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Author Topic: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades  (Read 5050 times)

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SBB

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 01:00:46 PM »

Your heads re-worked. To what level or compression?
Wood 555 cams  In your opinion, how does the TW7H rank with the 555's?
1.725 S/E rocker arms(optional)  Why?
58 S/E re-worked  I'm there!
Ness Big Sucker II OK
D&D Fatcat.  I'm there!
Tune/ride/smile. :)
Scott

So no piston change, keep stock pistons?
So in your opinion, the comparison from the TW7H to the 555's in a stock piston, stock head bike which cam would you choose?

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

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2010SSRS

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2011, 04:57:12 PM »

I'm thinking about spending some "MAD" money on the S.G. this winter.
I wanted to get some opinions on how well this combo will work and what kind of H.P. and Tq. I might expect.


:CNC ported heads
:10.5:1 pistons
S.E. 263E cams
S.E. 58mm T.B.
S.E. High flow injectors
S.E. heavy breather
S.E. race tuner
V&H Power duals w/ V&H high output slip-ons


for what it's worth, i went with the high compression pistons, T-Man 590 chain driven cams, race tuner, reworked the SE 110 heads to match T-Man Stage 3 heads, went with V&H Dresser Duals and the High Outputs.  the True Duals vs Power Duals won't change the HP just aesthetics but the High Outputs are the wildcard and in my Dyno run, the killer. 

first let me say the looks and SOUND of the High Outputs are worth the performance loss in my opinion.  but my best Dyno run was 106hp/120tq with this setup.  a buddy had a Rinehart 2 into 1 that he wasn't using so we slapped it on because my tech told me the High Outputs were killing my power, and we got 110hp/119tq after re-mapping and two power runs.

the torque is more than i was shooting for but the power was less than i had hoped for.  but after several touring runs throughout southern Wisconsin, i gotta say i rely on the torque a heck of a lot more than i need the extra power.  this thing pulls outta the turns like no bike i've ever had!  well worth the $3200 my dealer charged me for the parts and labor with tuning.  and i did go back to the High Outputs because the tone is just too friggin' deep and sweet!

just remember that Dyno numbers are all typically different, and in most cases irrelevant.  as for the guy who posted "Just a Woods 7H Cams, Heavy Breather, Rinehart Slip-ons and SEPT gave me 108.15hp/120.19 and reliable." - i call BS!  there is NO WAY that Dyno result is real.  for the record, a heavy breather is useless if ya don't increase the injector and remove the cat that would suppress the outgoing air.  you can breath in all ya want and as much as ya want but if ya can't blow it out efficiently you're defeating the purpose.  so he's expecting everyone to believe that a cam swap, set of slip-ons and a tune thru a catted headpipe with a fancy looking air cleaner is putting out 108.15hp/120.19tq?  no friggin' way and he should be ashamed to be posting misinformation like that. somebody may actually take his setup and then be REALLY pissed when the actual numbers don't come out anywhere near that! 

many Dyno results posted are "inflated" or "speculative" and there's no quick add on (other than a SuperCharger) to give ya huge performance boosts.  the sad fact is that it costs more money to make these CVO's run the way they should right from MoCo.  but whatcha gonna do?

anyway, someone had posted two ideas for ya and the 1st was to find a GOOD technician.....probably the best advice you've gotten.....good luck!
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TR590 Cams - Hi Comp Pistons - Stage 3 Heads - V&H Dresser Duals - V&H Hi Outputs - Tuner - Custom Map - 104hp/121tq

timo482

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2011, 06:39:54 PM »

09 96" head pipes didnt have a cat in them - they are a very desirable factory header. ive been looking for one off ebay for awhile they go for over 200 bux.

so the guy is running a catless header on his 110 - read carefully its a 96" bike with a 110 kit.

he might not be lying - its a widely known fact that factory non cat head pipes on dressers will often be the high torque option. it has to do with the total pipe volume being so high. the ideal is 10 times the swept volume & the factory head pipe and muffler can make that volume, none of the softails or dynas make 10 times volume.

so a really well done tune, big air cleaner and large mufflers with outlets the same dia as the exh valve, a 09 header, and a torque cam like a 555 or 255 or similar "should" put out really big numbers.

to
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Phaq2

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2011, 09:06:00 AM »


for what it's worth, i went with the high compression pistons, T-Man 590 chain driven cams, race tuner, reworked the SE 110 heads to match T-Man Stage 3 heads, went with V&H Dresser Duals and the High Outputs.  the True Duals vs Power Duals won't change the HP just aesthetics but the High Outputs are the wildcard and in my Dyno run, the killer.  

first let me say the looks and SOUND of the High Outputs are worth the performance loss in my opinion.  but my best Dyno run was 106hp/120tq with this setup.  a buddy had a Rinehart 2 into 1 that he wasn't using so we slapped it on because my tech told me the High Outputs were killing my power, and we got 110hp/119tq after re-mapping and two power runs.

the torque is more than i was shooting for but the power was less than i had hoped for.  but after several touring runs throughout southern Wisconsin, i gotta say i rely on the torque a heck of a lot more than i need the extra power.  this thing pulls outta the turns like no bike i've ever had!  well worth the $3200 my dealer charged me for the parts and labor with tuning.  and i did go back to the High Outputs because the tone is just too friggin' deep and sweet!

just remember that Dyno numbers are all typically different, and in most cases irrelevant.  as for the guy who posted "Just a Woods 7H Cams, Heavy Breather, Rinehart Slip-ons and SEPT gave me 108.15hp/120.19 and reliable." - i call BS!  there is NO WAY that Dyno result is real.  for the record, a heavy breather is useless if ya don't increase the injector and remove the cat that would suppress the outgoing air.  you can breath in all ya want and as much as ya want but if ya can't blow it out efficiently you're defeating the purpose.  so he's expecting everyone to believe that a cam swap, set of slip-ons and a tune thru a catted headpipe with a fancy looking air cleaner is putting out 108.15hp/120.19tq?  no friggin' way and he should be ashamed to be posting misinformation like that. somebody may actually take his setup and then be REALLY pissed when the actual numbers don't come out anywhere near that!  

many Dyno results posted are "inflated" or "speculative" and there's no quick add on (other than a SuperCharger) to give ya huge performance boosts.  the sad fact is that it costs more money to make these CVO's run the way they should right from MoCo.  but whatcha gonna do?

anyway, someone had posted two ideas for ya and the 1st was to find a GOOD technician.....probably the best advice you've gotten.....good luck!
So I'm a liar? Or are you jealous? Phaq2
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:07:57 AM by Phaq2 »
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2010SSRS

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2011, 09:57:11 AM »

So I'm a liar? Or are you jealous? Phaq2

does "falsifier of facts" sound better?  lol.

again, there is NO way unless you've got other mods that you've left out.  i've been around this stuff my whole life, and your senario isn't adding up.......sorry.  if those are the actual numbers you have much more done than what you're stating.  8)
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TR590 Cams - Hi Comp Pistons - Stage 3 Heads - V&H Dresser Duals - V&H Hi Outputs - Tuner - Custom Map - 104hp/121tq

Phaq2

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2011, 10:25:41 AM »

does "falsifier of facts" sound better?  lol.

again, there is NO way unless you've got other mods that you've left out.  i've been around this stuff my whole life, and your senario isn't adding up.......sorry.  if those are the actual numbers you have much more done than what you're stating.  8)

I don't read these forums to cause trouble or miss lead anyone sir. I posted my mods to try and help the OP. I was asked for a graph. I posted the graph with mods included. I'm sorry if you don't agree. Call Brian or Danny @ Zepka HD 1-814-262-7777 and talk to them. If they did more than I stated, thank them for me would ya. Phaq2
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2010SSRS

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 11:08:11 AM »

I don't read these forums to cause trouble or miss lead anyone sir. I posted my mods to try and help the OP. I was asked for a graph. I posted the graph with mods included. I'm sorry if you don't agree. Call Brian or Danny @ Zepka HD 1-814-262-7777 and talk to them. If they did more than I stated, thank them for me would ya. Phaq2

post 15 remarks wondering if your Dyno results include "STD correction"........i guess this must be the answer if you truly are going off the actual results given to you. 

i didn't mean to attack you personally about it as much as i wanted to convey to the original poster that he needs to be weary of big Dyno numbers being posted with such little upgrades.  sometimes i assume folks are out to push business to their local speed shops.  i had a 2010 Camaro and did some mods to it.  the tune shop boasted that they got me 475rwhp and all i did was headers and a cold air intake.  after disagreeing for 1/2 with them that if they truly accomplished that, i would never be able to drive the damn thing down the street, they then told me they "corrected" the results based on the weather conditions.  real numbers were 412rwhp which is a 37rwhp net gain and much more realistic.

but again, at the end of the day it's all about the ass Dyno!  Dyno results are all relative to so many variances
like weather, elevation, type of Dyno, tuner and "correction" to name a few.  i thought i'd be closer to 115hp on my CVO but wanted to stay under a 600 lift cam for engine longevity and i absolutely hate a 2 into 1 exhaust on a bagger.  with larger cams, the 58MM TB and larger Injectors and the 2 into 1 with a remap, i could achieve the 115hp i was hoping for....but i'd give up on some of the torque that i have come to love and beat my valvetrain to hell with the 600+ lift.

i couldn't be happier with the way my CVO turned out and the 106hp/120tq that my Dyno runs produced aren't corrected and were done on a 90 degree day with the heat index at 100+ due to to the humidity.
 
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Spiderman

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 11:47:09 AM »

Gents,
        Before we get off on a pissing contest as to dyno charts, lets review what we've all agreed in many many other threads on this site (as well as 100 others)  Dyno numbers are a reflection of a wide variety of factors and are only a graph of the performance of a particular motorcycle at that moment in time. Timing advance and other non mechanical differences can cause widely divergent dyno numbers with the same engine. And then there's issues like compression numbers. You can deck your cylinder heads and increase your compression using stock OEM pistons. You can port and polish as set of stock heads and still call them stock. You might indeed have bought a used motorcycle with changes done such as this that you know nothing about. The list is endless and for one of us to call BULLchit on another based on a single small post is unfair while understandable. Niether of you (the one being called out nor the one doing the calling) should get too worked up about this. It's called bench racing gentleman or in the case of football "monday morning quarterbacking". I've long stated how much I hate any thread that gets into dyno charts. They are the fools gold of our industry. At best, in the hands of competant technician, a dyno should be used for nothing more than tuning an engine. Also, and you long time members habe heard me harp on this theme before. I NEVER see anyone post the elapsed time numbers with their dyno charts. For those of you who aren't aware of this; it is the time it takes for a particular engine to develop the peak TQ and HP. If an engine pumps out 140hp but takes 6 seconds to get to that point, it will lose badly on the street or strip to an engine with quite a bit less hp but producing peak numbers in 3.5 seconds or less. How quickly does the engine get up to speed and produce maximum tq. How high in the RPM range does it go before getting to peak numbers or how low in the RPM range before the "power" comes on. And so on and so on and so on.
There are a few people on this website who have most likely forgotten more about building engines than I'll ever know. I've always had a professional engine builder build my engines. But, that doesn't mean that I haven't had eyes and ears open in the forty years I've been doing this and paid attention to what's real and what isn't. Dyno numbers I'm sorry to say are not real. They are as I stated in my opening, nothing more than a snapshot of a very specific combination of factors at one moment in time. For us to argue with one another over them or worse still, get personal and rude is wrong. We all like to toss about the words "brother" and "sister". Think about what we mean when we use those words before you jump all over somebody or also feel like you've been challenged- - - - especially when it comes to something as vague as a dyno chart.

B B
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 11:49:23 AM by Spiderman »
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Black Diamond

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2011, 11:51:39 AM »

B B  :2vrolijk_21:

Well said.

JW
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PierceEye

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 01:23:41 PM »

So here is a standard you can see.....2010 Conv w/ V&H Large Radius 2-2 turn outs, SE Heavy Intake (even got the little SE logo LOL)
I like the power band on it as I have a tendency to run in the mid to mid high rpms most of the time and when i crack her open I to feel it....
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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2011, 01:36:30 PM »

Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet


B B
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PierceEye

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2011, 01:43:27 PM »

Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet
Please post the ET sheet


B B

Do not have it.....All I give a chit about is I Like it....sorry for twisting your goat today....I do understand ET when it comes to how fast it takes t get to the power band.....would I say it is on the quick side or slow I would say it is on the faster side on the throttle up.....this might be me but it seems to not come down to idle as fast as a non-counterbalance motor...but then again....it really does not mater becuase I like it :)
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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2011, 04:01:55 PM »

Do not have it.....sorry for twisting your goat today

PierceEye.
               That's too bad because it's the best real indicator of how your bike runs on the street. You may have heard of guys running lightweight flywheels. The reason behind that is relative to ET. Not only do they allow the bike to rev up quicker, but they also increase your real life redline. Nots something I'd recommend for a heavy street bike - - especially an FD but if your need for speed is strong and you've got the bucks, you can sure build yourself a quick bar blaster this way.

As to the other, I guess it must be an expression from a part of the country I've never visited because it's a 1st for me. If I'm guess correctly however, you needn't worry, I am not at all twisted. I jumped on the thread to offer what meager advice I might have to offer and broker the peace.

As d00d likes to say " it's all good"


B B
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JC

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Re: Opinions needed on 2010 SESG motor upgrades
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2011, 04:14:11 PM »

I really appreciate all the info. Personally I like my power to come on faster. The 07 cuse 2 I traded in held over 100 lb ft of TQ from about 2300 rpm all the way to 5000.  That would be most of my rpm range that I normally ride in.
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