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[Mr_Ed]

"The Key to using Tru-Duals is using muffs with VERTICAL Baffles. in other words something you can't stick a broom stick up..No reversion= Torque where you need it.>>> Nice crisp throttle response>>"

I know true duals are not the choice for performance, and 2 into 1 is the way to go....BUT.....I had them on my SERK with CFR's and loved the sound and look.  Going to upgrade my SG now and exhaust is changing as well.  While searching and reading I ran into this statement and it made me wonder, so I thought I'd ask, is that true to some degree ?

[hd-dude]

I would say partially true. Proper backpressure is important and helps with low end torque.

[cvobiker]

I know true duals are not the choice for performance, and 2 into 1 is the way to go....BUT.....I had them on my SERK with CFR's and loved the sound and look.  Going to upgrade my SG now and exhaust is changing as well.  While searching and reading I ran into this statement and it made me wonder, so I thought I'd ask, is that true to some degree ?

2 into 1's are suppose to offer the best performance but i think (i might be wrong)  :nixweiss:this only applies to the tunable 2 into 1 systems. I have a Supper Trap 2:1 on my 2008 and remember the tuner bumping up the numbers messing with the tuning discs..

[Mr_Ed]

Thanks Jim....after another ton of reading I've arrived at the same truths you guys have already figured out....funny how that works huh

On the left you have true duals....wide open slip-ons....looking good and sounding bad *ss....at the cost of performance

On the right you have 2 into 1 set-ups....great performance....better tunes and numbers achieved....at the cost of looks and sound

....and in the spirit of compromise....a hundred and one products sitting somewhere in the middle designed to give some of both without sacrificing to much of either.  Decisions decisions

[dayne66]

Glad that got cleared up!

[Mr_Ed]

Well I'll tell you one thing....and I certainly don't want to open up a can of worms or start a big *ss debate here....BUT....since I've traded my SERK in on the SG and have been running a stock exhaust, I've had more near misses in the last few months than I've had in all three years on the road king.  The SERK was my first bike with a really loud exhaust system on it and I don't care what anybody says....loud gets heard and people look.  I'm not condoning ripping thru residential areas at 5 in the morning...or breaking the sound barrier on a peaceful Saturday afternoon....but there's a simple reason why police cars, ambulances and fire trucks have sirens.

I loved the true dual setup on the SERK with CFR's, a very deep and noticeable sound even at low rpm that really wasn't that obnoxious unless you wanted it to be, but people knew somebody was somewhere.  Of course I would like to have the same or similar setup and not take the performance hit, that's why I started searching and reading about other ones when I ran into the statement I quoted.

What's been "cleared up" is....there ARE options....just none without compromise 

[1sharprdkg]

Thanks Jim....after another ton of reading I've arrived at the same truths you guys have already figured out....funny how that works huh

On the left you have true duals....wide open slip-ons....looking good and sounding bad *ss....at the cost of performance

On the right you have 2 into 1 set-ups....great performance....better tunes and numbers achieved....at the cost of looks and sound

....and in the spirit of compromise....a hundred and one products sitting somewhere in the middle designed to give some of both without sacrificing to much of either.  Decisions decisions

Yep looks or performance that is the question?

[Mr_Ed]

Well not really the question 1sharprdkg...more like the conclusion of all I read.  I guess I just never put two and two together as far as baffle design in slip ons and there affect on backpressure....and in turn it's affect on performance.  I understand on a stock bike everything is choked up to the max because of EPA, but I kind of thought once the cat was removed or head pipes replaced most of the back pressure was removed.

[jcd520]

Well I'll tell you one thing....and I certainly don't want to open up a can of worms or start a big *ss debate here....BUT....since I've traded my SERK in on the SG and have been running a stock exhaust, I've had more near misses in the last few months than I've had in all three years on the road king.  The SERK was my first bike with a really loud exhaust system on it and I don't care what anybody says....loud gets heard and people look.  I'm not condoning ripping thru residential areas at 5 in the morning...or breaking the sound barrier on a peaceful Saturday afternoon....but there's a simple reason why police cars, ambulances and fire trucks have sirens.

I loved the true dual setup on the SERK with CFR's, a very deep and noticeable sound even at low rpm that really wasn't that obnoxious unless you wanted it to be, but people knew somebody was somewhere.  Of course I would like to have the same or similar setup and not take the performance hit, that's why I started searching and reading about other ones when I ran into the statement I quoted.

What's been "cleared up" is....there ARE options....just none without compromise 

Boy , you got that right. When I was loud I think it  just scared the crap out of people and they got out of the way---now that I am quiet they sometimes just don't know you are there . I have a dual note horn as well and when I use it I sometimes think they are looking for a car , not a bike when they start trying to figure out where the horn is coming from. Bottom line I think people just in general just don't care for bikes or they are too busy texting or whatever. Ride like you are invisible never had more meaning than nowadays.

[slacker2]

    I've read that you really shouldn't mismatch exhaust. I have a new CVO Street Glide coming in shortly and going down the long winding exhaust decision road. Has anyone used the Fullsac 2-1 front pipe with falsee, and Thunder Header slip ons?
  Torn between the full sound of duals, Fullsac is showing some really good numbers going with their complete system. It just doesn't have that V8 sound to it like the TH's. I'l be glad "I hope" when I make a decision.
   

[SERK3]

LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES..........I WILL NEVER RUN QUIET PIPES...........

[TIF2]

    I've read that you really shouldn't mismatch exhaust. I have a new CVO Street Glide coming in shortly and going down the long winding exhaust decision road. Has anyone used the Fullsac 2-1 front pipe with falsee, and Thunder Header slip ons?
  Torn between the full sound of duals, Fullsac is showing some really good numbers going with their complete system. It just doesn't have that V8 sound to it like the TH's. I'l be glad "I hope" when I make a decision.

Unless you know something I don't, Fullsac doesn't make a 2-1 system. They make a 2-1-2 system, and that is a critical distinction. In a 2-1-2 setup you cannot use a "ghost pipe" - you must run two mufflers as you still have two pipes on exit from the common "1" scavenge area. On the Fullsac X-Pipe, it uses the stock cross-over pipe to provide for the left side muffler. There is no "falsee" involved.

I've never heard a V-Twin sound like a V8 - regardless of the exhaust system installed 
Just sayin' ....

[slacker2]

 Thanks for setting me straight. I have looked at some many systems on line that they are starting to run together. As far as the V8 sound, my last bike was a 08 1600 Vulcan.Had it mapped, dyno and put a set of Cobra longs on it. loud but not too. Sounded just like a big block chevy with headers and duals.

 So many time I have seen guys that are setting alongside the road walk to the edge of the road to see just what the heck was coming.

Oh well that was in another life, really looking forward to CVO coming in.  The Harley group is a great place to belong.

[Chains]

LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES..........I WILL NEVER RUN QUIET PIPES...........

[TIF2]

^^

 

x2

[jcd520]

Unless you know something I don't, Fullsac doesn't make a 2-1 system. They make a 2-1-2 system, and that is a critical distinction. In a 2-1-2 setup you cannot use a "ghost pipe" - you must run two mufflers as you still have two pipes on exit from the common "1" scavenge area. On the Fullsac X-Pipe, it uses the stock cross-over pipe to provide for the left side muffler. There is no "falsee" involved.

I've never heard a V-Twin sound like a V8 - regardless of the exhaust system installed 
Just sayin' ....

If you have ever heard a thunder header on a bagger then you know what he is talking about . It does sound llike a big block chevy with open headers.


And to the guy who said loud pipes save lives----------I respectfully disagree-------They just piss people off and give all the rest of us a bad name and rep. Safe riding habits and responsible riding  saves lives . The fact is we are all involved in a dangerous lifestyle . As long as there are cars and we are going to have a problem and it is up to us and us only to take care of ourselves. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and that is just the way it is. Being obnoxiously loud is not the answer and is detrimental to our lifestyle  and the future of motorcycling as a whole. Unfortunately those of us who ride have to live down some pretty bad press from a long time ago and it probably won't ever go away. Continuing to blast away with loud pipes is not the answer. People in cars don't see other quiet cars either so quiet bikes are no different. -.You can get people to see you and respect your space if you ride like a responsible person and not like a rebel without a  cause or care for anyone but yourself.-------Again I respect your opinion so please respect mine . I am not trying to piss anyone off or start an argument here , just stating what I believe to be fact.

[Spiderman]

Loud Pipes Save Lives ?  I don't know whether they do or they don't. What I do know is that the FIRST thing anybody in a cage says to a cop at the scene of a car trashes motorcycle accident is  " Officer, I didn't even see that motorcycle "  I've had some bikes that were obnoxiously loud and I agree that is an issue for all of us. But I've also had some bikes (as I do now) that were louder than stock without being boorish about it and I've seen the effect on drivers around me. I come up on them, they are checking their mirrors, looking to the right or left to find me. I can't see how that's a bad thing. We ride around on an open vehicle with no protection against going down on the pavement, into the side of another car or getting run over whatsoever. We take courses and ride defensively (which means assuming everyone  else on the road is an idiot) and still we get run down, run over, run into the ditch and on and on. I'd say that whatever you can do to increase your chances of survival are a matter of personal choice. I know people who carry concealed hanguns without permits in spite of the fact that doing so is one hell of a lot more illegal than riding a motorcycle with loud exhaust. Those people chose to decided for themselves whether their personal safety is worth a potential weapons conviction. There are other examples. When all is said and done, we obey the law or we disobey the law based on our personal perception of what that particular law's effect may be on our own personal well being. While I sometimes get irritated with the immature guy on a bike who raps his pipes in all the wrong places, I'm not going to condemn everyone who runs louder than stock exhaust systems. This isn't a one size fits all issue in spite of some people thinking it is.

B B

    PS
         I have gotten good performance with my current 103 (2007) running stock headpipes with perforamance mufflers. The old style cross over pipe providing just the right amount of back pressure needed t

[slacker2]

 The gentleman has a point. Growing up on a farm in Vt. My first car was a 1969 Chevy Camaro Z28... borning 500hps. At just 16 years old. I guess the rumble of headers and dual exhaust is in my blood. I deep sound of horse power is like no other.
  That being said, Has anybody installed Fullsac B X-pipe with the Fullsac mufflers ? I want to go with the StageII. three different baffles offered. Has anyone heard the 2.25 ( I Think) ?
 I'm looking at the dyno sheet and 107 hp with Tq 120. Like the numbers but would like to know if it produces a deep rumble.
I,m looking to be some where between the loud and the quite.

[Mr_Ed]

And to the guy who said loud pipes save lives----------I respectfully disagree-------They just piss people off and give all the rest of us a bad name and rep. Safe riding habits and responsible riding  saves lives . The fact is we are all involved in a dangerous lifestyle . As long as there are cars and we are going to have a problem and it is up to us and us only to take care of ourselves. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and that is just the way it is. Being obnoxiously loud is not the answer and is detrimental to our lifestyle  and the future of motorcycling as a whole. Unfortunately those of us who ride have to live down some pretty bad press from a long time ago and it probably won't ever go away. Continuing to blast away with loud pipes is not the answer. People in cars don't see other quiet cars either so quiet bikes are no different. -.You can get people to see you and respect your space if you ride like a responsible person and not like a rebel without a  cause or care for anyone but yourself.-------Again I respect your opinion so please respect mine . I am not trying to piss anyone off or start an argument here , just stating what I believe to be fact.

All I know is my own personal experience.  That experience has been gained from riding 360 days out of the year rain or shine, and from commuting back and forth in traffic every day for a number of years now, no weekend warrior here.  As stated earlier, I've had so many more close calls and near misses since I've been riding a bike with stock pipes that to say or even think that it might be pure "coincidence" would be irresponsible to the truth.  I don't live in a bubble, I'm a grown 50 year old man, I'm not a kid sowing his oats or feeling rebellious either, but when the obvious presents itself, eventually you have to accept it for what it is wether you like it or not.  Certain vehicles have sirens for a reason, think about it.  As I've said, I've had more near misses in the last three months than I've had in over three years on my previous bike.  Of course safe riding habits and riding responsibly goes a very long way in keeping safe, BUT, there are other elements as well that "help", and being heard is one of them, from my experience  

[TIF2]

^^
Excellent post.

[SERK3]

All I know is my own personal experience.  That experience has been gained from riding 360 days out of the year rain or shine, and from commuting back and forth in traffic every day for a number of years now, no weekend warrior here.  As stated earlier, I've had so many more close calls and near misses since I've been riding a bike with stock pipes that to say or even think that it might be pure "coincidence" would be irresponsible to the truth.  I don't live in a bubble, I'm a grown 50 year old man, I'm not a kid sowing his oats or feeling rebellious either, but when the obvious presents itself, eventually you have to accept it for what it is wether you like it or not.  Certain vehicles have sirens for a reason, think about it.  As I've said, I've had more near misses in the last three months than I've had in over three years on my previous bike.  Of course safe riding habits and riding responsibly goes a very long way in keeping safe, BUT, there are other elements as well that "help", and being heard is one of them, from my experience  

 

[cvobiker]

Loud pipes save lifes.    yes they do..... Test drive a BMW motorcycle of your choice on any busy freeway, and count the number of times a cage comes into your lane... YIKES   
Now do same with your Harley, seldom happens.... Was going to say never, but accounting for the idiots here..

[slacker2]

 Nicely put !!! Middle of the road is were I went with my pipes. Loud is cool for the first hundred 100 miles.
Pain the last 100.

[icufltrn]

I have just installed the xpipe b with the 1.75 baffles and the tts download privided by Steve George from fullsac.  I have only gotten to go for a short ride with the cold 30 degree days.  There is more of a rumble but not loud, can't say if the bike runs cooler which was my main concern (see above 30 degree days).  Does seem more responsive though.  Seat of the pants dyno says the #s are better but haven't and don't plan on having it dyno'd.

[slacker2]

I went with the "B" pipe as well. Funny Fullsac told me to go with the 2'' cores to improve performance. They told me that it would provide a better low end. Also went with the Master tuner and StageII / Andrew 54 cams. I just changed the stock AC filter to K&N.

[nidan]

I put on V&H dual headers, while my tech was able to maintain the same torque curve there was a drop in power of about 10% .  Sound .. much better , and they seem to run cooler.

If I had it to do over I'd go with a 2 into 1 , which I had on my FXDWG3 .

[slacker2]

I think that I'm going to stick with the Fullsac Stage II set up. One thing that I have learned. My dealer said that they could cut the stock push rods in half and install hydraulic ones to install the cams. That it would save labor charges.
 Steve at Fullsac advised paying the extra labor to pull tank and put back factory solid push rods. He told me hydraulic push rods are too soft and he doesn't even sell them.