[jagonza1]

By the way.  I don't think most of us are running anywhere near epa legal. so I wouldn't wory to musch about that. and for the guys in california. please vote Arny out of office already. he had a real chance of ruining motorcycling for the entire nation.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Would probably take a 103" and make it a 117" with Axtel cylinders and use the same cams, head work, throttle body, etc, as my 124". Love having 125 ft. lbs. torque at 2500 RPM!

127 ft/lbs was just shown on Fuel-Moto's dyno, all in by 3400,(120 well under 3000) in a 107"/Wood 555 cams, our little 1.900" valve heads.
Scott

[TIF2]

For those getting quotes on the 120R are you dropping them in a CVO? Looking at the P&A it states the SE Race Clutch is no-go for hydraulic actuator - does your quote include conversion to cable?  Just wondering how they are going to make that work?

Anybody know anything or have experience with Barnett Scorpion clutches?

[faceracer]

I ran the Barnett Scorpion clutch in my 01FXDL. I also had put the HD hyd. clutch on it. I ran the heavy "GREEN" springs that are for drag racing. Even with the Hyd assist it was a hand full! I ran it with the cable clutch for awhile and it was awful in traffic! I tried every spring config until I was sure that it was not slipping and that lead me to use all the "Green" heavy springs. I have a friend who bought one for his 01 FL and never installed it. He sold the bike and I am guessing that clutch is still sitting new in the box. If your interested I will email him and see if he want to sell it. You might get a good deal! I think it was around $500 new. Let me know?  Face

[faceracer]

I ran the Barnett Scorpion clutch in my 01FXDL. I also had put the HD hyd. clutch on it. I ran the heavy "GREEN" springs that are for drag racing. Even with the Hyd assist it was a hand full! I ran it with the cable clutch for awhile and it was awful in traffic! I tried every spring config until I was sure that it was not slipping and that lead me to use all the "Green" heavy springs. I have a friend who bought one for his 01 FL and never installed it. He sold the bike and I am guessing that clutch is still sitting new in the box. If your interested I will email him and see if he want to sell it. You might get a good deal! I think it was around $500 new. Let me know?  Face

p.s. there is a special plate to lock the clutch when your torque the mainshaft nut. I have one and I am willing to loan it out to a cvo member.

[Flat Dawg]

I am running a 120R in an 08 FLHTCU, and thanks to Doc, the torque is at 110 ft lbs at 2.5k, maxes out at 131.84 around 4k RPM. Riding in everyday grocery getting conditions, the motor is very smooth and streetable, albeit a bit noisy on the top end due to the ramps and high lift. When I jump on it, no one in the pack can keep up, but I know there is always someone faster.

Total cost for the motor swap project was around $6500 plus a few miscellaneous hiccups here and there, and a good tune of course.

As others have said, there is a lot more power to be had from this motor with some head porting and a cam change-I'm just not rich enough to go any farther and am quite happy with the motor's performance. It already toasted a pro clutch.

[HD Street Performance]

That 266 has high lift but not a lot of relative overlap (wide LSA). This adds manors. By virtue of decent compression that motor actually does quite well in the torque department. For a lot of riders 100 torque at 1700 is a PITA IME. A little smoother coming on then lighting up like rocket is desireable. That is what this motor does.

As far as headwork I would:
REPLACE THE GUIDES
Correct the geometry
Lightly work the ports and flow balancing
Mill lightly and equalize the CCs

Add Baisley Corrected Geometry Rockers and Woods Directional Lifters, Smiths Pushrods

Done deal.
Cross your fingers on the bottom end and get a good clutch

[Unbalanced]

I am running a 120R in an 08 FLHTCU, and thanks to Doc, the torque is at 110 ft lbs at 2.5k, maxes out at 131.84 around 4k RPM. Riding in everyday grocery getting conditions, the motor is very smooth and streetable, albeit a bit noisy on the top end due to the ramps and high lift. When I jump on it, no one in the pack can keep up, but I know there is always someone faster.

Total cost for the motor swap project was around $6500 plus a few miscellaneous hiccups here and there, and a good tune of course.

As others have said, there is a lot more power to be had from this motor with some head porting and a cam change-I'm just not rich enough to go any farther and am quite happy with the motor's performance. It already toasted a pro clutch.

Flatdawg,

Which clutch did you put in after toasting the first clutch?   Pro Clutch didnt hold up well for me either

[Herko]

The Bandit Sportsman will hold the power from start to finish.
They make one to accommodate the hydraulic releases as well.
The VPC set ups will allow some slip in the lower RPM's on the bigger motors.

[Flat Dawg]

Unbalanced, Rivera gave me a replacement under warranty with thicker steels. They call it the abuser clutch. Not sure yet, but I may still have to shim the 4 fasteners on the pressure plate to flatten out the gold spring a bit-it slips just a bit at high RPM still, and I am also swapping out the cams for some deliciously torquey bob wood units.

[Unbalanced]

Flatdog,

With those Juicy cams as you put them comes a lot of valve train noise and beating on the valves/seats/springs.   
Have you tried the Rivera lock out piece its like the AIM VP92T but made to work with Rivera's stuff you cant use the AIM so they say.

[strokerjlk]

Flatdog,

With those Juicy cams as you put them comes a lot of valve train noise and beating on the valves/seats/springs.   
Have you tried the Rivera lock out piece its like the AIM VP92T but made to work with Rivera's stuff you cant use the AIM so they say.

actually Aim makes a VPC for the Rivera pro clutch.
here is one I put on a 120R build.

[erniezap]

actually Aim makes a VPC for the Rivera pro clutch.
here is one I put on a 120R build.

Does that fit under the stock primary and derby cover?

[Unbalanced]

Ernie,

On my S&S motor my derby cover didnt fit without a little grinding on the bottom edge of the derby cover.   Took 10 seconds to clearance on a stone wheel grinder.

[erniezap]

Thanks!

[strokerjlk]

this one has a 1/2 inch spacer on the derby cover. but 1/4 will do it.

[cvobiker]

this one has a 1/2 inch spacer on the derby cover. but 1/4 will do it.

Will the spacers work with the Scorpion Clutch